How Long Before Vetting Is Called Torture??

[Moonglow]

lol, vetting turned out to be torture for Ben Carson.

Befuddled the old fellow rather well...

Like I posted before, it was reminiscent of the old Charlie Brown 'why is everybody always pickin' on me?' song.

I didn't think his sensitive nature would allow any analytical responses to lax moments...

 

[ClosedCaption]

Oh, btw, the OP is a classic RWnut strawman. Invent an absurd scenario that doesn't exist, and then argue against it.

Exactly, like "what is torture? IDK, but I know its not giving Terrorist a warm bed!"

Huh?

 

[Moonglow]

Oh, btw, the OP is a classic RWnut strawman. Invent an absurd scenario that doesn't exist, and then argue against it.

Exactly, like "what is torture? IDK, but I know its not giving Terrorist a warm bed!"

Huh?

Depends if they have central heat and air...

 

[TooTall]

Actually the road that the liberal left always travels is "it for the children." In this case Obama went one step further and said that opposition was oppostion to "Women and Orphans."

Abortion: "it's for the children."

Why do you hate children? (other than for the acceptable reasons, lol)

There are thousands of American children that need help. As soon as they are all taken care of Obama could consider taking care of Syrian children. Until then various aid agencies could be funded by the UN to feed, clothe and shelter these refugees in safe middle eastern countries where they could return home as soon as Obama destroys ISIS. LOL It is published that 12 refugees can be taken care of for the cost of bringing 1 refugee to the US. If Obama really gave a damn about children he would promote that publicly and introduce a resolution in the UN.

So you're not among the RWnuts who always claim it's only illegal immigration we oppose; we support legal immigration?

Eh?

I don't know any RWnuts that are opposed to legal immigration. Only a damned fool approves of illegal immigration. Can I put you in that camp?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Actually the road that the liberal left always travels is "it for the children." In this case Obama went one step further and said that opposition was oppostion to "Women and Orphans."

Abortion: "it's for the children."

Why do you hate children? (other than for the acceptable reasons, lol)

There are thousands of American children that need help. As soon as they are all taken care of Obama could consider taking care of Syrian children. Until then various aid agencies could be funded by the UN to feed, clothe and shelter these refugees in safe middle eastern countries where they could return home as soon as Obama destroys ISIS. LOL It is published that 12 refugees can be taken care of for the cost of bringing 1 refugee to the US. If Obama really gave a damn about children he would promote that publicly and introduce a resolution in the UN.

So you're not among the RWnuts who always claim it's only illegal immigration we oppose; we support legal immigration?

Eh?

I don't know any RWnuts that are opposed to legal immigration. Only a damned fool approves of illegal immigration. Can I put you in that camp?

If you support legal immigration then you support the legal immigration of Syrians to the US.

 

[Searcher44]

"So much control that they used language as a cudgel to restrict the Bush administration's attempt gain valuable information from captured Islamic terrorists.
The attempt used benign methods, none of which could actually be called 'torture.'

Why did these "benign methods" result in the death of several detainees?

If the methods were not illegal torture why were so many detainees moved incognito around the world to "black sites"?

If waterboarding is not torture why has the U.S.A prosecuted perpertrators of this method in the past?

"Japanese soldiers other than the Class A war criminals were also prosecuted for mistreatment of American prisoners—and water torture “loomed large in the evidence presented against them.” For instance, at the Yokohama Class B and C War Crimes Trials in 1947, Yukio Asano, an interpreter, faced a charge of violating “the laws and customs of war” through these specific acts:

Specification 1: That in or about July or August, 1943, the accused Yukio Asano, did willfully and unlawfully, brutally mistreat and torture Morris O. Killough, an American Prisoner of War, by beating and kicking him, by fastening him on a stretcher and pouring water up his nostrils."

Perhaps the most heinous aspect of these "enhanced interrogation techniques" is that the victims often turned out to be innocent and caught up in indiscriminate sweeps or turned in by revenge seeking informers.

.” He underwent the process 83 times, while another of the CIA’s highest-value detainees, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, said to be the principal architect of the 9/11 attacks, was subjected to waterboarding 183 times.
Beatings and threats
Many detainees have reported being beaten by interrogators, and the CIA memo mentions a number of approved methods of physical contact, including “facial holds”, “insult slaps” and “attention grasps”.
Most of those interviewed by the ICRC alleged that these beatings often occurred in the immediate aftermath of their capture, often multiple times in the day.
One detainee said: “I was punched and slapped in the face and on the back, to the extent that I was bleeding. While having a rope round my neck and being tied to a pillar, my head was banged against the pillar repeatedly.”
Six of the detainees said they were slammed into walls after having a collar placed around their necks. The CIA called it “walling”: a fake, flexible wall is constructed and a detainee is thrown against it, creating a loud noise. The noise is designed to make the detainee believe they are injured.
Detainees also reported threats of severe violence and sexual assault made against them and their families. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed told the ICRC he was threatened with being brought to the “verge of death and back again”.
The torture report notes that at least three detainees were threatened with harm to their families. Interrogators implied to Nashiri that his mother would be brought in front of him and sexually abused. The report also notes one detainee was told his mother’s throat would be cut. It is not clear which detainee this references.
The torture report confirms that Nashiri was threatened with a pistol placed near his head and a cordless drill that was operated near his body. Nashiri was blindfolded at the time.
“Al-Nashiri did not provide any additional threat information during, or after, these interrogations,” the report concludes

