Humans are Intrinsically Evil

[Picaro]

People have to be taught to be evil. They also have to be taught self-control and discretion, and respect for others. That isn't 'inherent evil', it's just the nature of mammals they they take long period of time and nurture to mature. Some religions do a far better job of culture building, and Christianity is heads and shoulders above all the others at that. No wonder it is the theology most hated and violently repressed by the sociopaths, hedonists, and narcissists.

 

[Picaro]

Humans would call this selfishness. In the animal kingdom we call it survival...

I would disagree with the distinction between animals and humans that humans are animals any different than a tiger is an animal where the terms are not interchangeable, selfishness and survival ... humanity can be selfish where few others are be it survival or not.

That’s because we are smart enough to see advantage lesser animals might not recognize... It’s just a matter of intelligence.

.

That’s because we are smart enough to see advantage lesser animals might not recognize... It’s just a matter of intelligence.

for shame -

we'll put you in a room with the above and let the more intelligent one be the winner ....

in certain matters each being has an intelligence superior than those around them.

We've turned them all into essentially nothing but pets and zoo exhibits; they now rely on people to save them from extinction. Whatever momentary 'superiority' they have is very situation limited and not even remotely dominant. They do indeed rely on 'the kindness of strangers' for their survival as a species.

 

[task0778]

Hard to classify little girls bullying another little girl as a survival instinct. How were their best interests and benefits enhanced by such actions? Looks to me like intentional harm being done for no acceptable reason. Sounds evil to me.

Social dominance play. Very basic stuff...

Are you suggesting that this kind of 'social dominance play' is acceptable? What other species bullies their young for social dominance? In the animal kingdom, social dominance is basically done for reproductive purposes among adult males, to ensure the best genes get passed on to the next generation. These days, humans don't do much of that, especially between little girls.

You’ve never observed a litter of puppies, or kittens I see...

Matter of fact I have, and I really don't think what they do is anywhere close to bullying. Or do you really think what they're doing is intentional harmful?

Just because you don’t think so; doesn’t make it, or prevent it from being so...

Just because you do think so doesn't make it true either. What we're talking about is humiliation and degradation, the intentional harming of another person. There's no upside for anybody here, and there's nothing like that in the animal world. Puppies and kitties, my ass; those are babies, playing and learning about themselves and what they can do. Bulying isn't natural, it's evil. We have kids getting bullied to the point where they commit suicide and you say that is natural and acceptable? Bull fucking shit.

 

[Votto]

My grand-daughter is being "bullied" in pre-school. Other little girls mock her because she was wait-listed for a field trip to an ice cream emporium. And that's not all. It is routine.

People are evil. Unless an intervening force turns them around (partly or entirely) they will lie, cheat, and steal according to (a) the chances that they will get caught, and (b) the likely ramifications of being caught. Call it "original sin" if you must.

Note that there is nothing virtuous about not doing wrong when the likelihood of being caught is high or the ramifications dire.

Look at situations, cultures, and environments where parenting is lacking and the kids almost all and almost always turn out bad. This is the endemic problem with mother-led, single-parent households and the boys that come out of them. There is no sufficiently strong influence to turn them away from their natural hedonistic, selfish, vicious tendencies.

Look around the world at all the Russian emigres who are involved in major crime organizations of all kinds. Russia just came out of a situation where kids were taken from their parents and raised by a godless state FOR GENERATIONS. Is it any wonder that they are at the forefront of porn, countless scams, and international cyber-crime?

We should always be on the lookout for people and groups of people who are conspicuously virtuous: people who have high ethical and moral standards, who do well in school, who are accomplished but modest, people who give time and money to charitable causes, regardless of whether there is a tax deduction coming. And ask yourself WHY these folks are extraordinary.

Usually, there is a religious tradition in the family. It's not a coincidence.

Not so. All we need to do is teach the children about evolution and how to put rubbers on bananas in school and everything will be OK.

 

[Picaro]

My grand-daughter is being "bullied" in pre-school. Other little girls mock her because she was wait-listed for a field trip to an ice cream emporium. And that's not all. It is routine.

People are evil. Unless an intervening force turns them around (partly or entirely) they will lie, cheat, and steal according to (a) the chances that they will get caught, and (b) the likely ramifications of being caught. Call it "original sin" if you must.

Note that there is nothing virtuous about not doing wrong when the likelihood of being caught is high or the ramifications dire.

Look at situations, cultures, and environments where parenting is lacking and the kids almost all and almost always turn out bad. This is the endemic problem with mother-led, single-parent households and the boys that come out of them. There is no sufficiently strong influence to turn them away from their natural hedonistic, selfish, vicious tendencies.

