How long with republicans play chicken with our economy?

[SFC Ollie]

If weren't spending our hearts desire blowing shit up overseas, would you still want the budget the same?

I can appreciate the loyalty of a company man, but come on, Sarge... $12 Billion a month? Seriously?

We do not need to gut the military to save money. But watch and see, the wars will end and troop strength will be cut; again. Programs have already been gutted, programs that would keep us ahead of everyone else.

Retirees have already been notified that they are looking at upping our medical costs. What part of a fixed income do they forget about? There's talk about raising Tricare fees and linking that to the cost of living allowance. You know the one we haven't had raise in 2 years, while food prices went up. They are also talking about raising our prescription co-pays, in fact i think they already decided on a date for that one. I remember when I was a young dumb troop, free medical and dental for life....just do 20 years..... BS... When congress talks money it is the military that always seems to take the brunt, And thought it's probably not true it seems like retirees take alot of it.

So cut the military, with North Korea and Iran playing games, and China building their military up? No, I don't think so.

Wait, you're talking about two different things. The Military Pension System is an entitlement program at least as worthy of support as is Social Security and Medicare.

If we quit blowing shit up overseas (not only paying for the ordinance to blow it up, but also the reconstruction costs) to the tune of $12 billion a month, don't you think we'll have a better shot at asking our neighbors to consider Tri-Care with the same compassionate eye they'll have on Medicare?

DOD has already announced that Tricare fees would be going up.

 

[Trajan]

$12 Billion a month blowing shit up in Afghanistan & Iraq. That's a LOT of milk & cookies.

But it doesn't matter - I'm not here to 'defend' what the democrats are spending on welfare, I'm here to implore the republicans to be reasonable about cutting military spending and getting down to business about addressing the patently unfair tax code we live under. I'll implore the democrats to return to PAYGO with regards to their spending habits too, but not in this thread... This thread is to discuss the stone-walling republicans.

I hold the republicans responsible. I believe that they, as a party, would prefer to see the economy fall apart before the next election. I accuse the republican leadership of treason.

gates said in his farewell tour after the cuts that have been enacted, even a further 10% cut can be very very very difficult and catastrophic......between 1985 and 1998, the total number of US troops fell by 700,000, the number of civilian employees by 300,000.......we have canceled 3 of 5 new aircraft carriers raped the F22 prgm. and are cutting 50K men. and, the 120 Billion a year for iraq and afghan. is shrinking while we speak.....


Even IF, they took another 50 billion a year from the DOD, (outside ME funding, the DOD 2012 budget is 553 Billion) to 500 billion a year, then what? Thats not where the money is ...hello....now,its time for the dems to pitch in. Entitlements yo', thats where the money is.

Entitlements do not include Social Security. I've paid 15% of every pay check into that retirement account, separate and in addition to federal income tax. Short of a total melt-down, I expect a return on that investment.

That being said, I implore the democrats to practice PAYGO - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and scrap everything the lobbyists have written for themselves since PAYGO expired in 2003 and start over.

But this thread is about the republicans 'playing chicken' with our economy. I find the actions of the house leadership since January deliberately detrimental to the American economy for political reasons and therefore treasonous. Just my humble opinion, but it's how I'm going to apply my negative vote this next go around, both hanging at the water cooler and in the ballot box, all things being equal to today.

look, I don't know how old you are or what you income is, but let me tell you something Joe, IF you think in say,10- 15 years ( I am in my 50's) , you or I will be getting the full award for say retiring at 65 67 whatever, please pass that joint.

they are going to means test, they HAVE TO. they are going to institute the greatest fucking over of the productive American since, well the advent of SS, the Ponzi scheme crash will occur and stupid us, well, we missed the boat, we were born to late.

it will constitute the greatest redistribution of wealth ever, and in affect back date a defacto tax of 12.4% paid by you and your employer for all your working life.

they will tell us its either taxes at say 30% MORE across the board for everyone on top of rates now, or diminished benefits PLUS the means testing, they will tell folks who say have looked ahead that they don't need the max award even they qualify ( whats is it now 2300 a month?) they will use that money to pay an average award to everyone there by submarining US, me and you, the schmucks who have assets and looked ahead, becasue the system will be running outs way ahead of ins.....