Stress positions
A variety of stress positions were used by the CIA. Ten terror suspects alleged to the ICRC that these included beingtold to stand upright and shackled to the ceiling for up to three days, and in some cases at intervals for over three months. Other stress positions included being shackled to the floor with arms stretched over the head.
Three detainees interviewed by the ICRC said they were forced to urinate and defecate on themselves in these positions, and were left standing in their own excrement.
The use of stress positions was designed to cause muscle fatigue, physical discomfort and exhaustion.
Sleep deprivation
Sleep deprivation was employed routinely and was seen as a key tool in enhanced interrogations. Many of these techniques overlap with other interrogation procedures – the use of stress positions, and in particular shackling a standing detainee with his hands in front of his body.
Among the most infamous was the use of loud music and white noise, sometimes played for 24 hours a day on short loops. Cells were also reportedly kept deliberately cold to prevent detainees falling asleep. The agency was authorized to keep a detainee awake for up to 180 hours – about a week – but told the Justice Department it only kept three detainees awake for 96 hours maximum.
Eleven of the 14 detainees interviewed by the ICRC said they had been subjected to sleep deprivation. One said: “If I started to fall asleep a guard would come and spray water in my face.”
The torture report reveals that four detainees, each with “medical complications in their lower extremities”, including two with broken feet, were placed in shackled standing positions for “extended periods of time” to induce sleep deprivation.
The men with broken feet, Abu Hazim and Abd al-Karim who sustained the injuries whilst trying to escape capture, were also subjected to walling, stress positions and cramped confinement, despite recommendations that their injuries prevented this form of interrogation.
Forced nudity and restricted diets
The CIA viewed certain techniques as “conditioning” measures, designed to get detainees used to their helplessness rather than yielding any intelligence value on their own. Sleep deprivation was in this category. So was stripping a detainee naked, which a 2005 memo from the Justice Department to the CIA said carried the benefit of “reward[ing] detainees instantly with clothing for cooperation.” (While keeping a detainee naked “might cause embarrassment,” a Justice Department lawyer wrote, it did not itself constitute “sexual abuse” or the threat of sexual abuse.)
Another “conditioning” technique involved feeding a detainee “a bland, commercial liquid meal” instead of normal food. The CIA set caloric intake guidelines – a recommended minimum was 1,500 calories daily – and relied on medical personnel, who are sworn to do no harm to their patients, to ensure detainees did not lose more than 10% of their body weight. A Justice Department memo understood the dietary manipulation could “increase the effectiveness of other techniques, such as sleep deprivation.
Shocking cases in CIA report reveal an American torture program in disarray
Janat Gul begged the CIA for death.
Delivered to the CIA in July 2004 by a foreign ally, Gul was thought to have intelligence about an attack on the US planned to take place ahead of the presidential election. Condoleezza Rice, the national security adviser, authorized CIA director George Tenet to use all approved torture techniques on him save waterboarding. Soon he was hallucinating, seeing his family in the mirror.
A CIA cable recorded: Gul “asked to die, or just to be killed.”
There had been doubts about the intelligence justifying Gul’s capture even before the CIA had him in custody. One official said in March 2004 it was “vague” and “worthless in terms of actionable intelligence.” In August of that year, CIA officials at Gul’s detention site twice reported they did not think he was withholding information. But the response from headquarters was to continue torturing him, apparently out of fear of missing information on the threat.
By October 2004, Gul’s accuser recanted. It is unclear if that accuser gave up Gul in the first place after he was himself tortured. The CIA transferred Gul to an unknown foreign partner, and he was ultimately freed.
As Gul’s previously unknown case indicates, years of leaks and occasional official disclosures about the CIA’s post-9/11 torture efforts did not reveal a program as brutal, unaccountable and even chaotic as the one portrayed by the Senate intelligence committee on Tuesday. The committee’s report portrays a feedback loop: the CIA embraced torture, then failed to question and review its value.
“Having initially cited Gul’s knowledge of the pre-election threat, as reported by the CIA’s source, the CIA began representing that its enhanced interrogation techniques were required for Gul to deny the existence of the threat, thereby disproving the credibility of the CIA source,” the report found

Perhaps being from a different culture you can't comprehend how the rational western mind recoils in horror at such abuses. After more fully assimilating into your adopted culture you will grow a conscience.

P.S. There are hundreds more of these stories and much worse. If I have time I will continue posting them
I'm sure eventually your humanity will be activated, overcoming the social retardation inherited from your previous cultural deprivation.

 

[PoliticalChic]

The SAFE Act requires the heads of DHS, FBI, and Director of National Intelligence to personally sign off on each refugee. I don't think that makes the vetting process any more stringent. It will certainly increase the time it takes to process refugees. It's not really a solution to the problem though.

Forcing people to assume awkward positions for extended periods of time IS torture. It's a practice that has been in use for centuries. Similar to some oubliettes found in medieval castles throughout Europe and the boxes American POWs were put into during WWII and Vietnam. It's not the most gruesome or painful, but torture nonetheless. I'm on the fence about sleep deprivation. Particularly when it comes to the validity of the information being retrieved from a person in that mind state.

"Forcing people to assume awkward positions for extended periods of time IS torture."

No it's not.


"Similar to some oubliettes..."

I'm for oubliettes, too.



Perhaps you'd rather providing some of that in your avi for terrorists, huh?

 

[PoliticalChic]

How many times do I have to warn you to stick to words you can define??????

You're a rightwing extremist cult member. That is not assimilation into America.

I'm an American who would like to see America continue.

You might say that, too...but in your case it would be a verification of your name, the NYLiar.

No, you're a rightwing extremist and rightwing extremism is anything but good for America.

Jeezus, you threw Ronald Reagan under the bus the other day because he didn't destroy Social Security.

