How the Christian Right's Homophobia Scares Away Religious Young People

[Katzndogz]

Christianty is not a popularity contest, nor should it change by virtue of opinion. Anyone who does not believe what the Bible says is perfectly within their rights, they just aren't Christians. It's like saying "I'm Christian, I just don't believe in the divinity of Christ." Or, "I'm muslim, I just don't buy into the Koran being the Word of Allah."

If young people are being driven from Christianty by the Bible's admonitions against homosexuality it is not the Christian religion that must change to conform to some common whim.

You are absolutely right. So....true Christians will not care if their church attendance goes down.

BTW, that's what happens anyways when you live somewhere where peer pressure or the pressure of the law no longer MAKES people go to church.

No. True Christians won't care if the attendance at their chuch goes down. Otherwise, the most popular Churches will be handing out doobies as a sacrament and having sex on the altar. I don't know of a single community that has a law that makes people go to Church. If peer pressure is forcing you into pews agaisnt your will, then you are an extraordinarly weak person. That said, IF someone is attending a house of worship because of peer pressure and not because they believe in the religion, they cannot claim that they are an adherent of that religion. At best they are an unwilling participant in some religious excercise that they don't believe in. I once went to a football game. I don't like football. I went to accompany a friend that asked me to go. I would not presume to demand that football change its method of game play to make it more interesting to me, nor would I now claim that I was a fan.

 

[bodecea]

3) You're full of shit, because I have never told anyone that they are wrong and I am right.
Like you, I can only voice my opinions.

This thread is in the Religion/ethics sub-forum, Kevin.
No mention of liberty and freedom, like you would find in the Politics sub-forum.

Where have I attempted to interfere with anyone's rights or freedoms?

You've not made a choice, I've noticed. His question struck too close to home, I wager.

I didn't realize I was required to choose.
Because someone at a keyboard, somewhere, said I should.

I think you know enough about me to know that 2) is the only logical choice.

But this thread isn't about politics or the political debate surrounding gay marriage or gay rights.

It's a religious topic on whether the church's stance on homosexuality is driving young people away from the church.

All of our different churches have their own doctrines.

If they choose to not allow homosexuals into their fold and, as a result, it drives others away then they have made their choice.
Chances are the people they drove away are people that didn't belong there in the first place, if they would choose the ways of the world over the ways of their promised Kingdom.

Well, good then

 

[Dr.Drock]

Nothing short of an incredible miracle could sway you, I think, Drock.
Even then you'd probably try to explain it as something else.

Well done avoiding the question. I'd avoid it too if those were my beliefs.

Nope all I need are facts or evidence. I have no moral issue whatsoever believing in a god or gods.

Avoiding a question is allowed when it is a bullshit question.

As much as it may bother you to hear, YES, "babies are born with terminal illnesses and die slow painful deaths" is all a product of original sin.

Like I said, we were created perfect. We lived for hundreds and hundreds of years.
Sin and any number of man-made garbage has deteriorated us through the ages.

Thank you for answering the question.

I expect hypersensitivity from people when talking about religion, so the insults when asking a simple question I expect. So no worries there.

 

[bodecea]

Christianty is not a popularity contest, nor should it change by virtue of opinion. Anyone who does not believe what the Bible says is perfectly within their rights, they just aren't Christians. It's like saying "I'm Christian, I just don't believe in the divinity of Christ." Or, "I'm muslim, I just don't buy into the Koran being the Word of Allah."

If young people are being driven from Christianty by the Bible's admonitions against homosexuality it is not the Christian religion that must change to conform to some common whim.

You are absolutely right. So....true Christians will not care if their church attendance goes down.

BTW, that's what happens anyways when you live somewhere where peer pressure or the pressure of the law no longer MAKES people go to church.

No. True Christians won't care if the attendance at their chuch goes down.

Isn't that what I said?

Otherwise, the most popular Churches will be handing out doobies as a sacrament and having sex on the altar. I don't know of a single community that has a law that makes people go to Church. If peer pressure is forcing you into pews agaisnt your will, then you are an extraordinarly weak person.

There are a LOT of weak people in the United States.

That said, IF someone is attending a house of worship because of peer pressure and not because they believe in the religion, they cannot claim that they are an adherent of that religion.

That's why there are not that many REAL Christians in America....IMO.

At best they are an unwilling participant in some religious excercise that they don't believe in. I once went to a football game. I don't like football. I went to accompany a friend that asked me to go. I would not presume to demand that football change its method of game play to make it more interesting to me, nor would I now claim that I was a fan.

