How Israel Used Its Own Civilians as Human Shields While Assaulting Gaza

[Crystalclear]

Hey - no problem there at all.
Just let me emphasize that I'm absolutely against Hamas and fully believe Israel has every right of existence within borders that must be negotiated.
However, Israel is taking actions that must be considered illegal in its expansion in West Bank and its treatment of Gaza. And, these actions appear to be making any resolution impossible.
Having been embargoed since 2006 is not some small thing. Embargoes such as recently imposed are acts of war. They cause death of civilians. They destroy the economy. They prevent hope. And, even after 8 long years of that punishment, Israel has offered no peaceful way out. Why should Israel (or any other nation) not fully expect war given that situation? Would ANY other region not go to war over a neighbor imposing the conditions that Israel imposes on Gaza?

The wall in the West Bank was built to stop suicide bombers coming into Israel and the blockade of Gaza was to stop the militarisation of terrorist groups and as long as Hamas exists those security means should not be removed.
But I agree Israel has to do something about those Jewish religious extremists expanding
their settlements in the West Bank. It is unfair to the Arab population living there.

I Know the 'Wall' sound intimidating like a ghetto wall and the pictures and graffiti on the Palestinian side is very inspiring - don't be mistaken, I bet you got a fence and you have great relationship with your neighbors, but here in Israel we got suicide bombers to tractor driving over innocents, to be honest the rocks are only a threat when it come from Israeli Arabs, that's why Israel paved roads far as possible from any Arab town in the WB and Palestinians have nothing to do with them since the end of the road leads to a checkpoint entry to Israel..so this is the so called 'Israeli only roads' and like many facts that sound terrible - this require a much more investigation in detail before bringing up all these claims and statements, and for the safety of Israelis - we built a wall to keep them away from us, like most Israeli settlements in the WB - they are surrounded by walls and heavily guarded by the settlers, unlike Palestinian towns/villages/cities because you can't even be seen there or you'll be dead - lynched type of dead.. -

I agree, I support the wall, security fence or whatever sounds less intimidating to you. I've never mentioned to be against it.

The debate about the settlements are being illegal/legal is pretty much off topic when people are dying everyday,

It's not off topic, the settlements have always been a source for hostilites. And I'm not against the current settlements because the settlers have been there for several years but oppose new settlements.

being assaulted everyday,
and what else not, but no Palestinian leader ever care, they keep saying 'our people is dying' but this is only to serve the Palestinian agenda, if they would've really care I think they would've beg for ceasefire and I'm not talking about Hamas now, I'm talking about Abbas the leader of

Spoiler: Fatah

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VHm4Ubxu-E

Of course the Palestinians don't care, otherwise there would have been a ceasefire and there wouldn't be launching sites near schools or hospitals.

So before we break everything here let me bring up 4 points and you'll tell me if this is about Israel or the Palestinians.
1.Palestinians (Along with the Egyptian-Hamas 'The Muslim Brotherhood') - Tried to take over Egypt and called war on Israel regardless of the peace treaty.
2.Palestinians (Along with Syria[HUMANITARIAN SYRIA] in Jordan) - Tried to take over Jordan violently and assassinate the king.
3.Palestinians (Along with Hezbullah) - Succeed to take over Lebanon..(The refugees are in Israel of course)
4.Palestinians (Along with Israeli Arabs) - Trying to take over Israel...

Are these a trustworthy people? Lets focus over this part first, because for peace you need two, you can analyze 4 different events involving Palestinians violence and 4 different actions made.

I'm pro-Israel. There's actually not much of a discussion.

You know handing over the entire Sinai Peninsula wasn't a problem for Israel although we could have rule the oil market with some Israeli technology and much more funding..just for peace,

I've used this argument before in another discusssion.

so few settlements is the real issue when people dying?

The current ones approved of by Israel not, but Israel should avoid new settlements, because that would lead to a new source for conflicts.

So something is probably wrong, lets finish discussing about the Palestinians first.
[MENTION=48190]Crystalclear[/MENTION] [MENTION=46231]WillReadmore[/MENTION]

There's not much to discuss actually.
I stand with Israel, the only thing is that I do not agree with extremists wanting to build new settlements.
And if you are honest: Do you support new settlements?

 

[Crystalclear]

The "Wall" was built on land that isn't Israel's. The ICC found it to be illegal.


