How Many Dead Mexicans Equal One Dead Border Patrol Agent?

[CrusaderFrank]

Hilarious, if they didnt track them then how the fuck do you know the weapons OBAMA lost was the one that killed the border agents?

The ATF traced the numbers DERP...they KNEW.

EXCLUSIVE: Third Gun Linked to 'Fast and Furious' Identified at Border Agent's Murder Scene

Ok, so Crusader Frank was wrong...Big shocker there. So, The Bullet in the Border agent was from Obama's lost gun?

How was I wrong? Is English not your first language?

 

[The T]

The ATF traced the numbers DERP...they KNEW.

EXCLUSIVE: Third Gun Linked to 'Fast and Furious' Identified at Border Agent's Murder Scene

Ok, so Crusader Frank was wrong...Big shocker there. So, The Bullet in the Border agent was from Obama's lost gun?

How was I wrong? Is English not your first language?

Apparently not CF. This derp is becoming a pretzel before our very eyes.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

"A source briefed on the FBI's findings said the bullet that killed Terry was badly damaged "and that's why the FBI only got a partial match to the weapons. It was just too badly fragmented." The source spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation is continuing."

That's would hold up in a court of law. The bullet was damaged but still matches the F&F weapon found at the scene

 

[buckeye45_73]

There just aren't enough Fast and Furious topics around here. So I thought, "Why? We clearly need more!"

The bongwater circuit has opined that FF is worse than Watergate because someone died. A border patrol agent. His corpse has been politicized, just like those parades of coffins you saw during the anti-war protests.

As we all know, but some would like to forget, the Bush Administration originated the idea of handing guns over to Mexican drug traffickers. And those guns were lost, too. Disappeared in Mexico. So this talk about how Bush's plan was better because they "tagged" the guns with tracking devices, and coordinated with the Mexican authorities, is just so much smoke and mirrors. The end result was the exact same. The guns were lost, and the bad guys have them.

And this was not just once. This was done multiple times by Bush. Multiple times. Even though the tracking devices didn't work as planned, they still kept handing guns over to Mexican drug dealers.

And Bush lost them.

We've all seen the photos of the innocent dead men, women, and children of Mexico who have been slain by the Mexican drug cartels.

Should we pretend in a miracle that none of Bush's guns killed them?

How many of those dead Mexican kids add up to one US Homeland Security agent?

Why are the bongwater drinkers letting Bush off the hook?

I hate Obama more than the next guy. I say this because I hate him for very well thought out and logical reasons. I can discourse about everything wrong with his policies in depth. I can easily explain everything wrong with the ACA in about an hour or two, not with five seconds of regurgitated bumper sticker misdirections.

The faux outrage over the Fast and Furious debacle, and it most certainly is a debacle on Obama's part, is about the stupidest demonstration of Orwellian doublethink I have seen since...well, I see Orwellian doublethink by the right and left nearly every day. But this one is particularly stupid.

I think stuff like this blows up out of proportion precisely because it would be an impossible challenge for the run-of-the-mill bongwater drinking GOP opponent of Obama to speak for more than five minutes with any authority about something like the ACA.

A dead border patrol agent is something the zombies can really sink their teeth into.

Why are the MODS allowing this thread to remain up?

Yes, there are several threads about Fast and Furious and you obviously haven't read any of them. All of your ill-conceived 'points' have been thoroughly rebutted.

This is really quite simple, the ATF illegally supplied Mexican drug cartels thousands of assault weapons that were used in the murder, and continued murder, of innocent civilians--AND NO ONE HAS BEEN HELD RESPONSIBLE.

Now, you can sit there and trivialize this entire issue, but the fact is that for you to be comfortable with not holding anyone responsible for this illegal and murderous operation shows a lack of morality that borderlines on psychopathic. You are so partisan and in love with this administration that you can excuse our government supplying arms to scum that is committing disgusting atrocities south of the border.

Do yourself a favor, because you have shown yourself to be woefully uninformed and ignorant on this matter, do some research and watch the hearing--it is all on Youtube.

Its just lile inner city violence. Liberals give lip service, but they dont care about the poor. They were happy thst teens can kill and dont ja

Remember the good old days when after no WMD's were found in Iraq, the warmongering Right fell back on the case that

liberating the Iraqi people and spreading democracy throughout the Middle East were the 'real' reasons getting 4000+ Americans killed was worth it.

Well, was it worth it?

ve amy serious punishment

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Libs don't care about border guard or US borders for that matter

 

[salem.hills]

Poppycock thread writer

 

[Vidi]

Youre forgetting that there were TWO such programs during the Bush years. Wide Reciever and GunRunner.

Your posted "fact sheet" has a few errors in it.

First, it has combined the number of guns from the two operations into a single operation number.

