I like Newt as the Republican candidate

[Valerie]

meh, you're easily dealt with single handedly.

Just wait 'til Toro finds out how you've been jerking him around...

 

[manifold]

I think we've meandered off topic Val.

Could you tell me again what you love about Mittens?

 

[Iggy]

Looks like it will be Mitten but oh, how sad that will be. A very entertaining Republican eat Republican season will grind to a halt as boring Mitten becomes the presidential candidate.

The OP is a troll thread from the beginning so complaining about others trolling a troll thread is a bit disingenuous it would seem.

[/IMG]

 

[JoeB131]

Since she took the time to actually think about answers rather than the typical, "You just hate his religion" bunk.

No doubt President Obama could very well win a second term, and IF he were to beat Romney by "Goldwater like proportions", then so too would he have defeated any of the other Republican candidates...So don't try to play I told you so as if an Obama win makes you so damn brilliant in your Romney analysis.

No, he'll beat Romney by a larger margin because Romney plays right into the campaign he wants to run. Republicans only care about the rich, and here's a rich asshole who screwed working people. Seriously, he's the best villian since Mr. Potter in "It's a Wonderful Life". Oh, yeah, and he belongs to a whacky cult.

More to the point, if the GOP can't win espousing true conservative values, if it has to try to fool people by getting a "moderate" who can't wait to "move to the middle" after he's quieted down the right wingers, what's the point of having a movement at all?

If you are just voting because you hate Obama, I guess that works.

The Republicans need moderates, independents, and fiscal conservatives in order to win the White House...That is fact, not opinion. The vast majority of voters who would choose Santorum or Newt in the final election are already in the (R)ight column, regardless...All except for you and a few other bigots who are afraid of Mormons, that is.

Well, polls show that 22% of the electorate won't vote for a Mormon, so it's more than a few. When the media gets done exposing the batshit crazy, it'll go higher.

Again, there's a real danger of a third party splitting off if Romney becomes too divisive, which he's already becoming to a degree with his nasty attacks on other candidates.

Ted Kennedy begat John Anderson, and Pat Buchanan begat Ross Perot.

Toward some of your other comments, much of the voting in primaries is often defensive, meaning many of those who voted for Santorum in Iowa are either voters who want to see Romney lose the nomination, or see Obama win a second term...

Bullshit. The same amount of people voted in the GOP Caucus this year as in 2008. Which means it was largely the same people, because in 2008, the Dems had their own caucus that was hotly contested. It was probably the same people, save some young college kids who voted for Ron Paul so he could legalize their weed. No Dems came over to either cause trouble or because they were looking at the other party.

All things considered, comparing Mitt's Iowa caucus numbers to his 2008 numbers are relatively meaningless, unless you're a talking head with an agenda to spin...

NO, actually, they are kind of telling and distressing. To start with, he's been at this for five years now, and unlike 2008, where he was running against really notable opponents, such as McCain (Senator, War Hero) Huckabee (noted religious leader, Governor for several terms) Guliani (Hero of 9/11) and Thompson (he was on Law and Order, dammit. I think he was a Senator, too.)

This time, he's running against has-beens and never-weres, and he gets EXACTLY the same result.

Also, most people can see the differences between a 1994 Senate race in Massachusetts, a 2008 Presidential race following 8 years of Bush/Cheney, and a 2012 Presidential race after 4 years of Obama/Biden. The political circumstances and context of national sentiment are quite different, to say the least...

NOt really. If anything, beating Obama is going to be harder in 2012. First, you have the 69 million people who voted for him. Human nature is kind of funny. It's hard to get people to admit they made a mistake. That's why the only two incumbants voted out since WWII* - Carter and Bush-41 - lost because third party challengers ate into their base. Otherwise, incumbants keep most of the people who voted for them the first time.

Contexts may change, but Romney still isn't well liked by even the people who should be his base.

Second, you are going to have to get all the McCain voters to stick with Romney. Some of only voted for McCain because he WASN'T Romney. (The reason I voted for him in the primaries. I really wanted to vote for Hucakbee, but I couldn't take the chance Romney would win IL.)

(*- I don't count Jerry Ford, as he was never actually elected. Still, it was close.)

I wonder if it's possible for you to explain what it is in particular about a Romney presidency that you are SO opposed to without mentioning his religion?

Why should that be off limits? Perry and Huckabee were taken to task for their support of Creationism, people took Obama to task for Reverand Wright (although not nearly enough, IMHO). SO Romney, who believes in even crazier religious stuff, gets a pass, why, exactly? Dammit, if it's fair to ask Rick Perry if he believes in Talking Snakes, it's fair to ask Romney if he believes he's wearing Magic Underpants.

That by itself is a deal killer for me. But if you want other good reasons- how about these-
He made himself rich screwing over working folks. that means he's kind of a greedy asshole who doesn't care about working folks. (Seriously, this is the biggest problem the GOP has.)

He talks out of both sides of his mouth on every issue. That tells me he's got no core convictions.

And Deep Down, he's a big statist liberal who probably won't overturn ObamaCare or any of the other mistakes of the last 4 years.

 

[Truthseeker420]

looks like it will be mitten but oh, how sad that will be. A very entertaining republican eat republican season will grind to a halt as boring mitten becomes the presidential candidate.

me too!

 

[JoeB131]

Mormons believe black people are God's filthy mistake.

Fact, not opinion.

Well, I think you might be God's filthy mistake, but back to the subject of Mitt's presidency? You are afraid of certain Mormon policies he will implement because he supposedly secretly advocates against black people, are you?

MOrmons believe that dark skin is a curse from God. Not only were the blacks cursed with Dark Skin because of the sin of Ham or Cain, but the Native Americans were cursed with Dark skin because of the sin of the Laminanites killing off the Nephites.

