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Once again, the OP shows her lack of understanding beyond cherry picked quotes without context. Canaris was not the powerful authority the OP attempts to project. He was the chief of the military intelligence service, which was not the primary intelligence service in Nazi Germany. He did not outrank the Gestapo and SS. His role was restricted to gathering and analizing military intelligence for the German military. He had the position of a DIA chief in America, not the chief of the CIA and FBI. Gestapo and SS ruled, not the intelligence gathering arm of the military.3. One of the highest anti-Nazi Germans was the chief of Nazi Germany's military intelligence division, the Abwehr, Admiral Wm. Canaris. Try as he might, the Allies would not open communications channels with Canaris .
a. "Wilhelm Franz Canaris (1 January 1887 – 9 April 1945) was a German admiral, and chief of the Abwehr, the German military intelligence service, from 1935 to 1944. During the Second World War, he was among the military officers involved in the clandestine opposition to Adolf Hitler and the Nazi regime.... "Wilhelm Canaris - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
b. A few weeks before the war ended, Canaris was hanged by he Nazis. Hanged twice: "once to show him what death tasted like."
“Canaris Hanging Related,” New York Times, October 11, 1952.
German resistance to Nazism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The term German resistance should not be understood as meaning that there was a united resistance movement in Germany at any time during the Nazi period,[1] analogous to the more coordinated Polish Underground State, Greek Resistance, Yugoslav Partisans, French Resistance, and Italian Resistance. The German resistance consisted of small and usually isolated groups. They were unable to mobilize political opposition. Save for individual attacks on Nazis (including Hitler) or sabotage acts, the only real strategy was to persuade leaders of the Wehrmacht to stage a coup against the regime: the 1944 assassination attempt against Hitler was intended to trigger such a coup.[1]
Approximately 77,000 German citizens were killed for one or another form of resistance by Special Courts, courts-martial, People's Court and the civil justice system. Many of these Germans had served in government, the military, or in civil positions, which enabled them to engage in subversion and conspiracy; in addition the Canadian historian Peter Hoffman counts unspecified "tens of thousands" in concentration camps who were either suspected or actually engaged in opposition.[2] By contrast, the German historian Hans Mommsen wrote that resistance in Germany was "resistance without the people" and that the number of those Germans engaged in resistance to the Nazi regime was very small
This is the group that Frau Braun wanted FDR to mobilize and take over Germany at the height of the Nazis power
False.
1. I provided proof that FDR's own fact-finder, George Earle, met with and agreed with the German resistance, and kept trying to get FDR to agree to it.
2. I provided proof that 'Wild Bill' Donovan, FDR' selection to head the OSS (future CIA) had agents meet with the German underground, and then sent reports pleading with FDR to agree to a treaty to end the war.
And this....
3. One of the highest anti-Nazi Germans was the chief of Nazi Germany's military intelligence division, the Abwehr, Admiral Wm. Canaris. Try as he might, the Allies would not open communications channels with Canaris .
a. "Wilhelm Franz Canaris (1 January 1887 – 9 April 1945) was a German admiral, and chief of the Abwehr, the German military intelligence service, from 1935 to 1944. During the Second World War, he was among the military officers involved in the clandestine opposition to Adolf Hitler and the Nazi regime.... "Wilhelm Canaris - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
b. A few weeks before the war ended, Canaris was hanged by he Nazis. Hanged twice: "once to show him what death tasted like."
“Canaris Hanging Related,” New York Times, October 11, 1952.
c. Britain's intelligence chief said this about Canaris: 'It is said that had it not been for the Foreign Office's fear of offending Russia that he might have established direct contact with the admiral [Canaris] in 1942 on the removal of Hitler as a means of shortening the war."
“Gen. Menzies, Ex-British Intelligence Chief, Dies,” New York Times, May 31, 1968.
Did you see the date: 1942. When did the war with Germany finally end?
"May 7, 1945: Germany surrenders unconditionally to the Allies at Reims" Germany surrenders unconditionally to the Allies at Reims ? History.com This Day in History ? 5/7/1945
What prevented an earlier conclusion to the war?
"... fear of offending Russia..."
Fear of offending, it seems to me, suggests a relationship with one's superiors....
i.e., Roosevelt considered Stalin his superior.
Not enough????
OK....more:
Let's look at a primary source, Allen Dulles,first civilian to head the CIA, and its longest serving director. In "Germany's Underground: The Anti-Nazi Resistance," Dulles wrote of thatthe German was the only anti-Nazi underground not supported by the United States. (p.22).
On page 140, Dulles states "The plotters (anti-Nazi German resistance)....were told clearly and repeatedly that we had made common cause with Russia...." as the reason they were frozen out.
The NYTimes told the same story, March 18, 1946: "Full Story of Anti-Hitler Plot Shows That Allies Refused To Assist."