Never happened.

So you never quoted Lincoln about disagreeing with someone, when I pointed out that Reagan saved Social Security?

Can I get you to deny this 3 times before the cock crows this morning?

So you admit that "... you threw Ronald Reagan under the bus the other day because he didn't destroy Social Security" is merely one more of your stick in trade, lies?

Great.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Now, with an insane man in the Oval Office who demands hundreds of thousands of Middle Easterners be brought into the country, oblivious to worldwide terrorism in support of a caliphate, he has threatened to veto any increased vetting of these individuals

I doubt that's true.

You should never doubt me.


"The House of Representatives has easily passed a GOP-authored bill to restrict the admission of Iraqi and Syrian refugees to America by requiring extra security procedures.

It's unclear whether the Senate will take up the legislation, says NPR's Arnie Seipel. If the bill does pass through Congress, President Obama has pledged to veto it. But if the House were voting on a veto override, they'd need no more than 290 votes — just one more than they had Thursday — to overrule the president." House Votes To Increase Security Checks On Refugees From Iraq, Syria

 

[rightwinger]

1. Having control of the media serves the Left well!
After 9/11, in an effort to weaken and undermine Bush's efforts against terrorism, the Liberals/Democrats shouted that enhanced interrogation was "TORTURE!!!"

Now, with an insane man in the Oval Office who demands hundreds of thousands of Middle Easterners be brought into the country, oblivious to worldwide terrorism in support of a caliphate, he has threatened to veto any increased vetting of these individuals

"The White House on Wednesday threatened a presidential veto of House Republican legislation aimed at increasing screenings for Syrian and Iraqi refugees before they enter the United States, calling new requirements in the bill "untenable.""
Obama Threatens to Veto House GOP Bill on Syrian Refugees


Can cries of "TORTURE!!!" be far behind?
So....before the Left engages in the usual societal indoctrination.....let's remind all of what torture actually is.



2.. Having co-opted and controlled the various agencies that disseminate information has proven to be a boon to the Leftists/Liberals who now control this secular society. In the ObamaCare legislation, the panel whose efforts would have resulted in death was not allowed to be called a "Death Panel."

So much control that they used language as a cudgel to restrict the Bush administration's attempt gain valuable information from captured Islamic terrorists.
The attempt used benign methods, none of which could actually be called 'torture.'

But labeled 'torture,' they were.


Then, there is actual torture.
3. "In a public square in Beijing in 1904, multiple murderer Wang Weiqin was executed before a crowd of onlookers. He was among the last to suffer the extreme punishment known as lingchi. Called by Western observers “death by a thousand cuts” or “death by slicing,” this penalty was reserved for the very worst crimes in imperial China.

A unique interdisciplinary history, "Death by a Thousand Cuts" is the first book to explore the history, iconography, and legal contexts of Chinese tortures and executions from the tenth century until lingchi's abolition in 1905. The authors then turn their attention to an in-depth investigation of “oriental” tortures in the Western imagination."
https://books.google.com/booksid=7TfWj_N6QXYC&dq=exquisite+torture+Kublai+Khan's+court&sitesec=reviews

"Death by a Thousand Cuts"
By Timothy Brook, Jérôme Bourgon, Gregory Blue




a. "Lingchi... translated variously asdeath by a thousand cuts(simplified Chinese:杀千刀;traditional Chinese:殺千刀) or “千刀万剐”, theslow process, thelingering death, orslow slicing, was a form of torture andexecutionused in Chinafrom roughly AD 900 until it was banned in 1905.


In this form of execution, a knife was used to methodically remove portions of the body over an extended period of time, eventually resulting in death. The term "língchí" is derived from a classical description of ascending a mountain slowly.Lingchiwas reserved for crimes viewed as especially severe, such as treason, or killing one's parents.


The process involved tying the condemned prisoner to a wooden frame, usually in a public place. The flesh was then cut from the body in multiple slices in a process that was not specified in detail in Chinese law, and therefore most likely varied. In later times, opiumwas sometimes administered either as an act of mercy or as a way of preventing fainting. The punishment worked on three levels: as a form of public humiliation, as a slow and lingering death, and as a punishment after death." Lingchi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




Depriving a suspect of sleep?
Having a suspect to stand in uncomfortable positions for many hours at a time?
Torture?

How long before reading a Political Chic post is called torture?

 

[PoliticalChic]

"So much control that they used language as a cudgel to restrict the Bush administration's attempt gain valuable information from captured Islamic terrorists.
The attempt used benign methods, none of which could actually be called 'torture.'

Why did these "benign methods" result in the death of several detainees?

If the methods were not illegal torture why were so many detainees moved incognito around the world to "black sites"?

If waterboarding is not torture why has the U.S.A prosecuted perpertrators of this method in the past?

"Japanese soldiers other than the Class A war criminals were also prosecuted for mistreatment of American prisoners—and water torture “loomed large in the evidence presented against them.” For instance, at the Yokohama Class B and C War Crimes Trials in 1947, Yukio Asano, an interpreter, faced a charge of violating “the laws and customs of war” through these specific acts:

Specification 1: That in or about July or August, 1943, the accused Yukio Asano, did willfully and unlawfully, brutally mistreat and torture Morris O. Killough, an American Prisoner of War, by beating and kicking him, by fastening him on a stretcher and pouring water up his nostrils."

Perhaps the most heinous aspect of these "enhanced interrogation techniques" is that the victims often turned out to be innocent and caught up in indiscriminate sweeps or turned in by revenge seeking informers.

