How to Win the Thanksgiving Day Political "Conversation"

[mudwhistle]

Food fights, dousing people with water and kicking them out by the side of the road is considered "civil"?

Conservatives seem to have trouble with what words actually mean.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Legally? Who cares.

Society.

No....It doesn't. Most of us do not want the government in charge of our defense against an attacker.

 

[Mac1958]

If someone tries to get political, we generally say something similar to "oh, shaddap and open up another bottle of wine."

Something like that.
.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Legally? Who cares.

Society.

No....It doesn't. Most of us do not want the government in charge of our defense against an attacker.

Actually most do, which is why we pay the police, and the military...

 

[pwjohn]

I hope everybody's having a great thanksgivings.

 

[pwjohn]

The way you defeat a liberal...use facts, the truth and reality...then they will call you names, tell you you want to have sex with your gun and throw their poo at you......

Funny, Tiny, you seem to like to ignore facts, or try to find alternative explanations for them.

How many Second Amendment Enthusiasts are oging to shoot family members during pointless arguments at thanksgiving, just like the Founding Fathers wanted.

Normal gun owners don't shoot people....the people who shoot other people have long histories of violence and criminal activity.....you can't seem to understand the difference...

Yeah pretty much.

 

[dannyboys]

I never begin political discussions with my less than reasonable relatives. I do, however, end them.

The story about the little girl punching the big guy out.....that was a lie. Nutbags can't help themselves.

Permanent Ignore

 

[LoneLaugher]

I never begin political discussions with my less than reasonable relatives. I do, however, end them.

The story about the little girl punching the big guy out.....that was a lie. Nutbags can't help themselves.

Permanent Ignore

I'm heartbroken.

 

[Boss]

Love how this thread was turned into a debate on gun control. But this is typical of liberals. Someone said earlier, liberals think conversation equals evil... not true... "Conversation" means you sit down and shut up and let the liberal tell you how things are and if you don't, you're a racist bigot.

On the positive side, I made it through Thanksgiving dinner without having to hurl mashed potatoes at anyone... so there is hope for the world after all.

 

[2aguy]

They actually stop some pregnancies....background checks don't stop any criminals from getting guns....see the difference?

They stop them from getting them legally...

They can't get the legally, they are prohibited by law from buying guns.....

 

[2aguy]

They actually stop some pregnancies....background checks don't stop any criminals from getting guns....see the difference?

They stop them from getting them legally...

Legally? Who cares. They are criminals. They are not interested in the laws.
Do you really think that Congress passing a law banning the private ownership would solve anything?
Don't be stupid. All that would create ( Prohibition is a fine example) a black market.

In my version of gun control if you aren't in uniform and you have a gun in your hands, you are good as dead, no questions asked. Will there be a few gun deaths, yep, like Japan which would mean seven a year here. Perfectly workable.

And, people need booze, they do not need guns.

Yes...the Germans, Russians, Chinese, Japanese, Italians, Cubans and Cambodians shared your view on gun control......and they wracked up close to 100 million murdered people....

 

[EverCurious]

I'm just wondering what the fuck on this stuff... Our holiday conversations are about our vacations, our projects, and future plans, the latest car/snow machine/boat/fishing reel, or w/e we bought/tested out, new toys and gadgets/cellphones/etc. I can't actually say that we have /ever/ had a political debate of any sort over family dinner, not that it's forbidden or anything, just it's never come up... I think the closest we've ever come was about the war in the ME when Father lost some of his boys over there, and that was a prayer for their families so I don't think that counts. I mean maybe if you count Mr. Nelson, whom I call the most interesting man in the world, who recounts amazing stories from his worldly travels - he was a traveling priest and fell in love with traveling so he still globe trots and learns the most fascinating stuff you'd never know about, but there's no debate in there - it's mostly all of us raptly listening to his tales and exploits heh

 

[PaintMyHouse]

They actually stop some pregnancies....background checks don't stop any criminals from getting guns....see the difference?

They stop them from getting them legally...

Legally? Who cares. They are criminals. They are not interested in the laws.
Do you really think that Congress passing a law banning the private ownership would solve anything?
Don't be stupid. All that would create ( Prohibition is a fine example) a black market.

In my version of gun control if you aren't in uniform and you have a gun in your hands, you are good as dead, no questions asked. Will there be a few gun deaths, yep, like Japan which would mean seven a year here. Perfectly workable.