Second, though 1400 arrests were made, only nine people had actually been charged, one of whom had the charges dropped.

Third, It contains a conspiracy theory in that there is no credible evidence that F&F was concieved as a direct threat to the 2nd amendment or American Gun sellers.

Foruth, the purpose of ALL three was to track the guns IN MEXICO. Therefore the italics portion of the Obama side of your "fact sheet" must have also occurred during the previous two operation ( though WITH Meixcan government knowledge AND trackers on the guns )

And Fifth, why would they shut it down BEFORE the death of Terry and Zapata, if they felt they could still find the guns?

While I agree F&F is a MAJOR fuck up and people should be held accoutnable for it. Its best if we stick to the facts and hang those responsible based on facts not fiction.

 

[Dr Grump]

The second point on Obama's side.

Total, utter, bullshit...and why people think the likes of you are a loon. And without that point, the rest is irrelevent...

 

[Mr. Shaman]

How Many Dead Mexicans Equal One Dead Border Patrol Agent?

Ask any "conservative".

They're (obviously) in-possession of the metrics that prove we're benefiting from being less-than.....

.....a Third-World country.

​

 

[OODA_Loop]

"A source briefed on the FBI's findings said the bullet that killed Terry was badly damaged "and that's why the FBI only got a partial match to the weapons. It was just too badly fragmented." The source spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation is continuing."

That's would hold up in a court of law. The bullet was damaged but still matches the F&F weapon found at the scene

Round went through baliistic armor (as 7.62 will do) and damaged.

 

[CaféAuLait]

"A source briefed on the FBI's findings said the bullet that killed Terry was badly damaged "and that's why the FBI only got a partial match to the weapons. It was just too badly fragmented." The source spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation is continuing."

That's would hold up in a court of law. The bullet was damaged but still matches the F&F weapon found at the scene

They will dispute that too, and say it's reasonable doubt.

 

[Vidi]

Libs don't care about border guard or US borders for that matter

Thats an absolute falsehood.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

"A source briefed on the FBI's findings said the bullet that killed Terry was badly damaged "and that's why the FBI only got a partial match to the weapons. It was just too badly fragmented." The source spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation is continuing."

That's would hold up in a court of law. The bullet was damaged but still matches the F&F weapon found at the scene

They will dispute that too, and say it's reasonable doubt.

....Like any other instance where no one will admit to a "friendly fire" shooting.​

 

[The T]

Libs don't care about border guard or US borders for that matter

Thats an absolute falsehood.

Is it? Then WHy are LIBS defending Holder, Obama and the false claim of EP when TWO agents were murdered, along with hundreds of Mexican citizens?

 

[Vidi]

"A source briefed on the FBI's findings said the bullet that killed Terry was badly damaged "and that's why the FBI only got a partial match to the weapons. It was just too badly fragmented." The source spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation is continuing."

That's would hold up in a court of law. The bullet was damaged but still matches the F&F weapon found at the scene

They will dispute that too, and say it's reasonable doubt.

I think the salient point of this thread is being missed.

These guns went into the hands of the drug cartels. If one of those guns was used to kill an american, how many Mexicans were killed by the other guns?

Is an American life worth more than a Mexican life?

Now some would point at the Republicans and say the Republicans think an American life is worth more. And they would be right! I see absolutely NO OUTCRY for the number of Mexican lives lost due to the loss of these guns.

BUT (<--------notice the big but ) before we Obama supporters get all high and mighty consider this:

The operation sent guns into the hands of known violent criminals and was NOT canceled until American lives were lost, though it had to be CLEAR that Mexican lives were being lost. From that it is safe to say that the Obama administration ALSO places more value on American lives than Mexican lives.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Obama:

Never notified the Mexican government

Never installed tracking devices in the weapons

Never arrested anyone

Got 2 US Law Enforcement officers killed

Did that help?

Hilarious, if they didnt track them then how the fuck do you know the weapons OBAMA lost was the one that killed the border agents?

They didn't install tracking devices.

The Bullet that killed Terry was too badly damaged to match conclusively with the weapons found at the scene.

"A source briefed on the FBI's findings said the bullet that killed Terry was badly damaged "and that's why the FBI only got a partial match to the weapons. It was just too badly fragmented." The source spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation is continuing."

Fast and Furious: FBI report at odds with ATF claim on weapons - Los Angeles Times

Ok then, STFU saying the guns Obama lost killed a border agent. Dam that was easy

 

[tinydancer]

Youre forgetting that there were TWO such programs during the Bush years. Wide Reciever and GunRunner.

Your posted "fact sheet" has a few errors in it.

First, it has combined the number of guns from the two operations into a single operation number.

Second, though 1400 arrests were made, only nine people had actually been charged, one of whom had the charges dropped.