Look around the world at all the Russian emigres who are involved in major crime organizations of all kinds. Russia just came out of a situation where kids were taken from their parents and raised by a godless state FOR GENERATIONS. Is it any wonder that they are at the forefront of porn, countless scams, and international cyber-crime?

We should always be on the lookout for people and groups of people who are conspicuously virtuous: people who have high ethical and moral standards, who do well in school, who are accomplished but modest, people who give time and money to charitable causes, regardless of whether there is a tax deduction coming. And ask yourself WHY these folks are extraordinary.

Usually, there is a religious tradition in the family. It's not a coincidence.

Not so. All we need to do is teach the children about evolution and how to put rubbers on bananas in school and everything will be OK.

Yes, and then set them in front of the TV and let them stare at all those 'Nature' shows on Saturday morning TV; there are literally zillions of those things, and nearly all laden with stupid propaganda.

 

[Picaro]

Social dominance play. Very basic stuff...

Are you suggesting that this kind of 'social dominance play' is acceptable? What other species bullies their young for social dominance? In the animal kingdom, social dominance is basically done for reproductive purposes among adult males, to ensure the best genes get passed on to the next generation. These days, humans don't do much of that, especially between little girls.

You’ve never observed a litter of puppies, or kittens I see...

Matter of fact I have, and I really don't think what they do is anywhere close to bullying. Or do you really think what they're doing is intentional harmful?

Just because you don’t think so; doesn’t make it, or prevent it from being so...

Just because you do think so doesn't make it true either. What we're talking about is humiliation and degradation, the intentional harming of another person. There's no upside for anybody here, and there's nothing like that in the animal world. Puppies and kitties, my ass; those are babies, playing and learning about themselves and what they can do. Bulying isn't natural, it's evil. We have kids getting bullied to the point where they commit suicide and you say that is natural and acceptable? Bull fucking shit.

'Bullying' is natural; maybe you are just a Snowflake wimp. The suicide rates come from weak parents and status games inflicted on these kids by adults and artificial expectations. Most of us get through it just fine when allowed to.

 

[Vastator]

Social dominance play. Very basic stuff...

Are you suggesting that this kind of 'social dominance play' is acceptable? What other species bullies their young for social dominance? In the animal kingdom, social dominance is basically done for reproductive purposes among adult males, to ensure the best genes get passed on to the next generation. These days, humans don't do much of that, especially between little girls.

You’ve never observed a litter of puppies, or kittens I see...

Matter of fact I have, and I really don't think what they do is anywhere close to bullying. Or do you really think what they're doing is intentional harmful?

Just because you don’t think so; doesn’t make it, or prevent it from being so...

Just because you do think so doesn't make it true either. What we're talking about is humiliation and degradation, the intentional harming of another person. There's no upside for anybody here, and there's nothing like that in the animal world. Puppies and kitties, my ass; those are babies, playing and learning about themselves and what they can do. Bulying isn't natural, it's evil. We have kids getting bullied to the point where they commit suicide and you say that is natural and acceptable? Bull fucking shit.

You keep attempting to put words in my mouth. Why? Additionally you keep moving the goal posts. Why?

 

[Unkotare]

....

People are evil. Unless an intervening force turns them around (partly or entirely) they will lie, cheat, and steal according to (a) the chances that they will get caught, and (b) the likely ramifications of being caught. Call it "original sin" if you must.

Note that there is nothing virtuous about not doing wrong when the likelihood of being caught is high or the ramifications dire......

Mo-tzu, is that you?

 

[there4eyeM]

Evil is inherently human, being a concept and word entirely of human creation. Humans can display facets that may fit the definition of 'evil'. They display all the other facets and concepts for which we have words. Saying that humans are inherently evil is to misunderstand how language functions.

 

[james bond]

There will always be bullies in school against those who are different. It is a bit unusual to be bullied for being wait listed. I'm not sure what is happening, but if I saw that happen to my daughter, then I would say something to the girls bullying her. Something like it's not right to pick on someone for their misfortune. It could happen to you sometime. I would try to find out what's going on and learn who the other pre-schoolers are and their parents. It could be an isolated incident. If it's routine, then I would let the teachers know. Things like that should not be tolerated by the teachers and administrators. It helps to know other parents just to talk with them to see what's going on. In my experience, it's unusual to have bullying incidents at pre-school. There are problem children even at that young age, but it's usually something that can be taken care of right away. It gets more difficult as the kids get older and there are more students usually middle school and high school. Even elementary school. Corporal punishment is out, so the kids sometimes take advantage and you know who these kids are. Thus, it helps to know other parents in the same class/grade to share information. Good luck.

