Howard Zinn: A Communist and a Liar

[Dr Grump]

Of course. My oath would let me do nothing else. No matter how I feel personally about Obama, he is my President and my Commander in Chief. I'd rather die than violate my sacred oath and allow the nation to be plunged into such turmoil.

No president is worth dying for...

 

[georgephillip]

Of course. My oath would let me do nothing else. No matter how I feel personally about Obama, he is my President and my Commander in Chief. I'd rather die than violate my sacred oath and allow the nation to be plunged into such turmoil.

I was here when JFK died.
BHO is no JFK.
There would be no turmoil.
There would be a six-term Senator from Mastercard in the White House...

No turmoil? Horseshit. The left would claim it was a homegrown racist teabagger terrorist, and demand the rest of them be rounded up...and since they consider all teabaggers dangerous, racist, and violent, they'd demand ALL teabaggers be rounded up. And the fool Biden probably would.

Purely hypothetically...If Obama really is Wall Street's Chosen Vessel in the same sense as Hitler and Stalin, would your brain-dead obedience to legitimate authority still compel you to give your life for his?

 

[daveman]

Of course. My oath would let me do nothing else. No matter how I feel personally about Obama, he is my President and my Commander in Chief. I'd rather die than violate my sacred oath and allow the nation to be plunged into such turmoil.

No president is worth dying for...

America is.

 

[daveman]

I was here when JFK died.
BHO is no JFK.
There would be no turmoil.
There would be a six-term Senator from Mastercard in the White House...

No turmoil? Horseshit. The left would claim it was a homegrown racist teabagger terrorist, and demand the rest of them be rounded up...and since they consider all teabaggers dangerous, racist, and violent, they'd demand ALL teabaggers be rounded up. And the fool Biden probably would.

Purely hypothetically...If Obama really is Wall Street's Chosen Vessel in the same sense as Hitler and Stalin, would your brain-dead obedience to legitimate authority still compel you to give your life for his?

I'm not interested in playing in your feverish crack-fueled fantasies. Dumbass.

 

[georgephillip]

Of course. My oath would let me do nothing else. No matter how I feel personally about Obama, he is my President and my Commander in Chief. I'd rather die than violate my sacred oath and allow the nation to be plunged into such turmoil.

No president is worth dying for...

America is.

Now you're conflating America with Obama and Wall Street.

Even if you're not a chicken shit, you make up for it with stupidity.

Sieg Heil!

 

[georgephillip]

"As a renowned historian, he made no attempt to appear objective, indeed he though it impossible. In an opening section of "A People's History of the United States," he said he preferred "to tell the story of the discovery of American from the viewpoint of the Arawaks, of the Constitution from the standpoint of the slaves...the gilded age as seen by southern farmers.

Howard believed "our future was to be found in the past's fugitive moments of compassion rather than its solid centuries of warfare."

"Then, as only Howard Zinn can, he wrote, 'The reader may as well know that before going on.'"

Veterans for Peace

 

[asterism]

asterism: Why should I believe you spent eight years in the Marine Corps?

I asked you to define the terms for me to prove it to you. If it matters to you, offer some acceptable means for me to prove it to you.

You made the claim.

You supply the proof.

I'll let you know if I believe it or not.

You accept that Daveman is a career Air Force NCO. Do you accept his word?

 

[daveman]

No president is worth dying for...

America is.

Now you're conflating America with Obama and Wall Street.

Even if you're not a chicken shit, you make up for it with stupidity.

Sieg Heil!

I am not a chicken shit. Nor am I stupid. You, however, are both.

And if there's anything more fucking pathetic than a stupid coward, I don't know what it is.

You need to thank asterism. He swore the same oath I did. You know, the one that lets you hate America, love terrorists, and love Communism with absolutely no fear that you'll be arrested for your politics, unlike the regimes you admire so much.

Holy fuck, you're one stupid son of a bitch.

 

[georgephillip]

If you're confused about what's more pathetic than a stupid coward look in the closest mirror. You seem to think serving an empire that has killed millions of human beings for MONEY makes you special.

It makes you a brain-dead moral chicken shit slave, Dave.

 

[editec]

I knew Howie personally in the mid 1970s.

Took classes with him. Debated with him, argued with him.

I called him a sexist and racist a number of times in his classes, too because I thought he was a kneejerking liberal.

He took it in stride because he much didn't care what I though.

He was a kneejerking liberal and damned proud of it, too.