Cursed by God, apparently.

 

[Ravi]

Don't you mean use to believe that, Joe?

 

[JoeB131]

Don't you mean use to believe that, Joe?

Nope. The offending passages are still in the Book of Mormon and the Pearl of Great Price.

 

[Ravi]

Don't you mean use to believe that, Joe?

Nope. The offending passages are still in the Book of Mormon and the Pearl of Great Price.

They were reflective of the time. If you do a little research you will find that the Mormon's have changed their stance on this issue.

 

[JoeB131]

Don't you mean use to believe that, Joe?

Nope. The offending passages are still in the Book of Mormon and the Pearl of Great Price.

They were reflective of the time. If you do a little research you will find that the Mormon's have changed their stance on this issue.

I have done the research, and, no, they really haven't.

This is IN THEIR BIBLES. They did not rewrite the book of Mormon (Because, after all, it was divine revelation.)

But you do bring up a point. You admit that they were 'reflective' of the time. And I agree. Joseph Smith was a typical, racist 19th Century White dude.

However, that's NOT how he presented these writings. He presented them as his divine translation of ancient books that God had guided him to. The book of Mormon from "Golden Plates" that God took back after Joe was done copying them. (No, really!) The Book of Abraham from Egyptian Papyrus that have been subsequently determined to have been Pagan funerary scrolls. The Book of Moses were from "Visions" he got from God.

So essentially, these 'ancient' writings oddly had 19th views on race. No really.

Or they were just frauds made up by a con man who wanted to bang 14 year old girls.

 

[Ravi]

The Book of Mormon did not countenance any form of curse-based discrimination. It stated that the Lord "denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female; and he remembereth the heathen; and all are alike unto God, both Jew and Gentile". (2 Nephi 26:33). In fact, prejudice against people of dark skin was condemned more than once, here being one example:

O my brethren, I fear that unless ye shall repent of your sins that their skins will be whiter than yours, when ye shall be brought with them before the throne of God. Wherefore, a commandment I give unto you, which is the word of God, that ye revile no more against them because of the darkness of their skins; neither shall ye revile against them because of their filthiness..." (Jacob 3:8-9).

From wikipedia.

Methinks you are hysterical.

 

[JoeB131]

The Book of Mormon did not countenance any form of curse-based discrimination. It stated that the Lord "denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female; and he remembereth the heathen; and all are alike unto God, both Jew and Gentile". (2 Nephi 26:33). In fact, prejudice against people of dark skin was condemned more than once, here being one example:

O my brethren, I fear that unless ye shall repent of your sins that their skins will be whiter than yours, when ye shall be brought with them before the throne of God. Wherefore, a commandment I give unto you, which is the word of God, that ye revile no more against them because of the darkness of their skins; neither shall ye revile against them because of their filthiness..." (Jacob 3:8-9).

From wikipedia.

Methinks you are hysterical.

nope...

What's in their crazy, made up bible is in their crazy made up bible.

2 Nephi 5:21
"And the Lord had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them."

Alma 3: 6
"And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob, and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men."

3 Nephi 2:14-15
" And it came to pass that those Lamanites who had united with the Nephites were numbered among the Nephites; And their curse was taken from them, and their skin became white like unto the Nephites."

Moses 7:22
" And Enoch also beheld the residue of the people which were the sons of Adam; and they were a mixture of all the seed of Adam save it was the seed of Cain, for the seed of Cain were black, and had not place among them."

Abraham 1:21-24,27
"Now this king of Egypt was a descendant from the loins of Ham, and was a partaker of the blood of the Canaanites by birth. From this descent sprang all the Egyptians, and thus the blood of the Canaanites was preserved in the land."

LDS Mormon Church Racism Doctrine and Teaching

The Mormon God curses people with Dark skin...

 

[packeryman]

I like President-elect Newt.

Newt and his ego rode the bubble for a few days in Iowa, long enough to began to exhibit the same behavior as when he became leader of the House. He declared himself the nominee(what an ego maniac). Ask the members who served with the guy in the House, they will not endorse or support him, some will come out and say one day the guy had good ideas an the next he came with some off the wall deal. In other words they were saying he was a flake and that he was too unreliable to become. He left the House with ethic violations and sexual problems.He left Iowa with no delegates, very angry and vindictive about his loss. He was the perfect example of a poor looser and a whiner. To really show his ass, he vowed to get another Republican on TV(this loser has a huge ego an a manic/depressive personality).This was an example of why his fellow members would not endorse him, behavior like that. The American people would never have this guy's hand on the button. If all his negative baggage is vetted and one observes his past behavior an present in Iowa anyone still wanting to vote for this loser's elevator doesn't run to the top. Most people think the guy is a great con, a good snake oil salesman, he is what?, a wheeler dealer/consultant/lobbyist ? that took millions from Freddy Mac and the healthcare insurance industry, the epitome of a Washington insider that knows how to use the revolving doors. That is not considered a positive attribute in the minds of most. If the guy was a car salesman and had the character Newt has exhibited, most would call him a low life. Now we move to NH and latest poll today Monday, he is where he belongs in the polls below Huntsman. No one really cares because he is not on the ballot in Va. this is good for the GOP. We now have a choice Romney or Ron Paul. Santorum and Perry are going nowhere, Paul could pull Dem's, Independents, Libertarians(only party on all state ballots, he would have to run on this ticket), of course Ron Paul Republicans,some Republicans that want the two party system shook up, and the hard liners of the party politically savvy enough to know that a vote for a Republican would be wasted therefore they would have to vote third party if they wanted vote to count against Obama.