Zone1 How we repair it: White Americans’ attitudes toward reparations

[MarcATL]

Except no one is seriously talking about it... it's a non-starter.

Not that you won't get upset at the mere notion, though.

I don't think cash reparations are the answer, but I do think that there SHOULD be formal apologies for Jim Crow and Slavery.

Why the apology though?

 

[LibertyKid]

Whites have received at least 8 handouts and today are asking for more. Therefore you really need to stop with the double standard.

When where and how?

Oh.. can you name something that a white person can do today that you can't because you're black?

 

[JoeB131]

Whites have received at least 8 handouts and today are asking for more. Therefore you really need to stop with the double standard.

Really, which handouts are those?

Seems to me that with programs like SNAP, Section 8, TANF, WIC, Medicare, Obamacare, you are getting plenty of "handouts" from the government.

We don't need "reparations", we need jobs where people are gainfully employed.

 

[JoeB131]

Why the apology though?

Because those things were wrong.

But a lot of things were wrong. Grandpa Ludwig being called a Kraut was wrong. You don't see me asking for reparations.

 

[MarcATL]

Because those things were wrong.

But a lot of things were wrong. Grandpa Ludwig being called a Kraut was wrong. You don't see me asking for reparations.

You're wrong Joe.

Your German ancestors did not have laws, local, state, nationwide or constitutionally that were against them.

Stop this comparison nonsense, there's just no comparison to the wrongs that were committed against Black Americans, simply for being Black Americans.

These things were legal AND cultural, and it occurred for 100s of years, and still persists to many degrees today.

No. Comparison. Stop it.

 

[Libby von H]

It seems that the concept of reparations is a problem. Apparently that is based on a lack of knowledge about history. Most just reflexively while not really knowing the iinformation that makes the case for reparations. So it appears that an education as to why reparations should be paid needs to happen and included is the information that can and will be used as part of the case.

The opposition to reparations being paid for something that happened 200 years ago is invalid, you will see why in a few seconds.

How we repair it: White Americans’ attitudes toward reparations​

The United States is again at a crossroads of racial reckoning. The death of George Floyd and the 2020 summer of protests for racial justice added new urgency to ongoing discussions about the legacy of slavery and its contemporary implications for the lives of Black Americans. A key question at the root of this discussion is: how do we repair the harm – economic, physical, and psychological — caused to Black lives by slavery, Jim Crow, redlining, police brutality, and other manifestations of systemic racism?
The United States has used reparations—targeted initiatives intended to concretely repair a harm against a person or persons resulting from the collective action of others—as a means of acknowledging and atoning for its role in other atrocities, including the internment of Japanese Americans and the forced removal and destruction of six indigenous communities: the Ottawas of Michigan, the Chippewas of Wisconsin, the Seminoles of Florida, the Sioux of South Dakota, the Klamaths of Oregon, and the Alaska Natives.* However, the descendants of Africans enslaved on U.S. soil have been notably absent from this history of reparative actions. While the task of reparations seems daunting to many Americans considering the scale of injustice presented by slavery and its aftermath, we believe this is a conversation the country needs to have.

Given that white Americans gained the most from slavery and its compounded effects — a process referred to as unjust enrichment – is their widespread opposition to reparations rooted in maintaining this advantage?

How we repair it: White Americans’ attitudes toward reparations | Brookings

Ashley V. Reichelmann and Matthew O. Hunt explore white Americans’ attitudes toward reparative policies and social factors affecting their views.

www.brookings.edu

1970: Richard Nixon signed into law House Resolution 471 restoring Blue Lake and surrounding area to the Taos Pueblo (New Mexico). The land had been taken by presidential order in 1906. (A History of the Indians in the United States by Angie Debo (Norman, OK: University of Oklahoma Press, 1984, p. 422); see also "Taos Pueblo celebrates 40th anniversary of Blue Lake's return" by Matthew van Buren, Santa Fe New Mexican, September 18, 2010.)

The payments from 1971-1988 are taken from the booklet Black Reparations Now! 40 Acres, $50 Dollars, and a Mule, + Interest by Dorothy Benton-Lewis; and borrowed from N’COBRA (National Coalition of Blacks for Reparations in America).

1971: Around $1 billion + 44 million acres of land: Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act.