 

[sparky]

People are evil.

You're just finding this out?

~S~

 

[there4eyeM]

Has anyone passed through school without being 'bullied'?

 

[Skull Pilot]

People have been bullying since there have been people on the planet.

Get over it

 

[BreezeWood]

.

People have been bullying since there have been people on the planet.

a good example ... of that unnecessary reality.

Look at situations, cultures, and environments where parenting is lacking and the kids almost all and almost always turn out bad. This is the endemic problem with mother-led, single-parent households and the boys that come out of them. There is no sufficiently strong influence to turn them away from their natural hedonistic, selfish, vicious tendencies.

who's bullying who, that guy, DGS49 has been around since the 4th century justified by an evil book, someday society will wake up and take it away from him ... freedom from evil.

Usually, there is a religious tradition in the family. It's not a coincidence.

- religious tradition in the family.

since the 4th century religion has persecuted and victimized innocent people unabated and with no remorse, they are what is unnaturally evil - their hated of innocents.

 

[Unkotare]

....

People are evil. Unless an intervening force turns them around (partly or entirely) they will lie, cheat, and steal according to (a) the chances that they will get caught, and (b) the likely ramifications of being caught. Call it "original sin" if you must.

Note that there is nothing virtuous about not doing wrong when the likelihood of being caught is high or the ramifications dire......

Mo-tzu, is that you?

Nobody? Nothing? Tough room.

 

[there4eyeM]

There are what appear to be necessary, natural passages in life. No one wants to see a child suffer anything, yet we cannot protect them from every sickness, for example. In fact, we know they need to be protected by their own body's defenses after exposure. It is unpleasant at the time, but is better in the long run.
Bullies and bullying are disgusting, but we have to learn to deal with adversity, even when that means simply enduring until it is finished. Bullies get bored after a while. After all, they are, by definition, not too bright.
Certainly, if it can be avoided, and even more, if it gets to a violent point, stepping in may be good. I remember one time in high school where I was cornered in a locker room exit stair well by a tough guy who just wanted to beat me up for his amusement. We were of the same skin color, so there was no 'racism' involved, I was just smaller and he was able. Just as he was about to start on me, out of the door came Maynard Scales, linebacker on the football team and as black as he was big. He saw immediately what was going on and told the bully that if anything happened to me for whatever reason, Maynard would be coming for him. I don't know why he did that, we weren't friends and I wasn't aware he knew I existed. I never spoke to him again. But, the bully never so much as looked at me after that.

 

[fncceo]

There is a neat way to deal with school bullies ... but it will void your warranty.

 

[PK1]

Humans are NOT Intrinsically Evil or Good ...

They develop personalities & behavioral patterns within context that reflect what is defined as “good” or “evil”.

 

[SweetSue92]

There are what appear to be necessary, natural passages in life. No one wants to see a child suffer anything, yet we cannot protect them from every sickness, for example. In fact, we know they need to be protected by their own body's defenses after exposure. It is unpleasant at the time, but is better in the long run.
Bullies and bullying are disgusting, but we have to learn to deal with adversity, even when that means simply enduring until it is finished. Bullies get bored after a while. After all, they are, by definition, not too bright.
Certainly, if it can be avoided, and even more, if it gets to a violent point, stepping in may be good. I remember one time in high school where I was cornered in a locker room exit stair well by a tough guy who just wanted to beat me up for his amusement. We were of the same skin color, so there was no 'racism' involved, I was just smaller and he was able. Just as he was about to start on me, out of the door came Maynard Scales, linebacker on the football team and as black as he was big. He saw immediately what was going on and told the bully that if anything happened to me for whatever reason, Maynard would be coming for him. I don't know why he did that, we weren't friends and I wasn't aware he knew I existed. I never spoke to him again. But, the bully never so much as looked at me after that.

FWIW I'm a teacher and have been teaching for a good long time. I think "bullying" is way, way overdone and like everything in 2018, everyone hyperventilates about it. Mostly parents, actually (but what's new these days).

We get reports at school re: "bullying" if one kid says to another "I don't like your shoes". Okay, that's not nice. But it's not bullying.

That said, true bullying is horrific and worse than ever because the bully has access to victim 24/7 through social media. But we need to define true bullying and what is not, tell everyone to chill the heck out.

As to the OP: in my opinion, evil people will use religion for evil means; good people will use it for good. Since I'm a Christian, I believe what C.S. Lewis said. Loosely, people born with great temperament might be wonderful people without Christ. People born with lousy temperament *with* Christ may be barely tolerable--but it might be impossible to know how bad they might have been without Christ.

