Debate? What Debate...??

[Humanity]

I generally take a look at most posts here, from both sides of the wall, so to speak.

One thing that is clear and evident is that there is, generally speaking, is that there is very little debate...

The horrendous thing that I have noticed is the abuse and racist comments from the zionists on this forum whenever someone dares to make even the slightest comment that does not fall into the political beliefs of the zionist.

This article pretty much sums up MOST of the zionist posts here...

Is Zionism/ Jewish Nationalism a Political Cult? The Salaita Firing | Informed Comment

I am pretty confident that very few zionist members here will even both reading the article and would much prefer to post a load of abuse against me.... It's ok... 1) won't be the first time 2) its exactly what this well informed article is all about...

For those non zionists, have a read and you will understand exactly why there is no debate only abuse!

 

[Beelzebub]

Honestly, the Israel side here don't want to debate but to block or obfuscate criticism of Israel / The IDF / Zionism.

Which is fine. The refuse to debate mostly because they are not up to it. Some who are see the logical weakness of their official perspective, so steer away from logical rhetoric.

But they are interesting to demonstrate why being wrong will not change Israel's attitude or policies. That is where anyone concerned needs to make real pressure for change.

The best pressure is money.
Cut off their supplies (USA - as soon as you can please)
And increase their costs. Many ways of doing this.
BDS sort of helps with both.

In any case Israel and Zionism need to finish. They have done little good and a wh-whole passel of bad.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

I generally take a look at most posts here, from both sides of the wall, so to speak.

One thing that is clear and evident is that there is, generally speaking, is that there is very little debate...

The horrendous thing that I have noticed is the abuse and racist comments from the zionists on this forum whenever someone dares to make even the slightest comment that does not fall into the political beliefs of the zionist.

This article pretty much sums up MOST of the zionist posts here...

Is Zionism/ Jewish Nationalism a Political Cult? The Salaita Firing | Informed Comment

I am pretty confident that very few zionist members here will even both reading the article and would much prefer to post a load of abuse against me.... It's ok... 1) won't be the first time 2) its exactly what this well informed article is all about...

For those non zionists, have a read and you will understand exactly why there is no debate only abuse!

I must admit that the most cordial Zionists here are the non-Jewish ones like Rocco and Kondor. Usually, the behavior that you see here isn't typical of Jews--at least not the ones that I know.

 

[hammer2]

Honestly, the Israel side here don't want to debate but to block or obfuscate criticism of Israel / The IDF / Zionism.

Which is fine. The refuse to debate mostly because they are not up to it. Some who are see the logical weakness of their official perspective, so steer away from logical rhetoric.

But they are interesting to demonstrate why being wrong will not change Israel's attitude or policies. That is where anyone concerned needs to make real pressure for change.

The best pressure is money.
Cut off their supplies (USA - as soon as you can please)
And increase their costs. Many ways of doing this.
BDS sort of helps with both.

In any case Israel and Zionism need to finish. They have done little good and a wh-whole passel of bad.

Ok, let's debate.

First question: What would be your first step to solve the Pal/Israeli problem?

 

[Humanity]

I generally take a look at most posts here, from both sides of the wall, so to speak.

One thing that is clear and evident is that there is, generally speaking, is that there is very little debate...

The horrendous thing that I have noticed is the abuse and racist comments from the zionists on this forum whenever someone dares to make even the slightest comment that does not fall into the political beliefs of the zionist.

This article pretty much sums up MOST of the zionist posts here...

Is Zionism/ Jewish Nationalism a Political Cult? The Salaita Firing | Informed Comment

I am pretty confident that very few zionist members here will even both reading the article and would much prefer to post a load of abuse against me.... It's ok... 1) won't be the first time 2) its exactly what this well informed article is all about...

For those non zionists, have a read and you will understand exactly why there is no debate only abuse!

I must admit that the most cordial Zionists here are the non-Jewish ones like Rocco and Kondor. Usually, the behavior that you see here isn't typical of Jews--at least not the ones that I know.

Please note....

In my post I did not use the word "Jew"...