FYI, He was my girlfriend's academic advisor.

I don't doubt that back in the early 50s he was a communist.

But he certainly was not preaching communism in his classes by the mid 70s.

Mostly what he was doing was filling in gaps in history that he thought needed to be heard.

As to his most famous book?

That's not really a very good history in my opinion.

It's worth reading, certainly, but I'd describe it as more as political science pretending to be history than a serious historical exploration of our national identity.

There's no comparing Zinn to Chomsky, far as I'm concerned.

Chomsky is brilliant in a way Zinn or I are not.

Chomsky is a far better historican than Zinn was.

And Zinn never thought of himself as an historian, anyway, far as I could tell.

He was a partisan and made no bones about it.

 

[daveman]

If you're confused about what's more pathetic than a stupid coward look in the closest mirror. You seem to think serving an empire that has killed millions of human beings for MONEY makes you special.

It makes you a brain-dead chicken shit slave, Dave.

So, despite your earlier admission of wrongdoing, now I'm a chickenshit again.

What an irrational little turd you are.

I no longer accept your earlier apology. It was not sincere, and so is worthless.

Back to you, now. It's already been well established that you're a coward. Conversely, I have pledged to put my life on the line for a cause I believe in. What do you do?

You post on the internet.

Pathetic, whiny little child.

 

[georgephillip]

I knew Howie personally in the mid 1970s.

Took classes with him. Debated with him, argued with him.

I called him a sexist and racist a number of times in his classes, too because I thought he was a kneejerking liberal.

He took it in stride because he much didn't care what I though.

He was a kneejerking liberal and damned proud of it, too.

FYI, He was my girlfriend's academic advisor.

I don't doubt that back in the early 50s he was a communist.

But he certainly was not preaching communism in his classes by the mid 70s.

Mostly what he was doing was filling in gaps in history that he thought needed to be heard.

As to his most famous book?

That's not really a very good history in my opinion.

It's worth reading, certainly, but I'd describe it as more as political science pretending to be history than a serious historical exploration of our national identity.

There's no comparing Zinn to Chomsky, far as I'm concerned.

Chomsky is brilliant in a way Zinn or I are not.

Chomsky is a far better historican than Zinn was.

And Zinn never thought of himself as an historian, anyway, far as I could tell.

He was a partisan and made no bones about it.

Do you think Howard's most famous book captures the class aspect of US history?

When he talks of Maidson's fear of a "majority faction" in a nation where one percent of the population owns a third of the wealth and the rest of the wealth is distributed in a way designed to turn the remaining 99 percent against one another, is he not shedding historical light on our national identity?

I'm sure you're right about Chomsky.
If he ever starts spending winters in Pasadena, his intellectual and moral legacy will compare favorably to Einstein's, I believe.

 

[daveman]

Do you think Howard's most famous book captures the class aspect of US history?

When he talks of Maidson's fear of a "majority faction" in a nation where one percent of the population owns a third of the wealth and the rest of the wealth is distributed in a way designed to turn the remaining 99 percent against one another, is he not shedding historical light on our national identity?

I'm sure you're right about Chomsky.
If he ever starts spending winters in Pasadena, his intellectual and moral legacy will compare favorably to Einstein's, I believe.

Horseshit. Thanks to morons like you, Chomsky's gotten quite rich talking about the evils of capitalism.

He's playing you for a sucker, and you fall for it. Moron.

 

[georgephillip]

If you're confused about what's more pathetic than a stupid coward look in the closest mirror. You seem to think serving an empire that has killed millions of human beings for MONEY makes you special.

It makes you a brain-dead chicken shit slave, Dave.

So, despite your earlier admission of wrongdoing, now I'm a chickenshit again.

What an irrational little turd you are.

I no longer accept your earlier apology. It was not sincere, and so is worthless.

Back to you, now. It's already been well established that you're a coward. Conversely, I have pledged to put my life on the line for a cause I believe in. What do you do?

You post on the internet.

Pathetic, whiny little child.

Conversely, you have posted on the internet your pledge to put your life on the line for a cause you believe in. Wouldn't it be irrational for anyone to believe that?

I couldn't care less about your accepting my apology, slave.

You're too brainwashed to matter.

 

[georgephillip]

Do you think Howard's most famous book captures the class aspect of US history?

When he talks of Maidson's fear of a "majority faction" in a nation where one percent of the population owns a third of the wealth and the rest of the wealth is distributed in a way designed to turn the remaining 99 percent against one another, is he not shedding historical light on our national identity?