And, people need booze, they do not need guns.

Yes...the Germans, Russians, Chinese, Japanese, Italians, Cubans and Cambodians shared your view on gun control......and they wracked up close to 100 million murdered people....

Guns don't protect liberty. For example, Hitler was anti-gun only for Jews, but he was anti-Jew.

 

[JoeB131]

Nope.....people who shoot other people with guns are not normal people.....studies on the topic have for decades shown that these shooters have long histories of anti social behavior, and violent criminal records......normal people who own guns do not shoot people over dinner or at car accidents.......

The myth of the normal person who buys a gun and then turns into a murderer are just that....myths of the anti gun extremists.......

Yeah, not really.

Video captures deadly brawl in Walmart parking lot

 

[2aguy]

Nope.....people who shoot other people with guns are not normal people.....studies on the topic have for decades shown that these shooters have long histories of anti social behavior, and violent criminal records......normal people who own guns do not shoot people over dinner or at car accidents.......

The myth of the normal person who buys a gun and then turns into a murderer are just that....myths of the anti gun extremists.......

Yeah, not really.

Video captures deadly brawl in Walmart parking lot

Yeah....here is the truth and reality......

Most murder victims in big cities have criminal record

A review of murder statistics across America shows that in many large cities, up to 90 percent of the victims have criminal records.
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The report concludes that “of the 2011 homicide victims, 77 percent (66) had a least one prior arrest and of the known 2011 homicide suspects 90 percent (74) had at least one prior arrest.”
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In early 2012, after pressure put on the police by murder victims’ families in New Orleans, the police department stopped revealing whether or not the murder victim had a prior record.

---------------

Though data is no longer published in Baltimore, USA Today reported in 2007 that 91 percent of the then-205 murder victims in the city between Jan. 1 and Aug. 31, 2007, had criminal records.

---------
A WND review of the Philadelphia Police Department Murder and Shooting Analysis for 2011 shows a similar pattern to that of other large cities in America – a majority of the murder victims have prior records.



--------
In Philadelphia in 2011, of 324 murders, 81 percent (263) of the victims had at least one prior arrest; 62 percent (164) had been arrested for a violent crime prior to their murder.

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In Newark, N.J., long considered one of America’s most dangerous cities, 85 percent of the 165 murder victims between 2009 and 2010 had serious arrest histories.

Anthony Braga, a professor with the Rutgers-Newark School of Criminal Justice, told the Newark Star-Ledger that 85 percent of 165 murder victims in Newark between 2009 and 2010 had been arrested at least once before they were killed.

Those victims, he said, had, on average, 10 prior arrests on their criminal records.

A WND review of the Chicago Police Department Murder Analysis reports from 2003 to 2011 provides a statistical breakdown of the demographics of both the victims and offenders in the 4,265 murders in Chicago over that time period.

Of the victims of murder in Chicago from 2003 to 2011, an average of 77 percent had a prior arrest history, with a high of 79 percent of the 436 murdered in Chicago in 2010 having arrest histories.



***************
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Public Health Pot Shots

this article goes at kellerman extensively and his crap research.....and here is some work on who actually kills people...


These and other studies funded by the CDC focus on the presence or absence of guns, rather than the characteristics of the people who use them. Indeed, the CDC's Rosenberg claims in the journalEducational Horizons that murderers are "ourselves--ordinary citizens, professionals, even health care workers": people who kill only because a gun happens to be available. Yet if there is one fact that has been incontestably established by homicide studies, it's that murderers are not ordinary gun owners but extreme aberrants whose life histories include drug abuse, serious accidents, felonies, and irrational violence.



Unlike "ourselves," roughly 90 percent of adult murderers have significant criminal records, averaging an adult criminal career of six or more years with four major felonies.

Access to juvenile records would almost certainly show that the criminal careers of murderers stretch back into their adolescence. In Murder in America (1994), the criminologists Ronald W. Holmes and Stephen T. Holmes report that murderers generally "have histories of committing personal violence in childhood, against other children, siblings, and small animals." Murderers who don't have criminal records usually have histories of psychiatric treatment or domestic violence that did not lead to arrest.

