I have had it

[Two Thumbs]

I'm all for cheap, safe electrical power. I'm also for a safe, clean and sustainable environment. Then support your local nuclear power plant!! Safest on the planet.

Strip mining is a terrible way to extract coal. It scars the land permanently. It ruins the aquifer and surface water supply and leaves a barren wasteland devoid of the natural forests which were cut away to expose the soil. If this was true, wouldn't there be more dead people in WV, from all the poisons?

Mountain top removal is a suicide pact. Taking the tops from the mountains and depositing them in the valleys making West Virginia not "almost Heaven" but "almost level". Suicide pact? Did you take a double dose of "Overkill" pills this morning?

I sit on the Marcellus Shale deposits which could provide an abundant source of natural gas. But, in most cases, to extract the gas, drilling operations must fracture the geologic substrate with hazardous fluids which pollute the ground water supply. That's been debunked. Fracturing occurs below the water line.

We have been extracting coal from deep mines with varying degrees of success for years. Some of the newer techniques (like 'long wall' mining) have proven more destructive than necessary.

There are ways of getting our resources from where they are to where they are needed. Doing it safely for the workers and the environment is the important job before us. *ahem* nuclear

I'm and environmentalist and I don't want to put families out of work or shut down a whole industry for the sake of a lizard. These are cheap and unreasoned claims made by the right. Why? I could only speculate. spotted owl comes to mind.

One reason might be those making such claims have no vested interest in the environment at the point of resource extraction. They can sit back and create convienient fiction to bolster their position that the economy trumps safety. Others just want to score some cheap political points. I suppose that's because they have utterly failed to inform themselves about the dangers of wreckless expansion without regard to safety of workers and the environment. The only way to curb expansion is a mass die off of the human race. Unless you want vast sky scrapers built.

But if I keep assuming why righties make such claims, I would be guilty of the same ignorance and short sightedness they are guitly of.

This is my take on this.

The left is pushing and pushing green energy, w/o any evidence, not to mention no proof, that it can work on a large scale.

There is no energy source that someone on the left is not against.

none

They hate coal, and make up shit about it poisoning the water.
Hate oil b/c BIG oil makes money. fyi; it's less than the government makes off of it.
Hate nuclear, b/c we have to store the waste. [there's not that much]
hate wind b/c it kills birds and changes migration
hate solar b/c of glare pollution
hate natural gas, well you mentioned the fiction of that yourself
hate damns b/c you have to change the land scape

If I missed anything, let me know and Ill tell you why you are supposed to hate it.

 

[Truthmatters]

You missed reality

 

[peach174]

You missed reality

You are the one that is not acepting that we don't have any cheaper energy to take over coal. You are not compromising, just like all of the left is not compromising. Must be done one way and only one way. The Left's way is the only way, when it isn't.

 

[Two Thumbs]

You missed reality

Reality

You hate reality b/c many on the left are unconcerned about the consequinces of their actions.

clearly a chunk of you think everyone can thrive in a college setting. Clearly the reality, you hate so much, shows otherwise.

 

[Truthmatters]

so tell me how horrible this national park will be compared to a strip mine?

 

[peach174]

so tell me how horrible this national park will be compared to a strip mine?

You just love your tunnel vision don't you?
Do you understand how dumb you are sounding?

 

[Nosmo King]

I'm all for cheap, safe electrical power. I'm also for a safe, clean and sustainable environment. Then support your local nuclear power plant!! Safest on the planet.That's what the Japanese say! er, ah, the Ukrainians!

Strip mining is a terrible way to extract coal. It scars the land permanently. It ruins the aquifer and surface water supply and leaves a barren wasteland devoid of the natural forests which were cut away to expose the soil. If this was true, wouldn't there be more dead people in WV, from all the poisons?Not dead people, but non potable water from ruined wells. That ruins property values too. I figured that you could relate more easily with a drop in monetary value than quality of potable water.