And this:
....what did America gain by not supporting the German resistance movement, which would have turned Hitler over to the Allies, ended the war at least two years earlier than it ended, .....
....and all it would have cost the world is the absence of the Cold War, no Korean nor Vietnam Wars, and no Soviet occupation of Eastern Europe...
...and a bonus: 200,000 fewer American dead.
All that cut and paste.......none supporting your claims
Canaris was no magic solution to ending the war.
He was unable to negotiate a surrender with the Russians knocking on the doors of Berlin, yet you expect him to be able to surrender in 1942 at the peak of Nazi power
Canaris was tortured and executed for his efforts
You have failed miserably at providing a credible alternate ending where the Germans would have completely surrendered in 1942. The reason is that your claims are ludicrous
German resistance to Nazism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The term German resistance should not be understood as meaning that there was a united resistance movement in Germany at any time during the Nazi period,[1] analogous to the more coordinated Polish Underground State, Greek Resistance, Yugoslav Partisans, French Resistance, and Italian Resistance. The German resistance consisted of small and usually isolated groups. They were unable to mobilize political opposition. Save for individual attacks on Nazis (including Hitler) or sabotage acts, the only real strategy was to persuade leaders of the Wehrmacht to stage a coup against the regime: the 1944 assassination attempt against Hitler was intended to trigger such a coup.[1]
Approximately 77,000 German citizens were killed for one or another form of resistance by Special Courts, courts-martial, People's Court and the civil justice system. Many of these Germans had served in government, the military, or in civil positions, which enabled them to engage in subversion and conspiracy; in addition the Canadian historian Peter Hoffman counts unspecified "tens of thousands" in concentration camps who were either suspected or actually engaged in opposition.[2] By contrast, the German historian Hans Mommsen wrote that resistance in Germany was "resistance without the people" and that the number of those Germans engaged in resistance to the Nazi regime was very small
This is the group that Frau Braun wanted FDR to mobilize and take over Germany at the height of the Nazis power
False.
1. I provided proof that FDR's own fact-finder, George Earle, met with and agreed with the German resistance, and kept trying to get FDR to agree to it.
2. I provided proof that 'Wild Bill' Donovan, FDR' selection to head the OSS (future CIA) had agents meet with the German underground, and then sent reports pleading with FDR to agree to a treaty to end the war.
And this....
3. One of the highest anti-Nazi Germans was the chief of Nazi Germany's military intelligence division, the Abwehr, Admiral Wm. Canaris. Try as he might, the Allies would not open communications channels with Canaris .
a. "Wilhelm Franz Canaris (1 January 1887 – 9 April 1945) was a German admiral, and chief of the Abwehr, the German military intelligence service, from 1935 to 1944. During the Second World War, he was among the military officers involved in the clandestine opposition to Adolf Hitler and the Nazi regime.... "Wilhelm Canaris - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
b. A few weeks before the war ended, Canaris was hanged by he Nazis. Hanged twice: "once to show him what death tasted like."
“Canaris Hanging Related,” New York Times, October 11, 1952.
c. Britain's intelligence chief said this about Canaris: 'It is said that had it not been for the Foreign Office's fear of offending Russia that he might have established direct contact with the admiral [Canaris] in 1942 on the removal of Hitler as a means of shortening the war."
“Gen. Menzies, Ex-British Intelligence Chief, Dies,” New York Times, May 31, 1968.
Did you see the date: 1942. When did the war with Germany finally end?
"May 7, 1945: Germany surrenders unconditionally to the Allies at Reims" Germany surrenders unconditionally to the Allies at Reims ? History.com This Day in History ? 5/7/1945
What prevented an earlier conclusion to the war?
"... fear of offending Russia..."
Fear of offending, it seems to me, suggests a relationship with one's superiors....
i.e., Roosevelt considered Stalin his superior.
Not enough????
OK....more:
Let's look at a primary source, Allen Dulles,first civilian to head the CIA, and its longest serving director. In "Germany's Underground: The Anti-Nazi Resistance," Dulles wrote of thatthe German was the only anti-Nazi underground not supported by the United States. (p.22).
On page 140, Dulles states "The plotters (anti-Nazi German resistance)....were told clearly and repeatedly that we had made common cause with Russia...." as the reason they were frozen out.
The NYTimes told the same story, March 18, 1946: "Full Story of Anti-Hitler Plot Shows That Allies Refused To Assist."
And this:
....what did America gain by not supporting the German resistance movement, which would have turned Hitler over to the Allies, ended the war at least two years earlier than it ended, .....
....and all it would have cost the world is the absence of the Cold War, no Korean nor Vietnam Wars, and no Soviet occupation of Eastern Europe...
...and a bonus: 200,000 fewer American dead.
All that cut and paste.......none supporting your claims
Canaris was no magic solution to ending the war.