1974: A $10 million out-of-court settlement was reached between the U.S. government and Tuskegee victims, black men who had been unwitting subjects of a study of untreated syphilis, and who did not receive available treatments. (“The Tuskegee Timeline”, CDC, updated March 2, 2020.)

1980: $81 million: Klamaths of Oregon. ("Spending Spree" by Dylan Darling, Herald and News (Klamath Falls, OR), June 21, 2005.)

1980: $105 million: Sioux of South Dakota for seizure of their land. (United States v. Sioux Nation of Indians, 448 U.S. 371 (1980).)

1985: $12.3 million: Seminoles of Florida. (see Racial Justice in America: A Reference Handbook by David B. Mustard, 2002, ABC-CLIO, p. 81.)

1985: $31 million: Chippewas of Wisconsin. (see Racial Justice in America: A Reference Handbook by David B. Mustard, 2002, ABC-CLIO, p. 81.)

1986: $32 million per 1836 Treaty: Ottawas of Michigan. (see Racial Justice in America: A Reference Handbook by David B. Mustard, 2002, ABC-CLIO, p. 81.)

2016: The U.S. government reached a settlement of $492 million with 17 Native American tribes to resolve lawsuits alleging the federal government mismanaged tribal land, resources, and money. (“U.S. Government To Pay $492 Million To 17 American Indian Tribes” by Rebecca Hersher, NPR, September 27, 2016.)

2018: The Supreme Court, in a 4-4 deadlock, let stand a lower court's order to the state of Washington to make billions of dollars worth of repairs to roads, where the state had built culverts below road channels and structures in a way that prevented salmon from swimming through and reaching their spawning grounds, that had damaged the state’s salmon habitats and contributed to population loss. The case involved the Stevens Treaties, a series of agreements in 1854-55, in which tribes in Washington State gave up millions of acres of land in exchange for "the right to take fish." Implicit in the treaties, courts would later rule, was a guarantee that there would be enough fish for the tribes to harvest. Destroying the habitat reduces the population and thus violates these treaties. This decision directly affects the Swinomish Tribe. ("A Victory For A Tribe That’s Lost Its Salmon" by John Eligon, The New York Times, June 12, 2018.)

Were any of you alive when those tribes were forcibly removed or cheated?

It seems you know nothing about Blacks, I don't take your picture as proof.
THREE HUGE errors that totally escape you

1) ABORTION Is what is killing the Black culture and Blacks are doing it to themselves (though racism is rife throughout Planned Parenthood)
"“Since the number of current living blacks(in the U.S.) is 31 million, the missing 10 million representsan enormous loss for, without abortion, America’s black community would now number 41 million persons. It wouldbe 35 percent larger than it is currently. Abortion has swept through the black community cutting down every fourth member."

2) "The historians John Thornton and Linda Heywood of Boston University estimate that 90 percent of those shipped to the New World were enslaved by Africans and then sold to European traders. The sad truth is that without complex business partnerships between African elites and European traders and commercial agents, the slave trade to the New World would have been impossible"

3) You are asking the same government that engineered the destruction of the Black Family (so said Sen Moynihan, a DEMOCRAT) to 'help'
Despite the grand myth that black economic progress began or accelerated with the passage of the civil rights laws and “war on poverty” programs of the 1960s, the cold fact is that the poverty rate among blacks fell from 87 percent in 1940 to 47 percent by 1960. This was before any of those programs began.

Over the next 20 years, the poverty rate among blacks fell another 18 percentage points, compared to the 40-point drop in the previous 20 years. This was the continuation of a previous economic trend, at a slower rate of progress, not the economic grand deliverance proclaimed by liberals and self-serving black “leaders.”

…..

Nearly a hundred years of the supposed “legacy of slavery” found most black children [78%] being raised in two-parent families in 1960. But thirty years after the liberal welfare state found the great majority of black children being raised by a single parent [66%].

================
You could not be a better enemy of Blacks than you are even if unwittingly

 

[JoeB131]

You're wrong Joe.

Your German ancestors did not have laws, local, state, nationwide or constitutionally that were against them.

Stop this comparison nonsense, there's just no comparison to the wrongs that were committed against Black Americans, simply for being Black Americans.

These things were legal AND cultural, and it occurred for 100s of years, and still persists to many degrees today.

No. Comparison. Stop it.