Mountain top removal is a suicide pact. Taking the tops from the mountains and depositing them in the valleys making West Virginia not "almost Heaven" but "almost level". Suicide pact? Did you take a double dose of "Overkill" pills this morning?Ruining forests, streams, PROPERTY VALUES and water supplies ain't overkill. It is economic suicide. Like heroin addiction, it feels good at first, but the effects are disastrous.

I sit on the Marcellus Shale deposits which could provide an abundant source of natural gas. But, in most cases, to extract the gas, drilling operations must fracture the geologic substrate with hazardous fluids which pollute the ground water supply. That's been debunked. Fracturing occurs below the water line.But those pesky chemicals come right up the casing pipe. Hydrodynamics trumps Conservative spin. C'mon over here and ask the folks in Greensburg, Pennsylvania for a tall, cool glass of ice water. I dare ya! Who "debunked" that fact? The gas producer's association? Credible source there!

We have been extracting coal from deep mines with varying degrees of success for years. Some of the newer techniques (like 'long wall' mining) have proven more destructive than necessary.

There are ways of getting our resources from where they are to where they are needed. Doing it safely for the workers and the environment is the important job before us. *ahem* nuclearCan we take all the waste to your hometown for 'permanent' disposal? It's only squirrelly for 10,000 years!

I'm and environmentalist and I don't want to put families out of work or shut down a whole industry for the sake of a lizard. These are cheap and unreasoned claims made by the right. Why? I could only speculate. spotted owl comes to mind.

One reason might be those making such claims have no vested interest in the environment at the point of resource extraction. They can sit back and create convienient fiction to bolster their position that the economy trumps safety. Others just want to score some cheap political points. I suppose that's because they have utterly failed to inform themselves about the dangers of wreckless expansion without regard to safety of workers and the environment. The only way to curb expansion is a mass die off of the human race. Unless you want vast sky scrapers built.the only way. sure. Where did you arrive at that conclusion? Sounds like the response you might be taught at a "Let's screw the planet for Profit" seminar!
But if I keep assuming why righties make such claims, I would be guilty of the same ignorance and short sightedness they are guitly of.

This is my take on this.

The left is pushing and pushing green energy, w/o any evidence, not to mention no proof, that it can work on a large scale.

There is no energy source that someone on the left is not against.

none

They hate coal, and make up shit about it poisoning the water.
Hate oil b/c BIG oil makes money. fyi; it's less than the government makes off of it.
Hate nuclear, b/c we have to store the waste. [there's not that much]
hate wind b/c it kills birds and changes migration
hate solar b/c of glare pollution
hate natural gas, well you mentioned the fiction of that yourself
hate damns b/c you have to change the land scape

If I missed anything, let me know and Ill tell you why you are supposed to hate it.

geothermal

 

[Truthmatters]

so tell me how horrible this national park will be compared to a strip mine?

You just love your tunnel vision don't you?
Do you understand how dumb you are sounding?

Do you realise that is the choice this whole thread is about?

why do you pretend Its not a spot on statement of the choice?

 

[Two Thumbs]

so tell me how horrible this national park will be compared to a strip mine?

It will take decades to build and develope.

The mines are open now.

 

[Truthmatters]

Umm the trees and mountains are already there.

The buildng of the roads and such can go on right now and create jobs in the area to make up for the mining jobs.

 

[Two Thumbs]

I'm all for cheap, safe electrical power. I'm also for a safe, clean and sustainable environment. Then support your local nuclear power plant!! Safest on the planet.That's what the Japanese say! er, ah, the Ukrainians!

Strip mining is a terrible way to extract coal. It scars the land permanently. It ruins the aquifer and surface water supply and leaves a barren wasteland devoid of the natural forests which were cut away to expose the soil. If this was true, wouldn't there be more dead people in WV, from all the poisons?Not dead people, but non potable water from ruined wells. That ruins property values too. I figured that you could relate more easily with a drop in monetary value than quality of potable water.