Zionism is not a religion, its a political belief and has very little to do with being Jewish!

I agree, the behaviour here is not typical of Jews, certainly not of the Jews I know either!!

It's about time people started recognising the difference between religion and politics...

 

[Daniyel]

Zionism is the term for Israeli Patriotism.. Where are you going with this? another crappy-link to de-legitimize Israel/Jews/Jewish/Zionists?
Here you can see an Israeli Arab Zionist.

 

[teddyearp]

Humanity, I feel in some ways the same as you said in the first 2-1/2 sentences of your OP. I stopped right where you said 'Zionist' because that and 'Islamonazi' (or something like that) is where I always stop reading.

So many threads here have hit and run flame posts without any substance to them. And these posts come from both sides. I have gotten to the point where I usually try not to even pay much attention to said posters. From both sides and right about when they start using those key words.

The first person to reply to this thread is one who IMHO is one of the latest worse offenders; although I am not sure it has used too much those words, it sure has never posted anything intellectually of any worth at all.

Many times I have thought about posting something with a similar title as yours on this, or just "Thank you" but I am sick and tired of the hate and name calling.

So, I even though I know we are basically on different sides of the 'fence' you can take some of this with a grain of salt and see past the hate in what you seek here and elsewhere about this conflict.

Sorry I didn't answer your whole post, but I told you where I left off . . . . .

 

[RoccoR]

hammer2; et al,

The first step to ending any conflict is the exact same: to set the conditions by which negotiation and mediation for peace talks can occur.

Ok, let's debate.

First question: What would be your first step to solve the Pal/Israeli problem?

(COMMENT)

Israeli - Palestinian Armistice​

Both sides entering into a formalized unconditional arrangement that involves the separation of the belligerents and a complete ceasefire; with new Armistice Lines drawn and the demilitarization of a buffer zone.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Humanity]

Humanity, I feel in some ways the same as you said in the first 2-1/2 sentences of your OP. I stopped right where you said 'Zionist' because that and 'Islamonazi' (or something like that) is where I always stop reading.

So many threads here have hit and run flame posts without any substance to them. And these posts come from both sides. I have gotten to the point where I usually try not to even pay much attention to said posters. From both sides and right about when they start using those key words.

The first person to reply to this thread is one who IMHO is one of the latest worse offenders; although I am not sure it has used too much those words, it sure has never posted anything intellectually of any worth at all.

Many times I have thought about posting something with a similar title as yours on this, or just "Thank you" but I am sick and tired of the hate and name calling.

So, I even though I know we are basically on different sides of the 'fence' you can take some of this with a grain of salt and see past the hate in what you seek here and elsewhere about this conflict.

Sorry I didn't answer your whole post, but I told you where I left off . . . . .

teddyearp...

"different sides of the 'fence'"? Well I'm not so sure about that...

You see, we may have slightly differing views on the situation BUT we both, I hope, want to see peace!

I am not about to get into the 'peace' debate here as that can be dealt with in another thread and, yes, I am sure that the debate will be interesting...

However, the ultimate goal has to be peace in the region and not the hate, the abuse, the historical 'facts'(?)...

It's not about who had what, where and when... It's about the future of the region and the lives of everyone living there, whatever the race or religion....

To be honest I really do not care which race or religion used to be the most predominant in the region 3000 years ago... I am far more interested in the future, a peaceful future...

We can't change history, although there are often attempts on this very forum to do so, but we can change the future...

 

[proudveteran06]

Humanity, I feel in some ways the same as you said in the first 2-1/2 sentences of your OP. I stopped right where you said 'Zionist' because that and 'Islamonazi' (or something like that) is where I always stop reading.

So many threads here have hit and run flame posts without any substance to them. And these posts come from both sides. I have gotten to the point where I usually try not to even pay much attention to said posters. From both sides and right about when they start using those key words.

The first person to reply to this thread is one who IMHO is one of the latest worse offenders; although I am not sure it has used too much those words, it sure has never posted anything intellectually of any worth at all.