It has nothing to do with suicide bombers coming into Israel.

The "wall" was built because of suicide bombers and terrorists coming in from the West Bank. It was built to defend Israel. Nothing wrong with that.

Wrong! The blockade was to punish Gazans because Israel didn't like who they voted for.

Because they voted for Hamas. The Palestinians voted for a party that wanted to fight Israel. So again, a means of security, so Hamas could not easily import weapons.

It's none of Israel's god-damn business who Gazans choose to represent them.

If the Gazans vote for Hamas, it is Israel's business.

I agree.

So we agree on something

 

[Billo_Really]

The "wall" was built because of suicide bombers and terrorists coming in from the West Bank. It was built to defend Israel. Nothing wrong with that.

There's a lot wrong with building structures on land that isn't yours.

That "Iron Curtain" is in the West Bank, not along the Green Line. So it has nothing to do with preventing someone from getting into Israel. It surrounds illegal settlements populated by Israeli insurgents in violation of international law.

And everyone in those settlements are legal targets.

Because they voted for Hamas. The Palestinians voted for a party that wanted to fight Israel.

They voted for Hamas because the PA is a corrupt little Israeli bitch.

And they don't "want" to fight Israel, Israel gives them no choice.

Palestinians maintain that their military resistance to Israel is for the freedom and safety of their people, not an issue of racial hatred. Before his assassination at the age of 67, Hamas founder Sheikh Ahmed Yassin rahimahu Allah said, “We only ask for our right, nothing more. We don’t hate Jews or fight the Jews because they are Jewish. Jews are people of religion and we are people of religion, and we love all people of religion… We love all people even the Jews and we wish the Jews well. The Jews lived with us for years and we never transgressed against their rights.”

After Israel’s bombardment of Gaza in 2012, Hamas’ political bureau chief Khaled Meshaal reasserted Hamas’ readiness for a ‘long-term truce’ in spite of the destruction, provided that Israel ended its occupation of the West Bank, East Jerusalem and Gaza—in other words, that it abided by international law. In his speech he confirmed that Hamas is “ready to resort to a peaceful way, apurely peaceful way without blood and weapons.” Even now Meshaal is prepared for an immediate truce with Israel if the siege on Gaza is lifted.

All they want is their inalienable rights and be allowed to live in freedom.

Israel has no right in the world to deny them their freedom.

So again, a means of security, so Hamas could not easily import weapons.

Why can't Hamas have weapons?

Are you saying they have no right to defend themselves against aggression from a foreign army?

If the Gazans vote for Hamas, it is Israel's business.

What kind of horseshit is that? You think you have the right to tell others how to live on their own property? Is that what you think? Why don't you come over to my house and try to tell me what's what under my own roof and see what happens next? I will personally show you just how wrong that is.

Israel has no right whatsoever telling others who their leaders can (and cannot) be. It's none of your god-damn business who Gazans vote for. What you need to do, is spend more time stopping Israeli terrorism against its neighbors.

 

[Billo_Really]

Actually, what she said about you is 100% correct.

Shouldn't your (and her) claims about "mind reading" be in the conspiracy forum?

Are you really that arrogant to think you know what goes on inside another persons brain?

You are a brainwashed sheep and you believe EVERYTHING you read as long as it vilifies Israel.

How do you know what I believe and what I read? Israel is vilified, for the things Israel should be vilified for, not because of any predisposition I have towards that country.

Why do you and your fucked up minions always personally attack anyone who criticizes Israel? No matter what the criticism is, or how valid, your standard response is to kill the messenger.

And your Nazi comparisons prove that you're as dumb as a brick!

The comparisons I've stated, are right on the money!

You demonize the Palestinians 24/7, just like the Nazis demonized the Jews.
You accept any violence against the Palestinians (no matter how horrific), just like average Germans accepted violence against the Jews.
You treat them as though they are sub-human, just like the Nazis treated the Jews.​

How is that not true?

Shouldn't you be asking for Israel to be nuked like you did last month?

I pray to Jesus Israel gets nuked!

Zionists don't deserve a country, if this is what they're going to do with it.

If this is how they're going to act, then they deserve to be driven into the sea and wiped out.

 

[Billo_Really]

Billo,
You've got to mix it up a bit.
You're almost as boring as george.

Okay...........um................

Did you hear about the Jewish kid who went to his father to borrow fifty dollars?