Mountain top removal is a suicide pact. Taking the tops from the mountains and depositing them in the valleys making West Virginia not "almost Heaven" but "almost level". Suicide pact? Did you take a double dose of "Overkill" pills this morning?Ruining forests, streams, PROPERTY VALUES and water supplies ain't overkill. It is economic suicide. Like heroin addiction, it feels good at first, but the effects are disastrous.

I sit on the Marcellus Shale deposits which could provide an abundant source of natural gas. But, in most cases, to extract the gas, drilling operations must fracture the geologic substrate with hazardous fluids which pollute the ground water supply. That's been debunked. Fracturing occurs below the water line.But those pesky chemicals come right up the casing pipe. Hydrodynamics trumps Conservative spin. C'mon over here and ask the folks in Greensburg, Pennsylvania for a tall, cool glass of ice water. I dare ya! Who "debunked" that fact? The gas producer's association? Credible source there!

We have been extracting coal from deep mines with varying degrees of success for years. Some of the newer techniques (like 'long wall' mining) have proven more destructive than necessary.

There are ways of getting our resources from where they are to where they are needed. Doing it safely for the workers and the environment is the important job before us. *ahem* nuclearCan we take all the waste to your hometown for 'permanent' disposal? It's only squirrelly for 10,000 years!

I'm and environmentalist and I don't want to put families out of work or shut down a whole industry for the sake of a lizard. These are cheap and unreasoned claims made by the right. Why? I could only speculate. spotted owl comes to mind.

One reason might be those making such claims have no vested interest in the environment at the point of resource extraction. They can sit back and create convienient fiction to bolster their position that the economy trumps safety. Others just want to score some cheap political points. I suppose that's because they have utterly failed to inform themselves about the dangers of wreckless expansion without regard to safety of workers and the environment. The only way to curb expansion is a mass die off of the human race. Unless you want vast sky scrapers built.the only way. sure. Where did you arrive at that conclusion? Sounds like the response you might be taught at a "Let's screw the planet for Profit" seminar!
But if I keep assuming why righties make such claims, I would be guilty of the same ignorance and short sightedness they are guitly of.

This is my take on this.

The left is pushing and pushing green energy, w/o any evidence, not to mention no proof, that it can work on a large scale.

There is no energy source that someone on the left is not against.

none

They hate coal, and make up shit about it poisoning the water.
Hate oil b/c BIG oil makes money. fyi; it's less than the government makes off of it.
Hate nuclear, b/c we have to store the waste. [there's not that much]
hate wind b/c it kills birds and changes migration
hate solar b/c of glare pollution
hate natural gas, well you mentioned the fiction of that yourself
hate damns b/c you have to change the land scape

If I missed anything, let me know and Ill tell you why you are supposed to hate it.

geothermal

oooo

Good choice

BUT

That involves deep drilling. And who knows how to drill deep? [get your mind outta the gutter]

BIG OIL!!!



And it scars the land scape. Kills polar bears, blah blah blah.

On the conservative side of that.

I'd be all for it, if we had enough sources like Greenland does.




also, I know these are blanket thought for the left. I'm sure there's more than one person over there that knows "Glare pollution" is a retarded excuse, as well as bird migrations being an issue for wind.

but we have people here in PA that protest the mines, then protest the natural gas, then protest the nuke plants.

We have to come to terms that wind and solar are decades away from being a valid source and putting the screws to any of what we have now to push other sources is just wrong.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Umm the trees and mountains are already there.

The buildng of the roads and such can go on right now and create jobs in the area to make up for the mining jobs.

HAHAHA

ahh man,

You really can just pull anything outta your ass, can't you.

First you have to determine where you can put it.
that's about 1-5 years there
then you got to get bids on building
1-2 years
then you have to grind through the red tape liberals love so much
1 year
then you have to dump everything you did b/c some one doesn't want you being mean to some rare animal in the region.
start over 3-8 years.
first a hotel gets built with a diner
2-3 years
then people need to care about going there
1 year
then enough people have to come to force the need for growth
3 to never ever years.

good luck living in la la land, where things happen just b/c you want them to.