He was unable to negotiate a surrender with the Russians knocking on the doors of Berlin, yet you expect him to be able to surrender in 1942 at the peak of Nazi power
Canaris was tortured and executed for his efforts
You have failed miserably at providing a credible alternate ending where the Germans would have completely surrendered in 1942. The reason is that your claims are ludicrous
....what did America gain by not supporting the German resistance movement, which would have turned Hitler over to the Allies, ended the war at least two years earlier than it ended, .....
....and all it would have cost the world is the absence of the Cold War, no Korean nor Vietnam Wars, and no Soviet occupation of Eastern Europe...
...and a bonus: 200,000 fewer American dead.
Answer the question.
German resistance to Nazism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The term German resistance should not be understood as meaning that there was a united resistance movement in Germany at any time during the Nazi period,[1] analogous to the more coordinated Polish Underground State, Greek Resistance, Yugoslav Partisans, French Resistance, and Italian Resistance. The German resistance consisted of small and usually isolated groups. They were unable to mobilize political opposition. Save for individual attacks on Nazis (including Hitler) or sabotage acts, the only real strategy was to persuade leaders of the Wehrmacht to stage a coup against the regime: the 1944 assassination attempt against Hitler was intended to trigger such a coup.[1]
Approximately 77,000 German citizens were killed for one or another form of resistance by Special Courts, courts-martial, People's Court and the civil justice system. Many of these Germans had served in government, the military, or in civil positions, which enabled them to engage in subversion and conspiracy; in addition the Canadian historian Peter Hoffman counts unspecified "tens of thousands" in concentration camps who were either suspected or actually engaged in opposition.[2] By contrast, the German historian Hans Mommsen wrote that resistance in Germany was "resistance without the people" and that the number of those Germans engaged in resistance to the Nazi regime was very small
This is the group that Frau Braun wanted FDR to mobilize and take over Germany at the height of the Nazis power
False.
1. I provided proof that FDR's own fact-finder, George Earle, met with and agreed with the German resistance, and kept trying to get FDR to agree to it.
2. I provided proof that 'Wild Bill' Donovan, FDR' selection to head the OSS (future CIA) had agents meet with the German underground, and then sent reports pleading with FDR to agree to a treaty to end the war.
And this....
3. One of the highest anti-Nazi Germans was the chief of Nazi Germany's military intelligence division, the Abwehr, Admiral Wm. Canaris. Try as he might, the Allies would not open communications channels with Canaris .
a. "Wilhelm Franz Canaris (1 January 1887 – 9 April 1945) was a German admiral, and chief of the Abwehr, the German military intelligence service, from 1935 to 1944. During the Second World War, he was among the military officers involved in the clandestine opposition to Adolf Hitler and the Nazi regime.... "Wilhelm Canaris - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
b. A few weeks before the war ended, Canaris was hanged by he Nazis. Hanged twice: "once to show him what death tasted like."
“Canaris Hanging Related,” New York Times, October 11, 1952.
c. Britain's intelligence chief said this about Canaris: 'It is said that had it not been for the Foreign Office's fear of offending Russia that he might have established direct contact with the admiral [Canaris] in 1942 on the removal of Hitler as a means of shortening the war."
“Gen. Menzies, Ex-British Intelligence Chief, Dies,” New York Times, May 31, 1968.
Did you see the date: 1942. When did the war with Germany finally end?
"May 7, 1945: Germany surrenders unconditionally to the Allies at Reims" Germany surrenders unconditionally to the Allies at Reims ? History.com This Day in History ? 5/7/1945
What prevented an earlier conclusion to the war?
"... fear of offending Russia..."
Fear of offending, it seems to me, suggests a relationship with one's superiors....
i.e., Roosevelt considered Stalin his superior.
Not enough????
OK....more:
Let's look at a primary source, Allen Dulles,first civilian to head the CIA, and its longest serving director. In "Germany's Underground: The Anti-Nazi Resistance," Dulles wrote of thatthe German was the only anti-Nazi underground not supported by the United States. (p.22).
On page 140, Dulles states "The plotters (anti-Nazi German resistance)....were told clearly and repeatedly that we had made common cause with Russia...." as the reason they were frozen out.
The NYTimes told the same story, March 18, 1946: "Full Story of Anti-Hitler Plot Shows That Allies Refused To Assist."
And this:
....what did America gain by not supporting the German resistance movement, which would have turned Hitler over to the Allies, ended the war at least two years earlier than it ended, .....
....and all it would have cost the world is the absence of the Cold War, no Korean nor Vietnam Wars, and no Soviet occupation of Eastern Europe...
...and a bonus: 200,000 fewer American dead.
All that cut and paste.......none supporting your claims
Canaris was no magic solution to ending the war.
He was unable to negotiate a surrender with the Russians knocking on the doors of Berlin, yet you expect him to be able to surrender in 1942 at the peak of Nazi power
Canaris was tortured and executed for his efforts
You have failed miserably at providing a credible alternate ending where the Germans would have completely surrendered in 1942. The reason is that your claims are ludicrous
....what did America gain by not supporting the German resistance movement, which would have turned Hitler over to the Allies, ended the war at least two years earlier than it ended, .....
