I know it won't make a difference to the radicalized people....

[NYcarbineer]

But sometimes it has to simplified for some people to understand the argument.

View attachment 45796

So the guy on the left should make more money. Why don't you support that you fascist.

I do support it. However, since you don't seem to have any ability to reason, I'm going to ask you how you come to the conclusion that I don't support the responsible guy making more money?

Because I don't support giving high wages to those without the skills to justify it?

No, because you're a conservative who votes Republican.

 

[Nosmo King]

Wage suppression! That's a great plank for any Republican to run on!

What have working families done to Conservatives to have such scorn heaped upon them?

Raise the minimum wage for all workers clocking in 30 hours a week or greater. Now.

Teenagers working a summer job aren't working families. At risk minority youth suffer the most from an increase. Does a higher unemployment rate for minority youth a political platform you support?

30 hours a week. That's 30 HOURS A WEEK

People actually working for a living do not deserve to live in utter poverty.

Then get a job that pays more

Put money back into the schools so that's possible!

 

[Darkwind]

But sometimes it has to simplified for some people to understand the argument.

View attachment 45796

So the guy on the left should make more money. Why don't you support that you fascist.

I do support it. However, since you don't seem to have any ability to reason, I'm going to ask you how you come to the conclusion that I don't support the responsible guy making more money?

Because I don't support giving high wages to those without the skills to justify it?

No, because you're a conservative who votes Republican.

Actually, I'm a conservative that votes for people with proven conservative actions....I only vote Republican when the people of this country leave Me only two choices......Bad (Republican) and disaster (Democrat)...

 

[Darkwind]

Wage suppression! That's a great plank for any Republican to run on!

What have working families done to Conservatives to have such scorn heaped upon them?

Raise the minimum wage for all workers clocking in 30 hours a week or greater. Now.

Teenagers working a summer job aren't working families. At risk minority youth suffer the most from an increase. Does a higher unemployment rate for minority youth a political platform you support?

30 hours a week. That's 30 HOURS A WEEK

People actually working for a living do not deserve to live in utter poverty.

Then get a job that pays more

Put money back into the schools so that's possible!

That is not the problem. We already pay more per student then the vast majority of the world.

 

[NYcarbineer]

But sometimes it has to simplified for some people to understand the argument.

View attachment 45796

Tell us who exactly the man is on the left. His job, his employer.

 

[Darkwind]

But sometimes it has to simplified for some people to understand the argument.

View attachment 45796

Tell us who exactly the man is on the left. His job, his employer.

I guess you're blind....His employer matters not one whit. He is an EMT worker.....

But we all know that anyone can walk off the street and just start doing EMS work, right?

 

[koshergrl]

I've heard it said that the test of a society is how it treats its most vulnerable people. Seems a lot of people here would find that too human a concept.

Here and within the far right wing of the Republican party. They complain and point fingers until they're blue in the face but refuse to offer any real solutions to problems.

everyone does that...... because no one wants to actually work........

Everyone? No

No one? Again, no.

This is a favorite argument from the right that is complete and utter bullshit. There are plenty of people who bust their rear ends just trying to make ends meet. People DESERVE a living wage, period.

An ever increasing wage is not a living wage. A living wage is $2/day. Enough to buy two dollars of food per day, just enough to keep you alive.

Understand the terms you use. Nobody is guaranteed to get paid like an architect when they do the work of an inexperienced, stupid loser...if they bother to come to work. People EARN advancements in careers and income. If they can't earn it, we don't just go ahead and pay them as if they are.

 

[Bombur]

But sometimes it has to simplified for some people to understand the argument.

View attachment 45796

I was told in another thread that the problem with people's income is that they just don't work hard enough. On one side of this argument are people who think that the working class has been hosed. The other side thinks everything is fine but when they are not fine it is because people are not pulling on their boot straps hard enough.

BTW I am for a higher min wage but it needs to increase gradually. The last thing that labor market needs is a price shock.

Then you were told wrong.