 

[peach174]

so tell me how horrible this national park will be compared to a strip mine?

You just love your tunnel vision don't you?
Do you understand how dumb you are sounding?

Do you realise that is the choice this whole thread is about?

why do you pretend Its not a spot on statement of the choice?

Choice?
I don't call shutting down coal mines in W. Virginia and oil wells in Texas a choice.
Driving up expensive energy so that only the rich can afford things.
We need it all until technology catches up.

 

[Synthaholic]

Black lung disease, long a killer of coal miners, is on the rise again after retreating in the 30 years since Congress passed tougher mine safety laws, health and safety experts said on Friday.
The renewed appearance of the disease emerged from an investigation of the worst U.S. coal mining disaster in four decades. It comes at a time when coal prices have risen sharply and some mine operators have been accused of cutting corners on safety in favor of profits.
Of the 29 miners killed in the blast at the Upper Big Branch mine in West Virginia on April 5 last year, almost 75 percent of them showed signs of black lung disease, according to an independent report released on Thursday.


LINK

 

[Two Thumbs]

Black lung disease, long a killer of coal miners, is on the rise again after retreating in the 30 years since Congress passed tougher mine safety laws, health and safety experts said on Friday.
The renewed appearance of the disease emerged from an investigation of the worst U.S. coal mining disaster in four decades. It comes at a time when coal prices have risen sharply and some mine operators have been accused of cutting corners on safety in favor of profits.
Of the 29 miners killed in the blast at the Upper Big Branch mine in West Virginia on April 5 last year, almost 75 percent of them showed signs of black lung disease, according to an independent report released on Thursday.


LINK

29 great reasons to support nuclear power.

 

[Synthaholic]

Environment : Health and Safety

Persistent black lung, old scourge of coal, found in autopsies of most Massey miners

People at an April 2010 memorial vigil remember 29 miners who died in the explosion at Massey Energy Co.'s Upper Big Branch mine in Montcoal, W.Va. A year after the disaster, an independent report criticizes federal inspectors for laxity and missing important clues leading to the explosion. The report also briefly mentions another problem that has eluded remedy for years: Most of the dead miners had the disease known as black lung.

The Associated Press / Amy Sancetta




At Upper Big Branch, examination reveals 17 of 29 had the preventable disease. Decade's overall death toll in U.S.: an estimated 10,000


By Chris Hamby

2:30 pm, May 19, 2011


Print
E-mail

11
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J. Davitt McAteer, former head of the federal Mine Safety and Health Administration, headed an independent investigation of the April 2010 mine explosion that criticized a corporate culture "bent on production at the expense of safety" and concluded that his former agency had "failed its duty as the watchdog for miners." Jeff Gentner/The Associated Press
Investigating Upper Big Branch tragedy: Report's key findings

An investigation by J. Davitt McAteer, former head of the Mine Safety and Health Administration, into the April 5, 2010 explosion at Massey Energy Co.’s Upper Big Branch Mine in West Virginia has concluded that:

• The massive explosion that killed 29 miners resulted from failures to follow basic safety practices, including using proper ventilation, adequately applying rock dust and maintaining water sprays on equipment – all practices designed to prevent or lessen the effects of an explosion. Massey Energy Co. and federal and state regulators all share the blame for these failures.

• Federal regulators failed to identify red flags, see the big picture and use enforcement tools at their disposal. "Despite MSHA’s considerable authority and resources, its collective knowledge and experience, the disaster at the Upper Big Branch mine is proof positive that the agency failed its duty as the watchdog for coal miners,” the report said.

• The regulatory agency in West Virginia is plagued by an inadequate inspection force and insufficient training, and the coal industry has too much influence with state officials. "If miners’ lives are to be safeguarded," stated the report, "the cozy relationship between high-ranking government officials and the coal industry must change, as must the relationship between the enforcement agency and the industry it regulates."

