How powerful would god need to be?

[Taz]

A god should be powerful enough to not make deformed babies.

As a "deformed child" myself when I was born 40+ years ago... What if thst deformity is part of the test of their Soul?

Then said god is an asshole.

 

[BreezeWood]

.
Earth is being consumed by humanity partly due to the messaging of the desert religions. the true simple religion, The Triumph of Good vs Evil is unfortunate as an example of power as that seems destined to display itself again as during Antiquity for a final display unfortunately not to be marveled as it will most likely be bringing "our" final extinction.

 

[Mr Natural]

Can God make a rock so big that He Himself can not lift it?

 

[zaangalewa]

... According to the laws of nature which existed before space and time.

"Before time" was no before, so we are not able to ask "What was before?". No possible question - no possible answer.

And yet the creation of space and time followed rules.

Before rules were created existed no rules and not no rules too. The ancient Greek mythology speaks in this context that in the beginning was the chaos and even the eye of the seer, which is able to see much more of the past than any other eye of a mortal human being was not able to step over into the chaos where dark and light was the same. Only to this treshold they were able to travel back in their minds. But what they reported is this: One day a shimmering glimmering soft light pervaded the whole chaos - this came from Eros - the god of heavenly love - the first of all gods. ... And then came Chronos, the god of time. I guess you remember: Chronos is the god who eats his children. ...


In memory of all victims of all school shootings.

 

[zaangalewa]

... According to the laws of nature which existed before space and time.

"Before time" was no before, so we are not able to ask "What was before?". No possible question - no possible answer.

And yet the creation of space and time followed rules.

Please give us all a fucking break. Nobody knows what was before the Big Bang. You are speculating, at least be honest about it.

Don't be silly.

Unless you believe that the universe was created through a special act of God, you must believe the universe was created through a natural process that was following rules.

Silly? What you say is more nonsense. "Nature" and "universe" are the same. The natural laws we know are our universal laws. If we speak about natural laws which are not part of our nature, of our universe, then we speak about super-natural laws and meta-physical ideas. Sure could exist parallel universes for example - when god made it this way, why not? For spiritual people such ideas are no problem. But we are only connected with our thoughts and ideas and imaginations and also with mathematics with such worlds. On the other side: How to explain scientifically that we are existing in fitness with only this universe here and we are nevertheless able to think about plausible alternatives to our universe here? How are we able to fit in transzendental structures? How are we able to think in a higher degree of freedom than our only possible world here offers to us?

 

[zaangalewa]

A god should be powerful enough to not make deformed babies.

A human being should be powerful enough to help, if someone needs help. Do you have a special needs child?

 

[zaangalewa]

Can God make a rock so big that He Himself can not lift it?

The greatest thinkable rock has the size of our universe. So what's the mass of a rock in the size of our expanding universe? And in case the rock has 50% of the size of our universe - why should god not be able to move it from one side of this universe to the other side? ... This rock ... it would collapse in an extremely "gigantic" black hole, size = 0, isn't it? So what are we asking really, when we ask this what you ask here?

 

[zaangalewa]

A god should be powerful enough to not make deformed babies.

As a "deformed child" myself when I was born 40+ years ago... What if thst deformity is part of the test of their Soul?

Then said god is an asshole.

No - you are not god.

 

[Taz]

A god should be powerful enough to not make deformed babies.

A human being should be powerful enough to help, if someone needs help. Do you have a special needs child?

Ya, you.

 

[Taz]

A god should be powerful enough to not make deformed babies.

As a "deformed child" myself when I was born 40+ years ago... What if thst deformity is part of the test of their Soul?

Then said god is an asshole.

No - you are not god.

But he's just like me!

 

[ding]

... According to the laws of nature which existed before space and time.

"Before time" was no before, so we are not able to ask "What was before?". No possible question - no possible answer.

And yet the creation of space and time followed rules.

Before rules were created existed no rules and not no rules too. The ancient Greek mythology speaks in this context that in the beginning was the chaos and even the eye of the seer, which is able to see much more of the past than any other eye of a mortal human being was not able to step over into the chaos where dark and light was the same. Only to this treshold they were able to travel back in their minds. But what they reported is this: One day a shimmering glimmering soft light pervaded the whole chaos - this came from Eros - the god of heavenly love - the first of all gods. ... And then came Chronos, the god of time. I guess you remember: Chronos is the god who eats his children. ...


In memory of all victims of all school shootings.

I don't see any inconsistencies with what you are saying and what I have said.

Who knows what they believe chaos was. Chaos could have been the moment before inflation and through the cosmic evolution phase of the evolution of time and space.