.” He underwent the process 83 times, while another of the CIA’s highest-value detainees, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, said to be the principal architect of the 9/11 attacks, was subjected to waterboarding 183 times.
Beatings and threats
Many detainees have reported being beaten by interrogators, and the CIA memo mentions a number of approved methods of physical contact, including “facial holds”, “insult slaps” and “attention grasps”.
Most of those interviewed by the ICRC alleged that these beatings often occurred in the immediate aftermath of their capture, often multiple times in the day.
One detainee said: “I was punched and slapped in the face and on the back, to the extent that I was bleeding. While having a rope round my neck and being tied to a pillar, my head was banged against the pillar repeatedly.”
Six of the detainees said they were slammed into walls after having a collar placed around their necks. The CIA called it “walling”: a fake, flexible wall is constructed and a detainee is thrown against it, creating a loud noise. The noise is designed to make the detainee believe they are injured.
Detainees also reported threats of severe violence and sexual assault made against them and their families. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed told the ICRC he was threatened with being brought to the “verge of death and back again”.
The torture report notes that at least three detainees were threatened with harm to their families. Interrogators implied to Nashiri that his mother would be brought in front of him and sexually abused. The report also notes one detainee was told his mother’s throat would be cut. It is not clear which detainee this references.
The torture report confirms that Nashiri was threatened with a pistol placed near his head and a cordless drill that was operated near his body. Nashiri was blindfolded at the time.
“Al-Nashiri did not provide any additional threat information during, or after, these interrogations,” the report concludes

Stress positions
A variety of stress positions were used by the CIA. Ten terror suspects alleged to the ICRC that these included beingtold to stand upright and shackled to the ceiling for up to three days, and in some cases at intervals for over three months. Other stress positions included being shackled to the floor with arms stretched over the head.
Three detainees interviewed by the ICRC said they were forced to urinate and defecate on themselves in these positions, and were left standing in their own excrement.
The use of stress positions was designed to cause muscle fatigue, physical discomfort and exhaustion.
Sleep deprivation
Sleep deprivation was employed routinely and was seen as a key tool in enhanced interrogations. Many of these techniques overlap with other interrogation procedures – the use of stress positions, and in particular shackling a standing detainee with his hands in front of his body.
Among the most infamous was the use of loud music and white noise, sometimes played for 24 hours a day on short loops. Cells were also reportedly kept deliberately cold to prevent detainees falling asleep. The agency was authorized to keep a detainee awake for up to 180 hours – about a week – but told the Justice Department it only kept three detainees awake for 96 hours maximum.
Eleven of the 14 detainees interviewed by the ICRC said they had been subjected to sleep deprivation. One said: “If I started to fall asleep a guard would come and spray water in my face.”
The torture report reveals that four detainees, each with “medical complications in their lower extremities”, including two with broken feet, were placed in shackled standing positions for “extended periods of time” to induce sleep deprivation.
The men with broken feet, Abu Hazim and Abd al-Karim who sustained the injuries whilst trying to escape capture, were also subjected to walling, stress positions and cramped confinement, despite recommendations that their injuries prevented this form of interrogation.
Forced nudity and restricted diets
The CIA viewed certain techniques as “conditioning” measures, designed to get detainees used to their helplessness rather than yielding any intelligence value on their own. Sleep deprivation was in this category. So was stripping a detainee naked, which a 2005 memo from the Justice Department to the CIA said carried the benefit of “reward[ing] detainees instantly with clothing for cooperation.” (While keeping a detainee naked “might cause embarrassment,” a Justice Department lawyer wrote, it did not itself constitute “sexual abuse” or the threat of sexual abuse.)
Another “conditioning” technique involved feeding a detainee “a bland, commercial liquid meal” instead of normal food. The CIA set caloric intake guidelines – a recommended minimum was 1,500 calories daily – and relied on medical personnel, who are sworn to do no harm to their patients, to ensure detainees did not lose more than 10% of their body weight. A Justice Department memo understood the dietary manipulation could “increase the effectiveness of other techniques, such as sleep deprivation.
Shocking cases in CIA report reveal an American torture program in disarray
Janat Gul begged the CIA for death.
Delivered to the CIA in July 2004 by a foreign ally, Gul was thought to have intelligence about an attack on the US planned to take place ahead of the presidential election. Condoleezza Rice, the national security adviser, authorized CIA director George Tenet to use all approved torture techniques on him save waterboarding. Soon he was hallucinating, seeing his family in the mirror.
A CIA cable recorded: Gul “asked to die, or just to be killed.”
There had been doubts about the intelligence justifying Gul’s capture even before the CIA had him in custody. One official said in March 2004 it was “vague” and “worthless in terms of actionable intelligence.” In August of that year, CIA officials at Gul’s detention site twice reported they did not think he was withholding information. But the response from headquarters was to continue torturing him, apparently out of fear of missing information on the threat.
By October 2004, Gul’s accuser recanted. It is unclear if that accuser gave up Gul in the first place after he was himself tortured. The CIA transferred Gul to an unknown foreign partner, and he was ultimately freed.
As Gul’s previously unknown case indicates, years of leaks and occasional official disclosures about the CIA’s post-9/11 torture efforts did not reveal a program as brutal, unaccountable and even chaotic as the one portrayed by the Senate intelligence committee on Tuesday. The committee’s report portrays a feedback loop: the CIA embraced torture, then failed to question and review its value.
“Having initially cited Gul’s knowledge of the pre-election threat, as reported by the CIA’s source, the CIA began representing that its enhanced interrogation techniques were required for Gul to deny the existence of the threat, thereby disproving the credibility of the CIA source,” the report found

Perhaps being from a different culture you can't comprehend how the rational western mind recoils in horror at such abuses. After more fully assimilating into your adopted culture you will grow a conscience.