Third, It contains a conspiracy theory in that there is no credible evidence that F&F was concieved as a direct threat to the 2nd amendment or American Gun sellers.

Foruth, the purpose of ALL three was to track the guns IN MEXICO. Therefore the italics portion of the Obama side of your "fact sheet" must have also occurred during the previous two operation ( though WITH Meixcan government knowledge AND trackers on the guns )

And Fifth, why would they shut it down BEFORE the death of Terry and Zapata, if they felt they could still find the guns?

While I agree F&F is a MAJOR fuck up and people should be held accoutnable for it. Its best if we stick to the facts and hang those responsible based on facts not fiction.

Regarding your third point:

From CBS not a conspiracy website.


December 7, 2011 1:44 PM

Documents: ATF used "Fast and Furious" to make the case for gun regulations

By Sharyl Attkisson


Guns recovered by ATF Agents (Credit: CBS)

Documents obtained by CBS News show that the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) discussed using their covert operation "Fast and Furious" to argue for controversial new rules about gun sales.

But wait there's more!


ATF officials didn't intend to publicly disclose their own role in letting Mexican cartels obtain the weapons, but emails show they discussed using the sales, including sales encouraged by ATF, to justify a new gun regulation called "Demand Letter 3". That would require some U.S. gun shops to report the sale of multiple rifles or "long guns." Demand Letter 3 was so named because it would be the third ATF program demanding gun dealers report tracing information.

You getting this? It's not bullshit. This is documented.

Further into the article:

On July 14, 2010 after ATF headquarters in Washington D.C. received an update on Fast and Furious, ATF Field Ops Assistant Director Mark Chait emailed Bill Newell, ATF's Phoenix Special Agent in Charge of Fast and Furious:

"Bill - can you see if these guns were all purchased from the same (licensed gun dealer) and at one time. We are looking at anecdotal cases to support a demand letter on long gun multiple sales. Thanks."

And kazinga! the nail in the coffin.

On Jan. 4, 2011, as ATF prepared a press conference to announce arrests in Fast and Furious, Newell saw it as "(A)nother time to address Multiple Sale on Long Guns issue." And a day after the press conference, Chait emailed Newell:

"Bill--well done yesterday... (I)n light of our request for Demand letter 3, this case could be a strong supporting factor if we can determine how many multiple sales of long guns occurred during the course of this case."

The whole article is at the link.

Documents: ATF used "Fast and Furious" to make the case for gun regulations - CBS News Investigates - CBS News

 

[WillowTree]

Hilarious, if they didnt track them then how the fuck do you know the weapons OBAMA lost was the one that killed the border agents?

They didn't install tracking devices.

The Bullet that killed Terry was too badly damaged to match conclusively with the weapons found at the scene.

"A source briefed on the FBI's findings said the bullet that killed Terry was badly damaged "and that's why the FBI only got a partial match to the weapons. It was just too badly fragmented." The source spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation is continuing."

Fast and Furious: FBI report at odds with ATF claim on weapons - Los Angeles Times

Ok then, STFU saying the guns Obama lost killed a border agent. Dam that was easy

lying is always easy for a bot.

 

[Vidi]

Youre forgetting that there were TWO such programs during the Bush years. Wide Reciever and GunRunner.

Your posted "fact sheet" has a few errors in it.

First, it has combined the number of guns from the two operations into a single operation number.

Second, though 1400 arrests were made, only nine people had actually been charged, one of whom had the charges dropped.

Third, It contains a conspiracy theory in that there is no credible evidence that F&F was concieved as a direct threat to the 2nd amendment or American Gun sellers.

Foruth, the purpose of ALL three was to track the guns IN MEXICO. Therefore the italics portion of the Obama side of your "fact sheet" must have also occurred during the previous two operation ( though WITH Meixcan government knowledge AND trackers on the guns )

And Fifth, why would they shut it down BEFORE the death of Terry and Zapata, if they felt they could still find the guns?

While I agree F&F is a MAJOR fuck up and people should be held accoutnable for it. Its best if we stick to the facts and hang those responsible based on facts not fiction.

Regarding your third point:

From CBS not a conspiracy website.


December 7, 2011 1:44 PM

Documents: ATF used "Fast and Furious" to make the case for gun regulations

By Sharyl Attkisson


Guns recovered by ATF Agents (Credit: CBS)

Documents obtained by CBS News show that the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) discussed using their covert operation "Fast and Furious" to argue for controversial new rules about gun sales.

But wait there's more!


ATF officials didn't intend to publicly disclose their own role in letting Mexican cartels obtain the weapons, but emails show they discussed using the sales, including sales encouraged by ATF, to justify a new gun regulation called "Demand Letter 3". That would require some U.S. gun shops to report the sale of multiple rifles or "long guns." Demand Letter 3 was so named because it would be the third ATF program demanding gun dealers report tracing information.

