How Franklin Roosevelt Made Memorial Day Necessary

[PoliticalChic]

1. Today, MEMORIAL DAY, the


"A coup against Hitler was wishful thinking. [Head of German Military Intelligence Wilhelm] Canaris nor anyone else was in a position to overthrow Hitler and any idea he or anyone else could have is based on faulty speculation. "

This quote remains accurate. The OP has shown nothing but speculative opinion and no objective data to refute the quote.

Let's see....

1. I provided proof that the there was a robust anti-Nazi, anti-Hitler, anti-communist German resistance, and there did not exist an 'unwavering, monolithic German support for Nazism and Hitler,' throughout Germany."

2. I provided proof that they offered a swift end to the war years before it ended.

3. I provided proof that FDR's own fact-finder, George Earle, met with and agreed with the German resistance, and kept trying to get FDR to agree to it.

4. I provided proof that 'Wild Bill' Donovan, FDR' selection to head the OSS (future CIA) had agents meet with the German underground, and then sent reports pleading with FDR to agree to a treaty to end the war.

5. I provided testimony from Soviet Intelligence Officers that Stalin wanted the war extended, and German 'pastoralized' so he could advance across Europe post-war: "Such an accord would limit Communist influence in Europe."

6. Then I provided a quote from Louis Lochner, the AP bureau chief in Berlin, attempting to file a story on the activities of anti-Nazi Germans and U.S. military censors blocked the story.
Why?
“...a personal directive from the president of the United States ‘in his capacity of commander in chief forbidding all mention of the German resistance,’” “Stories of the existence of a resistance movement did not fit into the concept of Unconditional Surrender!”

7. I gave the plan offered by the German resistance: ".. the plan was to stage a coup, turn over Hitler and his top henchmen to the Allies, and bring about Germany’s “unconditional surrender, with one condition”: The Russians were not to be allowed into Central Europe, including Germany or territory at that time controlled by Germany."

8. I gave the only possible conclusion: Roosevelt quashed every plan to produce a peace with anti-Nazi Germans, in support of Communist expansion in Europe. Somehow, this was a higher priority than removing Hitler and ending our loss of blood and treasure.


So....on Memorial Day, America has some 200,000 more deaths to mourn due to the ideology of Franklin Delano Roosevelt.




And your response???
"The OP has shown nothing but speculative opinion and no objective data..."

Clearly....you lie.

You have not proven that a coup in Germany was possible. You offer only an opinion that one might have been feasible. You are speculating that forces in Germany could have done away with Hitler, when factually, all attempts to do so failed. That is what your entire concept of an early surrender with terms are based on. In addition, the terms you suggest would have been on the table were not rational or obtainable. There was no way the USSR would have agreed to not share in German spoils of war.
Subjective and speculative ideas and concepts never equal facts.

"You have not proven that a coup in Germany was possible."

Really?

Let's see who claimed it was possible:

1. I provided proof that the there was a robust anti-Nazi, anti-Hitler, anti-communist German resistance, and there did not exist an 'unwavering, monolithic German support for Nazism and Hitler,' throughout Germany."


2. I provided proof that they offered a swift end to the war years before it ended.


3. I provided proof that FDR's own fact-finder, George Earle, met with and agreed with the German resistance, and kept trying to get FDR to agree to it.


4. I provided proof that 'Wild Bill' Donovan, FDR' selection to head the OSS (future CIA) had agents meet with the German underground, and then sent reports pleading with FDR to agree to a treaty to end the war.


5. I provided testimony from Soviet Intelligence Officers that Stalin wanted the war extended, and German 'pastoralized' so he could advance across Europe post-war: "Such an accord would limit Communist influence in Europe."


6. Then I provided a quote from Louis Lochner, the AP bureau chief in Berlin, attempting to file a story on the activities of anti-Nazi Germans and U.S. military censors blocked the story.
Why?
“...a personal directive from the president of the United States ‘in his capacity of commander in chief forbidding all mention of the German resistance,’” “Stories of the existence of a resistance movement did not fit into the concept of Unconditional Surrender!”


7. I gave the plan offered by the German resistance: ".. the plan was to stage a coup, turn over Hitler and his top henchmen to the Allies, and bring about Germany’s “unconditional surrender, with one condition”: The Russians were not to be allowed into Central Europe, including Germany or territory at that time controlled by Germany."

8. I gave the only possible conclusion: Roosevelt quashed every plan to produce a peace with anti-Nazi Germans, in support of Communist expansion in Europe. Somehow, this was a higher priority than removing Hitler and ending our loss of blood and treasure.

So....on Memorial Day, America has some 200,000 more deaths to mourn due to the ideology of Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

 

[rightwinger]

Frau Braun

Your only justification is "he did it too"?

Only a Nazi lover could justify genocide and the subjugation of Western Europr

There is no metric by which Joseph Stalin was less injurious to his nation, our nation, and the world than Adolf Hitler.
None whatsoever.

Yet, like Roosevelt, here you are rushing to excuse Roosevelt's outrageous attachment to this pathological doctrine and dictator.


As Coulter so correctly pronounced,
. "Principle is nothing to liberals. Winning is everything."

Hitler controlled Western Europe

By allowing Stalin to lose 20 million people on the Eastern Front while killing 7 million Germans, FDR recaptured Western Europe at the cost of 200,000 deaths

Au contraire.

Roosevelt felt that allowing Stalin to conquer Eastern Europe was worth 200,000 American lives.

You too?

Two different fronts Frau Braun, We lost nobody on the Eastern Front

Your willingness to sacrifice Western Europe in a premature offer of peace shows your true loyalty

Every time you come up with another lie means you know I've pounded another stake into your demigod's heart.

Or......can you find any post of mine.....any of thousands......that suggests the "sacrifice Western Europe in a premature offer of peace" treaty???

No?

You can't???

You mean you made that up to try to shield Roosevelt and yourself from well-deserved contumely????



