Anguille
Bane of the Urbane
- Mar 8, 2008
- 17,910
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That would not reduce the need for abortion in rape cases.Why not abstinence- it's free, readily available, and guaranteed to work each and every time.
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That would not reduce the need for abortion in rape cases.Why not abstinence- it's free, readily available, and guaranteed to work each and every time.
How do you propose that we reduce the number of abortions in our country?
You just have to join islam, they stone you to death for sex outside of marriage. They don't kill the fetus, they kill the mother.
Plus, they don't even have the medical tools to do an abortion in most of the places. Not even any coat hangers either.
So then why do so many good Christians believe in abortion?Teach the Gospel with power and authority from God to the point where no one can disbelieve. Obviously, it hasnt happened yet. But I know from personal experience that actually living the Gospel can keep you from needing abortion.
I think it's fine if people have different ideas of when abortion is acceptable to them .... and for them. People should restrict themselves to making a choice for themselves and quit trying to force their own standards on others. Especially those phonies one who claim they are the chosen representatives of other people's fetuses.Why does anyone care what other people do? Your life so sad that you have to worry about what others do?
Yeah! Why should any of us care if some other person is drugging his dates to sell them into prostitution overseas?
Why should any of us care if our neighbor is kidnapping kids off the street to rape them in the privacy of his own basement, and then cooking them for dinner?
1 because he is KIDNAPPING
someone else's kids
2 because he is raping them
3 because he is killing them and eating them for dinner
in each one of your scenarios, there is a born person who is being harmed by another person with no attachment to them.
SOME people believe that an unborn child in its earliest stage does not have the same value as a child that has been born and taken its first breath.
Others believe that from the second of conception, the unborn child has the equal worth under the law as the born child.
Others believe that this takes place upon pregnancy, when the fertilized egg is attached to the uterine wall and begins rapidly multiplying because many fertilized eggs end up being flushed and not attaching to the uterus.
And others believe the fetus has no worth until it is born.
Some others believe the fertilized egg as no worth until the woman makes it through the first month of pregnancy, because many spontaneous natural abortions occur at that time when the body rejects most embryos that are damaged...
UNLESS everyone is forced to get on to the same page with this, there will never be any kind of peace regarding this issue because there are so many different views for so many different, individual reasons.
sky,
maybe this will help some day?
Birth control for men in one injection - Science, News - The IndependentBirth control for men in one injection
Chinese scientists succeed with testosterone jab trial on 1,000 volunteers
By Jerome Taylor
Tuesday, 5 May 2009
Scientists believe they are one step closer to developing an effective male contraceptive jab after successfully carrying out the largest feasibility study to date.
Researchers at the National Research for Family Planning in Beijing injected 1,000 healthy, fertile male patients with a testosterone-based jab over a two-year period and found only 1 per cent went on to father a child. The men were all aged between 20 and 45 and had fathered at least one child in the two years before the testing began. They were also all involved with healthy female partners between the ages of 18 and 38 who had no reproductive problems of their own.
The trial was the largest effectiveness study of a testosterone-based male contraceptive ever undertaken. At the end of the two-year period only one in 100 men had fathered a child. No contraception is 100 per cent effective 1 to 2 per cent of women still become pregnant while they are on the Pill but the jab's success rate puts it on a par with the effectiveness of the female Pill or injections.
Dr Yi-Qun Gu, one of the researchers involved in the testing, said: "For couples who cannot or prefer not to use only female-oriented contraception, options have been limited to vasectomy, condom and withdrawal. Our study shows a male hormonal contraceptive regimen may be a potential, novel and workable alternative."
When the contraceptive Pill was introduced in the 1960s it revolutionised sex lives but also placed the onus of reproductive responsibility on women. Scientists have been looking to try to find a suitable alternative for men but have struggled to control male hormones with the same level of efficiency. Previous attempts to develop an effective and convenient male contraceptive have encountered problems over reliability and side-effects, such as mood swings and a lowered sex drive.
Like the female Pill, most testing for a male pill or injection has centred on using hormones to stop the production of key elements of the reproductive process. For the testing in China, a country which has invested heavily in reproductive technology because of its overpopulation problems, the men were given 500mg of testosterone undecanoate (TU) in tea seed oil. The injections resulted in a reduction of two regulatory brain chemicals, follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) and luteinising hormone (LH) which in turn disrupted sperm production.
The scientists claim that there were none of the usual side-effects and say the process is reversible. Six months after coming off the injections, the men's sperm count had returned to healthy levels. Dr Gu said further testing would be needed to check how safe testosterone injections are.
Family planning campaigners have welcomed the news and said they hoped an injection would result in men taking a greater level of responsibility over contraception.