They will tar and feather as avaricious anyone who says hey, I paid all my life, "I want my 2300, even if I have 500K in the bank and a paid off house".....watch. it will happen, and they will tell us to pound sand.

 

[AVG-JOE]

where is the Obama budget for year 2012.
what are his plans for deficit cuts?
what are the pans for the debt ceiling?

Damn good questions. I haven't heard a proposal that hasn't been shredded by one side or the other.

uhm his own side shredded his own 'plan' the fumble fingers gobbledygook of a budget he put forth was voted down in the senate....97-0, yes - zero.

One side or the other - bottom line is no budget, just a string of continuing resolutions and a distinct lack of leadership (at least leadership that the public would tolerate) from all parties concerned.

 

[AVG-JOE]

We do not need to gut the military to save money. But watch and see, the wars will end and troop strength will be cut; again. Programs have already been gutted, programs that would keep us ahead of everyone else.

Retirees have already been notified that they are looking at upping our medical costs. What part of a fixed income do they forget about? There's talk about raising Tricare fees and linking that to the cost of living allowance. You know the one we haven't had raise in 2 years, while food prices went up. They are also talking about raising our prescription co-pays, in fact i think they already decided on a date for that one. I remember when I was a young dumb troop, free medical and dental for life....just do 20 years..... BS... When congress talks money it is the military that always seems to take the brunt, And thought it's probably not true it seems like retirees take alot of it.

So cut the military, with North Korea and Iran playing games, and China building their military up? No, I don't think so.

Wait, you're talking about two different things. The Military Pension System is an entitlement program at least as worthy of support as is Social Security and Medicare.

If we quit blowing shit up overseas (not only paying for the ordinance to blow it up, but also the reconstruction costs) to the tune of $12 billion a month, don't you think we'll have a better shot at asking our neighbors to consider Tri-Care with the same compassionate eye they'll have on Medicare?

DOD has already announced that Tricare fees would be going up.

Medicare premiums went up to $115 this year, sounds like the military and public medical entitlements are both on the rise.

With fixed income pensioners facing these increases, do we still want to be spending $12 billion a month blowing shit up overseas?

 

[AVG-JOE]

gates said in his farewell tour after the cuts that have been enacted, even a further 10% cut can be very very very difficult and catastrophic......between 1985 and 1998, the total number of US troops fell by 700,000, the number of civilian employees by 300,000.......we have canceled 3 of 5 new aircraft carriers raped the F22 prgm. and are cutting 50K men. and, the 120 Billion a year for iraq and afghan. is shrinking while we speak.....


Even IF, they took another 50 billion a year from the DOD, (outside ME funding, the DOD 2012 budget is 553 Billion) to 500 billion a year, then what? Thats not where the money is ...hello....now,its time for the dems to pitch in. Entitlements yo', thats where the money is.

Entitlements do not include Social Security. I've paid 15% of every pay check into that retirement account, separate and in addition to federal income tax. Short of a total melt-down, I expect a return on that investment.

That being said, I implore the democrats to practice PAYGO - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and scrap everything the lobbyists have written for themselves since PAYGO expired in 2003 and start over.

But this thread is about the republicans 'playing chicken' with our economy. I find the actions of the house leadership since January deliberately detrimental to the American economy for political reasons and therefore treasonous. Just my humble opinion, but it's how I'm going to apply my negative vote this next go around, both hanging at the water cooler and in the ballot box, all things being equal to today.

look, I don't know how old you are or what you income is, but let me tell you something Joe, IF you think in say,10- 15 years ( I am in my 50's) , you or I will be getting the full award for say retiring at 65 67 whatever, please pass that joint.

they are going to means test, they HAVE TO. they are going to institute the greatest fucking over of the productive American since, well the advent of SS, the Ponzi scheme crash will occur and stupid us, well, we missed the boat, we were born to late.

it will constitute the greatest redistribution of wealth ever, and in affect back date a defacto tax of 12.4% paid by you and your employer for all your working life.

they will tell us its either taxes at say 30% MORE across the board for everyone on top of rates now, or diminished benefits PLUS the means testing, they will tell folks who say have looked ahead that they don't need the max award even they qualify ( whats is it now 2300 a month?) they will use that money to pay an average award to everyone there by submarining US, me and you, the schmucks who have assets and looked ahead, becasue the system will be running outs way ahead of ins.....