I posted this plan offered by the German resistance: ".. the plan was to stage a coup, turn over Hitler and his top henchmen to the Allies, and bring about Germany’s “unconditional surrender, with one condition”: The Russians were not to be allowed into Central Europe, including Germany or territory at that time controlled by Germany."


And it would have preserved 200,000 American lives.


In your face, boooooyyyyyeeeeeee!

Frau Braun

Your fantasies are noted. There were 25 assassination attempts on Hitler and you assume your coup would succeed. The Nazis still controlled Western Europe in 1943 and were unlikely to surrender either Eastern or Western Europe in a coup.

Stalin was rightfully pissed at the Nazis and would not agree to a termination of hostilities in 1943. Who exactly was going to stop them in your fantasy?



.

 

[rightwinger]

Hitler controlled Western Europe

By allowing Stalin to lose 20 million people on the Eastern Front while killing 7 million Germans, FDR recaptured Western Europe at the cost of 200,000 deaths

PoliSpice is not good at math which is ironic considering she's an AZN

Frau Braun is still pissed that FDR did not save the Nazis

I have no association with Leftism...i.e., Nazism nor communism.

You do....yet you try to slander me with that phrase, 'Frau Braun,' as recompense for your embarrassment due to your demigod's bowing to Stalin's every demand.

That's the truth....isn't it.

Frau Braun seems appropriate for someone supporting the Nazi regime

Or......can you find any post of mine.....any of thousands......that suggests the supporting the Nazi regime???

Any?????

No?

You can't???

You mean you made that up to try to shield Roosevelt and yourself from well-deserved contumely????

Frau Braun

Your willingness to make peace while the Nazis still controlled Europe shows not only a willingness to allow German control over Western Europe but a willingness to allow them to continue their death camps

 

[PoliticalChic]

1. Today, MEMORIAL DAY, the


"A coup against Hitler was wishful thinking. [Head of German Military Intelligence Wilhelm] Canaris nor anyone else was in a position to overthrow Hitler and any idea he or anyone else could have is based on faulty speculation. "

This quote remains accurate. The OP has shown nothing but speculative opinion and no objective data to refute the quote.

Let's see....

1. I provided proof that the there was a robust anti-Nazi, anti-Hitler, anti-communist German resistance, and there did not exist an 'unwavering, monolithic German support for Nazism and Hitler,' throughout Germany."

2. I provided proof that they offered a swift end to the war years before it ended.

3. I provided proof that FDR's own fact-finder, George Earle, met with and agreed with the German resistance, and kept trying to get FDR to agree to it.

4. I provided proof that 'Wild Bill' Donovan, FDR' selection to head the OSS (future CIA) had agents meet with the German underground, and then sent reports pleading with FDR to agree to a treaty to end the war.

5. I provided testimony from Soviet Intelligence Officers that Stalin wanted the war extended, and German 'pastoralized' so he could advance across Europe post-war: "Such an accord would limit Communist influence in Europe."

6. Then I provided a quote from Louis Lochner, the AP bureau chief in Berlin, attempting to file a story on the activities of anti-Nazi Germans and U.S. military censors blocked the story.
Why?
“...a personal directive from the president of the United States ‘in his capacity of commander in chief forbidding all mention of the German resistance,’” “Stories of the existence of a resistance movement did not fit into the concept of Unconditional Surrender!”

7. I gave the plan offered by the German resistance: ".. the plan was to stage a coup, turn over Hitler and his top henchmen to the Allies, and bring about Germany’s “unconditional surrender, with one condition”: The Russians were not to be allowed into Central Europe, including Germany or territory at that time controlled by Germany."

8. I gave the only possible conclusion: Roosevelt quashed every plan to produce a peace with anti-Nazi Germans, in support of Communist expansion in Europe. Somehow, this was a higher priority than removing Hitler and ending our loss of blood and treasure.


So....on Memorial Day, America has some 200,000 more deaths to mourn due to the ideology of Franklin Delano Roosevelt.




And your response???
"The OP has shown nothing but speculative opinion and no objective data..."

Clearly....you lie.

You have not proven that a coup in Germany was possible. You offer only an opinion that one might have been feasible. You are speculating that forces in Germany could have done away with Hitler, when factually, all attempts to do so failed. That is what your entire concept of an early surrender with terms are based on. In addition, the terms you suggest would have been on the table were not rational or obtainable. There was no way the USSR would have agreed to not share in German spoils of war.
Subjective and speculative ideas and concepts never equal facts.

Don't you think American leaders should have helped those who wanted a coup? Why would your buddy FDR not try to support coup attempts within Germany? Even a statist dupe like yourself, must question why America did nothing to help those trying to unseat Hitler.

There were 25 attempts at a coup against Hitler. All failed and all were met with a brutal response from the Nazis.

Assassination attempts on Adolf Hitler - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Let's see......

3. I provided proof that FDR's own fact-finder, George Earle, met with and agreed with the German resistance, and kept trying to get FDR to agree to it.


4. I provided proof that 'Wild Bill' Donovan, FDR' selection to head the OSS (future CIA) had agents meet with the German underground, and then sent reports pleading with FDR to agree to a treaty to end the war.

And this....

One of the highest anti-Nazi Germans was the chief of Nazi Germany's military intelligence division, the Abwehr, Admiral Wm. Canaris. Try as he might, the Allies would not open communications channels with Canaris .


a. "Wilhelm Franz Canaris (1 January 1887 – 9 April 1945) was a German admiral, and chief of the Abwehr, the German military intelligence service, from 1935 to 1944. During the Second World War, he was among the military officers involved in the clandestine opposition to Adolf Hitler and the Nazi regime.... "Wilhelm Canaris - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


b. A few weeks before the war ended, Canaris was hanged by he Nazis. Hanged twice: "once to show him what death tasted like."
“Canaris Hanging Related,” New York Times, October 11, 1952.


c. Britain's intelligence chief said this about Canaris: 'It is said that had it not been for the Foreign Office's fear of offending Russia that he might have established direct contact with the admiral [Canaris] in 1942 on the removal of Hitler as a means of shortening the war."
“Gen. Menzies, Ex-British Intelligence Chief, Dies,” New York Times, May 31, 1968.