 

[ding]

... According to the laws of nature which existed before space and time.

"Before time" was no before, so we are not able to ask "What was before?". No possible question - no possible answer.

And yet the creation of space and time followed rules.

Please give us all a fucking break. Nobody knows what was before the Big Bang. You are speculating, at least be honest about it.

Don't be silly.

Unless you believe that the universe was created through a special act of God, you must believe the universe was created through a natural process that was following rules.

Silly? What you say is more nonsense. "Nature" and "universe" are the same. The natural laws we know are our universal laws. If we speak about natural laws which are not part of our nature, of our universe, then we speak about super-natural laws and meta-physical ideas. Sure could exist parallel universes for example - when god made it this way, why not? For spiritual people such ideas are no problem. But we are only connected with our thoughts and ideas and imaginations and also with mathematics with such worlds. On the other side: How to explain scientifically that we are existing in fitness with only this universe here and we are nevertheless able to think about plausible alternatives to our universe here? How are we able to fit in transzendental structures? How are we able to think in a higher degree of freedom than our only possible world here offers to us?

If the universe is expanding then it must have a beginning. If you follow it backwards in time, then any object must come to a boundary of space time. You cannot continue that history indefinitely. This is still true even if a universe has periods of contraction. It still has to have a beginning if expansion over weights the contraction. Physicists have been uncomfortable with the idea of a beginning since the work of Friedman which showed that the solutions of Einstein's equation showed that the universe had a beginning. The problem with a cyclical universe is with the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. If it is a periodic universe then the entropy will increase with each cycle. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics is a fundamental law of nature which tells us that entropy can only increase or stay the same. Entropy can never decrease. Which means that in a finite amount of time, a finite system will reach a maximum state of disorder which is called thermal equilibrium and then it will stay in that state. A cyclical universe cannot avoid this problem.

It is possible for matter to have a beginning. In a closed universe the gravitational energy which is always negative exactly compensates the positive energy of matter. So the energy of a closed universe is always zero. So nothing prevents this universe from being spontaneously created. Because the net energy is always zero. The positive energy of matter is balanced by the negative energy of the gravity of that matter which is the space time curvature of that matter. There is no conservation law that prevents the formation of such a universe. In quantum mechanics if something is not forbidden by conservation laws, then it necessarily happens with some non-zero probability. So a closed universe can spontaneously appear - through the laws of quantum mechanics - out of nothing. And in fact there is an elegant mathematical description which describes this process and shows that a tiny closed universe having very high energy can spontaneously pop into existence and immediately start to expand and cool. In this description, the same laws that describe the evolution of the universe also describe the appearance of the universe which means that the laws were in place before the universe itself.

 

[ding]

Can God make a rock so big that He Himself can not lift it?

We are never to think of God's power in terms of what he could conceivably do by the exercise of what we may call sheer omnipotence which crushes all obstacles in its path. We are always to think of God's power in terms of his purpose. If what he did by sheer omnipotence defeated his purpose, then, however startling and impressive, it would be an expression of weakness, not of power. Indeed, a good definition of power is "ability to achieve purpose. Does it fulfill its purpose?

“Religion’s Answer to the Problem of Evil”

 

[Taz]

Can God make a rock so big that He Himself can not lift it?

We are never to think of God's power in terms of what he could conceivably do by the exercise of what we may call sheer omnipotence which crushes all obstacles in its path. We are always to think of God's power in terms of his purpose. If what he did by sheer omnipotence defeated his purpose, then, however startling and impressive, it would be an expression of weakness, not of power. Indeed, a good definition of power is "ability to achieve purpose. Does it fulfill its purpose?

“Religion’s Answer to the Problem of Evil”

God makes deformed babies. A powerful god wouldn't do that. Only a very, very weak god.

 

[Anathema]

Then said god is an asshole.

No. It's just another test in this life. That's what we're here for.

 

[zaangalewa]

A god should be powerful enough to not make deformed babies.

As a "deformed child" myself when I was born 40+ years ago... What if thst deformity is part of the test of their Soul?

Then said god is an asshole.

No - you are not god.

But he's just like me!

Just in the moment I saw in TV a child of god with a deformation in the brain base - she was lucky: she survived. A result are her deformed feet and hands and she has only a very small bandwidth of facial expressions. But she lives a wonderful life full of love with people who love her too. She is able to express with her voice the emotions she is not able to show with her face. Within some minutes everyone understands that her soul is not deformed only because her body has some problems. In my eyes she is a very beautiful woman. And a very intelligent woman.