....and all it would have cost the world is the absence of the Cold War, no Korean nor Vietnam Wars, and no Soviet occupation of Eastern Europe...
...and a bonus: 200,000 fewer American dead.
Answer the question.
OK ...I'll answer your question
Your question is worthy of a child playing Risk and wondering why the real world is not like that
Your premise that Germany would have or could have completely surrendered to the Americans in 1942 thereby saving us from 200,000 deaths, the Cold War, Korea, Vietnam is absolutely ridiculous no matter how many times you repeat it
You have been offered the opportunity to provide any plausible explanation of how your wild theory could have possibly come to fruition and you have fallen back on repeatedly posting the same cherry picked cut and paste
Here is your answer: Why didn't FDR accept a deal for Germany to surrender in 1942?
Because there was no such offer
1. Today, MEMORIAL DAY,.
1. Today, MEMORIAL DAY,.
Just another of your obsessive attacks on FDR because you are pissed off that he led the United States to victory in World War 2.
And just as stupid as the rest of your attacks
Memorial Day is a federal holiday in the United States for remembering the people who died while serving in the country's armed forces.[1] The holiday, which is observed every year on the last Monday of May,[2] originated as Decoration Day after the American Civil War in 1868, when the Grand Army of the Republic, an organization of Union veterans founded in Decatur, Illinois, established it as a time for the nation to decorate the graves of the Union war dead with flowers.[3] By the 20th century, competing Union and Confederate holiday traditions, celebrated on different days, had merged, and Memorial Day eventually extended to honor all Americans who died while in the military service.[1] It marks the start of the unofficial summer vacation season,[4] while Labor Day marks its end.
German resistance to Nazism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The term German resistance should not be understood as meaning that there was a united resistance movement in Germany at any time during the Nazi period,[1] analogous to the more coordinated Polish Underground State, Greek Resistance, Yugoslav Partisans, French Resistance, and Italian Resistance. The German resistance consisted of small and usually isolated groups. They were unable to mobilize political opposition. Save for individual attacks on Nazis (including Hitler) or sabotage acts, the only real strategy was to persuade leaders of the Wehrmacht to stage a coup against the regime: the 1944 assassination attempt against Hitler was intended to trigger such a coup.[1]
Approximately 77,000 German citizens were killed for one or another form of resistance by Special Courts, courts-martial, People's Court and the civil justice system. Many of these Germans had served in government, the military, or in civil positions, which enabled them to engage in subversion and conspiracy; in addition the Canadian historian Peter Hoffman counts unspecified "tens of thousands" in concentration camps who were either suspected or actually engaged in opposition.[2] By contrast, the German historian Hans Mommsen wrote that resistance in Germany was "resistance without the people" and that the number of those Germans engaged in resistance to the Nazi regime was very small
This is the group that Frau Braun wanted FDR to mobilize and take over Germany at the height of the Nazis power
False.
1. I provided proof that FDR's own fact-finder, George Earle, met with and agreed with the German resistance, and kept trying to get FDR to agree to it.
2. I provided proof that 'Wild Bill' Donovan, FDR' selection to head the OSS (future CIA) had agents meet with the German underground, and then sent reports pleading with FDR to agree to a treaty to end the war.
And this....
3. One of the highest anti-Nazi Germans was the chief of Nazi Germany's military intelligence division, the Abwehr, Admiral Wm. Canaris. Try as he might, the Allies would not open communications channels with Canaris .
a. "Wilhelm Franz Canaris (1 January 1887 – 9 April 1945) was a German admiral, and chief of the Abwehr, the German military intelligence service, from 1935 to 1944. During the Second World War, he was among the military officers involved in the clandestine opposition to Adolf Hitler and the Nazi regime.... "Wilhelm Canaris - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
b. A few weeks before the war ended, Canaris was hanged by he Nazis. Hanged twice: "once to show him what death tasted like."
“Canaris Hanging Related,” New York Times, October 11, 1952.
c. Britain's intelligence chief said this about Canaris: 'It is said that had it not been for the Foreign Office's fear of offending Russia that he might have established direct contact with the admiral [Canaris] in 1942 on the removal of Hitler as a means of shortening the war."
“Gen. Menzies, Ex-British Intelligence Chief, Dies,” New York Times, May 31, 1968.
Did you see the date: 1942. When did the war with Germany finally end?
"May 7, 1945: Germany surrenders unconditionally to the Allies at Reims" Germany surrenders unconditionally to the Allies at Reims ? History.com This Day in History ? 5/7/1945
What prevented an earlier conclusion to the war?
"... fear of offending Russia..."