Did you see the date: 1942. When did the war with Germany finally end?

"May 7, 1945: Germany surrenders unconditionally to the Allies at Reims" Germany surrenders unconditionally to the Allies at Reims ? History.com This Day in History ? 5/7/1945




What prevented an earlier conclusion to the war?
"... fear of offending Russia..."

Fear of offending, it seems to me, suggests a relationship with one's superiors....
i.e., Roosevelt considered Stalin his superior.

 

[PoliticalChic]

PoliSpice is not good at math which is ironic considering she's an AZN

Frau Braun is still pissed that FDR did not save the Nazis

I have no association with Leftism...i.e., Nazism nor communism.

You do....yet you try to slander me with that phrase, 'Frau Braun,' as recompense for your embarrassment due to your demigod's bowing to Stalin's every demand.

That's the truth....isn't it.

Frau Braun seems appropriate for someone supporting the Nazi regime

Or......can you find any post of mine.....any of thousands......that suggests the supporting the Nazi regime???

Any?????

No?

You can't???

You mean you made that up to try to shield Roosevelt and yourself from well-deserved contumely????

Frau Braun

Your willingness to make peace while the Nazis still controlled Europe shows not only a willingness to allow German control over Western Europe but a willingness to allow them to continue their death camps

Calm down, 'Leftwinger'.....

....just because I've exposed you as the lying low-life that you are....

....relax.....


...you'll live to post another day.

 

[rightwinger]

This quote remains accurate. The OP has shown nothing but speculative opinion and no objective data to refute the quote.

Let's see....

1. I provided proof that the there was a robust anti-Nazi, anti-Hitler, anti-communist German resistance, and there did not exist an 'unwavering, monolithic German support for Nazism and Hitler,' throughout Germany."

2. I provided proof that they offered a swift end to the war years before it ended.

3. I provided proof that FDR's own fact-finder, George Earle, met with and agreed with the German resistance, and kept trying to get FDR to agree to it.

4. I provided proof that 'Wild Bill' Donovan, FDR' selection to head the OSS (future CIA) had agents meet with the German underground, and then sent reports pleading with FDR to agree to a treaty to end the war.

5. I provided testimony from Soviet Intelligence Officers that Stalin wanted the war extended, and German 'pastoralized' so he could advance across Europe post-war: "Such an accord would limit Communist influence in Europe."

6. Then I provided a quote from Louis Lochner, the AP bureau chief in Berlin, attempting to file a story on the activities of anti-Nazi Germans and U.S. military censors blocked the story.
Why?
“...a personal directive from the president of the United States ‘in his capacity of commander in chief forbidding all mention of the German resistance,’” “Stories of the existence of a resistance movement did not fit into the concept of Unconditional Surrender!”

7. I gave the plan offered by the German resistance: ".. the plan was to stage a coup, turn over Hitler and his top henchmen to the Allies, and bring about Germany’s “unconditional surrender, with one condition”: The Russians were not to be allowed into Central Europe, including Germany or territory at that time controlled by Germany."

8. I gave the only possible conclusion: Roosevelt quashed every plan to produce a peace with anti-Nazi Germans, in support of Communist expansion in Europe. Somehow, this was a higher priority than removing Hitler and ending our loss of blood and treasure.


So....on Memorial Day, America has some 200,000 more deaths to mourn due to the ideology of Franklin Delano Roosevelt.




And your response???
"The OP has shown nothing but speculative opinion and no objective data..."

Clearly....you lie.

You have not proven that a coup in Germany was possible. You offer only an opinion that one might have been feasible. You are speculating that forces in Germany could have done away with Hitler, when factually, all attempts to do so failed. That is what your entire concept of an early surrender with terms are based on. In addition, the terms you suggest would have been on the table were not rational or obtainable. There was no way the USSR would have agreed to not share in German spoils of war.
Subjective and speculative ideas and concepts never equal facts.

Don't you think American leaders should have helped those who wanted a coup? Why would your buddy FDR not try to support coup attempts within Germany? Even a statist dupe like yourself, must question why America did nothing to help those trying to unseat Hitler.

There were 25 attempts at a coup against Hitler. All failed and all were met with a brutal response from the Nazis.

Assassination attempts on Adolf Hitler - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Let's see......

3. I provided proof that FDR's own fact-finder, George Earle, met with and agreed with the German resistance, and kept trying to get FDR to agree to it.


4. I provided proof that 'Wild Bill' Donovan, FDR' selection to head the OSS (future CIA) had agents meet with the German underground, and then sent reports pleading with FDR to agree to a treaty to end the war.

And this....

One of the highest anti-Nazi Germans was the chief of Nazi Germany's military intelligence division, the Abwehr, Admiral Wm. Canaris. Try as he might, the Allies would not open communications channels with Canaris .


a. "Wilhelm Franz Canaris (1 January 1887 – 9 April 1945) was a German admiral, and chief of the Abwehr, the German military intelligence service, from 1935 to 1944. During the Second World War, he was among the military officers involved in the clandestine opposition to Adolf Hitler and the Nazi regime.... "Wilhelm Canaris - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


b. A few weeks before the war ended, Canaris was hanged by he Nazis. Hanged twice: "once to show him what death tasted like."
“Canaris Hanging Related,” New York Times, October 11, 1952.


c. Britain's intelligence chief said this about Canaris: 'It is said that had it not been for the Foreign Office's fear of offending Russia that he might have established direct contact with the admiral [Canaris] in 1942 on the removal of Hitler as a means of shortening the war."
“Gen. Menzies, Ex-British Intelligence Chief, Dies,” New York Times, May 31, 1968.




Did you see the date: 1942. When did the war with Germany finally end?