You do realize that Germans were severely discriminated against during World War I, right.

That in fact, the way the prohibitionists finally got the 18th Amendment under the wire was by playing on a lot of anti-German hysteria.

Anti-German Sentiment in America during WWI | Virtual exhibition

 

[JoeB131]

It seems you know nothing about Blacks, I don't take your picture as proof.
THREE HUGE errors that totally escape you

1) ABORTION Is what is killing the Black culture and Blacks are doing it to themselves (though racism is rife throughout Planned Parenthood)
"“Since the number of current living blacks(in the U.S.) is 31 million, the missing 10 million representsan enormous loss for, without abortion, America’s black community would now number 41 million persons. It wouldbe 35 percent larger than it is currently. Abortion has swept through the black community cutting down every fourth member."

Nonsense. Family planning is actually the best poverty relief program out there. The difference between a first world nation or community and a third world one is the ability to control when and under what circumstances you have a baby.

10 million more babies people can't afford would have driven that community deeper into poverty.

2) "The historians John Thornton and Linda Heywood of Boston University estimate that 90 percent of those shipped to the New World were enslaved by Africans and then sold to European traders. The sad truth is that without complex business partnerships between African elites and European traders and commercial agents, the slave trade to the New World would have been impossible"

More victim blaming. The demand for slaves in the New World created the slave trade economy in Africa.

3) You are asking the same government that engineered the destruction of the Black Family (so said Sen Moynihan, a DEMOCRAT) to 'help'
Despite the grand myth that black economic progress began or accelerated with the passage of the civil rights laws and “war on poverty” programs of the 1960s, the cold fact is that the poverty rate among blacks fell from 87 percent in 1940 to 47 percent by 1960. This was before any of those programs began.

Actually, this is a dishonest number. IN 1940, before WWII, the poverty rate for the whole country was 70%. World War II created economic demand first for war production and then for industrial production in a shattered post-war world (where the US had the only infrastructure still standing.) Whites climbed out of poverty and blacks were largely left behind, that was the problem. The Great Society closed that gap to where the black poverty rate is only 17% today.

Nearly a hundred years of the supposed “legacy of slavery” found most black children [78%] being raised in two-parent families in 1960. But thirty years after the liberal welfare state found the great majority of black children being raised by a single parent [66%].

Ah, not this crap again! The reality is that out of wedlock births have grown for all racial groups except Asian-Americans.

 

[Libby von H]

Boston University Public Interest Law Journal
Volume 29, Issue 135
Winter 2019
BLACK REPARATIONS FOR TWENTIETH CENTURY FEDERAL
HOUSING DISCRIMINATION:
THE CONSTRUCTION OF WHITE WEALTH AND THE EFFECTS OF
DENIED BLACK HOMEOWNERSHIP

This paper examines the U.S. government’s instigation, participation,authorization, and perpetuation of federal housing discrimination against black Americans from the 1930s to the 1980s and the damage that such discrimination caused and continues to cause today. Delving into the U.S. government’s twentieth century federal housing practices, this paper discusses how the government effectively barred black-Americans from obtaining quality housing and from investing in housing as wealth, while simultaneously subsidizing and endorsing white homeownership, white suburbs, and white wealth.

Part I examines the U.S. government’s housing practices—from the New Deal until the 1968 Fair Housing Act and its 1988 Amendments—to reveal that although the New Deal’s national housing programs revolutionized homeownership and home equity in the United States, the U.S. government’s federal housing programs were racially discriminatory. Specifically, and quite shockingly, the U.S. government actively created and promulgated racist neighborhood rating systems that constructed black neighborhoods and black property as unstable, volatile, hazardous, and not worthy of investment. Using these racist rating systems, the federal government endorsed racial covenants and invested federal money into the creation and accumulation of white wealth, the value of whiteness, white suburbia, and white homeownership. Meanwhile, the government denied blacks federal housing funding, fueling black stigma and barring black-Americans from the invaluable twentieth century opportunities of homeownership and home equity.

Understanding the U.S. government’s discriminatory housing practices, Part II discusses and quantifies the effects of the government’s housing discrimination on black-American households and communities. Finding that approximately 120 billion 1950s dollars--or more than 1.239 quintillion 2019 dollars—were invested to subsidize and create white-American wealth through homeownership...