P.S. There are hundreds more of these stories and much worse. If I have time I will continue posting them
I'm sure eventually your humanity will be activated, overcoming the social retardation inherited from your previous cultural deprivation.

A Liberal canard.

Now for the truth.

1. Waterboarding is considered by many on the left to be torture only because it occurred during the hated Bush administration.

Had it occurred during the Obama administration it would be lauded as an "effective, non-lethal, humane information gathering technique".


2. The Japanese used to perform experimental operations on downed American pilots. They performed these operations without using any type of anesthesia. When they waterboarded, they would cane the prisoner's belly while he was being waterboarded. This apparently increased the level of pain and panic exponentially. These are not--in kind or in degree--the same offenses that the Americans are charged with....


3. When they waterboarded, they would cane the prisoner's belly while he was being waterboarded. This apparently increased the level of pain and panic exponentially. These are not--in kind or in degree--the same offenses that the Americans are charged with....agree. To be clear to everybody, what the Japanese were doing was like the Americans only in the sense that:
- folks were tied on a board
- there was water.

The basic Japanese approach was to force ingestion of large amounts of water, then beat your distended stomach, causing pain and rupture of organs.

It was not the mental panic approach that we call waterboarding today.


4. Thank you for allowing me to point out the difference between waterboarding we do and waterboarding done by the Japanese...
Althouse: Americans think the Bush adminstration used torture.

 

[PoliticalChic]

1. Having control of the media serves the Left well!
After 9/11, in an effort to weaken and undermine Bush's efforts against terrorism, the Liberals/Democrats shouted that enhanced interrogation was "TORTURE!!!"

Now, with an insane man in the Oval Office who demands hundreds of thousands of Middle Easterners be brought into the country, oblivious to worldwide terrorism in support of a caliphate, he has threatened to veto any increased vetting of these individuals

"The White House on Wednesday threatened a presidential veto of House Republican legislation aimed at increasing screenings for Syrian and Iraqi refugees before they enter the United States, calling new requirements in the bill "untenable.""
Obama Threatens to Veto House GOP Bill on Syrian Refugees


Can cries of "TORTURE!!!" be far behind?
So....before the Left engages in the usual societal indoctrination.....let's remind all of what torture actually is.



2.. Having co-opted and controlled the various agencies that disseminate information has proven to be a boon to the Leftists/Liberals who now control this secular society. In the ObamaCare legislation, the panel whose efforts would have resulted in death was not allowed to be called a "Death Panel."

So much control that they used language as a cudgel to restrict the Bush administration's attempt gain valuable information from captured Islamic terrorists.
The attempt used benign methods, none of which could actually be called 'torture.'

But labeled 'torture,' they were.


Then, there is actual torture.
3. "In a public square in Beijing in 1904, multiple murderer Wang Weiqin was executed before a crowd of onlookers. He was among the last to suffer the extreme punishment known as lingchi. Called by Western observers “death by a thousand cuts” or “death by slicing,” this penalty was reserved for the very worst crimes in imperial China.

A unique interdisciplinary history, "Death by a Thousand Cuts" is the first book to explore the history, iconography, and legal contexts of Chinese tortures and executions from the tenth century until lingchi's abolition in 1905. The authors then turn their attention to an in-depth investigation of “oriental” tortures in the Western imagination."
https://books.google.com/booksid=7TfWj_N6QXYC&dq=exquisite+torture+Kublai+Khan's+court&sitesec=reviews

"Death by a Thousand Cuts"
By Timothy Brook, Jérôme Bourgon, Gregory Blue




a. "Lingchi... translated variously asdeath by a thousand cuts(simplified Chinese:杀千刀;traditional Chinese:殺千刀) or “千刀万剐”, theslow process, thelingering death, orslow slicing, was a form of torture andexecutionused in Chinafrom roughly AD 900 until it was banned in 1905.


In this form of execution, a knife was used to methodically remove portions of the body over an extended period of time, eventually resulting in death. The term "língchí" is derived from a classical description of ascending a mountain slowly.Lingchiwas reserved for crimes viewed as especially severe, such as treason, or killing one's parents.


The process involved tying the condemned prisoner to a wooden frame, usually in a public place. The flesh was then cut from the body in multiple slices in a process that was not specified in detail in Chinese law, and therefore most likely varied. In later times, opiumwas sometimes administered either as an act of mercy or as a way of preventing fainting. The punishment worked on three levels: as a form of public humiliation, as a slow and lingering death, and as a punishment after death." Lingchi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




Depriving a suspect of sleep?
Having a suspect to stand in uncomfortable positions for many hours at a time?
Torture?

How long before reading a Political Chic post is called torture?

You may stop at any time.

Somehow....you've been unable to, but lie and claim not to have read same.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Now, with an insane man in the Oval Office who demands hundreds of thousands of Middle Easterners be brought into the country, oblivious to worldwide terrorism in support of a caliphate, he has threatened to veto any increased vetting of these individuals

I doubt that's true.

She had no problem when we imported hundreds of thousands... of SE Asians after Nam....

Any of 'em terrorists?

 

[Siete]

1. Having control of the media serves the Left well!
After 9/11, in an effort to weaken and undermine Bush's efforts against terrorism, the Liberals/Democrats shouted that enhanced interrogation was "TORTURE!!!"