Interesting analogy....who is presuming to DEMAND that football (or religion) change its method of game play (good comparison) to make it more interesting?

 

[Katzndogz]

There are various sects of the Christian religion that do not have prohibitions against homosexuality. Anyone can join one of these Churches, or found another one all together. If there are sects that demand snake handling as a precept of their religion there is no problem whatsoever with practicing homosexuals. The problem is when someone who is clearly not a Catholic, nor an Evangelical starts demanding that these religions change to include something they absolutely reject. It makes as much sense as a Pentecostal snake handler demanding that the Catholic Bishop include snake handling rituals in the next Mass or they are victims of discrimination. Go. Do something else. Be something else. If the Catholic Church, Evangelical Church, Synagogue or Mosque loses membership its simply none of your business.

 

[koshergrl]

Not an idiot. A liar.

 

[Newby]

The Bible mentions homosexuality in Leviticus twice and in Romans once, but homosexuality is not part of the 10 Commandments. Why don't y'all worry more about those who lie, cheat on their spouses, or steal? And with all the attention Jesus put on loving others and not judging, how can you be so hateful?

Seriously, why do you focus so much on homosexuality when there are much bigger problems to work on? In my opinion, that's part of why young folk are turning away from organized religion. Too many people are cherry-picking verses in the Good News to support their hate, and that makes the whole religious community look hypocritical.

I agree with you that there are more important things to worry about, and I agree that any one sin is just as bad as any other, but the accusation of 'hate' is not accurate. Everyone sins, there is not one person who does not. It's not out of 'hate' that the Christian community tries to practice what they believe God has told them too. I also think that Jesus spoke of the 'world', which was separate from living in Christ, and that Christians should focus mostly on themselves following Christ's examples and helping others. Some see 'helping others' as showing them where they think they're going wrong, and what they need to change to be saved or to walk with Christ. Christ told the woman at the well, who was a prostitute, to 'go and sin no more', not to just 'do what you want' and everything will be fine. It's about walking towards a relationship with God and not away. Christians believe that gay people are 'walking away'. I don't necessarily agree with that, it's a difficult topic, but I don't think for the majority of Christians that it's at all about 'hating' anyone.

 

[bodecea]

Not an idiot. A liar.

Ah, good. Your first step towards healing is self-realization. I applaud you. It had to be tough to admit that.

 

[Newby]

Good song that fits the questions herein.

Don Francisco - Steeple Song - YouTube

I don't care how many buses you own
Or the size of your sanctuary
It doesn't matter how steep your steeple is
If it's sittin' on a cemetery
I don't care if you pave your parking lot
Or put pads upon your pews
What good is picture perfect stage
If you're missin' all the cues?

I don't care if your pastor's super-powered
And your program's always new
What you need is love and truth
And men are going to come to you
It doesn't matter that you know the Bible
If it's all just in your head
The thing I need to ask you is
Have you done the things I said?

Do you love your wife?
For her and for your children
Are you layin' down your life?
What about the others?
Are you livin' as a servant to
Your sisters and your brothers?
Do you make the poor man beg you for a bone?
Do the widow and the orphan cry alone?

I don't care if you pray for miracles
I don't care if you speak with tongues
I don't care if you said you love Me
In every song you've sung
It doesn't matter that your sacrifice of praise
Is loud enough to raise the dead
The thing I need to ask you is
Have you done the things I said?

Lord, when were You a prisoner
That we did not come to You?
When was it that we saw You sick
That we didn't follow through
Every time you turned your head
And pretended not to see
When you did it not to the least of these
You did it not to Me

Good song...

But, Christians could be the most humble and helpful people on the planet, which they should be, but even if they all were, it still wouldn't change the fact that sin is sin, and the world is the world. You have to repent and walk away from it just as Christ instructed. Personally, I believe you know in your heart when you're doing wrong and when you're not, and I think it's a personal/individual choice and not really up to anyone else to judge. In the end, it will be between you and God.

 

[Newby]

Homosexuals are born that way. Does that mean they are part of God's creation? I'd say so, meaning they are not abomination.

We were created perfect and in His image.

Cancer or the Flu or acne or moles or even homosexuality wasn't part of that original creation.

I think what it comes down to is this:

Either…

1.) You’re a know it all who thinks that you’re smarter than everyone, and live only to force your personal values upon the entire population (regardless of what anyone else thinks or has to say about it).

or

2.) Trust the virtue of liberty and freedom and let other individuals live their lives in any way they like, so long as they’re not infringing on your personal rights.


Which option do you choose?

And that philosophy can be directed at both sides of the political spectrum quite equally.