Black Reparations for Twentieth Century Federal Housing Discrimination: The Construction of White Wealth and the Effects of Denied Black Homeownership

This year marks the 400th anniversary of the first documented arrival of Africans to the United States, which resulted in the enslavement of approximately 4 mil

deliverypdf.ssrn.com

But the most discriminatory were just passed and you say NOTHING.

Biden Raises Costs for Homebuyers With Good Credit to Help Risky Borrowers​

and of course that is destroying the market

 

[Libby von H]

Nonsense. Family planning is actually the best poverty relief program out there. The difference between a first world nation or community and a third world one is the ability to control when and under what circumstances you have a baby.

10 million more babies people can't afford would have driven that community deeper into poverty.



More victim blaming. The demand for slaves in the New World created the slave trade economy in Africa.



Actually, this is a dishonest number. IN 1940, before WWII, the poverty rate for the whole country was 70%. World War II created economic demand first for war production and then for industrial production in a shattered post-war world (where the US had the only infrastructure still standing.) Whites climbed out of poverty and blacks were largely left behind, that was the problem. The Great Society closed that gap to where the black poverty rate is only 17% today.


Ah, not this crap again! The reality is that out of wedlock births have grown for all racial groups except Asian-Americans.

This is all false, what he says. I worked in statistics and demographics. Look up what I said . You will see that he is even making fallacious arguments. So he says 'family planning is the best poverty relief..." He means abortion and you will say MANY Blacks now turning on that kind of racist talk, It's against the blacks and the poor mainly. And he knows it. But do the legwork. I've reseached this for over a decade

 

[Invisibleflash]

It seems that the concept of reparations is a problem. Apparently that is based on a lack of knowledge about history. Most just reflexively while not really knowing the iinformation that makes the case for reparations. So it appears that an education as to why reparations should be paid needs to happen and included is the information that can and will be used as part of the case.

The opposition to reparations being paid for something that happened 200 years ago is invalid, you will see why in a few seconds.

How we repair it: White Americans’ attitudes toward reparations​

The United States is again at a crossroads of racial reckoning. The death of George Floyd and the 2020 summer of protests for racial justice added new urgency to ongoing discussions about the legacy of slavery and its contemporary implications for the lives of Black Americans. A key question at the root of this discussion is: how do we repair the harm – economic, physical, and psychological — caused to Black lives by slavery, Jim Crow, redlining, police brutality, and other manifestations of systemic racism?
The United States has used reparations—targeted initiatives intended to concretely repair a harm against a person or persons resulting from the collective action of others—as a means of acknowledging and atoning for its role in other atrocities, including the internment of Japanese Americans and the forced removal and destruction of six indigenous communities: the Ottawas of Michigan, the Chippewas of Wisconsin, the Seminoles of Florida, the Sioux of South Dakota, the Klamaths of Oregon, and the Alaska Natives.* However, the descendants of Africans enslaved on U.S. soil have been notably absent from this history of reparative actions. While the task of reparations seems daunting to many Americans considering the scale of injustice presented by slavery and its aftermath, we believe this is a conversation the country needs to have.

Given that white Americans gained the most from slavery and its compounded effects — a process referred to as unjust enrichment – is their widespread opposition to reparations rooted in maintaining this advantage?

How we repair it: White Americans’ attitudes toward reparations | Brookings

Ashley V. Reichelmann and Matthew O. Hunt explore white Americans’ attitudes toward reparative policies and social factors affecting their views.

www.brookings.edu

1970: Richard Nixon signed into law House Resolution 471 restoring Blue Lake and surrounding area to the Taos Pueblo (New Mexico). The land had been taken by presidential order in 1906. (A History of the Indians in the United States by Angie Debo (Norman, OK: University of Oklahoma Press, 1984, p. 422); see also "Taos Pueblo celebrates 40th anniversary of Blue Lake's return" by Matthew van Buren, Santa Fe New Mexican, September 18, 2010.)

The payments from 1971-1988 are taken from the booklet Black Reparations Now! 40 Acres, $50 Dollars, and a Mule, + Interest by Dorothy Benton-Lewis; and borrowed from N’COBRA (National Coalition of Blacks for Reparations in America).

1971: Around $1 billion + 44 million acres of land: Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act.