Now, with an insane man in the Oval Office who demands hundreds of thousands of Middle Easterners be brought into the country, oblivious to worldwide terrorism in support of a caliphate, he has threatened to veto any increased vetting of these individuals

"The White House on Wednesday threatened a presidential veto of House Republican legislation aimed at increasing screenings for Syrian and Iraqi refugees before they enter the United States, calling new requirements in the bill "untenable.""
Obama Threatens to Veto House GOP Bill on Syrian Refugees


Can cries of "TORTURE!!!" be far behind?
So....before the Left engages in the usual societal indoctrination.....let's remind all of what torture actually is.



2.. Having co-opted and controlled the various agencies that disseminate information has proven to be a boon to the Leftists/Liberals who now control this secular society. In the ObamaCare legislation, the panel whose efforts would have resulted in death was not allowed to be called a "Death Panel."

So much control that they used language as a cudgel to restrict the Bush administration's attempt gain valuable information from captured Islamic terrorists.
The attempt used benign methods, none of which could actually be called 'torture.'

But labeled 'torture,' they were.


Then, there is actual torture.
3. "In a public square in Beijing in 1904, multiple murderer Wang Weiqin was executed before a crowd of onlookers. He was among the last to suffer the extreme punishment known as lingchi. Called by Western observers “death by a thousand cuts” or “death by slicing,” this penalty was reserved for the very worst crimes in imperial China.

A unique interdisciplinary history, "Death by a Thousand Cuts" is the first book to explore the history, iconography, and legal contexts of Chinese tortures and executions from the tenth century until lingchi's abolition in 1905. The authors then turn their attention to an in-depth investigation of “oriental” tortures in the Western imagination."
https://books.google.com/booksid=7TfWj_N6QXYC&dq=exquisite+torture+Kublai+Khan's+court&sitesec=reviews

"Death by a Thousand Cuts"
By Timothy Brook, Jérôme Bourgon, Gregory Blue




a. "Lingchi... translated variously asdeath by a thousand cuts(simplified Chinese:杀千刀;traditional Chinese:殺千刀) or “千刀万剐”, theslow process, thelingering death, orslow slicing, was a form of torture andexecutionused in Chinafrom roughly AD 900 until it was banned in 1905.


In this form of execution, a knife was used to methodically remove portions of the body over an extended period of time, eventually resulting in death. The term "língchí" is derived from a classical description of ascending a mountain slowly.Lingchiwas reserved for crimes viewed as especially severe, such as treason, or killing one's parents.


The process involved tying the condemned prisoner to a wooden frame, usually in a public place. The flesh was then cut from the body in multiple slices in a process that was not specified in detail in Chinese law, and therefore most likely varied. In later times, opiumwas sometimes administered either as an act of mercy or as a way of preventing fainting. The punishment worked on three levels: as a form of public humiliation, as a slow and lingering death, and as a punishment after death." Lingchi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




Depriving a suspect of sleep?
Having a suspect to stand in uncomfortable positions for many hours at a time?
Torture?

How long before reading a Political Chic post is called torture?

right now ... that's why I skipped the first 5 pages.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Actually the road that the liberal left always travels is "it for the children." In this case Obama went one step further and said that opposition was oppostion to "Women and Orphans."

Abortion: "it's for the children."

Why do you hate children? (other than for the acceptable reasons, lol)

There are thousands of American children that need help. As soon as they are all taken care of Obama could consider taking care of Syrian children. Until then various aid agencies could be funded by the UN to feed, clothe and shelter these refugees in safe middle eastern countries where they could return home as soon as Obama destroys ISIS. LOL It is published that 12 refugees can be taken care of for the cost of bringing 1 refugee to the US. If Obama really gave a damn about children he would promote that publicly and introduce a resolution in the UN.

The UN is pushing the resettlement...

Is that the very same United Nations authored by Joseph Stalin and Alger Hiss?

That one?

 

[PoliticalChic]

1. Having control of the media serves the Left well!
After 9/11, in an effort to weaken and undermine Bush's efforts against terrorism, the Liberals/Democrats shouted that enhanced interrogation was "TORTURE!!!"

Now, with an insane man in the Oval Office who demands hundreds of thousands of Middle Easterners be brought into the country, oblivious to worldwide terrorism in support of a caliphate, he has threatened to veto any increased vetting of these individuals

"The White House on Wednesday threatened a presidential veto of House Republican legislation aimed at increasing screenings for Syrian and Iraqi refugees before they enter the United States, calling new requirements in the bill "untenable.""
Obama Threatens to Veto House GOP Bill on Syrian Refugees


Can cries of "TORTURE!!!" be far behind?
So....before the Left engages in the usual societal indoctrination.....let's remind all of what torture actually is.



2.. Having co-opted and controlled the various agencies that disseminate information has proven to be a boon to the Leftists/Liberals who now control this secular society. In the ObamaCare legislation, the panel whose efforts would have resulted in death was not allowed to be called a "Death Panel."

So much control that they used language as a cudgel to restrict the Bush administration's attempt gain valuable information from captured Islamic terrorists.
The attempt used benign methods, none of which could actually be called 'torture.'

But labeled 'torture,' they were.


Then, there is actual torture.
3. "In a public square in Beijing in 1904, multiple murderer Wang Weiqin was executed before a crowd of onlookers. He was among the last to suffer the extreme punishment known as lingchi. Called by Western observers “death by a thousand cuts” or “death by slicing,” this penalty was reserved for the very worst crimes in imperial China.