"May 7, 1945: Germany surrenders unconditionally to the Allies at Reims" Germany surrenders unconditionally to the Allies at Reims ? History.com This Day in History ? 5/7/1945




What prevented an earlier conclusion to the war?
"... fear of offending Russia..."

Fear of offending, it seems to me, suggests a relationship with one's superiors....
i.e., Roosevelt considered Stalin his superior.

Frau Braun

Of course there was German resistance. Their attempts to topple the Nazi regime during the war were met with swift and brutal retribution

You attempting to build our war effort around the unlikely coup and surrender of the Nazis while they were at the pinnacle of their power is laughable

While your coup strategy is laughable, your willingness to allow Nazi genocide to continue unchecked is repulsive

 

[Camp]

Fear of offending, it seems to me, suggests a relationship with one's superiors....
i.e., Roosevelt considered Stalin his superior.

Your concession is noted. At the end of you cut and paste attempt to make your conclusion, you admit your conclusion is nothing more than a personal opinion. "It seems to me" verifies that that is all you have to substantiate your ill concieved and uneducated conclusion.

 

[rightwinger]

This quote remains accurate. The OP has shown nothing but speculative opinion and no objective data to refute the quote.

Let's see....

1. I provided proof that the there was a robust anti-Nazi, anti-Hitler, anti-communist German resistance, and there did not exist an 'unwavering, monolithic German support for Nazism and Hitler,' throughout Germany."

2. I provided proof that they offered a swift end to the war years before it ended.

3. I provided proof that FDR's own fact-finder, George Earle, met with and agreed with the German resistance, and kept trying to get FDR to agree to it.

4. I provided proof that 'Wild Bill' Donovan, FDR' selection to head the OSS (future CIA) had agents meet with the German underground, and then sent reports pleading with FDR to agree to a treaty to end the war.

5. I provided testimony from Soviet Intelligence Officers that Stalin wanted the war extended, and German 'pastoralized' so he could advance across Europe post-war: "Such an accord would limit Communist influence in Europe."

6. Then I provided a quote from Louis Lochner, the AP bureau chief in Berlin, attempting to file a story on the activities of anti-Nazi Germans and U.S. military censors blocked the story.
Why?
“...a personal directive from the president of the United States ‘in his capacity of commander in chief forbidding all mention of the German resistance,’” “Stories of the existence of a resistance movement did not fit into the concept of Unconditional Surrender!”

7. I gave the plan offered by the German resistance: ".. the plan was to stage a coup, turn over Hitler and his top henchmen to the Allies, and bring about Germany’s “unconditional surrender, with one condition”: The Russians were not to be allowed into Central Europe, including Germany or territory at that time controlled by Germany."

8. I gave the only possible conclusion: Roosevelt quashed every plan to produce a peace with anti-Nazi Germans, in support of Communist expansion in Europe. Somehow, this was a higher priority than removing Hitler and ending our loss of blood and treasure.


So....on Memorial Day, America has some 200,000 more deaths to mourn due to the ideology of Franklin Delano Roosevelt.




And your response???
"The OP has shown nothing but speculative opinion and no objective data..."

Clearly....you lie.

You have not proven that a coup in Germany was possible. You offer only an opinion that one might have been feasible. You are speculating that forces in Germany could have done away with Hitler, when factually, all attempts to do so failed. That is what your entire concept of an early surrender with terms are based on. In addition, the terms you suggest would have been on the table were not rational or obtainable. There was no way the USSR would have agreed to not share in German spoils of war.
Subjective and speculative ideas and concepts never equal facts.

Don't you think American leaders should have helped those who wanted a coup? Why would your buddy FDR not try to support coup attempts within Germany? Even a statist dupe like yourself, must question why America did nothing to help those trying to unseat Hitler.

There were 25 attempts at a coup against Hitler. All failed and all were met with a brutal response from the Nazis.

Assassination attempts on Adolf Hitler - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Let's see......

3. I provided proof that FDR's own fact-finder, George Earle, met with and agreed with the German resistance, and kept trying to get FDR to agree to it.


4. I provided proof that 'Wild Bill' Donovan, FDR' selection to head the OSS (future CIA) had agents meet with the German underground, and then sent reports pleading with FDR to agree to a treaty to end the war.

And this....

One of the highest anti-Nazi Germans was the chief of Nazi Germany's military intelligence division, the Abwehr, Admiral Wm. Canaris. Try as he might, the Allies would not open communications channels with Canaris .


a. "Wilhelm Franz Canaris (1 January 1887 – 9 April 1945) was a German admiral, and chief of the Abwehr, the German military intelligence service, from 1935 to 1944. During the Second World War, he was among the military officers involved in the clandestine opposition to Adolf Hitler and the Nazi regime.... "Wilhelm Canaris - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


b. A few weeks before the war ended, Canaris was hanged by he Nazis. Hanged twice: "once to show him what death tasted like."
“Canaris Hanging Related,” New York Times, October 11, 1952.


c. Britain's intelligence chief said this about Canaris: 'It is said that had it not been for the Foreign Office's fear of offending Russia that he might have established direct contact with the admiral [Canaris] in 1942 on the removal of Hitler as a means of shortening the war."
“Gen. Menzies, Ex-British Intelligence Chief, Dies,” New York Times, May 31, 1968.




Did you see the date: 1942. When did the war with Germany finally end?

"May 7, 1945: Germany surrenders unconditionally to the Allies at Reims" Germany surrenders unconditionally to the Allies at Reims ? History.com This Day in History ? 5/7/1945




What prevented an earlier conclusion to the war?
"... fear of offending Russia..."

Fear of offending, it seems to me, suggests a relationship with one's superiors....
i.e., Roosevelt considered Stalin his superior.

Europe 1942...High water mark of the Nazis.....the point where Frau Braun expects the Germans to surrender all of their gains and allow the US to occupy them

 

[Dot Com]

Let's see....

1. I provided proof that the there was a robust anti-Nazi, anti-Hitler, anti-communist German resistance, and there did not exist an 'unwavering, monolithic German support for Nazism and Hitler,' throughout Germany."