1974: A $10 million out-of-court settlement was reached between the U.S. government and Tuskegee victims, black men who had been unwitting subjects of a study of untreated syphilis, and who did not receive available treatments. (“The Tuskegee Timeline”, CDC, updated March 2, 2020.)

1980: $81 million: Klamaths of Oregon. ("Spending Spree" by Dylan Darling, Herald and News (Klamath Falls, OR), June 21, 2005.)

1980: $105 million: Sioux of South Dakota for seizure of their land. (United States v. Sioux Nation of Indians, 448 U.S. 371 (1980).)

1985: $12.3 million: Seminoles of Florida. (see Racial Justice in America: A Reference Handbook by David B. Mustard, 2002, ABC-CLIO, p. 81.)

1985: $31 million: Chippewas of Wisconsin. (see Racial Justice in America: A Reference Handbook by David B. Mustard, 2002, ABC-CLIO, p. 81.)

1986: $32 million per 1836 Treaty: Ottawas of Michigan. (see Racial Justice in America: A Reference Handbook by David B. Mustard, 2002, ABC-CLIO, p. 81.)

2016: The U.S. government reached a settlement of $492 million with 17 Native American tribes to resolve lawsuits alleging the federal government mismanaged tribal land, resources, and money. (“U.S. Government To Pay $492 Million To 17 American Indian Tribes” by Rebecca Hersher, NPR, September 27, 2016.)

2018: The Supreme Court, in a 4-4 deadlock, let stand a lower court's order to the state of Washington to make billions of dollars worth of repairs to roads, where the state had built culverts below road channels and structures in a way that prevented salmon from swimming through and reaching their spawning grounds, that had damaged the state’s salmon habitats and contributed to population loss. The case involved the Stevens Treaties, a series of agreements in 1854-55, in which tribes in Washington State gave up millions of acres of land in exchange for "the right to take fish." Implicit in the treaties, courts would later rule, was a guarantee that there would be enough fish for the tribes to harvest. Destroying the habitat reduces the population and thus violates these treaties. This decision directly affects the Swinomish Tribe. ("A Victory For A Tribe That’s Lost Its Salmon" by John Eligon, The New York Times, June 12, 2018.)

Were any of you alive when those tribes were forcibly removed or cheated?

Reparations?

No concern at all.

I'm more concerned on how you repair the systemic criminal black community so they can be lived with in a peaceful America.

 

[there4eyeM]

The horrible mistake of maintaining slavery in the Republic led to the horrible resolution of the institution. The price in blood and treasure was enormous. If that payment then was not enough, handing out money today to people long removed from that institution certainly will not be enough, either.
The social programs provided for generations to the minority whose ancestors were affected by slavery don't seem to have solved things, either. So, money alone is clearly not the answer. The keystone would appear to be other than "giving a person a fish", but rather teaching useful skills.

 

[Toro]

I’m all for reparations. I need a new Rolls

Send me your money, honkies!

 

[BackAgain]

Reparations is a self-refuting silly notion.

 

[JoeB131]

This is all false, what he says. I worked in statistics and demographics. Look up what I said . You will see that he is even making fallacious arguments. So he says 'family planning is the best poverty relief..." He means abortion and you will say MANY Blacks now turning on that kind of racist talk, It's against the blacks and the poor mainly. And he knows it. But do the legwork. I've reseached this for over a decade

The only reason why blacks have more abortions is they don't have easy access to other forms of contraception.

Contraception is good. Family planning is the best poverty relief program out there.

 

[JoeB131]

But the most discriminatory were just passed and you say NOTHING.

Biden Raises Costs for Homebuyers With Good Credit to Help Risky Borrowers​

and of course that is destroying the market

Bullshit.

The last time I applied for a home loan in 2021, they gave me a fiscal colonoscopy.

 

[sparky]

show me when any 'reparation' has solved racism

~S~

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The only reason why blacks have more abortions is they don't have easy access to other forms of contraception.

Contraception is good. Family planning is the best poverty relief program out there.

Don't have access to contraception??

You're worse than IM2 for talking down expectations of blacks

 

[IM2]

Don't have access to contraception??

You're worse than IM2 for talking down expectations of blacks

You are stupid. There is no talking down of blacks done by me. But the racist makes ludicrous claims as he or she tries to gaslight.

 

[Toro]

It’s funny when old white MAGAtards tell blacks what’s good for them.

LOL