A unique interdisciplinary history, "Death by a Thousand Cuts" is the first book to explore the history, iconography, and legal contexts of Chinese tortures and executions from the tenth century until lingchi's abolition in 1905. The authors then turn their attention to an in-depth investigation of “oriental” tortures in the Western imagination."
https://books.google.com/booksid=7TfWj_N6QXYC&dq=exquisite+torture+Kublai+Khan's+court&sitesec=reviews

"Death by a Thousand Cuts"
By Timothy Brook, Jérôme Bourgon, Gregory Blue




a. "Lingchi... translated variously asdeath by a thousand cuts(simplified Chinese:杀千刀;traditional Chinese:殺千刀) or “千刀万剐”, theslow process, thelingering death, orslow slicing, was a form of torture andexecutionused in Chinafrom roughly AD 900 until it was banned in 1905.


In this form of execution, a knife was used to methodically remove portions of the body over an extended period of time, eventually resulting in death. The term "língchí" is derived from a classical description of ascending a mountain slowly.Lingchiwas reserved for crimes viewed as especially severe, such as treason, or killing one's parents.


The process involved tying the condemned prisoner to a wooden frame, usually in a public place. The flesh was then cut from the body in multiple slices in a process that was not specified in detail in Chinese law, and therefore most likely varied. In later times, opiumwas sometimes administered either as an act of mercy or as a way of preventing fainting. The punishment worked on three levels: as a form of public humiliation, as a slow and lingering death, and as a punishment after death." Lingchi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




Depriving a suspect of sleep?
Having a suspect to stand in uncomfortable positions for many hours at a time?
Torture?

How long before reading a Political Chic post is called torture?

right now ... that's why I skipped the first 5 pages.

Wow....still using the very same excuse you used during your school career!

 

[PoliticalChic]

And now, back to real torture.

The royal torturer, 'the Fondler,' goes on to explain how he goes about his ....vocation.


5. "... we have one thousand inscribed and folded little papers. Every time a man or woman is sentenced to the Death of a Thousand, before I commence my attentions to the Subject, I have my assistants newly mix and toss and tumble those papers in the basket. I do that mainly to reduce the likelihood of repetition in the Fondling, which might be unnecessarily distressing to the Subject or boring to me.”

“Excuse me, Master Ping. But all of this—this writing and folding and tossing of papers—what has this to do with death?”

“Death? It has to do with dying.... “Any crude barbarian can kill a Subject. But artfully to lead and guide and beckon and cajole a man or woman through the dying—ah, for that, the Fondler!”



“After having been purged and evacuated, to avert unseemly accidents, the Subject is securely but not uncomfortably tied erect between two posts, so that I can easily do the Fondling at his or her front or back or side, as required.

My work tray has three hundred and thirty-six compartments, each neatly labeled with the name of a bodily part, and in each reposes one or several instruments exquisitely designed to be used on that certain part. Depending on whether the part is of flesh or sinew or muscle or membrane or sac or gristle, the implements may be knives of certain shapes, or awls, probes, needles, tweezers, scrapers. The instruments are newly whetted and polished, and my assistants are ready —my Blotters of Fluids and Retrievers of Pieces. " Jennings, Op.Cit.

 

[Siete]

1. Having control of the media serves the Left well!
After 9/11, in an effort to weaken and undermine Bush's efforts against terrorism, the Liberals/Democrats shouted that enhanced interrogation was "TORTURE!!!"

Now, with an insane man in the Oval Office who demands hundreds of thousands of Middle Easterners be brought into the country, oblivious to worldwide terrorism in support of a caliphate, he has threatened to veto any increased vetting of these individuals

"The White House on Wednesday threatened a presidential veto of House Republican legislation aimed at increasing screenings for Syrian and Iraqi refugees before they enter the United States, calling new requirements in the bill "untenable.""
Obama Threatens to Veto House GOP Bill on Syrian Refugees


Can cries of "TORTURE!!!" be far behind?
So....before the Left engages in the usual societal indoctrination.....let's remind all of what torture actually is.



2.. Having co-opted and controlled the various agencies that disseminate information has proven to be a boon to the Leftists/Liberals who now control this secular society. In the ObamaCare legislation, the panel whose efforts would have resulted in death was not allowed to be called a "Death Panel."

So much control that they used language as a cudgel to restrict the Bush administration's attempt gain valuable information from captured Islamic terrorists.
The attempt used benign methods, none of which could actually be called 'torture.'

But labeled 'torture,' they were.


Then, there is actual torture.
3. "In a public square in Beijing in 1904, multiple murderer Wang Weiqin was executed before a crowd of onlookers. He was among the last to suffer the extreme punishment known as lingchi. Called by Western observers “death by a thousand cuts” or “death by slicing,” this penalty was reserved for the very worst crimes in imperial China.

A unique interdisciplinary history, "Death by a Thousand Cuts" is the first book to explore the history, iconography, and legal contexts of Chinese tortures and executions from the tenth century until lingchi's abolition in 1905. The authors then turn their attention to an in-depth investigation of “oriental” tortures in the Western imagination."
https://books.google.com/booksid=7TfWj_N6QXYC&dq=exquisite+torture+Kublai+Khan's+court&sitesec=reviews

"Death by a Thousand Cuts"
By Timothy Brook, Jérôme Bourgon, Gregory Blue




a. "Lingchi... translated variously asdeath by a thousand cuts(simplified Chinese:杀千刀;traditional Chinese:殺千刀) or “千刀万剐”, theslow process, thelingering death, orslow slicing, was a form of torture andexecutionused in Chinafrom roughly AD 900 until it was banned in 1905.


In this form of execution, a knife was used to methodically remove portions of the body over an extended period of time, eventually resulting in death. The term "língchí" is derived from a classical description of ascending a mountain slowly.Lingchiwas reserved for crimes viewed as especially severe, such as treason, or killing one's parents.