Fear of offending, it seems to me, suggests a relationship with one's superiors....
i.e., Roosevelt considered Stalin his superior.
Not enough????
OK....more:
Let's look at a primary source, Allen Dulles,first civilian to head the CIA, and its longest serving director. In "Germany's Underground: The Anti-Nazi Resistance," Dulles wrote of thatthe German was the only anti-Nazi underground not supported by the United States. (p.22).
On page 140, Dulles states "The plotters (anti-Nazi German resistance)....were told clearly and repeatedly that we had made common cause with Russia...." as the reason they were frozen out.
The NYTimes told the same story, March 18, 1946: "Full Story of Anti-Hitler Plot Shows That Allies Refused To Assist."
And this:
....what did America gain by not supporting the German resistance movement, which would have turned Hitler over to the Allies, ended the war at least two years earlier than it ended, .....
....and all it would have cost the world is the absence of the Cold War, no Korean nor Vietnam Wars, and no Soviet occupation of Eastern Europe...
...and a bonus: 200,000 fewer American dead.
All that cut and paste.......none supporting your claims
Canaris was no magic solution to ending the war.
He was unable to negotiate a surrender with the Russians knocking on the doors of Berlin, yet you expect him to be able to surrender in 1942 at the peak of Nazi power
Canaris was tortured and executed for his efforts
You have failed miserably at providing a credible alternate ending where the Germans would have completely surrendered in 1942. The reason is that your claims are ludicrous
....what did America gain by not supporting the German resistance movement, which would have turned Hitler over to the Allies, ended the war at least two years earlier than it ended, .....
....and all it would have cost the world is the absence of the Cold War, no Korean nor Vietnam Wars, and no Soviet occupation of Eastern Europe...
...and a bonus: 200,000 fewer American dead.
Answer the question.
OK ...I'll answer your question
Your question is worthy of a child playing Risk and wondering why the real world is not like that
Your premise that Germany would have or could have completely surrendered to the Americans in 1942 thereby saving us from 200,000 deaths, the Cold War, Korea, Vietnam is absolutely ridiculous no matter how many times you repeat it
You have been offered the opportunity to provide any plausible explanation of how your wild theory could have possibly come to fruition and you have fallen back on repeatedly posting the same cherry picked cut and paste
Here is your answer: Why didn't FDR accept a deal for Germany to surrender in 1942?
Because there was no such offer
Gee....you can't seem to help lying even when it isn't necessary...
You posted this....didn't you?
"OK ...I'll answer your question"
Then you tried to pretend that the question was otherwise...
"Here is your answer: Why didn't FDR accept a deal for Germany to surrender in 1942?
Because there was no such offer."
That wasn't the question....was it.
I'll proffer the query once again, below.
But here's another question: are you this much of a liar, or simply too brain addled to keep the question.....offered some dozen times.....in mind?
Which?
....what did America gain by not supporting the German resistance movement, which would have turned Hitler over to the Allies, ended the war at least two years earlier than it ended, .....
....and all it would have cost the world is the absence of the Cold War, no Korean nor Vietnam Wars, and no Soviet occupation of Eastern Europe...
...and a bonus: 200,000 fewer American dead.
Answer the question.
False.
1. I provided proof that FDR's own fact-finder, George Earle, met with and agreed with the German resistance, and kept trying to get FDR to agree to it.
2. I provided proof that 'Wild Bill' Donovan, FDR' selection to head the OSS (future CIA) had agents meet with the German underground, and then sent reports pleading with FDR to agree to a treaty to end the war.
And this....
3. One of the highest anti-Nazi Germans was the chief of Nazi Germany's military intelligence division, the Abwehr, Admiral Wm. Canaris. Try as he might, the Allies would not open communications channels with Canaris .
a. "Wilhelm Franz Canaris (1 January 1887 – 9 April 1945) was a German admiral, and chief of the Abwehr, the German military intelligence service, from 1935 to 1944. During the Second World War, he was among the military officers involved in the clandestine opposition to Adolf Hitler and the Nazi regime.... "Wilhelm Canaris - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
b. A few weeks before the war ended, Canaris was hanged by he Nazis. Hanged twice: "once to show him what death tasted like."
“Canaris Hanging Related,” New York Times, October 11, 1952.
c. Britain's intelligence chief said this about Canaris: 'It is said that had it not been for the Foreign Office's fear of offending Russia that he might have established direct contact with the admiral [Canaris] in 1942 on the removal of Hitler as a means of shortening the war."
“Gen. Menzies, Ex-British Intelligence Chief, Dies,” New York Times, May 31, 1968.
Did you see the date: 1942. When did the war with Germany finally end?
"May 7, 1945: Germany surrenders unconditionally to the Allies at Reims" Germany surrenders unconditionally to the Allies at Reims ? History.com This Day in History ? 5/7/1945
What prevented an earlier conclusion to the war?
"... fear of offending Russia..."