His father said, "Forty dollars! What do you want to borrow thirty dollars for?"

No? Oh well, I guess I'm boring!

Care to comment on why Israel embeds its troops in civilian communities surrounding Gaza?

 

[Billo_Really]

Are you refferring to Hamas as innocent civilians?

I'm referring to all the ones who take no part in hostilities, as innocent civilians.

 

[Crystalclear]

If Gazans vote for a terrorist party saying they will fight Israel, it is Israel's business.
Hamas shouldn't be allowed to have weapons because they have always planned to attack Israel. That's just preventing war.

The security fence in the West Bank was because of all the suicide bombers coming in, look it up.
And Israel so had the right to build the wall.

 

[Crystalclear]

I take back my opinion about the settlements, some settlements for the Jews should be possible.

 

[Phoenall]

Actually, what she said about you is 100% correct.

Shouldn't your (and her) claims about "mind reading" be in the conspiracy forum?

Are you really that arrogant to think you know what goes on inside another persons brain?

You are a brainwashed sheep and you believe EVERYTHING you read as long as it vilifies Israel.

How do you know what I believe and what I read? Israel is vilified, for the things Israel should be vilified for, not because of any predisposition I have towards that country.

Why do you and your fucked up minions always personally attack anyone who criticizes Israel? No matter what the criticism is, or how valid, your standard response is to kill the messenger.

And your Nazi comparisons prove that you're as dumb as a brick!

The comparisons I've stated, are right on the money!

You demonize the Palestinians 24/7, just like the Nazis demonized the Jews.
You accept any violence against the Palestinians (no matter how horrific), just like average Germans accepted violence against the Jews.
You treat them as though they are sub-human, just like the Nazis treated the Jews.​

How is that not true?

Shouldn't you be asking for Israel to be nuked like you did last month?

I pray to Jesus Israel gets nuked!

Zionists don't deserve a country, if this is what they're going to do with it.

If this is how they're going to act, then they deserve to be driven into the sea and wiped out.

Don't need to be a mind reader when you come out with such as this
" I pray to Jesus Israel gets nuked "


When you come out with I pray to Jesus Israel gets nuked! it is obvious what you are thinking

We know what you believe when you make posts like this

More to the point why do you, and use immature profanities because you don't have the intelligence to do any other

ISLAMONAZI TERRORISTS don't deserve to live, nor do their stooges who see no wrong in their LIES, VIOLENCE and MURDERS. Telling the world that hamas never fired a rocket at Israel in the months prior to July of this year, then changing it to hamas responding to Israel attacks 4 days later. Further changing it to Israel attacking hamas for no reason and missing out the rocket attacks in the previous 12 hours. Now what does this tell the board about what you think dildo, other than you are a RABID ANTI SEMITIC NAZI JEW HATING ISLAMONAZI STOOGE

 

[Phoenall]

Billo,
You've got to mix it up a bit.
You're almost as boring as george.

Okay...........um................

Did you hear about the Jewish kid who went to his father to borrow fifty dollars?

His father said, "Forty dollars! What do you want to borrow thirty dollars for?"

No? Oh well, I guess I'm boring!

Care to comment on why Israel embeds its troops in civilian communities surrounding Gaza?

To shoot the hamas terrorists that come skulking out of their tunnels to murder Israeli children.

Care to comment on hamas erecting rocket launchers next door to the Hotel they have forced the journalists to use, or using hospitals to fire rockets at Israel from..........

 

[Phoenall]

Are you refferring to Hamas as innocent civilians?

I'm referring to all the ones who take no part in hostilities, as innocent civilians.

Is that the definition embodied in International law and the Geneva conventions or your definition that includes powder monkees and human shields as being non hostiles ?