The process involved tying the condemned prisoner to a wooden frame, usually in a public place. The flesh was then cut from the body in multiple slices in a process that was not specified in detail in Chinese law, and therefore most likely varied. In later times, opiumwas sometimes administered either as an act of mercy or as a way of preventing fainting. The punishment worked on three levels: as a form of public humiliation, as a slow and lingering death, and as a punishment after death." Lingchi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




Depriving a suspect of sleep?
Having a suspect to stand in uncomfortable positions for many hours at a time?
Torture?

How long before reading a Political Chic post is called torture?

right now ... that's why I skipped the first 5 pages.

Wow....still using the very same excuse you used during your school career!

yup, and still managed a 3.3 gpa and two degrees.

 

[PoliticalChic]

1. Having control of the media serves the Left well!
After 9/11, in an effort to weaken and undermine Bush's efforts against terrorism, the Liberals/Democrats shouted that enhanced interrogation was "TORTURE!!!"

Now, with an insane man in the Oval Office who demands hundreds of thousands of Middle Easterners be brought into the country, oblivious to worldwide terrorism in support of a caliphate, he has threatened to veto any increased vetting of these individuals

"The White House on Wednesday threatened a presidential veto of House Republican legislation aimed at increasing screenings for Syrian and Iraqi refugees before they enter the United States, calling new requirements in the bill "untenable.""
Obama Threatens to Veto House GOP Bill on Syrian Refugees


Can cries of "TORTURE!!!" be far behind?
So....before the Left engages in the usual societal indoctrination.....let's remind all of what torture actually is.



2.. Having co-opted and controlled the various agencies that disseminate information has proven to be a boon to the Leftists/Liberals who now control this secular society. In the ObamaCare legislation, the panel whose efforts would have resulted in death was not allowed to be called a "Death Panel."

So much control that they used language as a cudgel to restrict the Bush administration's attempt gain valuable information from captured Islamic terrorists.
The attempt used benign methods, none of which could actually be called 'torture.'

But labeled 'torture,' they were.


Then, there is actual torture.
3. "In a public square in Beijing in 1904, multiple murderer Wang Weiqin was executed before a crowd of onlookers. He was among the last to suffer the extreme punishment known as lingchi. Called by Western observers “death by a thousand cuts” or “death by slicing,” this penalty was reserved for the very worst crimes in imperial China.

A unique interdisciplinary history, "Death by a Thousand Cuts" is the first book to explore the history, iconography, and legal contexts of Chinese tortures and executions from the tenth century until lingchi's abolition in 1905. The authors then turn their attention to an in-depth investigation of “oriental” tortures in the Western imagination."
https://books.google.com/booksid=7TfWj_N6QXYC&dq=exquisite+torture+Kublai+Khan's+court&sitesec=reviews

"Death by a Thousand Cuts"
By Timothy Brook, Jérôme Bourgon, Gregory Blue




a. "Lingchi... translated variously asdeath by a thousand cuts(simplified Chinese:杀千刀;traditional Chinese:殺千刀) or “千刀万剐”, theslow process, thelingering death, orslow slicing, was a form of torture andexecutionused in Chinafrom roughly AD 900 until it was banned in 1905.


In this form of execution, a knife was used to methodically remove portions of the body over an extended period of time, eventually resulting in death. The term "língchí" is derived from a classical description of ascending a mountain slowly.Lingchiwas reserved for crimes viewed as especially severe, such as treason, or killing one's parents.


The process involved tying the condemned prisoner to a wooden frame, usually in a public place. The flesh was then cut from the body in multiple slices in a process that was not specified in detail in Chinese law, and therefore most likely varied. In later times, opiumwas sometimes administered either as an act of mercy or as a way of preventing fainting. The punishment worked on three levels: as a form of public humiliation, as a slow and lingering death, and as a punishment after death." Lingchi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




Depriving a suspect of sleep?
Having a suspect to stand in uncomfortable positions for many hours at a time?
Torture?

How long before reading a Political Chic post is called torture?

right now ... that's why I skipped the first 5 pages.

Wow....still using the very same excuse you used during your school career!

yup, and still managed a 3.3 gpa and two degrees.

Yes...but it was at the Robert Fiance School of Cosmetology and Hair Braiding.

I went to a real school.

 

[ogibillm]

Intensive vetting is not torture.
Nor is enhanced interrogation.

This is.

In his most detailed and well researched novel of the travels of Marco Polo, "The Journeyer," Gary Jennings has Kublai Khan's Royal Executioner, 'the Fondler,' explain the exquisite path he provides to death.... most slow and painful.

Torture.




4. "“Lord Marco, it is named the Death of a Thousand because it requires one thousand small pieces of silk paper, folded and tossed haphazard in a basket. Each paper bears a word or two, no more than three, signifying some part of the human body. Navel or right elbow or upper lip or left middle toe or whatever.


Of course, there are not one thousand parts to the human body—at any rate, not one thousand capable of feeling sensation, like a fingertip, say, or being caused cessation of function, like a kidney.


To be precise, there are, by the traditional Fondler’s Count, only three hundred and thirty-six such parts. So the inscribed papers are almost all in triplicate. That is to say, three hundred and thirty-two parts of the body are thrice written on separate papers, making a total of nine hundred and ninety-six. Are you following this, Lord Marco?”



...you will have noted that there are four parts of the body not inscribed thrice on the papers. Those four are written only once apiece, on the four papers remaining of the thousand. I will later explain why—if you have not guessed by then." Jenning, "The Journeyer"


Have you guessed why those four pieces of paper are....special?

Hooray! Fiction!