They will tar and feather as avaricious anyone who says hey, I paid all my life, "I want my 2300, even if I have 500K in the bank and a paid off house".....watch. it will happen, and they will tell us to pound sand.

Who is 'they'? That's a LOT of predictions about what 'they' will do and what will happen when 'they' do it. If I could predict the future with any more accuracy than I do, I'd be sitting on SouthBeach with a lap top, a trading account and a mojito.

If we're still having this conversation in 12 years when I start looking at my SS options, my optimism may wane, but until then my hope lay in 'We, The People', not 'they'.

When an elected representative tells me to pound sand (as the republicans have with their stand on the bullshit tax code) I vote against them. I just wish I could tell the republicans to pound sand without having to tell the democrats 'you're hired'.

 

[editec]

I just wish I could tell the republicans to pound sand without having to tell the democrats 'you're hired'.

Most Amnericans SO feel your pain.

 

[Flopper]

Of course the Democrats want an increase they do NOT want any cuts. ANd that is the problem, when presented with a measly 60 billion NON cut cuts they refused. Now with a need for real cuts they continue to refuse demanding instead more spending. And the President? Read what he has requested as his budget.

You don’t control spending by refusing to honor your financial commitments. Would you reduce your spending by not paying your mortgage? The way to control spending is through the budget process. If the budget process doesn’t works, we need to change it; for example a constitutional amendment that would require a balanced budget. Every state except Vermont has this requirement. Such an amendment to be phased in over a number of years with provisions for emergency funding would solve the problem.

.

thats a smoke screen, we collect more than enough to pay the interest due on bonds debts etc. outstanding....

Attempting to make huge cuts in spending this year would drive the country into another recession. Spending cuts should be phased in over a number of years. Large budget cuts at this time would drive the country into another recession. With the 2012 elections just around the corner, there is nothing the Republican leadership would like better, however I doubt the voters feel the same way

uh huh, so stasis, we just continue to spend and borrow 3 Billion a DAY, and? so, if we just not borrow, we can save 80-90 billion a month? thats 1. trillion in a year, less than the 2 trillion the reps want , you on board?

and btw, please show me where the dems have agreed to cut ANYTHING, cowboy poerty doesn't count, they are defending EVERYTHING.....for a lousy 38 billion , it took 3 months and all hell to break loose....they have not done a budget since april of 09 .....balls in their court.

So you think we could pull a trillion dollars out of government spending in a year without driving the country into a recession? That's 7% of GDP, 3 times the drop we had in last recession. If Democrats were to agree to such a plan, they would be held responsible for the resulting recession and the Republicans would take credit for the solving the deficit problem; not gonna happen.

 

[AVG-JOE]

You don’t control spending by refusing to honor your financial commitments. Would you reduce your spending by not paying your mortgage? The way to control spending is through the budget process. If the budget process doesn’t works, we need to change it; for example a constitutional amendment that would require a balanced budget. Every state except Vermont has this requirement. Such an amendment to be phased in over a number of years with provisions for emergency funding would solve the problem.

.

thats a smoke screen, we collect more than enough to pay the interest due on bonds debts etc. outstanding....

Attempting to make huge cuts in spending this year would drive the country into another recession. Spending cuts should be phased in over a number of years. Large budget cuts at this time would drive the country into another recession. With the 2012 elections just around the corner, there is nothing the Republican leadership would like better, however I doubt the voters feel the same way

uh huh, so stasis, we just continue to spend and borrow 3 Billion a DAY, and? so, if we just not borrow, we can save 80-90 billion a month? thats 1. trillion in a year, less than the 2 trillion the reps want , you on board?

and btw, please show me where the dems have agreed to cut ANYTHING, cowboy poerty doesn't count, they are defending EVERYTHING.....for a lousy 38 billion , it took 3 months and all hell to break loose....they have not done a budget since april of 09 .....balls in their court.

So you think we could pull a trillion dollars out of government spending in a year without driving the country into a recession? That's 7% of GDP, 3 times the drop we had in last recession. If Democrats were to agree to such a plan, they would be held responsible for the resulting recession and the Republicans would take credit for the solving the deficit problem; not gonna happen.

Fucking politics! Neither team seems to be interested in anything but a bloody win for their very own gipper, the American Middle Class be damned... I wish I could tell 'em all to pound sand in 2012.