2. I provided proof that they offered a swift end to the war years before it ended.

3. I provided proof that FDR's own fact-finder, George Earle, met with and agreed with the German resistance, and kept trying to get FDR to agree to it.

4. I provided proof that 'Wild Bill' Donovan, FDR' selection to head the OSS (future CIA) had agents meet with the German underground, and then sent reports pleading with FDR to agree to a treaty to end the war.

5. I provided testimony from Soviet Intelligence Officers that Stalin wanted the war extended, and German 'pastoralized' so he could advance across Europe post-war: "Such an accord would limit Communist influence in Europe."

6. Then I provided a quote from Louis Lochner, the AP bureau chief in Berlin, attempting to file a story on the activities of anti-Nazi Germans and U.S. military censors blocked the story.
Why?
“...a personal directive from the president of the United States ‘in his capacity of commander in chief forbidding all mention of the German resistance,’” “Stories of the existence of a resistance movement did not fit into the concept of Unconditional Surrender!”

7. I gave the plan offered by the German resistance: ".. the plan was to stage a coup, turn over Hitler and his top henchmen to the Allies, and bring about Germany’s “unconditional surrender, with one condition”: The Russians were not to be allowed into Central Europe, including Germany or territory at that time controlled by Germany."

8. I gave the only possible conclusion: Roosevelt quashed every plan to produce a peace with anti-Nazi Germans, in support of Communist expansion in Europe. Somehow, this was a higher priority than removing Hitler and ending our loss of blood and treasure.


So....on Memorial Day, America has some 200,000 more deaths to mourn due to the ideology of Franklin Delano Roosevelt.




And your response???
"The OP has shown nothing but speculative opinion and no objective data..."

Clearly....you lie.

You have not proven that a coup in Germany was possible. You offer only an opinion that one might have been feasible. You are speculating that forces in Germany could have done away with Hitler, when factually, all attempts to do so failed. That is what your entire concept of an early surrender with terms are based on. In addition, the terms you suggest would have been on the table were not rational or obtainable. There was no way the USSR would have agreed to not share in German spoils of war.
Subjective and speculative ideas and concepts never equal facts.

Don't you think American leaders should have helped those who wanted a coup? Why would your buddy FDR not try to support coup attempts within Germany? Even a statist dupe like yourself, must question why America did nothing to help those trying to unseat Hitler.

There were 25 attempts at a coup against Hitler. All failed and all were met with a brutal response from the Nazis.

Assassination attempts on Adolf Hitler - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Let's see......

3. I provided proof that FDR's own fact-finder, George Earle, met with and agreed with the German resistance, and kept trying to get FDR to agree to it.


4. I provided proof that 'Wild Bill' Donovan, FDR' selection to head the OSS (future CIA) had agents meet with the German underground, and then sent reports pleading with FDR to agree to a treaty to end the war.

And this....

One of the highest anti-Nazi Germans was the chief of Nazi Germany's military intelligence division, the Abwehr, Admiral Wm. Canaris. Try as he might, the Allies would not open communications channels with Canaris .


a. "Wilhelm Franz Canaris (1 January 1887 – 9 April 1945) was a German admiral, and chief of the Abwehr, the German military intelligence service, from 1935 to 1944. During the Second World War, he was among the military officers involved in the clandestine opposition to Adolf Hitler and the Nazi regime.... "Wilhelm Canaris - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


b. A few weeks before the war ended, Canaris was hanged by he Nazis. Hanged twice: "once to show him what death tasted like."
“Canaris Hanging Related,” New York Times, October 11, 1952.


c. Britain's intelligence chief said this about Canaris: 'It is said that had it not been for the Foreign Office's fear of offending Russia that he might have established direct contact with the admiral [Canaris] in 1942 on the removal of Hitler as a means of shortening the war."
“Gen. Menzies, Ex-British Intelligence Chief, Dies,” New York Times, May 31, 1968.




Did you see the date: 1942. When did the war with Germany finally end?

"May 7, 1945: Germany surrenders unconditionally to the Allies at Reims" Germany surrenders unconditionally to the Allies at Reims ? History.com This Day in History ? 5/7/1945




What prevented an earlier conclusion to the war?
"... fear of offending Russia..."

Fear of offending, it seems to me, suggests a relationship with one's superiors....
i.e., Roosevelt considered Stalin his superior.

Frau Braun

Of course there was German resistance. Their attempts to topple the Nazi regime during the war were met with swift and brutal retribution

You attempting to build our war effort around the unlikely coup and surrender of the Nazis while they were at the pinnacle of their power is laughable

While your coup strategy is laughable, your willingness to allow Nazi genocide to continue unchecked is repulsive

what else can we expect from PoliticalSpice?

 

[regent]

I usually assume that Hitler was not an honorable man and he might have sought revenge by taking it out on our prisoners of war, or in some other fashion. What we are capable of doing today over sixty years later, knowing the outcome, is the truly amazing part.

 

[rightwinger]

This quote remains accurate. The OP has shown nothing but speculative opinion and no objective data to refute the quote.

Let's see....

1. I provided proof that the there was a robust anti-Nazi, anti-Hitler, anti-communist German resistance, and there did not exist an 'unwavering, monolithic German support for Nazism and Hitler,' throughout Germany."

2. I provided proof that they offered a swift end to the war years before it ended.

3. I provided proof that FDR's own fact-finder, George Earle, met with and agreed with the German resistance, and kept trying to get FDR to agree to it.

4. I provided proof that 'Wild Bill' Donovan, FDR' selection to head the OSS (future CIA) had agents meet with the German underground, and then sent reports pleading with FDR to agree to a treaty to end the war.

5. I provided testimony from Soviet Intelligence Officers that Stalin wanted the war extended, and German 'pastoralized' so he could advance across Europe post-war: "Such an accord would limit Communist influence in Europe."