Contrary to the impression fostered by Rosenberg and other opponents of gun ownership, the term "acquaintance homicide" does not mean killings that stem from ordinary family or neighborhood arguments. Typical acquaintance homicides include: an abusive man eventually killing a woman he has repeatedly assaulted; a drug user killing a dealer (or vice versa) in a robbery attempt; and gang members, drug dealers, and other criminals killing each other for reasons of economic rivalry or personal pique.



According to a 1993 article in the Journal of Trauma, 80 percent of murders in Washington, D.C., are related to the drug trade, while "84% of [Philadelphia murder] victims in 1990 had antemortem drug use or criminal history."

A 1994 article in The New England Journal of Medicinereported that 71 percent of Los Angeles children and adolescents injured in drive-by shootings "were documented members of violent street gangs." And University of North Carolina-Charlotte criminal justice scholars Richard Lumb and Paul C. Friday report that 71 percent of adult gunshot wound victims in Charlotte have criminal records.



Gangs in Fort Meyers Florida...



NBC2 Investigates: Gangs in Southwest Florida



The City of Fort Myers has been plagued with violence and murder. NBC2 Investigator Dave Elias dug deeper and found that drugs, crime and gangs are the common elements between those killings.

Lee County Sheriff Mike Scott says the three go hand-in-hand and all appear to be playing a big role in the city's crime problem.

"They're punks. They're criminals. And in most cases – cowards," said Sheriff Scott.

He also explained that gang members live by a much different set of rules.

"We're at a more violent time right now than at any time I recall," said Sheriff Scott. "You're talking about an area that - per capita - is on par with Detroit Michigan, in terms of homicides."

There were 25 murders in Fort Myers alone last year. And Sheriff Scott says all of the killings have those three things in common – drugs, crime and gangs.

"In most every case this is criminal killing criminal. This is bad guy on bad guy," he said.



********************************

The Kate and Mauser study.......



http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf

I. VIOLENCE: THE DECISIVENESS OF SOCIAL FACTORS
One reason the extent of gun ownership in a society does not spur the murder rate is that murderers are not spread evenly throughout the population. Analysis of perpetrator studies shows that violent criminals—especially murderers—“almost uniformly have a long history of involvement in criminal behav‐ ior.”37 So it would not appreciably raise violence if all law‐ abiding, responsible people had firearms because they are not the ones who rape, rob, or murder.38 By the same token, violent crime would not fall if guns were totally banned to civilians. As the respective examples of Luxembourg and Russia suggest,39 individuals who commit violent crimes will either find guns despite severe controls or will find other weapons to use. 40
--------------------------



III. DO ORDINARY PEOPLE MURDER?

The “more guns equal more death” mantra seems plausible only when viewed through the rubric that murders mostly in‐ volve ordinary people who kill because they have access to a firearm when they get angry. If this were true, murder might well increase where people have ready access to firearms, but the available data provides no such correlation. Nations and


areas with more guns per capita do not have higher murder rates than those with fewer guns per capita.53

Nevertheless, critics of gun ownership often argue that a “gun in the closet to protect against burglars will most likely be used to shoot a spouse in a moment of rage . . . . The problem is you and me—law‐abiding folks;”54 that banning handgun posses‐ sion only for those with criminal records will “fail to protect us from the most likely source of handgun murder: ordinary citi‐ zens;”55 that “most gun‐related homicides . . . are the result of impulsive actions taken by individuals who have little or no criminal background or who are known to the victims;”56 that “the majority of firearm homicide[s occur] . . . not as the result of criminal activity, but because of arguments between people who know each other;”57 that each year there are thousands of gun murders “by law‐abiding citizens who might have stayed law‐abiding if they had not possessed firearms.”58

These comments appear to rest on no evidence and actually con‐ tradict facts that have so uniformly been established by homicide studies dating back to the 1890s that they have become “crimino‐ logical axioms.”59 Insofar as studies focus on perpetrators, they show that neither a majority, nor many, nor virtually any murder‐ ers are ordinary “law‐abiding citizens.”60