 

[Moonglow]

it is time for both repubs and demos to get their head out of their azzes and do their frickin' job

 

[code1211]

Damn good questions. I haven't heard a proposal that hasn't been shredded by one side or the other.

uhm his own side shredded his own 'plan' the fumble fingers gobbledygook of a budget he put forth was voted down in the senate....97-0, yes - zero.

One side or the other - bottom line is no budget, just a string of continuing resolutions and a distinct lack of leadership (at least leadership that the public would tolerate) from all parties concerned.

Regarding budgets, the Republicans always submitted one when they were the guys on the top. The failure to submit budgets and then to spend twice the ampount of the previously submitted budget is uniquely the work of Nancy and Harry.

Don't get me wrong. The Republicans have less fiscal sense and integrity than the average drunken sailor, but the Democrats, by comparison, make them look like miserly folks with a knack and a need for extended planning.

 

[rdean]

How long with republicans play chicken with our economy?

The Republican leadership obviously don't care about the middle class. Not something anyone can really argue about.

Business on the other hand, doesn't want to see an economic meltdown. Business might actually step in and tell their minions to do the right thing.

 

[hortysir]

So you think we could pull a trillion dollars out of government spending in a year without driving the country into a recession? That's 7% of GDP, 3 times the drop we had in last recession. If Democrats were to agree to such a plan, they would be held responsible for the resulting recession and the Republicans would take credit for the solving the deficit problem; not gonna happen.

How fucked up has *any* country become that it's government has gotten so big and embedded in everything that to defund it would be a bad thing?

Name one government, in history, that has gotten this big that *hasn't* become oppressive.



Waiting.

 

[rdean]

So you think we could pull a trillion dollars out of government spending in a year without driving the country into a recession? That's 7% of GDP, 3 times the drop we had in last recession. If Democrats were to agree to such a plan, they would be held responsible for the resulting recession and the Republicans would take credit for the solving the deficit problem; not gonna happen.

How fucked up has *any* country become that it's government has gotten so big and embedded in everything that to defund it would be a bad thing?

Name one government, in history, that has gotten this big that *hasn't* become oppressive.



Waiting.

This government will only become as oppressive as Republicans make it.

Anti gay
anti women's rights
anti education
anti Muslim
Anti black
Anti Hispanic
Anti science
anti union

Repression is all Republicans know. It's what they do. It's why they want to practice war outside the US. To know they best way to crush dissent in case the US Public begins to "fight back" against their numbing policies.

 

[JimH52]

Obama won't do it, but maybe he should just let the GOP drive us into default. I mean, I have heard time and time again, that the democrats are overstaing the danger. So, let's stop paying the bills and see what happens. When the world plunges into a deeper depression that the Great Depression, perhaps the repubs will be happy. You know, recalling those good old Herbert Hoover days...

 

[Brutus]

We cannot tax our way out of this debt. There simply isn't enough money out there to do it.

No one says otherwise.

The problem will be solved only with both tax increases and spending cuts. The problem is the GOP refuses to consider the former.

of course the huge huge problem with taxing the private economy is that it harms the private economy. You don't want to do that ever, least of all in a recession.

For example, the more you tax capital gains or venture capital the fewer new ventures you have like Intel and Google.

Thats an example that even a liberal can understand.

 

[Big Fitz]

National debt time bomb ticks toward crisis - Business - Eye on the Economy - msnbc.com

Interest rates may begin to rise far before August. There is nothing the Republican Party would like more than to see the economy totally tank a little over year before the 2012 elections. I believe that is their plan. Tank the economy so that Obama goes. Do they know what ramifications this will hold. We could easily see double digit interest rates.

But they need to hold on to their main supporters, the rich. There CANNOT be a roll back to pre-W days for the taxes the wealthy owe. If we default, the world will drop immediately into depression, but at least the rich will still be able to eat, thanks to the republicans.

Hopefully till the DNC swerves or is crushed on the front end of the locomotive of societal change and we can repair the damage done by Wilson, the New Deal and the Great Society.

 

[Brutus]

But they need to hold on to their main supporters, the rich.

actually we all need to hold on to the rich since they are the ones who invented the products and created the jobs that got us from the stone age to here. The liberal will be the enemy of the rich and so the enemy of progress.