6. Then I provided a quote from Louis Lochner, the AP bureau chief in Berlin, attempting to file a story on the activities of anti-Nazi Germans and U.S. military censors blocked the story.
Why?
“...a personal directive from the president of the United States ‘in his capacity of commander in chief forbidding all mention of the German resistance,’” “Stories of the existence of a resistance movement did not fit into the concept of Unconditional Surrender!”

7. I gave the plan offered by the German resistance: ".. the plan was to stage a coup, turn over Hitler and his top henchmen to the Allies, and bring about Germany’s “unconditional surrender, with one condition”: The Russians were not to be allowed into Central Europe, including Germany or territory at that time controlled by Germany."

8. I gave the only possible conclusion: Roosevelt quashed every plan to produce a peace with anti-Nazi Germans, in support of Communist expansion in Europe. Somehow, this was a higher priority than removing Hitler and ending our loss of blood and treasure.


So....on Memorial Day, America has some 200,000 more deaths to mourn due to the ideology of Franklin Delano Roosevelt.




And your response???
"The OP has shown nothing but speculative opinion and no objective data..."

Clearly....you lie.

You have not proven that a coup in Germany was possible. You offer only an opinion that one might have been feasible. You are speculating that forces in Germany could have done away with Hitler, when factually, all attempts to do so failed. That is what your entire concept of an early surrender with terms are based on. In addition, the terms you suggest would have been on the table were not rational or obtainable. There was no way the USSR would have agreed to not share in German spoils of war.
Subjective and speculative ideas and concepts never equal facts.

Don't you think American leaders should have helped those who wanted a coup? Why would your buddy FDR not try to support coup attempts within Germany? Even a statist dupe like yourself, must question why America did nothing to help those trying to unseat Hitler.

There were 25 attempts at a coup against Hitler. All failed and all were met with a brutal response from the Nazis.

Assassination attempts on Adolf Hitler - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Let's see......

3. I provided proof that FDR's own fact-finder, George Earle, met with and agreed with the German resistance, and kept trying to get FDR to agree to it.


4. I provided proof that 'Wild Bill' Donovan, FDR' selection to head the OSS (future CIA) had agents meet with the German underground, and then sent reports pleading with FDR to agree to a treaty to end the war.

And this....

One of the highest anti-Nazi Germans was the chief of Nazi Germany's military intelligence division, the Abwehr, Admiral Wm. Canaris. Try as he might, the Allies would not open communications channels with Canaris .


a. "Wilhelm Franz Canaris (1 January 1887 – 9 April 1945) was a German admiral, and chief of the Abwehr, the German military intelligence service, from 1935 to 1944. During the Second World War, he was among the military officers involved in the clandestine opposition to Adolf Hitler and the Nazi regime.... "Wilhelm Canaris - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


b. A few weeks before the war ended, Canaris was hanged by he Nazis. Hanged twice: "once to show him what death tasted like."
“Canaris Hanging Related,” New York Times, October 11, 1952.


c. Britain's intelligence chief said this about Canaris: 'It is said that had it not been for the Foreign Office's fear of offending Russia that he might have established direct contact with the admiral [Canaris] in 1942 on the removal of Hitler as a means of shortening the war."
“Gen. Menzies, Ex-British Intelligence Chief, Dies,” New York Times, May 31, 1968.




Did you see the date: 1942. When did the war with Germany finally end?

"May 7, 1945: Germany surrenders unconditionally to the Allies at Reims" Germany surrenders unconditionally to the Allies at Reims ? History.com This Day in History ? 5/7/1945




What prevented an earlier conclusion to the war?
"... fear of offending Russia..."

Fear of offending, it seems to me, suggests a relationship with one's superiors....
i.e., Roosevelt considered Stalin his superior.

Your savior Canaris was unable to negotiate a surrender while the Russians were knocking on the gates of Berlin. He was tortured and hung twice for his sins

You expect him to be able to get away with surrendering the entire Nazi empire over all of Europe and get away with it?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Fear of offending, it seems to me, suggests a relationship with one's superiors....
i.e., Roosevelt considered Stalin his superior.

Your concession is noted. At the end of you cut and paste attempt to make your conclusion, you admit your conclusion is nothing more than a personal opinion. "It seems to me" verifies that that is all you have to substantiate your ill concieved and uneducated conclusion.

Concession to what??

You're clearly an imbecile.

I provided noted figures who were responsible for determining the facts....and they did: exactly as I stated.

And the only conclusion is that Roosevelt sacrificed 200,000 American lives to seek favor with the world's greatest homicidal maniac....Joseph Stalin.

 

[Dot Com]

imbecilic OP delivers the goods

 

[PoliticalChic]

The OP began thus....

1. Today, MEMORIAL DAY, the remembrance of our war dead, is an appropriate time to peruse the extent to which a Commander-in-Chief should be concerned with saving American lives.
Should he make strategy decisions predicated on efficient use of our armed forces, and the mitigating our losses?


Franklin Roosevelt shrugged off this responsibility.



While they have provided ignorance, lies and general amusement.....none of the Roosevelt boot-lickers have made any attempt at explaining.....
...much less excusing....

....Roosevelt's exchange of 200,000 American servicemen's lives simply for facilitating Soviet Communism's expansion.


In short.....what did America gain by not supporting the German resistance movement, which would have turned Hitler over to the Allies, ended the war at least two years earlier than it ended, .....

....and all it would have cost the world is the absence of the Cold War, no Korean nor Vietnam Wars, and no Soviet occupation of Eastern Europe...
...and a bonus: 200,000 fewer American dead.



A brutally simply question that none of the Roosevelt boot-lickers dared answer.

 

[Camp]

Fear of offending, it seems to me, suggests a relationship with one's superiors....
i.e., Roosevelt considered Stalin his superior.

Your concession is noted. At the end of you cut and paste attempt to make your conclusion, you admit your conclusion is nothing more than a personal opinion. "It seems to me" verifies that that is all you have to substantiate your ill concieved and uneducated conclusion.

Concession to what??

You're clearly an imbecile.