Fear of offending, it seems to me, suggests a relationship with one's superiors....
i.e., Roosevelt considered Stalin his superior.
Not enough????
OK....more:
Let's look at a primary source, Allen Dulles,first civilian to head the CIA, and its longest serving director. In "Germany's Underground: The Anti-Nazi Resistance," Dulles wrote of thatthe German was the only anti-Nazi underground not supported by the United States. (p.22).
On page 140, Dulles states "The plotters (anti-Nazi German resistance)....were told clearly and repeatedly that we had made common cause with Russia...." as the reason they were frozen out.
The NYTimes told the same story, March 18, 1946: "Full Story of Anti-Hitler Plot Shows That Allies Refused To Assist."
And this:
....what did America gain by not supporting the German resistance movement, which would have turned Hitler over to the Allies, ended the war at least two years earlier than it ended, .....
....and all it would have cost the world is the absence of the Cold War, no Korean nor Vietnam Wars, and no Soviet occupation of Eastern Europe...
...and a bonus: 200,000 fewer American dead.
All that cut and paste.......none supporting your claims
Canaris was no magic solution to ending the war.
He was unable to negotiate a surrender with the Russians knocking on the doors of Berlin, yet you expect him to be able to surrender in 1942 at the peak of Nazi power
Canaris was tortured and executed for his efforts
You have failed miserably at providing a credible alternate ending where the Germans would have completely surrendered in 1942. The reason is that your claims are ludicrous
....what did America gain by not supporting the German resistance movement, which would have turned Hitler over to the Allies, ended the war at least two years earlier than it ended, .....
....and all it would have cost the world is the absence of the Cold War, no Korean nor Vietnam Wars, and no Soviet occupation of Eastern Europe...
...and a bonus: 200,000 fewer American dead.
Answer the question.
OK ...I'll answer your question
Your question is worthy of a child playing Risk and wondering why the real world is not like that
Your premise that Germany would have or could have completely surrendered to the Americans in 1942 thereby saving us from 200,000 deaths, the Cold War, Korea, Vietnam is absolutely ridiculous no matter how many times you repeat it
You have been offered the opportunity to provide any plausible explanation of how your wild theory could have possibly come to fruition and you have fallen back on repeatedly posting the same cherry picked cut and paste
Here is your answer: Why didn't FDR accept a deal for Germany to surrender in 1942?
Because there was no such offer
Gee....you can't seem to help lying even when it isn't necessary...
You posted this....didn't you?
"OK ...I'll answer your question"
Then you tried to pretend that the question was otherwise...
"Here is your answer: Why didn't FDR accept a deal for Germany to surrender in 1942?
Because there was no such offer."
That wasn't the question....was it.
I'll proffer the query once again, below.
But here's another question: are you this much of a liar, or simply too brain addled to keep the question.....offered some dozen times.....in mind?
Which?
....what did America gain by not supporting the German resistance movement, which would have turned Hitler over to the Allies, ended the war at least two years earlier than it ended, .....
....and all it would have cost the world is the absence of the Cold War, no Korean nor Vietnam Wars, and no Soviet occupation of Eastern Europe...
...and a bonus: 200,000 fewer American dead.
Answer the question.
Another swing and a miss on your part
Show us the actual "deal" that FDR passed up in 1942 that would have ended the war
Explain how German Resistance could have possibly created a path to end the war
which would have turned Hitler over to the Allies, ended the war at least two years earlier than it ended, .....
It is your claim...support it
....what did America gain by not supporting the German resistance movement, which would have turned Hitler over to the Allies, ended the war at least two years earlier than it ended, .....
The inane second part of your question makes the first part moot
The German resistance could not have turned Hitler over to the Allies, could not have ended the war at least two years earlier
So....what were we supposed to support them to do?
Without doing research I'm sure if Germany had war resisters all nations had them. Was any government overthrown from within during the war? The Italian government was overthrown by the Germans. One of Britain's anti-war groups was the Peace Pledge Union. American had its German-American Bund among others.
Might make an interesting thesis today for someone.
False.
1. I provided proof that FDR's own fact-finder, George Earle, met with and agreed with the German resistance, and kept trying to get FDR to agree to it.
2. I provided proof that 'Wild Bill' Donovan, FDR' selection to head the OSS (future CIA) had agents meet with the German underground, and then sent reports pleading with FDR to agree to a treaty to end the war.
And this....
3. One of the highest anti-Nazi Germans was the chief of Nazi Germany's military intelligence division, the Abwehr, Admiral Wm. Canaris. Try as he might, the Allies would not open communications channels with Canaris .
a. "Wilhelm Franz Canaris (1 January 1887 – 9 April 1945) was a German admiral, and chief of the Abwehr, the German military intelligence service, from 1935 to 1944. During the Second World War, he was among the military officers involved in the clandestine opposition to Adolf Hitler and the Nazi regime.... "Wilhelm Canaris - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
b. A few weeks before the war ended, Canaris was hanged by he Nazis. Hanged twice: "once to show him what death tasted like."