I think it's fine if people have different ideas of when abortion is acceptable to them .... and for them. People should restrict themselves to making a choice for themselves and quit trying to force their own standards on others. Especially those phonies one who claim they are the chosen representatives of other people's fetuses.Yeah! Why should any of us care if some other person is drugging his dates to sell them into prostitution overseas?
Why should any of us care if our neighbor is kidnapping kids off the street to rape them in the privacy of his own basement, and then cooking them for dinner?
1 because he is KIDNAPPING
someone else's kids
2 because he is raping them
3 because he is killing them and eating them for dinner
in each one of your scenarios, there is a born person who is being harmed by another person with no attachment to them.
SOME people believe that an unborn child in its earliest stage does not have the same value as a child that has been born and taken its first breath.
Others believe that from the second of conception, the unborn child has the equal worth under the law as the born child.
Others believe that this takes place upon pregnancy, when the fertilized egg is attached to the uterine wall and begins rapidly multiplying because many fertilized eggs end up being flushed and not attaching to the uterus.
And others believe the fetus has no worth until it is born.
Some others believe the fertilized egg as no worth until the woman makes it through the first month of pregnancy, because many spontaneous natural abortions occur at that time when the body rejects most embryos that are damaged...
UNLESS everyone is forced to get on to the same page with this, there will never be any kind of peace regarding this issue because there are so many different views for so many different, individual reasons.
That would not reduce the need for abortion in rape cases.Why not abstinence- it's free, readily available, and guaranteed to work each and every time.
If you were one of those 2 women, it would matter to you.That would not reduce the need for abortion in rape cases.Why not abstinence- it's free, readily available, and guaranteed to work each and every time.
Yeah, both of them. It's such a huge issue in this country and obviously creates the need to allow abortions to one and all, regardless of the reasons for them. Don't want to miss those two women who were raped and somehow got pregnant..or more specifically, the .00000001 of those two women who actually want an abortion when it happens.
Try to have a logical argument, if you want a response from me.Do you also think it's "fine" if people have different ideas of when it is acceptable to kidnap children off the street and rape them and cook them and eat them -- in the privacy of their own basements, naturally?
Most of us may find that kind of conduct unacceptable. But what gives US the right to tell a neighbor that he is not permitted to do engage in such behavior? Who said we have the right to force OUR standards on other people?
Try to have a logical argument, if you want a response from me.Do you also think it's "fine" if people have different ideas of when it is acceptable to kidnap children off the street and rape them and cook them and eat them -- in the privacy of their own basements, naturally?
Most of us may find that kind of conduct unacceptable. But what gives US the right to tell a neighbor that he is not permitted to do engage in such behavior? Who said we have the right to force OUR standards on other people?
Your tactics are shopworn and useless.
So then why do so many good Christians believe in abortion?Teach the Gospel with power and authority from God to the point where no one can disbelieve. Obviously, it hasnt happened yet. But I know from personal experience that actually living the Gospel can keep you from needing abortion.
I do know Christians who believe in abortion as a good thing. They believe their god wants us to use all at our disposal to make this a better world. They see nothing in the Bible that contradicts this point of view.So then why do so many good Christians believe in abortion?Teach the Gospel with power and authority from God to the point where no one can disbelieve. Obviously, it hasnt happened yet. But I know from personal experience that actually living the Gospel can keep you from needing abortion.
I don't think any of them "believe" in abortion as if it is something good anguille....not Christians and not nonchristians....it is a medical procedure to terminate their pregnancy, there is nothing fun about it and there is nothing to BELIEVE in....
It seems to me it is a free choice situation, a fork in the road, of which they will answer to or deal with the consequences of, be it physical or mental (with a multitude of "what ifs..."), the rest of their lives and if a Christian, face to face with Christ.
And I am NOT saying they will burn on Judgment day when face to face with Christ....I am saying it is between Christ and the person who had the abortion and judgment of such will be fair and just by Christ....he knows their heart and their fears and their sorrow and their cowardice and their concerns etc that they might have experienced.
The girl who had an abortion is no different than any of the people who have committed adultery, not honored their parents or coveted someone elses sports car, house or wife....
sin is sin...the adulterer equal to the murderer in the ten commandments, the covetous equal to the thief....
As a Christian, I believe Christ died for those sins...judgment day is a soul searching day, face to face with Christ, on what one believes, and on how one lived their lives.
So then why do so many good Christians believe in abortion?Teach the Gospel with power and authority from God to the point where no one can disbelieve. Obviously, it hasnt happened yet. But I know from personal experience that actually living the Gospel can keep you from needing abortion.
I don't think any of them "believe" in abortion as if it is something good anguille....not Christians and not nonchristians....it is a medical procedure to terminate their pregnancy, there is nothing fun about it and there is nothing to BELIEVE in....
It seems to me it is a free choice situation, a fork in the road, of which they will answer to or deal with the consequences of, be it physical or mental (with a multitude of "what ifs..."), the rest of their lives and if a Christian, face to face with Christ.