And you? You try to hurt others with a maximum of negative destructive energy. You say god is an asshole and god is like you. Better you are not able to describe your Caesarian megalomania. In a roman triumphal march a slave had to tell you "Respice post te, culinem te esse memento" (="Take a look around and remember that you are an asshole").

 

[zaangalewa]

... According to the laws of nature which existed before space and time.

"Before time" was no before, so we are not able to ask "What was before?". No possible question - no possible answer.

And yet the creation of space and time followed rules.

Before rules were created existed no rules and not no rules too. The ancient Greek mythology speaks in this context that in the beginning was the chaos and even the eye of the seer, which is able to see much more of the past than any other eye of a mortal human being was not able to step over into the chaos where dark and light was the same. Only to this treshold they were able to travel back in their minds. But what they reported is this: One day a shimmering glimmering soft light pervaded the whole chaos - this came from Eros - the god of heavenly love - the first of all gods. ... And then came Chronos, the god of time. I guess you remember: Chronos is the god who eats his children. ...


In memory of all victims of all school shootings.

I don't see any inconsistencies with what you are saying and what I have said.

Who knows what they believe chaos was. Chaos could have been the moment before inflation and through the cosmic evolution phase of the evolution of time and space.

I fear it's a waste of time to speak with a self-deforming idiot like you. Read again what I said here - for example about the senselessness of some forms of questions and ideas - until you will be able to understand what I said, when I used a more than 1600 years old philosophy of Augustinus and a some thousands years old Greek poetry. An idea like "the inflation of the universe" (=a scientific truth, wich is as long true as no one finds a better theory) was able because time existed. We still are not able to ask what was "before" time existed, because there was no before. And the universe expands - but it expands into a nowhere. Every point of the universe is always only in the middle of an expanding universe. It expands from all points into all directions. The universe has no border although it is limited in space and time. In general: Natural science is natural science - and not an atheistic meta-physical or super-natural religion.

 

[Taz]

A god should be powerful enough to not make deformed babies.

As a "deformed child" myself when I was born 40+ years ago... What if thst deformity is part of the test of their Soul?

Then said god is an asshole.

No - you are not god.

But he's just like me!

Just in the moment I saw in TV a child of god with a deformation in the brain base - she was lucky: she survived. A result are her deformed feet and hands and she has only a very small bandwidth of facial expressions. But she lives a wonderful life full of love with people who love her too. She is able to express with her voice the emotions she is not able to show with her face. Within some minutes everyone understands that her soul is not deformed only because her body has some problems. In my eyes she is a very beautiful woman. And a very intelligent woman.

And you? You try to hurt others with a maximum of negative destructive energy. You say god is an asshole and god is like you. Better you are not able to describe your Caesarian megalomania. In a roman triumphal march a slave had to tell you "Respice post te, culinem te esse memento" (="Take a look around and remember that you are an asshole").

This guy must be having a great life because of god.

 

[ding]

... According to the laws of nature which existed before space and time.

"Before time" was no before, so we are not able to ask "What was before?". No possible question - no possible answer.

And yet the creation of space and time followed rules.

Before rules were created existed no rules and not no rules too. The ancient Greek mythology speaks in this context that in the beginning was the chaos and even the eye of the seer, which is able to see much more of the past than any other eye of a mortal human being was not able to step over into the chaos where dark and light was the same. Only to this treshold they were able to travel back in their minds. But what they reported is this: One day a shimmering glimmering soft light pervaded the whole chaos - this came from Eros - the god of heavenly love - the first of all gods. ... And then came Chronos, the god of time. I guess you remember: Chronos is the god who eats his children. ...


In memory of all victims of all school shootings.

I don't see any inconsistencies with what you are saying and what I have said.

Who knows what they believe chaos was. Chaos could have been the moment before inflation and through the cosmic evolution phase of the evolution of time and space.

I fear it's a waste of time to speak with a self-deforming idiot like you. Read again what I said here - for example about the senselessness of some forms of questions and ideas - until you will be able to understand what I said, when I used a more than 1600 years old philosophy of Augustinus and a some thousands years old Greek poetry. An idea like "the inflation of the universe" (=a scientific truth, wich is as long true as no one finds a better theory) was able because time existed. We still are not able to ask what was "before" time existed, because there was no before. And the universe expands - but it expands into a nowhere. Every point of the universe is always only in the middle of an expanding universe. It expands from all points into all directions. The universe has no border although it is limited in space and time. In general: Natural science is natural science - and not an atheistic meta-physical or super-natural religion.

So anyone who has a different opinion than you is an idiot?

 

[Taz]

God should be powerful enough that it wouldn't need a book to be accepted.