“Canaris Hanging Related,” New York Times, October 11, 1952.
c. Britain's intelligence chief said this about Canaris: 'It is said that had it not been for the Foreign Office's fear of offending Russia that he might have established direct contact with the admiral [Canaris] in 1942 on the removal of Hitler as a means of shortening the war."
“Gen. Menzies, Ex-British Intelligence Chief, Dies,” New York Times, May 31, 1968.
Did you see the date: 1942. When did the war with Germany finally end?
"May 7, 1945: Germany surrenders unconditionally to the Allies at Reims" Germany surrenders unconditionally to the Allies at Reims ? History.com This Day in History ? 5/7/1945
What prevented an earlier conclusion to the war?
"... fear of offending Russia..."
Fear of offending, it seems to me, suggests a relationship with one's superiors....
i.e., Roosevelt considered Stalin his superior.
Not enough????
OK....more:
Let's look at a primary source, Allen Dulles,first civilian to head the CIA, and its longest serving director. In "Germany's Underground: The Anti-Nazi Resistance," Dulles wrote of thatthe German was the only anti-Nazi underground not supported by the United States. (p.22).
On page 140, Dulles states "The plotters (anti-Nazi German resistance)....were told clearly and repeatedly that we had made common cause with Russia...." as the reason they were frozen out.
The NYTimes told the same story, March 18, 1946: "Full Story of Anti-Hitler Plot Shows That Allies Refused To Assist."
And this:
....what did America gain by not supporting the German resistance movement, which would have turned Hitler over to the Allies, ended the war at least two years earlier than it ended, .....
....and all it would have cost the world is the absence of the Cold War, no Korean nor Vietnam Wars, and no Soviet occupation of Eastern Europe...
...and a bonus: 200,000 fewer American dead.
All that cut and paste.......none supporting your claims
Canaris was no magic solution to ending the war.
He was unable to negotiate a surrender with the Russians knocking on the doors of Berlin, yet you expect him to be able to surrender in 1942 at the peak of Nazi power
Canaris was tortured and executed for his efforts
You have failed miserably at providing a credible alternate ending where the Germans would have completely surrendered in 1942. The reason is that your claims are ludicrous
....what did America gain by not supporting the German resistance movement, which would have turned Hitler over to the Allies, ended the war at least two years earlier than it ended, .....
....and all it would have cost the world is the absence of the Cold War, no Korean nor Vietnam Wars, and no Soviet occupation of Eastern Europe...
...and a bonus: 200,000 fewer American dead.
Answer the question.
OK ...I'll answer your question
Your question is worthy of a child playing Risk and wondering why the real world is not like that
Your premise that Germany would have or could have completely surrendered to the Americans in 1942 thereby saving us from 200,000 deaths, the Cold War, Korea, Vietnam is absolutely ridiculous no matter how many times you repeat it
You have been offered the opportunity to provide any plausible explanation of how your wild theory could have possibly come to fruition and you have fallen back on repeatedly posting the same cherry picked cut and paste
Here is your answer: Why didn't FDR accept a deal for Germany to surrender in 1942?
Because there was no such offer
Gee....you can't seem to help lying even when it isn't necessary...
You posted this....didn't you?
"OK ...I'll answer your question"
Then you tried to pretend that the question was otherwise...
"Here is your answer: Why didn't FDR accept a deal for Germany to surrender in 1942?
Because there was no such offer."
That wasn't the question....was it.
I'll proffer the query once again, below.
But here's another question: are you this much of a liar, or simply too brain addled to keep the question.....offered some dozen times.....in mind?
Which?
....what did America gain by not supporting the German resistance movement, which would have turned Hitler over to the Allies, ended the war at least two years earlier than it ended, .....
....and all it would have cost the world is the absence of the Cold War, no Korean nor Vietnam Wars, and no Soviet occupation of Eastern Europe...
...and a bonus: 200,000 fewer American dead.
Answer the question.
Another swing and a miss on your part
Show us the actual "deal" that FDR passed up in 1942 that would have ended the war
Explain how German Resistance could have possibly created a path to end the war
which would have turned Hitler over to the Allies, ended the war at least two years earlier than it ended, .....
It is your claim...support it
Without doing research I'm sure if Germany had war resisters all nations had them. Was any government overthrown from within during the war? The Italian government was overthrown by the Germans. One of Britain's anti-war groups was the Peace Pledge Union. American had its German-American Bund among others.
Might make an interesting thesis today for someone.
....what did America gain by not supporting the German resistance movement, which would have turned Hitler over to the Allies, ended the war at least two years earlier than it ended, .....
....and all it would have cost the world is the absence of the Cold War, no Korean nor Vietnam Wars, and no Soviet occupation of Eastern Europe...