Many times I have thought about posting something with a similar title as yours on this, or just "Thank you" but I am sick and tired of the hate and name calling.

So, I even though I know we are basically on different sides of the 'fence' you can take some of this with a grain of salt and see past the hate in what you seek here and elsewhere about this conflict.

Sorry I didn't answer your whole post, but I told you where I left off . . . . .

teddyearp...

"different sides of the 'fence'"? Well I'm not so sure about that...

You see, we may have slightly differing views on the situation BUT we both, I hope, want to see peace!

I am not about to get into the 'peace' debate here as that can be dealt with in another thread and, yes, I am sure that the debate will be interesting...

However, the ultimate goal has to be peace in the region and not the hate, the abuse, the historical 'facts'(?)...

It's not about who had what, where and when... It's about the future of the region and the lives of everyone living there, whatever the race or religion....

To be honest I really do not care which race or religion used to be the most predominant in the region 3000 years ago... I am far more interested in the future, a peaceful future...

We can't change history, although there are often attempts on this very forum to do so, but we can change the future...

To make this short and sweet;

The Palestinians want borders that were never recognized before, No Israelis Allowed in" Palestine" and " right of return" which will eventually annex Israel to the Palestinian State.

None of the above is going to happen. What would be your solution for " peace".

 

[Daniyel]

Humanity, I feel in some ways the same as you said in the first 2-1/2 sentences of your OP. I stopped right where you said 'Zionist' because that and 'Islamonazi' (or something like that) is where I always stop reading.

So many threads here have hit and run flame posts without any substance to them. And these posts come from both sides. I have gotten to the point where I usually try not to even pay much attention to said posters. From both sides and right about when they start using those key words.

The first person to reply to this thread is one who IMHO is one of the latest worse offenders; although I am not sure it has used too much those words, it sure has never posted anything intellectually of any worth at all.

Many times I have thought about posting something with a similar title as yours on this, or just "Thank you" but I am sick and tired of the hate and name calling.

So, I even though I know we are basically on different sides of the 'fence' you can take some of this with a grain of salt and see past the hate in what you seek here and elsewhere about this conflict.

Sorry I didn't answer your whole post, but I told you where I left off . . . . .

teddyearp...

"different sides of the 'fence'"? Well I'm not so sure about that...

You see, we may have slightly differing views on the situation BUT we both, I hope, want to see peace!

I am not about to get into the 'peace' debate here as that can be dealt with in another thread and, yes, I am sure that the debate will be interesting...

However, the ultimate goal has to be peace in the region and not the hate, the abuse, the historical 'facts'(?)...

It's not about who had what, where and when... It's about the future of the region and the lives of everyone living there, whatever the race or religion....

To be honest I really do not care which race or religion used to be the most predominant in the region 3000 years ago... I am far more interested in the future, a peaceful future...

We can't change history, although there are often attempts on this very forum to do so, but we can change the future...

To make this short and sweet;

The Palestinians want borders that were never recognized before, No Israelis Allowed in" Palestine" and " right of return" which will eventually annex Israel to the Palestinian State.

None of the above is going to happen. What would be your solution for " peace".

Itbakh alyahud/isreil *beism Allah elrahim of course!!

 

[RoccoR]

et al,

The "right=of-return" must be conditional if it is to be rationally considered. The unconditional right-of-return is essentially advocating that Israel be overrun with 5 million Arab-Palestinians. The consequence of which would be the collapse of the Israeli economy and the cascade failure of the state. That is the destruction of Israel by other means.

No one is going to permit the total collapse and destruction of Israel by any means, let alone by allowing it to be overrun.

If the right-of-return is an uncompromising position held by the Arab Palestinian, then the status quo and continued conflict is to be the more rational choice.

It is not reasonable to assume, given the already demonstrated inability of the Arab Palestinian for self-government, that any regional power would want another failed Arab State in the Levant. And no one expects that Israel is going to allow such a turn of events without a military conflict that would inflict as much damage on the aggressor as would be inflicted upon them. That would be an expansion of the conflict to a regional scale.

Most Respectfully,
R