 

[WillReadmore]

I Know the 'Wall' sound intimidating like a ghetto wall and the pictures and graffiti on the Palestinian side is very inspiring - don't be mistaken, I bet you got a fence and you have great relationship with your neighbors, but here in Israel we got suicide bombers to tractor driving over innocents, to be honest the rocks are only a threat when it come from Israeli Arabs, that's why Israel paved roads far as possible from any Arab town in the WB and Palestinians have nothing to do with them since the end of the road leads to a checkpoint entry to Israel..so this is the so called 'Israeli only roads' and like many facts that sound terrible - this require a much more investigation in detail before bringing up all these claims and statements, and for the safety of Israelis - we built a wall to keep them away from us, like most Israeli settlements in the WB - they are surrounded by walls and heavily guarded by the settlers, unlike Palestinian towns/villages/cities because you can't even be seen there or you'll be dead - lynched type of dead.. -
The debate about the settlements are being illegal/legal is pretty much off topic when people are dying everyday, being assaulted everyday, and what else not, but no Palestinian leader ever care, they keep saying 'our people is dying' but this is only to serve the Palestinian agenda, if they would've really care I think they would've beg for ceasefire and I'm not talking about Hamas now, I'm talking about Abbas the leader of

If the wall were on 1967 borders or even if it just stayed in one place, I might agree.

But, the wall is being used for purposes other than security - it is used for capturing land from West Bank. Security walls don't take circuitous routes up river valleys. And, they follow borders rather than encircling more and more farm land, water, etc. as time goes by.

And, no, both the occupation and the resistance to the occupation have to be part of the discussion. What country has EVER tolerated an occupation of this kind? You would like to pitch the violence as some separate issue unrelated to the occupation, the theft, the ethnic cleansing. But, there is NO legitimate justification for seeing one as terrorist and the other as not terrorist when the one action is ethnic cleansing and the other action is resistance to that ethnic cleansing inside one's own homeland.

 

[Daniyel]

Its a special wall made of reinforced concrete with nano tech development that shrink the was inside every second ..are you THAT looney? !

 

[WillReadmore]

The wall in the West Bank was built to stop suicide bombers coming into Israel and the blockade of Gaza was to stop the militarisation of terrorist groups and as long as Hamas exists those security means should not be removed.
But I agree Israel has to do something about those Jewish religious extremists expanding their settlements in the West Bank. It is unfair to the Arab population living there.

Citizens of Gaza can not continue to live under the embargo imposed by Israel.

I agree that Hamas needs to be removed - EVEN THOUGH current Hamas leaders have stated that Israel is permanent.

Gaza can not be at peace while its population sits in the world's largest prison and watches their families suffer with no hope.

Before this war, Hamas acceded to the unity government of Abbas, which has no Hamas seats. That should have been considered a victory. Instead, Netanyahu traveled the world demanding that nations deny that government. Then, as promised he tightened the embargo on Gaza to unlivable levels - even denying fishing rights in Gaza's waters.

THAT was an act of war, and it is what caused Hamas to fire the rockets that incited Israel's invasion.

The embargo has been in place since 2006, with NO specification of what could ever cause it to be removed. Where is the precedent for that kind of collective punishment for an act such as forming a legitimate government?

 

[Daniyel]

Stop Launching Rockets - make it easy for you to remember SLR
There is a partially sea blockade - no there's no embargo, not a siege, not even a blockade, and no occupation on Gaza

 

[Billo_Really]

I take back my opinion about the settlements, some settlements for the Jews should be possible.

So according to your logic, you're saying it was okay for Hitler to annex Poland?

 

[Billo_Really]

Hamas shouldn't be allowed to have weapons because they have always planned to attack Israel. That's just preventing war.

Doesn't matter what Hamas does, Israel will just make up lies to attack Gaza.

And Israel so had the right to build the wall.

What makes you think you have the right to build structures on someone else's property?

 

[Billo_Really]

Don't need to be a mind reader when you come out with such as this
" I pray to Jesus Israel gets nuked "


When you come out with I pray to Jesus Israel gets nuked! it is obvious what you are thinking

We know what you believe when you make posts like this

Why are you getting all worked up over my prayers to Jesus? To you, HE was just some Ted Nugent lookin' dude, with no guitar skills.

More to the point why do you, and use immature profanities because you don't have the intelligence to do any other

Israel's laser guided, 1000 pound bombs, dropped on innocent civilians in Gaza, is a lot worse than my use of the f-word.

ISLAMONAZI TERRORISTS don't deserve to live, nor do their stooges who see no wrong in their LIES, VIOLENCE and MURDERS.

How German of you to say that?

Telling the world that hamas never fired a rocket at Israel in the months prior to July of this year,

I didn't say that.

then changing it to hamas responding to Israel attacks 4 days later.

I didn't say that, either.

Further changing it to Israel attacking hamas for no reason and missing out the rocket attacks in the previous 12 hours.

And I definitely didn't say that.