Rather, almost all mur‐ derers are extremely aberrant individuals with life histories of violence, psychopathology, substance abuse, and other dangerous behaviors. “The vast majority of persons involved in life‐ threatening violence have a long criminal record with many prior contacts with the justice system.”61 “Thus homicide—[whether] of a

stranger or [of] someone known to the offender—‘is usually part of a pattern of violence, engaged in by people who are known . . . as violence prone.’”62
Though only 15% of Americans over the age of 15 have arrest records,63 approximately 90 percent of “adult mur‐ derers have adult records, with an average adult criminal career [involving crimes committed as an adult rather than a child] of six or more years, including four major adult felony arrests.”64
These national statistics dovetail with data from local nineteenth and twentieth century studies. For example: victims as well as offenders [in 1950s and 1960s Philadelphia murders] . . . tended to be people with prior police records, usually for violent crimes such as as‐ sault.”65
“The great majority of both perpetrators and victims of [1970s Harlem] assaults and murders had previous [adult] arrests, probably over 80% or more.”66 Boston police and probation officers in the 1990s agreed that of those juvenile‐perpetrated murders where all the facts were known, virtually all were committed by gang members, though the killing was not necessarily gang‐ directed. 67 One example would be a gang member who stabs his girlfriend to death in a fit of anger.68 Regardless of their arrests for other crimes, 80% of 1997 Atlanta murder arrestees had at least one earlier drug offense with 70% having 3 or more prior drug of‐ fenses.69
A New York Times study of the 1,662 murders committed in that city in the years 2003–2005 found that “[m]ore than 90 percent of the killers had criminal records.”70 Baltimore police figures show that “92 percent of murder suspects had [prior] criminal records in 2006.”71 Several of the more recent homicide studies just reviewed

 

[BULLDOG]

You should be proud.You made a young girl cry at Thanksgiving. Any crazy right winger would be proud of that..

She is a grown woman of 31 years. She decided she could go into the ring. She decided to flail away with talking points. I simply held my ground. She got pissed off and lost it. Not my problem.
What? I'm supposed to back off my principles why another person gets to shout like a banshee expecting everyone else to just shut up?....
I ended the conversation. THAT is when she became angry and decided to throw herself a pity party figuring the water works would gain sympathy.
Here's a tissue for your issue.

Good for you. Do you kick puppies to make yourself feel powerful too?

That nonsense doesn't assist your argument either.
try again.

No argument here. I'm just impressed with how macho you are.

No "macho" here. Just standing my ground. If that offends you, then you'll just have to be pissed off. Deal with it.

Who said I was offended? I wasn't there, and I don't even know the young girl that you made cry. I'm sure that is the kind of incident that most right wingers hope for at a holiday celebration.

 

[candycorn]

Once again, the militant liberals are rolling out the tactical assault for Thanksgiving Day with the family. They are instructing their warriors to take advantage of this opportunity of family gathering to promote the liberal agenda and bash conservatism. Complete with a list of tips and suggestions, they will undoubtedly be armed and ready for battle when you arrive for the annual feast.

Many conservatives are passive on this, preferring to keep their opinions to themselves and not be confrontational. It's sometimes easier to just bite your tongue and let your liberal relative get it out of their system so everyone can get back to watching football and planning Black Friday shopping sprees. Of course, the militant liberals are counting on this complacent behavior in hopes of making some headway pushing their agenda.

I have come up with a plan and I encourage all my fellow conservatives to help me spread the word. When you find yourself sitting at the table trying to enjoy the feast and your flaming liberal cousin starts ranting... quietly take your spoon and scoop up a nice clump of mashed potatoes and catapult them into their face without saying a word. If you've already eaten and you're sitting in the den when the "conversation" begins, quietly get up, go to the kitchen and get a glass of ice water. Approach the offending cousin casually and dump the water on their head as they are reeling off talking points. Finally, if you are already in the car travelling to the Black Friday sales and they start their rant... pull over, go around to their side, open the door and snatch them out by the hair of the head and leave them sitting on the side of the road.

No need for confrontation, no need to engage in pointless debate, no need to let them mess up a beautiful moment with your family. We do not have to tolerate this. I have found that, as juvenile as it sounds, a nice clump of mashed potatoes to the face is unexpected. They don't know how to deal with it. If they continue to rant, pummel them with dinner rolls until they shut the fuck up.

If we conservatives all stick together with this plan we can return civility to family holidays.

Basically your strategy is if someone disagrees with you, simply state that you hope they get raped, right?

 

[candycorn]

The way you defeat a liberal...use facts, the truth and reality...then they will call you names, tell you you want to have sex with your gun and throw their poo at you......

Funny, Tiny, you seem to like to ignore facts, or try to find alternative explanations for them.

How many Second Amendment Enthusiasts are oging to shoot family members during pointless arguments at thanksgiving, just like the Founding Fathers wanted.