I'm sure you're right about Chomsky.
If he ever starts spending winters in Pasadena, his intellectual and moral legacy will compare favorably to Einstein's, I believe.

Horseshit. Thanks to morons like you, Chomsky's gotten quite rich talking about the evils of capitalism.

He's playing you for a sucker, and you fall for it. Moron.

Chomsky seems to believe that killing children for money is evil.

Do you agree?

 

[midcan5]

"If those in charge of our society - politicians, corporate executives, and owners of press and television - can dominate our ideas, they will be secure in their power. They will not need soldiers patrolling the streets. We will control ourselves." Howard Zinn


One of the truly good guys, an honest man. I'm always amazed that truth has so few friends. Because Zinn was honest about life and war he is disliked by those who live in myth.

For a sense of the man, a WWII veteran, and educator read this book: [ame=http://www.amazon.com/You-Cant-Neutral-Moving-Train/dp/0807071277/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8]Amazon.com: You Can't Be Neutral on a Moving Train: A Personal History of Our Times (9780807071274): Howard Zinn: Books[/ame]


If anyone is interested in learning a bit about McCarthyism and communism witch hunts, check out Manchester's "Glory and the Dream."

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_Fc5W8amYM]YouTube - Howard Zinn as seen on DEMOCRACY NOW[/ame]

 

[georgephillip]

"The rule of law does not do away with the unequal distribution of wealth and power, but reinforces that inequality with the authority of law. It allocates wealth and poverty in such calculated and indirect ways as to leave the victim bewildered."

The last three years of Wall Street trauma should ring a bell.

Howard comments:

"I grew up in a family of working-class immigrants, living in tenements in Brooklyn. Our living quarters were rather miserable and we kids spent most of our time out in the streets.

"It seemed natural that I should develop a certain class consciousness, an understanding that we live in a society of rich and poor, and whether you were rich or poor had nothing to do with how hard you worked."

Howard Zinn Biography

 

[daveman]

If you're confused about what's more pathetic than a stupid coward look in the closest mirror. You seem to think serving an empire that has killed millions of human beings for MONEY makes you special.

It makes you a brain-dead chicken shit slave, Dave.

So, despite your earlier admission of wrongdoing, now I'm a chickenshit again.

What an irrational little turd you are.

I no longer accept your earlier apology. It was not sincere, and so is worthless.

Back to you, now. It's already been well established that you're a coward. Conversely, I have pledged to put my life on the line for a cause I believe in. What do you do?

You post on the internet.

Pathetic, whiny little child.

Conversely, you have posted on the internet your pledge to put your life on the line for a cause you believe in. Wouldn't it be irrational for anyone to believe that?

Me. Iraq.

And your badge of courage? Your post count.

I couldn't care less about your accepting my apology, slave.

You seemed to care enough to make it. Of course, like anyone without a shred of integrity, you immediately shit all over it.

You're too brainwashed to matter.

Says the America-hating, terrorist-loving, Jew-hating troofer.

 

[daveman]

Do you think Howard's most famous book captures the class aspect of US history?

When he talks of Maidson's fear of a "majority faction" in a nation where one percent of the population owns a third of the wealth and the rest of the wealth is distributed in a way designed to turn the remaining 99 percent against one another, is he not shedding historical light on our national identity?

I'm sure you're right about Chomsky.
If he ever starts spending winters in Pasadena, his intellectual and moral legacy will compare favorably to Einstein's, I believe.

Horseshit. Thanks to morons like you, Chomsky's gotten quite rich talking about the evils of capitalism.

He's playing you for a sucker, and you fall for it. Moron.

Chomsky seems to believe that killing children for money is evil.

Do you agree?

Oh, spare me. You don't give a shit about children. You don't mind seeing dead Jewish children at all, you sick bastard.

 

[georgephillip]

Horseshit. Thanks to morons like you, Chomsky's gotten quite rich talking about the evils of capitalism.

He's playing you for a sucker, and you fall for it. Moron.

Chomsky seems to believe that killing children for money is evil.

Do you agree?

Oh, spare me. You don't give a shit about children. You don't mind seeing dead Jewish children at all, you sick bastard.

You don't seem to have an answer for this question:

How many children has the USAF murdered in the last two decades?

How much money have you earned from keeping the generators humming?

How much courage does it take to enable baby killlers?