• Massey Energy Co. ignored well-established safety practices, intimidated workers who raised safety issues and used its clout to exert political influence and resist regulation. From the report: “Such total and catastrophic systemic failures can only be explained in the context of a culture in which wrongdoing became acceptable…It is only in the context of a culture bent on production at the expense of safety that these obvious deviations from decades of known safety practices make sense.”

Full report will be coming soon.
- Chris Hamby / iWatch News




Faces of black lung: A video

This video produced in 2008 by the National Institute of Occupational Safety and Health features two miners describing how the disease changed their lives.

A former coal miner with black lung, circa 1970. Environmental Protection Agency / National Archives
Year after tragedy, mining industry seeks some self-policing

By Chris Hamby

May 9, 2011

The mining industry, under increased scrutiny a year after the deadliest U.S. mine accident in decades, is asking the government for a more cooperative form of regulation that would allow some mines to avoid regular inspections.








Autopsies of the 29 men killed in last year’s explosion at the Upper Big Branch coal mine in West Virginia revealed a surprising fact: Most had coal workers’ pneumoconiosis, better known as black lung , a deadly disease that U.S. authorities have been vowing to eradicate for more than 40 years.


The finding is tucked inside a 129-page report released today by an independent panel investigating the mine disaster. Of the 24 miners whose lungs could be examined, 17 had the disease — a rate more than 20 times higher than the average for all underground coal miners.


It wasn’t just the long-time miners working for Massey Energy Co. who had the disease. Some were as young as 25, and five had less than 10 years of experience working in coal mines, according to the report, which largely focused on failures by state and federal regulators and Massey to safeguard miners at Upper Big Branch.

 

[Synthaholic]

Despite mining disaster, report says coal giant Massey 'has not changed' and execs stay on


By Marian Wang, ProPublica

Buried within the damning report released last week on the Upper Big Branch coal mine disaster that killed 29 workers last year were some interesting details about what could lie ahead for Massey Energy, its executives, and the safety of its operations.

The report, which was commissioned by West Virginia's former governor, noted that 18 current and former executives invoked their Fifth Amendment right to avoid self-incrimination and refused to cooperate with investigators. Nonetheless, investigators concluded that the preventable disaster was a result of a "total and catastrophic systemic failure" by Massey Energy.

"It is only in the context of a culture bent on production at the expense of safety that these obvious deviations from decades of known safety practices make sense," the report said. It also noted that the company's practices haven't improved much -- if at all -- since the disaster occurred.

"More than a year after 29 men died in the Upper Big Branch mine, there is strong evidence that Massey has not changed the manner in which it operates its mines," the report said.

Investigators said the coal giant had "used the leverage of jobs it provided to attempt to control West Virginia's political system," casting inspectors, regulators, and even politicians and community residents as enemies. According to the report, the company's former CEO, Don Blankenship, instilled fear in local politicians by spending "vast amounts of money to influence elections."

 

[k2skier]

I'm all for cheap, safe electrical power. I'm also for a safe, clean and sustainable environment.

Strip mining is a terrible way to extract coal. It scars the land permanently. It ruins the aquifer and surface water supply and leaves a barren wasteland devoid of the natural forests which were cut away to expose the soil.

Mountain top removal is a suicide pact. Taking the tops from the mountains and depositing them in the valleys making West Virginia not "almost Heaven" but "almost level".

I sit on the Marcellus Shale deposits which could provide an abundant source of natural gas. But, in most cases, to extract the gas, drilling operations must fracture the geologic substrate with hazardous fluids which pollute the ground water supply.

We have been extracting coal from deep mines with varying degrees of success for years. Some of the newer techniques (like 'long wall' mining) have proven more destructive than necessary.

There are ways of getting our resources from where they are to where they are needed. Doing it safely for the workers and the environment is the important job before us.

I'm and environmentalist and I don't want to put families out of work or shut down a whole industry for the sake of a lizard. These are cheap and unreasoned claims made by the right. Why? I could only speculate.