...and a bonus: 200,000 fewer American dead.
Answer the question.
That was also a Republican tactic, calling FDR "Rosenfelt"In the Nazi propaganda I read as a child-----ROOSEVELT was no hero-----he was so terrible----he was described as a JOOOOO
1. Today, MEMORIAL DAY, the
"A coup against Hitler was wishful thinking. [Head of German Military Intelligence Wilhelm] Canaris nor anyone else was in a position to overthrow Hitler and any idea he or anyone else could have is based on faulty speculation. "
This quote remains accurate. The OP has shown nothing but speculative opinion and no objective data to refute the quote.
Let's see....
1. I provided proof that the there was a robust anti-Nazi, anti-Hitler, anti-communist German resistance, and there did not exist an 'unwavering, monolithic German support for Nazism and Hitler,' throughout Germany."
2. I provided proof that they offered a swift end to the war years before it ended.
3. I provided proof that FDR's own fact-finder, George Earle, met with and agreed with the German resistance, and kept trying to get FDR to agree to it.
4. I provided proof that 'Wild Bill' Donovan, FDR' selection to head the OSS (future CIA) had agents meet with the German underground, and then sent reports pleading with FDR to agree to a treaty to end the war.
5. I provided testimony from Soviet Intelligence Officers that Stalin wanted the war extended, and German 'pastoralized' so he could advance across Europe post-war: "Such an accord would limit Communist influence in Europe."
6. Then I provided a quote from Louis Lochner, the AP bureau chief in Berlin, attempting to file a story on the activities of anti-Nazi Germans and U.S. military censors blocked the story.
Why?
“...a personal directive from the president of the United States ‘in his capacity of commander in chief forbidding all mention of the German resistance,’” “Stories of the existence of a resistance movement did not fit into the concept of Unconditional Surrender!”
7. I gave the plan offered by the German resistance: ".. the plan was to stage a coup, turn over Hitler and his top henchmen to the Allies, and bring about Germany’s “unconditional surrender, with one condition”: The Russians were not to be allowed into Central Europe, including Germany or territory at that time controlled by Germany."
8. I gave the only possible conclusion: Roosevelt quashed every plan to produce a peace with anti-Nazi Germans, in support of Communist expansion in Europe. Somehow, this was a higher priority than removing Hitler and ending our loss of blood and treasure.
So....on Memorial Day, America has some 200,000 more deaths to mourn due to the ideology of Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
And your response???
"The OP has shown nothing but speculative opinion and no objective data..."
Clearly....you lie.
All you've achieved in providing is hot air.
So.....this is your definition of 'hot air'?
The facts that you cannot dispute?
These?
1. I provided proof that the there was a robust anti-Nazi, anti-Hitler, anti-communist German resistance, and there did not exist an 'unwavering, monolithic German support for Nazism and Hitler,' throughout Germany."
2. I provided proof that they offered a swift end to the war years before it ended.
3. I provided proof that FDR's own fact-finder, George Earle, met with and agreed with the German resistance, and kept trying to get FDR to agree to it.
4. I provided proof that 'Wild Bill' Donovan, FDR' selection to head the OSS (future CIA) had agents meet with the German underground, and then sent reports pleading with FDR to agree to a treaty to end the war.
5. I provided testimony from Soviet Intelligence Officers that Stalin wanted the war extended, and German 'pastoralized' so he could advance across Europe post-war: "Such an accord would limit Communist influence in Europe."
6. Then I provided a quote from Louis Lochner, the AP bureau chief in Berlin, attempting to file a story on the activities of anti-Nazi Germans and U.S. military censors blocked the story.
Why?
“...a personal directive from the president of the United States ‘in his capacity of commander in chief forbidding all mention of the German resistance,’” “Stories of the existence of a resistance movement did not fit into the concept of Unconditional Surrender!”
7. I gave the plan offered by the German resistance: ".. the plan was to stage a coup, turn over Hitler and his top henchmen to the Allies, and bring about Germany’s “unconditional surrender, with one condition”: The Russians were not to be allowed into Central Europe, including Germany or territory at that time controlled by Germany."
8. I gave the only possible conclusion: Roosevelt quashed every plan to produce a peace with anti-Nazi Germans, in support of Communist expansion in Europe. Somehow, this was a higher priority than removing Hitler and ending our loss of blood and treasure.
So....on Memorial Day, America has some 200,000 more deaths to mourn due to the ideology of Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
As a bonus, I proved you to be a liar, too.
The fanatical Gook has yet to realize that people were trying to kill Hitler and failed...and there was no real way to communicate with what resistance to Hitler there was..She's trying sooo hard to make FDR look bad, yet fails like the Japs every time..
3
Think of it, if FDR had been killed by an American resistant movement would America have given up and surrendered to the Germans? If Stalin had been killed by Russians would the Russians have given up, the British and Churchill and on and on?