I provided noted figures who were responsible for determining the facts....and they did: exactly as I stated.

And the only conclusion is that Roosevelt sacrificed 200,000 American lives to seek favor with the world's greatest homicidal maniac....Joseph Stalin.

You are clearly a person who does not no or care about the difference between subjective and speculative opinions and objective facts. You have given no rational or believable factual data to indicate a coup against Hitler or an early surrender was possible. That is important because without the actual ability to take out Hitler and replace him (a big if even if Hitler was eliminated) with a cooperative Nazi regime in that time frame was not feasible.
Subjective speulation never equals objective facts.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Fear of offending, it seems to me, suggests a relationship with one's superiors....
i.e., Roosevelt considered Stalin his superior.

Your concession is noted. At the end of you cut and paste attempt to make your conclusion, you admit your conclusion is nothing more than a personal opinion. "It seems to me" verifies that that is all you have to substantiate your ill concieved and uneducated conclusion.

Concession to what??

You're clearly an imbecile.

I provided noted figures who were responsible for determining the facts....and they did: exactly as I stated.

And the only conclusion is that Roosevelt sacrificed 200,000 American lives to seek favor with the world's greatest homicidal maniac....Joseph Stalin.

You are clearly a person who does not no or care about the difference between subjective and speculative opinions and objective facts. You have given no rational or believable factual data to indicate a coup against Hitler or an early surrender was possible. That is important because without the actual ability to take out Hitler and replace him (a big if even if Hitler was eliminated) with a cooperative Nazi regime in that time frame was not feasible.
Subjective speulation never equals objective facts.

In short.....what did America gain by not supporting the German resistance movement, which would have turned Hitler over to the Allies, ended the war at least two years earlier than it ended, .....

....and all it would have cost the world is the absence of the Cold War, no Korean nor Vietnam Wars, and no Soviet occupation of Eastern Europe...
...and a bonus: 200,000 fewer American dead.

Speak up, dunce!

 

[rightwinger]

Fear of offending, it seems to me, suggests a relationship with one's superiors....
i.e., Roosevelt considered Stalin his superior.

Your concession is noted. At the end of you cut and paste attempt to make your conclusion, you admit your conclusion is nothing more than a personal opinion. "It seems to me" verifies that that is all you have to substantiate your ill concieved and uneducated conclusion.

Concession to what??

You're clearly an imbecile.

I provided noted figures who were responsible for determining the facts....and they did: exactly as I stated.

And the only conclusion is that Roosevelt sacrificed 200,000 American lives to seek favor with the world's greatest homicidal maniac....Joseph Stalin.

You are clearly a person who does not no or care about the difference between subjective and speculative opinions and objective facts. You have given no rational or believable factual data to indicate a coup against Hitler or an early surrender was possible. That is important because without the actual ability to take out Hitler and replace him (a big if even if Hitler was eliminated) with a cooperative Nazi regime in that time frame was not feasible.
Subjective speulation never equals objective facts.

In short.....what did America gain by not supporting the German resistance movement, which would have turned Hitler over to the Allies, ended the war at least two years earlier than it ended, .....

....and all it would have cost the world is the absence of the Cold War, no Korean nor Vietnam Wars, and no Soviet occupation of Eastern Europe...
...and a bonus: 200,000 fewer American dead.

Speak up, dunce!

The German resistance, unlike the French resistance was a nonentity during the war. They had no effective acts of resistance. Unlike the French, who covered for the resistance, Germans remained loyal and would rat out their neighbors

Your claims that this resistance could have overthrown the Nazi regime at the height of its powers and support is ridiculous

 

[PoliticalChic]

Fear of offending, it seems to me, suggests a relationship with one's superiors....
i.e., Roosevelt considered Stalin his superior.

Your concession is noted. At the end of you cut and paste attempt to make your conclusion, you admit your conclusion is nothing more than a personal opinion. "It seems to me" verifies that that is all you have to substantiate your ill concieved and uneducated conclusion.

Concession to what??

You're clearly an imbecile.

I provided noted figures who were responsible for determining the facts....and they did: exactly as I stated.

And the only conclusion is that Roosevelt sacrificed 200,000 American lives to seek favor with the world's greatest homicidal maniac....Joseph Stalin.

You are clearly a person who does not no or care about the difference between subjective and speculative opinions and objective facts. You have given no rational or believable factual data to indicate a coup against Hitler or an early surrender was possible. That is important because without the actual ability to take out Hitler and replace him (a big if even if Hitler was eliminated) with a cooperative Nazi regime in that time frame was not feasible.
Subjective speulation never equals objective facts.

In short.....what did America gain by not supporting the German resistance movement, which would have turned Hitler over to the Allies, ended the war at least two years earlier than it ended, .....

....and all it would have cost the world is the absence of the Cold War, no Korean nor Vietnam Wars, and no Soviet occupation of Eastern Europe...
...and a bonus: 200,000 fewer American dead.

Speak up, dunce!

The German resistance, unlike the French resistance was a nonentity during the war. They had no effective acts of resistance. Unlike the French, who covered for the resistance, Germans remained loyal and would rat out their neighbors

Your claims that this resistance could have overthrown the Nazi regime at the height of its powers and support is ridiculous

.....none of the Roosevelt boot-lickers have made any attempt at explaining.....
...much less excusing....

....Roosevelt's exchange of 200,000 American servicemen's lives simply for facilitating Soviet Communism's expansion.


In short.....what did America gain by not supporting the German resistance movement, which would have turned Hitler over to the Allies, ended the war at least two years earlier than it ended, .....

....and all it would have cost the world is the absence of the Cold War, no Korean nor Vietnam Wars, and no Soviet occupation of Eastern Europe...
...and a bonus: 200,000 fewer American dead.



A brutally simply question that none of the Roosevelt boot-lickers dared answer.




What did you say???
Speak up.

 

[rightwinger]

Your concession is noted. At the end of you cut and paste attempt to make your conclusion, you admit your conclusion is nothing more than a personal opinion. "It seems to me" verifies that that is all you have to substantiate your ill concieved and uneducated conclusion.