The problem is not that people who want more need to work harder. It is that if they want more (i.e., wages) they have to bring more to the table than they are bringing right now. If I flip burgers (which requires nearly zero skills) and want more money, I take a few classes in management or supervision at the local CC...

If I want to make a lot MORE money, I take classes in a vocation that interests Me, do research on that vocation while getting the skills, and then go to get job well prepared to meet an employers need in that particular job.

I don't walk on a sidewalk and whine like a 4 year old about how life isn't fair and that this world owes Me something.

Once again, there are two sides to the argument. Those that recognize that the working class in this country have gotten a raw deal and those who just want people to pull on those boot straps a little harder and things will magically get better.

The clear demonstration of why this boot strap view of reality is broken is the EMT guy who works really hard but is still earning a wage that makes him dependent on the state for help.

There are some fundamental problems in our labor market and the right needs to not only accept that these problems exists but they have a real impact on the lives of working families. The right needs to stop pointing at the poor and blaming them for everything.

 

[koshergrl]

Who do you consider vulnerable?

Those in full time work not earning a living wage who must be subsidised by the taxpayer.

So it's either screw the people making money or screw the business, and let the slackers continue to slack?
I don't think so....

No one is talking about slackers. The most vocal people in the debate are those working multiple jobs just to make ends meet. Everyone deserves a roof over their head, food in their stomach, and the chance to better themselves and their situation, period.

They do that by bettering themselves. Not by forcing people to pay them more money for doing unskilled work badly.

Again, HOW?

You can't tell people to better themselves without also providing the necessary tools and opportunity to do so.

The necessary tools and opportunity are there. We don't just reward them for not doing anything. If you're a high school drop out with a drug problem and 5 kids, guess what? You need to knuckle down and work your ass off, even if you don't like what you're doing. Do that for two years and then look for something better. That's how you do it. Just because you made bad decisions doesn't mean the world is obliged to treat you as if you graduated high school, went to Harvard, and got a law degree. Get over it.

 

[NYcarbineer]

But sometimes it has to simplified for some people to understand the argument.

View attachment 45796

Tell us who exactly the man is on the left. His job, his employer.

I guess you're blind....His employer matters not one whit. He is an EMT worker.....

But we all know that anyone can walk off the street and just start doing EMS work, right?

Send your praise here:

International Association of EMTs and Paramedics. EMS union working for EMS professionals.

 

[koshergrl]

But sometimes it has to simplified for some people to understand the argument.

View attachment 45796

I was told in another thread that the problem with people's income is that they just don't work hard enough. On one side of this argument are people who think that the working class has been hosed. The other side thinks everything is fine but when they are not fine it is because people are not pulling on their boot straps hard enough.

BTW I am for a higher min wage but it needs to increase gradually. The last thing that labor market needs is a price shock.

Then you were told wrong.

The problem is not that people who want more need to work harder. It is that if they want more (i.e., wages) they have to bring more to the table than they are bringing right now. If I flip burgers (which requires nearly zero skills) and want more money, I take a few classes in management or supervision at the local CC...

If I want to make a lot MORE money, I take classes in a vocation that interests Me, do research on that vocation while getting the skills, and then go to get job well prepared to meet an employers need in that particular job.

I don't walk on a sidewalk and whine like a 4 year old about how life isn't fair and that this world owes Me something.

Once again, there are two sides to the argument. Those that recognize that the working class in this country have gotten a raw deal and those who just want people to pull on those boot straps a little harder and things will magically get better.

The clear demonstration of why this boot strap view of reality is broken is the EMT guy who works really hard but is still earning a wage that makes him dependent on the state for help.

There are some fundamental problems in our labor market and the right needs to not only accept that these problems exists but they have a real impact on the lives of working families. The right needs to stop pointing at the poor and blaming them for everything.