You getting this? It's not bullshit. This is documented.

Further into the article:

On July 14, 2010 after ATF headquarters in Washington D.C. received an update on Fast and Furious, ATF Field Ops Assistant Director Mark Chait emailed Bill Newell, ATF's Phoenix Special Agent in Charge of Fast and Furious:

"Bill - can you see if these guns were all purchased from the same (licensed gun dealer) and at one time. We are looking at anecdotal cases to support a demand letter on long gun multiple sales. Thanks."

And kazinga! the nail in the coffin.

On Jan. 4, 2011, as ATF prepared a press conference to announce arrests in Fast and Furious, Newell saw it as "(A)nother time to address Multiple Sale on Long Guns issue." And a day after the press conference, Chait emailed Newell:

"Bill--well done yesterday... (I)n light of our request for Demand letter 3, this case could be a strong supporting factor if we can determine how many multiple sales of long guns occurred during the course of this case."

The whole article is at the link.

Documents: ATF used "Fast and Furious" to make the case for gun regulations - CBS News Investigates - CBS News

And the reporting of the sale of multiple "long guns" equates to an assault on the 2nd amendment how?

- understand that I guarantee I own more guns than you do, both hand and rifle combined. In fact, I would bet money I own more than every other poster in this thread...combined -

 

[tinydancer]

Youre forgetting that there were TWO such programs during the Bush years. Wide Reciever and GunRunner.

Your posted "fact sheet" has a few errors in it.

First, it has combined the number of guns from the two operations into a single operation number.

Second, though 1400 arrests were made, only nine people had actually been charged, one of whom had the charges dropped.

Third, It contains a conspiracy theory in that there is no credible evidence that F&F was concieved as a direct threat to the 2nd amendment or American Gun sellers.

Foruth, the purpose of ALL three was to track the guns IN MEXICO. Therefore the italics portion of the Obama side of your "fact sheet" must have also occurred during the previous two operation ( though WITH Meixcan government knowledge AND trackers on the guns )

And Fifth, why would they shut it down BEFORE the death of Terry and Zapata, if they felt they could still find the guns?

While I agree F&F is a MAJOR fuck up and people should be held accoutnable for it. Its best if we stick to the facts and hang those responsible based on facts not fiction.

Regarding your third point:

From CBS not a conspiracy website.


December 7, 2011 1:44 PM

Documents: ATF used "Fast and Furious" to make the case for gun regulations

By Sharyl Attkisson


Guns recovered by ATF Agents (Credit: CBS)

Documents obtained by CBS News show that the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) discussed using their covert operation "Fast and Furious" to argue for controversial new rules about gun sales.

But wait there's more!


ATF officials didn't intend to publicly disclose their own role in letting Mexican cartels obtain the weapons, but emails show they discussed using the sales, including sales encouraged by ATF, to justify a new gun regulation called "Demand Letter 3". That would require some U.S. gun shops to report the sale of multiple rifles or "long guns." Demand Letter 3 was so named because it would be the third ATF program demanding gun dealers report tracing information.

You getting this? It's not bullshit. This is documented.

Further into the article:

On July 14, 2010 after ATF headquarters in Washington D.C. received an update on Fast and Furious, ATF Field Ops Assistant Director Mark Chait emailed Bill Newell, ATF's Phoenix Special Agent in Charge of Fast and Furious:

"Bill - can you see if these guns were all purchased from the same (licensed gun dealer) and at one time. We are looking at anecdotal cases to support a demand letter on long gun multiple sales. Thanks."

And kazinga! the nail in the coffin.

On Jan. 4, 2011, as ATF prepared a press conference to announce arrests in Fast and Furious, Newell saw it as "(A)nother time to address Multiple Sale on Long Guns issue." And a day after the press conference, Chait emailed Newell:

"Bill--well done yesterday... (I)n light of our request for Demand letter 3, this case could be a strong supporting factor if we can determine how many multiple sales of long guns occurred during the course of this case."

The whole article is at the link.

Documents: ATF used "Fast and Furious" to make the case for gun regulations - CBS News Investigates - CBS News

And the reporting of the sale of multiple "long guns" equates to an assault on the 2nd amendment how?

- understand that I guarantee I own more guns than you do, both hand and rifle combined. In fact, I would bet money I own more than every other poster in this thread...combined -

I've only maintained that F&F from what we know at this point in time is that the ATF was looking to provide anecdotal evidence (as in their own words) to enact new legislation re gun control.

The key here is "at this point in time". And most importantly the ATF basically mandated these "multiple sales" .

One more time, think of the bullshit of this.

"Bill--well done yesterday... (I)n light of our request for Demand letter 3, this case could be a strong supporting factor if we can determine how many multiple sales of long guns occurred during the course of this case."

It's devious and disgusting.