 

[theHawk]

Why would "religious young people" be scared away by anything about homosexuality. If they are religious then they would know that homosexuality is a sin, and should be discouraged and not condoned.

If there is any "hate" on display, its by anti-Christian and anti-religous folks like yourself who attack people for their religious beliefs that have been in place for thousands of years.

Let’s put it this way; if Christians stuck to preaching just the teachings of Christ – the man – I think they would attract a whole lot more young people than they are currently. Christ was a beautiful person that taught people to live humbly, love their neighbors, and forgive. Great stuff.

However for many “Christians” today, the #1 focus (in the public sphere) is obsessively talking about how sinful the gay lifestyle is. And this is especially curious, because Christ himself never really preached on the topic, nor did he seem overly concerned.

Personally, I think he was much more focused on helping people and improving the world, vs spending all of his time and energy preventing people from being able to file joint taxes.

Just my take, though...


.

Actually Jesus talked quite a bit about marriage, adultry, and fornication. Concerning marriage He always gave examples of a man and his wife. Never a man and another man. He spoke of the sin of adultry (concerning married husbands and wives), as well as the sin of fornication (all other immoral sexual acts outside of a marriage between a man and women). Homosexuality easily falls into the fornication area and is considered a sin.

To suggest that Jesus in any way condoned homosexuality just because he didn't specifically give an example of "man laying with man" is completely disingenuous. He made if quite clear that any sexual activity outside of a marriage is wrong, and that a marriage is only between a man and a woman.

 

[bodecea]

There are various sects of the Christian religion that do not have prohibitions against homosexuality. Anyone can join one of these Churches, or found another one all together. If there are sects that demand snake handling as a precept of their religion there is no problem whatsoever with practicing homosexuals. The problem is when someone who is clearly not a Catholic, nor an Evangelical starts demanding that these religions change to include something they absolutely reject. It makes as much sense as a Pentecostal snake handler demanding that the Catholic Bishop include snake handling rituals in the next Mass or they are victims of discrimination. Go. Do something else. Be something else. If the Catholic Church, Evangelical Church, Synagogue or Mosque loses membership its simply none of your business.

Who has made such a demand? Name names.

 

[Katzndogz]

The Bible mentions homosexuality in Leviticus twice and in Romans once, but homosexuality is not part of the 10 Commandments. Why don't y'all worry more about those who lie, cheat on their spouses, or steal? And with all the attention Jesus put on loving others and not judging, how can you be so hateful?

Seriously, why do you focus so much on homosexuality when there are much bigger problems to work on? In my opinion, that's part of why young folk are turning away from organized religion. Too many people are cherry-picking verses in the Good News to support their hate, and that makes the whole religious community look hypocritical.

I agree with you that there are more important things to worry about, and I agree that any one sin is just as bad as any other, but the accusation of 'hate' is not accurate. Everyone sins, there is not one person who does not. It's not out of 'hate' that the Christian community tries to practice what they believe God has told them too. I also think that Jesus spoke of the 'world', which was separate from living in Christ, and that Christians should focus mostly on themselves following Christ's examples and helping others. Some see 'helping others' as showing them where they think they're going wrong, and what they need to change to be saved or to walk with Christ. Christ told the woman at the well, who was a prostitute, to 'go and sin no more', not to just 'do what you want' and everything will be fine. It's about walking towards a relationship with God and not away. Christians believe that gay people are 'walking away'. I don't necessarily agree with that, it's a difficult topic, but I don't think for the majority of Christians that it's at all about 'hating' anyone.

Christ also didn't say "Go and tell the other prostitutes they are sinful whores" either. In fact, Christ was pretty firm in telling His followers not to judge the sin of others but of themselves. Which is why merely accepting homosexuality as normal may be a worse sin than being homosexual.

 

[bodecea]

Why would "religious young people" be scared away by anything about homosexuality. If they are religious then they would know that homosexuality is a sin, and should be discouraged and not condoned.

If there is any "hate" on display, its by anti-Christian and anti-religous folks like yourself who attack people for their religious beliefs that have been in place for thousands of years.

Let’s put it this way; if Christians stuck to preaching just the teachings of Christ – the man – I think they would attract a whole lot more young people than they are currently. Christ was a beautiful person that taught people to live humbly, love their neighbors, and forgive. Great stuff.

However for many “Christians” today, the #1 focus (in the public sphere) is obsessively talking about how sinful the gay lifestyle is. And this is especially curious, because Christ himself never really preached on the topic, nor did he seem overly concerned.

Personally, I think he was much more focused on helping people and improving the world, vs spending all of his time and energy preventing people from being able to file joint taxes.