Concession to what??

You're clearly an imbecile.

I provided noted figures who were responsible for determining the facts....and they did: exactly as I stated.

And the only conclusion is that Roosevelt sacrificed 200,000 American lives to seek favor with the world's greatest homicidal maniac....Joseph Stalin.

You are clearly a person who does not no or care about the difference between subjective and speculative opinions and objective facts. You have given no rational or believable factual data to indicate a coup against Hitler or an early surrender was possible. That is important because without the actual ability to take out Hitler and replace him (a big if even if Hitler was eliminated) with a cooperative Nazi regime in that time frame was not feasible.
Subjective speulation never equals objective facts.

In short.....what did America gain by not supporting the German resistance movement, which would have turned Hitler over to the Allies, ended the war at least two years earlier than it ended, .....

....and all it would have cost the world is the absence of the Cold War, no Korean nor Vietnam Wars, and no Soviet occupation of Eastern Europe...
...and a bonus: 200,000 fewer American dead.

Speak up, dunce!

The German resistance, unlike the French resistance was a nonentity during the war. They had no effective acts of resistance. Unlike the French, who covered for the resistance, Germans remained loyal and would rat out their neighbors

Your claims that this resistance could have overthrown the Nazi regime at the height of its powers and support is ridiculous

.....none of the Roosevelt boot-lickers have made any attempt at explaining.....
...much less excusing....

....Roosevelt's exchange of 200,000 American servicemen's lives simply for facilitating Soviet Communism's expansion.


In short.....what did America gain by not supporting the German resistance movement, which would have turned Hitler over to the Allies, ended the war at least two years earlier than it ended, .....

....and all it would have cost the world is the absence of the Cold War, no Korean nor Vietnam Wars, and no Soviet occupation of Eastern Europe...
...and a bonus: 200,000 fewer American dead.



A brutally simply question that none of the Roosevelt boot-lickers dared answer.




What did you say???
Speak up.

OK Frau Braun...

Lets hear your alternative reality

HOW does the US support the German resistance effort?
We provided the French with money, guns, radios, explosives. How do we get those items into Germany?

If we were able to provide support, what could German resistance have accomplished? Your claims that they were remotely capable of overturning Hitler in 1942 are laughable

 

[PoliticalChic]

Fear of offending, it seems to me, suggests a relationship with one's superiors....
i.e., Roosevelt considered Stalin his superior.

Your concession is noted. At the end of you cut and paste attempt to make your conclusion, you admit your conclusion is nothing more than a personal opinion. "It seems to me" verifies that that is all you have to substantiate your ill concieved and uneducated conclusion.

Concession to what??

You're clearly an imbecile.

I provided noted figures who were responsible for determining the facts....and they did: exactly as I stated.

And the only conclusion is that Roosevelt sacrificed 200,000 American lives to seek favor with the world's greatest homicidal maniac....Joseph Stalin.

You are clearly a person who does not no or care about the difference between subjective and speculative opinions and objective facts. You have given no rational or believable factual data to indicate a coup against Hitler or an early surrender was possible. That is important because without the actual ability to take out Hitler and replace him (a big if even if Hitler was eliminated) with a cooperative Nazi regime in that time frame was not feasible.
Subjective speulation never equals objective facts.

In short.....what did America gain by not supporting the German resistance movement, which would have turned Hitler over to the Allies, ended the war at least two years earlier than it ended, .....

....and all it would have cost the world is the absence of the Cold War, no Korean nor Vietnam Wars, and no Soviet occupation of Eastern Europe...
...and a bonus: 200,000 fewer American dead.

Speak up, dunce!

The German resistance, unlike the French resistance was a nonentity during the war. They had no effective acts of resistance. Unlike the French, who covered for the resistance, Germans remained loyal and would rat out their neighbors

Your claims that this resistance could have overthrown the Nazi regime at the height of its powers and support is ridiculous

"Your claims that this resistance could have overthrown the Nazi regime at the height of its powers and support is ridiculous."

Now...watch closely as I eviscerate you.....

It is not my claim:

1. I provided proof that FDR's own fact-finder, George Earle, met with and agreed with the German resistance, and kept trying to get FDR to agree to it.
The former governor of Pennsylvania, Commander George H. Earle, FDR's personal representative (i.e., eyes and ears) for the Balkans, stationed in Istanbul.


2. I provided proof that 'Wild Bill' Donovan, FDR' selection to head the OSS (future CIA) had agents meet with the German underground, and then sent reports pleading with FDR to agree to a treaty to end the war.
Donovan was the spy in charge of the Office of Strategic Services and FDR consented to give the full weight of his office to the formation of the new national spy organization.
As was the case with so many advisers.....personally selected by Roosevelt himself....including....
"Franklin D. Roosevelt appointed [Wm.] Bullitt the first US ambassador to the Soviet Union, a post that he filled from 1933 to 1936." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Christian_Bullitt,_Jr.
..
Roosevelt ignored what they said if it conflicted with Stalin's wishes.

3. Know who else says you're a liar?
"Major General Sir Stewart Graham Menzies, KCB KCMG DSO MC (i/ˈmɪŋᵻz/; 30 January 1890 – 29 May 1968) was Chief of MI6 (SIS), British Secret Intelligence Service from 1939 to 1952, during and after the Second World War."
Stewart Menzies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Britain's intelligence chief said this about Canaris: 'It is said that had it not been for the Foreign Office's fear of offending Russia that he might have established direct contact with the admiral [Canaris] in 1942 on the removal of Hitler as a means of shortening the war."
“Gen. Menzies, Ex-British Intelligence Chief, Dies,” New York Times, May 31, 1968.


What prevented an earlier conclusion to the war?
"... fear of offending Russia..."

Fear of offending, it seems to me, suggests a relationship with one's superiors....
i.e., Roosevelt considered Stalin his superior.


Wadda ya say, booooyyyyyeeeeeee????