Fact. We have thousands of gun deaths, Europe has hundreds. Fact, we are wrong, they are right. Unless you like gun deaths:

 

[Searcher44]

Once again, the militant liberals are rolling out the tactical assault for Thanksgiving Day with the family. They are instructing their warriors to take advantage of this opportunity of family gathering to promote the liberal agenda and bash conservatism. Complete with a list of tips and suggestions, they will undoubtedly be armed and ready for battle when you arrive for the annual feast.

Many conservatives are passive on this, preferring to keep their opinions to themselves and not be confrontational. It's sometimes easier to just bite your tongue and let your liberal relative get it out of their system so everyone can get back to watching football and planning Black Friday shopping sprees. Of course, the militant liberals are counting on this complacent behavior in hopes of making some headway pushing their agenda.

I have come up with a plan and I encourage all my fellow conservatives to help me spread the word. When you find yourself sitting at the table trying to enjoy the feast and your flaming liberal cousin starts ranting... quietly take your spoon and scoop up a nice clump of mashed potatoes and catapult them into their face without saying a word. If you've already eaten and you're sitting in the den when the "conversation" begins, quietly get up, go to the kitchen and get a glass of ice water. Approach the offending cousin casually and dump the water on their head as they are reeling off talking points. Finally, if you are already in the car travelling to the Black Friday sales and they start their rant... pull over, go around to their side, open the door and snatch them out by the hair of the head and leave them sitting on the side of the road.

No need for confrontation, no need to engage in pointless debate, no need to let them mess up a beautiful moment with your family. We do not have to tolerate this. I have found that, as juvenile as it sounds, a nice clump of mashed potatoes to the face is unexpected. They don't know how to deal with it. If they continue to rant, pummel them with dinner rolls until they shut the fuck up.

If we conservatives all stick together with this plan we can return civility to family holidays.

I was wrong a few days ago when I called you a phony. We don't call an actor a phony for playing his part in a play. The posts of yours I've seen are like mini-plays, this one's kind of a darker, meaner "August: Osage County", eh?. Is your leading role supposed to be a hyperbolic Donald Trump type or just an amalgamation of archetypically offensive right wing nut-jobs? You've over-written this role though, even you're not that big of an asshole. I think.

 

[candycorn]

Once again, the militant liberals are rolling out the tactical assault for Thanksgiving Day with the family. They are instructing their warriors to take advantage of this opportunity of family gathering to promote the liberal agenda and bash conservatism. Complete with a list of tips and suggestions, they will undoubtedly be armed and ready for battle when you arrive for the annual feast.

Many conservatives are passive on this, preferring to keep their opinions to themselves and not be confrontational. It's sometimes easier to just bite your tongue and let your liberal relative get it out of their system so everyone can get back to watching football and planning Black Friday shopping sprees. Of course, the militant liberals are counting on this complacent behavior in hopes of making some headway pushing their agenda.

I have come up with a plan and I encourage all my fellow conservatives to help me spread the word. When you find yourself sitting at the table trying to enjoy the feast and your flaming liberal cousin starts ranting... quietly take your spoon and scoop up a nice clump of mashed potatoes and catapult them into their face without saying a word. If you've already eaten and you're sitting in the den when the "conversation" begins, quietly get up, go to the kitchen and get a glass of ice water. Approach the offending cousin casually and dump the water on their head as they are reeling off talking points. Finally, if you are already in the car travelling to the Black Friday sales and they start their rant... pull over, go around to their side, open the door and snatch them out by the hair of the head and leave them sitting on the side of the road.

No need for confrontation, no need to engage in pointless debate, no need to let them mess up a beautiful moment with your family. We do not have to tolerate this. I have found that, as juvenile as it sounds, a nice clump of mashed potatoes to the face is unexpected. They don't know how to deal with it. If they continue to rant, pummel them with dinner rolls until they shut the fuck up.

If we conservatives all stick together with this plan we can return civility to family holidays.

I was wrong a few days ago when I called you a phony. We don't call an actor a phony for playing his part in a play. The posts of yours I've seen are like mini-plays, this one's kind of a darker, meaner "August: Osage County", eh?. Is your leading role supposed to be a hyperbolic Donald Trump type or just an amalgamation of archetypically offensive right wing nut-jobs? You've over-written this role though, even you're not that big of an asshole. I think.

It's like watching American Dad and his alien friend