Just my take, though...


.

Actually Jesus talked quite a bit about marriage, adultry, and fornication. Concerning marriage He always gave examples of a man and his wife. Never a man and another man. He spoke of the sin of adultry (concerning married husbands and wives), as well as the sin of fornication (all other immoral sexual acts outside of a marriage between a man and women). Homosexuality easily falls into the fornication area and is considered a sin.

To suggest that Jesus in any way condoned homosexuality just because he didn't specifically give an example of "man laying with man" is completely disingenuous. He made if quite clear that any sexual activity outside of a marriage is wrong, and that a marriage is only between a man and a woman.

Gospel, Chapter and Verse plz

 

[bodecea]

Jesus is quoted in the Book of Revelation?

 

[Sunni Man]

Actually Jesus talked quite a bit about marriage, adultry, and fornication. Concerning marriage He always gave examples of a man and his wife. Never a man and another man. He spoke of the sin of adultry (concerning married husbands and wives), as well as the sin of fornication (all other immoral sexual acts outside of a marriage between a man and women). Homosexuality easily falls into the fornication area and is considered a sin.

To suggest that Jesus in any way condoned homosexuality just because he didn't specifically give an example of "man laying with man" is completely disingenuous. He made if quite clear that any sexual activity outside of a marriage is wrong, and that a marriage is only between a man and a woman.

Look up for your self why "dogs" are outside of the Gates of Heaven in the Book of Revelation. And will Not be allowed to enter into Heaven.

Dogs are listed right along with murders, thieves, liars, etc.

The original word is in the Greek that's translated "dogs" in the N.T. has nothing to do with canines.

Both sides of this issue; I challenge you to look it up.

 

[theHawk]

Let’s put it this way; if Christians stuck to preaching just the teachings of Christ – the man – I think they would attract a whole lot more young people than they are currently. Christ was a beautiful person that taught people to live humbly, love their neighbors, and forgive. Great stuff.

However for many “Christians” today, the #1 focus (in the public sphere) is obsessively talking about how sinful the gay lifestyle is. And this is especially curious, because Christ himself never really preached on the topic, nor did he seem overly concerned.

Personally, I think he was much more focused on helping people and improving the world, vs spending all of his time and energy preventing people from being able to file joint taxes.

Just my take, though...


.

Actually Jesus talked quite a bit about marriage, adultry, and fornication. Concerning marriage He always gave examples of a man and his wife. Never a man and another man. He spoke of the sin of adultry (concerning married husbands and wives), as well as the sin of fornication (all other immoral sexual acts outside of a marriage between a man and women). Homosexuality easily falls into the fornication area and is considered a sin.

To suggest that Jesus in any way condoned homosexuality just because he didn't specifically give an example of "man laying with man" is completely disingenuous. He made if quite clear that any sexual activity outside of a marriage is wrong, and that a marriage is only between a man and a woman.

Gospel, Chapter and Verse plz

Matthew 19

4 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’[a] 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

7 “Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?”

8 Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”


As you can see, Jesus clearly states that man will leave his parents (father and mother, not father and father) for a wife (not "wife or husband").

But hey, don't let that stop you libs from spreading the lie that homosexuality is A-OK with Jesus.

 

[bodecea]

Actually Jesus talked quite a bit about marriage, adultry, and fornication. Concerning marriage He always gave examples of a man and his wife. Never a man and another man. He spoke of the sin of adultry (concerning married husbands and wives), as well as the sin of fornication (all other immoral sexual acts outside of a marriage between a man and women). Homosexuality easily falls into the fornication area and is considered a sin.

To suggest that Jesus in any way condoned homosexuality just because he didn't specifically give an example of "man laying with man" is completely disingenuous. He made if quite clear that any sexual activity outside of a marriage is wrong, and that a marriage is only between a man and a woman.

Gospel, Chapter and Verse plz

Matthew 19

4 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’[a] 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

7 “Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?”

8 Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”


As you can see, Jesus clearly states that man will leave his parents (father and mother, not father and father) for a wife (not "wife or husband").

But hey, don't let that stop you libs from spreading the lie that homosexuality is A-OK with Jesus.

And....?

 

[Buford]

Jesus said very clearly that marriage was a man and a woman. In Matthew 19, Jesus teaches on marriage, divorce, and celibacy.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I am quite involved and close to many of our junior high and high school students are our church. The great majority believe homophobia is wrong, and the great majority believe there is a place for homosexuals in the church community. The hatred as espoused by many so-called christian communities disturbs them, and they vow that will not be the future our prominent small town church here.