The idiots who work 4 hours 4 days a week at McDonald's aren't "working class". They're "non-working class" because they can't get and keep a decent job, or earn enough to support themselves. WORKING CLASS people aren't sucking foodstamps. They're people like me who work their fucking asses off to get by without foodstamps. Paying people more to do less is retarded. I just can't get over how retarded lefties are.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Wage suppression! That's a great plank for any Republican to run on!

What have working families done to Conservatives to have such scorn heaped upon them?

Raise the minimum wage for all workers clocking in 30 hours a week or greater. Now.

Teenagers working a summer job aren't working families. At risk minority youth suffer the most from an increase. Does a higher unemployment rate for minority youth a political platform you support?

30 hours a week. That's 30 HOURS A WEEK

People actually working for a living do not deserve to live in utter poverty.

Then get a job that pays more

Put money back into the schools so that's possible!

We spend more on public education than any other country in the world with the exception of Switzerland. Exactly how much more are we supposed to spend? Please provide me with a number.

The most expensive school districts in this country are some of the worst performing. Roughly $25,000 is doled out per student in the Washington D.C. public school system, the most of any district in the country, and their school system is absolute shit. NYC is around $20,000 per student and they also have a very poor system. So how much?

 

[Derideo_Te]

But sometimes it has to simplified for some people to understand the argument.

View attachment 45796

The president of the United States makes approximately $400,000 a year plus many other perks and benefits. A surgeon averages $250,000 a year saving lives and relieving pain and suffering. The president of the United States causes and allows social and economic pain and suffering. A stripper can make $500.00 a night or more showing her ass and swinging on a pole. A lawyer can make $Millions a year helping the wealthy, the powerful, the influential, and celebrities beat criminal charges. A preacher can make $Millions selling religion. A used car salesman can make $80,000 a year selling junk cars.

So, your point is? If everything fair? Are wages fair across the board? Are some worth more than they're paid? Are some paid way more than they're worth? Is a U.S. Congressperson worth what taxpayers are paying them? Considering the perks and benefits that a member of Congress gets, are they worth it? Are some people in this country over-paid? Are some people in this country under-paid? Is life fair? Is there an absolute value for everything and everyone? Is a meal really worth $80.00 just because it's served in an elite neighborhood, and in a fancy building? Is a cup of coffee at Starbucks really worth $8.00?

Think about it.

The point is, you are not "owed" by anyone. flipping burgers DESERVES less money - I don't care if the industry demands it or not. If the business determines they WANT to pay more to a fast food employee, fine, but the Gov't should not mandate a minimum wage of $15 per hour. That is the Government making decisions for businesses and is a very leftwing/liberal agenda.

LESS GOVERNMENT INVOLVEMENT PLEASE!

You are subsidizing the businesses that underpay their workers through your taxes.

Why should any business be entitled to taxpayer subsidized workers?

And before you decide that you want to eliminate subsidies for underpaid workers you will have to deal with rampant crime if you go down that path.

Paying anyone who works 8 hours a day a living wage means lower taxes for everyone else.

Think about it.

 

[The Rabbi]

Wage suppression! That's a great plank for any Republican to run on!

What have working families done to Conservatives to have such scorn heaped upon them?

Raise the minimum wage for all workers clocking in 30 hours a week or greater. Now.

Teenagers working a summer job aren't working families. At risk minority youth suffer the most from an increase. Does a higher unemployment rate for minority youth a political platform you support?

30 hours a week. That's 30 HOURS A WEEK

People actually working for a living do not deserve to live in utter poverty.

Then get a job that pays more

Put money back into the schools so that's possible!

Lack of money is not the problem that schools have. Lack of responsibility and accountability is.

 

[Derideo_Te]

All those little millennial indoctrinated college grads, living in their parent's basement, just asked mom for $15.00 for gas to get to the unemployment office.....

You can't draw unemployment unless you have worked in a job first.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

And before you decide that you want to eliminate subsidies for underpaid workers you will have to deal with rampant crime if you go down that path.

Where was all this rampant crime you speak of prior to the welfare state?

 

[Darkwind]

But sometimes it has to simplified for some people to understand the argument.