Now what does this tell the board about what you think dildo, other than you are a RABID ANTI SEMITIC NAZI JEW HATING ISLAMONAZI STOOGE

What were you saying about being "immature"?

 

[aris2chat]

If the US was under threat, like 9/11, It can close it's borders, close the airports and seaports. If a neighbor was obtaining dangerous weapons, like cuba and the russian missiles, it can set up a blockade.
That is what Israel has done.

There is not reason a country like India has to allow Pakistanis to enter and look for jobs or seek medical care. There is only one crossing between those two countries and it is closed every night.

All the middle east state, except for Jordan and Egypt. Do not permit Israelis to enter,nor products made in Israel. Anyone that was just in Israel is not permitted to enter a middle east state.
My grandmother wanted to visit Jerusalem, before she died, so I flew to Jordan, took a bus to Allenby, get another bus to Jerusalem. Then return the same way, the same day.
I was a long uncomfortable trip with long periods of waiting at Jordanian checkpoints.

Travel in other countries and continents have their own lengthy and difficult entry and exits and means of transportation can be very uncomfortable, slow and crowded.

Now since 9/11 it is a complex matter to enter some buildings including hospitals. Scanners, metal detectors, pat downs, bag searches. Getting on planes you can only take certain items and limited sizes. You have to know what is banned. You have to be able to remove your shoes and walking through detectors/X-ray machines just to get on a plane. Live has changed because of violence, in large part because of the hatred in the muslim world for jews and Israel.
The same way the middle east was carved up, Israel has as much right to exist. It is not Israel that is apartheid, but the muslims countries. It is not Israel that treats non-jews as lesser citizens, but the muslim countries. It is not Israel that is the problem but muslims who won't accept or talk to Israel. People who look down on foreigners, women and even muslims of other sects. Countries that have strict restrictions on press and information, how people dress and behave.

Israel is not the problem, prejudice is.

 

[Billo_Really]

If the US was under threat, like 9/11, It can close it's borders, close the airports and seaports. If a neighbor was obtaining dangerous weapons, like cuba and the russian missiles, it can set up a blockade.
That is what Israel has done.

You do realize the "threat level" is a little different between a Quassam rocket and a nuclear tipped ICBM?

There is not reason a country like India has to allow Pakistanis to enter and look for jobs or seek medical care. There is only one crossing between those two countries and it is closed every night.

India and Pakistan are mortal enemies.

All the middle east state, except for Jordan and Egypt. Do not permit Israelis to enter,nor products made in Israel. Anyone that was just in Israel is not permitted to enter a middle east state.

What about the 30,000 Jews living in Iran?

My grandmother wanted to visit Jerusalem, before she died, so I flew to Jordan, took a bus to Allenby, get another bus to Jerusalem. Then return the same way, the same day.
I was a long uncomfortable trip with long periods of waiting at Jordanian checkpoints.

But those checkpoints were in Jordan, not someone else's country.

Travel in other countries and continents have their own lengthy and difficult entry and exits and means of transportation can be very uncomfortable, slow and crowded.

But that is within their territorial borders. Israel can do whatever it wants, in Israel. It cannot do whatever it wants, on someone else's land.

Now since 9/11 it is a complex matter to enter some buildings including hospitals. Scanners, metal detectors, pat downs, bag searches. Getting on planes you can only take certain items and limited sizes. You have to know what is banned. You have to be able to remove your shoes and walking through detectors/X-ray machines just to get on a plane. Live has changed because of violence, in large part because of the hatred in the muslim world for jews and Israel.

What about your hatred for them?

The same way the middle east was carved up, Israel has as much right to exist.

Nobody is questioning that.

It is not Israel that is apartheid, but the muslims countries.

How about your both apartheid?

It is not Israel that treats non-jews as lesser citizens, but the muslim countries.

No, you treat non-Jews as lesser citizens.

It is not Israel that is the problem but muslims who won't accept or talk to Israel.

Israel won't talk to Hamas, that's not Hamas's problem.

People who look down on foreigners, women and even muslims of other sects.

You look down on Palestinians.

Countries that have strict restrictions on press and information, how people dress and behave.

And all foreign journalists covering this war must have their reports vetted by the IDF before publishing them.

Israel is not the problem, prejudice is.

Germans felt the same way towards the Holocaust, until Eisenhower made them bury the dead.