One reason might be those making such claims have no vested interest in the environment at the point of resource extraction. They can sit back and create convienient fiction to bolster their position that the economy trumps safety. Others just want to score some cheap political points. I suppose that's because they have utterly failed to inform themselves about the dangers of wreckless expansion without regard to safety of workers and the environment.

But if I keep assuming why righties make such claims, I would be guilty of the same ignorance and short sightedness they are guitly of.

 

[skookerasbil]

Let me start off my appologizing for my rant here. The mines I work for is probably going to be laying us off because those idiots at the EPA and the WVDEP dont want us mining anymore coal. Why? I dont know.

I am a proud native son of the great state of WV. Everytime I turn around some liberal, tree hugging hippie is trying to starve my family to death. I am a 4th generation coal miner. If liberals had their way they would starve my family out. What do they want us to do leave the state so they can turn the whole thing into a national park.

We have the opportunity to mine vast amounts of coal and drill for vast amounts of natural gas and assert some sort of energy independence. Instead these feel good enviro-freaks want to stop us. They set up in their ivory towers and have no idea what it is like to live like we do. If they spent a couple of years trying to provide a decent living for a family here they would see it as we do.

What else are we supposed to do? Do they want the proud hard working people of my state to stand on the side of the road and sell arts and crafts? Maybe we can all learn to play banjos and flat foot for the tourists. There are only so many bluegrass albums the market can bear.

People want to talk about alternatives for my states economy; to phase out our dependence on extractive industries. Talk all you want but I have yet to hear a good idea. You cant put an auto plant here because you cant find a flat acre ;except where they ripped the top of a mountain off and reclaimed it.

I do not have the luxury of worring about what will happen in 100 years because I have a house payment to make today.


For heavens sake let us feed and house our families by the sweat of our brow and the strenghth of our backs. I dont want a hand out or any sort of federal assistance. What we want is to be allowed to us the natural resources that the good Lord blessed us with to take care of ouselves.

I know that we cant mine coal forever but lets use it while we got it.

The far left is good at one thing in life = fcukking up others lives!!! Thats all they do...........thats all they are capable of doing with the way they think. They dont give a flying fcukk about regular folks.........as long as their fcukking k00k agenda's are met.

The plain fact is, if the God Damned religion gets their way, 2.3 million people in conventional energy industries will be out of jobs like you bro. Im real sorry to hear it and good luck.

The mental cases are ruining our country. They have more concern for an endangered fcuking fish and will stop at nothing to make sure their gay "green" economy takes shape. They want to do away with ALL coal. All oil..........and dont give a fcukk who gets fcukked over in the process.

But fear not my friend........the cavalry is coming next year when this fraud gets voted out of office and the government gets its rightful kick in the balls. America never intended for this far left shift but got bamboozled by a slick talking phoney who wants everything and anything traditional to be discarded. As you will see........this country has been and always will be a center-right country. It strays every so often but the politicians who play to the extreme fcukedupedness of the whims of confused people end up getting punted the fcukk out of office. The electoral map is already almost a lock for any GOP candidate........the Wizard of Oz is going to win the popular vote but lose the election. Write it down and fear not. Your industry will rise again..........and I highly recommend you get involved locally to make sure we keep these fanatical radical nuts out of positions of making public policy.

 

[skookerasbil]

This thread proves the demented thinking of liberals.

They think they know whats good for you better than you do.

They aim to control lives. They think they know what is best for people and to hell with your individual liberties.

Hey...........fruitfcukkingcakes............if people want to mine and get their lungs fcukked up, who the fcukk are you to tell them if its right or wrong?

Push is going to come to shove in this country and I cant wait............and I will be on the side of the winners. Why? Because my side will put their life on the line in a heartbeat to protect their freedom and liberty. I am 100% certain that the limpwristers of America will not be putting their lives on the line to protect one of their gay causes!!!


Its comin'..........and sheeeeeeeeeet. Im ready and packed to the fcukking 9's!!!