View attachment 45796

I was told in another thread that the problem with people's income is that they just don't work hard enough. On one side of this argument are people who think that the working class has been hosed. The other side thinks everything is fine but when they are not fine it is because people are not pulling on their boot straps hard enough.

BTW I am for a higher min wage but it needs to increase gradually. The last thing that labor market needs is a price shock.

Then you were told wrong.

The problem is not that people who want more need to work harder. It is that if they want more (i.e., wages) they have to bring more to the table than they are bringing right now. If I flip burgers (which requires nearly zero skills) and want more money, I take a few classes in management or supervision at the local CC...

If I want to make a lot MORE money, I take classes in a vocation that interests Me, do research on that vocation while getting the skills, and then go to get job well prepared to meet an employers need in that particular job.

I don't walk on a sidewalk and whine like a 4 year old about how life isn't fair and that this world owes Me something.

Once again, there are two sides to the argument. Those that recognize that the working class in this country have gotten a raw deal and those who just want people to pull on those boot straps a little harder and things will magically get better.

The clear demonstration of why this boot strap view of reality is broken is the EMT guy who works really hard but is still earning a wage that makes him dependent on the state for help.

There are some fundamental problems in our labor market and the right needs to not only accept that these problems exists but they have a real impact on the lives of working families. The right needs to stop pointing at the poor and blaming them for everything.

yeah, sorry but I don't buy into the workers of the world are getting screwed meme....Every person who works knows what they are going into before they put in their very first hour of labor. Knowing that, they have two options.

Decide that they are going to use a bad situation or poor job as a mere stepping stone to better things, or;

Decide that they're going to whine and complain and hope that they can get enough people on their side to make themselves feel part of a collective......

The former is a proactive means of living life...the later is nothing more than passive-aggressive manipulation of a the system for their own selfish benefit.

The guy on the left is working at 15 dollars an hour....He worked hard to acquire the education to get that job.

Here is where your (and most progressive) argument fails.

Who says he will remain in that job or remain at 15 per hour?

If he wants more, he already has a background and eduction in emergency medicine....He'll likely continue his education and work his way up to a Nurses aid? Maybe a LPN? Or even up to a full blown Nurse....

And guess what...He likely won't stop there....After that, he'll still be young....perhaps a Physcians Assistant? Maybe even get a medical degree and become a Doctor....

All of this moves him up the ladder in income and career satisfaction...

Stop thinking that once you have a job...(good paying or otherwise) that you can just stop trying to advance yourself....

You must continually be striving to improve your skills and quality of life....

Just to it at your own expense.

 

[Pogo]

Once again, there are two sides to the argument. Those that recognize that the working class in this country have gotten a raw deal and those who just want people to pull on those boot straps a little harder and things will magically get better.

The clear demonstration of why this boot strap view of reality is broken is the EMT guy who works really hard but is still earning a wage that makes him dependent on the state for help.

And that goes right back to cultural values. We don't put much value on an EMT saving lives. We put value on rich heirs with fake combovers on "reality" shows going "you're fired". That kinda speaks volumes.

 

[MsnBama]

The idiots who work 4 hours 4 days a week at McDonald's aren't "working class". They're "non-working class" because they can't get and keep a decent job, or earn enough to support themselves. WORKING CLASS people aren't sucking foodstamps. They're people like me who work their fucking asses off to get by without foodstamps. Paying people more to do less is retarded. I just can't get over how retarded lefties are.

Who said a thing about paying people more to do less?

Stop spending your time calling people names and recognize that many people living at or below the poverty line only want to make enough money to survive while they are doing what it takes to better themselves. $8 an hour/ 40 hours a week is nowhere near what it takes just to survive.

 

[Derideo_Te]

And before you decide that you want to eliminate subsidies for underpaid workers you will have to deal with rampant crime if you go down that path.

Where was all this rampant crime you speak of prior to the welfare state?

Define the "welfare state" and when did it begin?