 

[night_son]

My grand-daughter is being "bullied" in pre-school. Other little girls mock her because she was wait-listed for a field trip to an ice cream emporium. And that's not all. It is routine.

People are evil. Unless an intervening force turns them around (partly or entirely) they will lie, cheat, and steal according to (a) the chances that they will get caught, and (b) the likely ramifications of being caught. Call it "original sin" if you must.

Note that there is nothing virtuous about not doing wrong when the likelihood of being caught is high or the ramifications dire.

Look at situations, cultures, and environments where parenting is lacking and the kids almost all and almost always turn out bad. This is the endemic problem with mother-led, single-parent households and the boys that come out of them. There is no sufficiently strong influence to turn them away from their natural hedonistic, selfish, vicious tendencies.

Look around the world at all the Russian emigres who are involved in major crime organizations of all kinds. Russia just came out of a situation where kids were taken from their parents and raised by a godless state FOR GENERATIONS. Is it any wonder that they are at the forefront of porn, countless scams, and international cyber-crime?

We should always be on the lookout for people and groups of people who are conspicuously virtuous: people who have high ethical and moral standards, who do well in school, who are accomplished but modest, people who give time and money to charitable causes, regardless of whether there is a tax deduction coming. And ask yourself WHY these folks are extraordinary.

Usually, there is a religious tradition in the family. It's not a coincidence.

Never forget that people of similar groups constantly search the crowd for authority figures who could pose the risk of being obstacles to their freedom or threats to their long established self-image. Because people lie themselves into confidence with a years long narrative of what makes them better than other group members, an encounter with a possible authority obstacle triggers one or more of several reactions.

For most of us, the common reaction is avoiding eye contact, looking at the ground with head bowed, or physically retreating out of the way. Members of the next sub-group deal with authority by engaging it in conversation or targeted diversion, in order to see how the perceived 'superior' being reacts. The last sub-group will divide into two opposite but behaviorally similar sections. Both raise their head, make themselves look tall as possible, and seek and maintain eye contact with the authority figure.

Where these last two sections diverge is, the first section will physically standoff with authority and use violence only to defend self or other weaker individuals, while the second will use force--if he assesses doing so is favorable and convenient--to take the property, freedom or life from those weaker.

However, all of the above changes when sub-groups of individuals gather and act as one mind and body. In this situation, even a large group of weak individuals can be persuaded--either by themselves or a single stronger individual among them--to act against their inherent nature, or the self written narrative of their lives.

In this human behavioral system we see a hierarchy take shape, a system of instinctual social interaction perpetuated and defined by image of self and ancient instinct. Layers of the hierarchy are fluid and often shift in very brief periods of the real time, evolving in tandem with whatever scenario or situation arises.

In understanding this primal hierarchy, we can then examine your statement: "humans are intrinsically evil".

Predators namesake in the animal kingdom is opportunistic and situational. Tigers do not always kill the prey animals in proximity to them; they only do so some of the time, depending upon benefit to self--which is usually to satisfy physical hunger. Human predatorial behaviors are no different on the surface but depart from the tiger in the human tendency to crave satisfaction for needs beyond physical nourishment or mating.

Human beings are also social animals. Keeping the group hierarchy dynamic described above in mind, mention must be made of how humans, in a group setting, want instinctually to please other group members; to belong to a group with well defined and superior characteristics, and satisfy a need to better the group at the expense of other individuals or groups. Add into this mix the almost subconscious drive to take the easiest or safest path to achieving the most beneficial result.

Finally, speaking to the hierarchy, we humans are, concerning our natural behaviors, constantly handheld through life for the purpose of keeping those behaviors in check, by perpetual limitation and modification of our will. This begins with two parents at birth--mother and father--continues with older or younger siblings, teachers, school principals, guidance counselors, child psychiatrists perhaps and then, after adulthood, workplace management, law enforcement and the courts. Of course, by late adolescence society expects us to have begun to master self-editing of our own behaviors.

To finally answer your statement with proper attention, evil is situational--foremost. But it is more complicated than that. The lifelong narrative of necessary lies we repeat to ourselves like mantras to forge our confidence is another prime factor. As is the success or lack thereof of our parental figures and sociocultural form of parenting by the society and tradition. In some cultures sexual assault of the weaker is permissible, for example.

In closing, I disagree that humans are by primacy predisposed to evil behaviors. Much like predation, evil acts depend on motivation, situation, possible reward, group think, real past personal history and the fictional id we create for ourselves and many, many more characteristics and randomized possibilities. I would agree however, that defense of self or family for real or perceived threat is where much violence can originate, followed closely by desire to please the group, and then--in the human mind--to satisfy one of countless needs or urges.