And I am NOT saying they will burn on Judgment day when face to face with Christ....I am saying it is between Christ and the person who had the abortion and judgment of such will be fair and just by Christ....he knows their heart and their fears and their sorrow and their cowardice and their concerns etc that they might have experienced.
The girl who had an abortion is no different than any of the people who have committed adultery, not honored their parents or coveted someone elses sports car, house or wife....
sin is sin...the adulterer equal to the murderer in the ten commandments, the covetous equal to the thief....
As a Christian, I believe Christ died for those sins...judgment day is a soul searching day, face to face with Christ, on what one believes, and on how one lived their lives.
So then why do so many good Christians believe in abortion?
I don't think any of them "believe" in abortion as if it is something good anguille....not Christians and not nonchristians....it is a medical procedure to terminate their pregnancy, there is nothing fun about it and there is nothing to BELIEVE in....
It seems to me it is a free choice situation, a fork in the road, of which they will answer to or deal with the consequences of, be it physical or mental (with a multitude of "what ifs..."), the rest of their lives and if a Christian, face to face with Christ.
And I am NOT saying they will burn on Judgment day when face to face with Christ....I am saying it is between Christ and the person who had the abortion and judgment of such will be fair and just by Christ....he knows their heart and their fears and their sorrow and their cowardice and their concerns etc that they might have experienced.
The girl who had an abortion is no different than any of the people who have committed adultery, not honored their parents or coveted someone elses sports car, house or wife....
sin is sin...the adulterer equal to the murderer in the ten commandments, the covetous equal to the thief....
As a Christian, I believe Christ died for those sins...judgment day is a soul searching day, face to face with Christ, on what one believes, and on how one lived their lives.
I'm a Buddhist, and I believe in karma. If you take a life you create negative karma. Rinpoche approached questions about abortion in this way. I specifically remember him talking to a woman who was asking him whether she should abort her unborn child. Rinpoche advised her against an abortion, as he knew she would suffer greatly for the negative act. Rinpoche told her she would have a happier life if she had the child.
She had an abortion.
No one in our community would cast her out for her decision, we would just all feel sad knowing that she had created the causes of unhappiness for herself due to her action.
At the same time, we cannot live in this world without killing other sentient beings--even vegetarians share in some negative karma for all the insects that are killed in the harvesting of vegies and grains.
The whole point is motivation and intention.
If the woman who has the abortion regrets the decision, and takes no joy in it, that helps her with the heavy karmic burden she creates by terminating the life of her child--at whatever stage of development the fetus is in.
I think the least harmful kind of abortion must be the morning after pill because it keeps the fertilized egg from implanting in the uterus. I don't think the consciousness of a fertilized egg is the same as a four month fetus, do you?
I mean if someone insists on having an abortion, at least, don't do it in ignorance kidding yourself that this isn't human life being terminated. JMO
I don't believe in karma but it does seem to me that having children irresponsibly and/or having too many could catch up to you in the end. So even if you don't care what effect your actions have on the rest of the world, you should at least realize what they could have on you.I don't think any of them "believe" in abortion as if it is something good anguille....not Christians and not nonchristians....it is a medical procedure to terminate their pregnancy, there is nothing fun about it and there is nothing to BELIEVE in....
It seems to me it is a free choice situation, a fork in the road, of which they will answer to or deal with the consequences of, be it physical or mental (with a multitude of "what ifs..."), the rest of their lives and if a Christian, face to face with Christ.
And I am NOT saying they will burn on Judgment day when face to face with Christ....I am saying it is between Christ and the person who had the abortion and judgment of such will be fair and just by Christ....he knows their heart and their fears and their sorrow and their cowardice and their concerns etc that they might have experienced.
The girl who had an abortion is no different than any of the people who have committed adultery, not honored their parents or coveted someone elses sports car, house or wife....
sin is sin...the adulterer equal to the murderer in the ten commandments, the covetous equal to the thief....
As a Christian, I believe Christ died for those sins...judgment day is a soul searching day, face to face with Christ, on what one believes, and on how one lived their lives.
I'm a Buddhist, and I believe in karma. If you take a life you create negative karma. Rinpoche approached questions about abortion in this way. I specifically remember him talking to a woman who was asking him whether she should abort her unborn child. Rinpoche advised her against an abortion, as he knew she would suffer greatly for the negative act. Rinpoche told her she would have a happier life if she had the child.
She had an abortion.
No one in our community would cast her out for her decision, we would just all feel sad knowing that she had created the causes of unhappiness for herself due to her action.
At the same time, we cannot live in this world without killing other sentient beings--even vegetarians share in some negative karma for all the insects that are killed in the harvesting of vegies and grains.
The whole point is motivation and intention.
If the woman who has the abortion regrets the decision, and takes no joy in it, that helps her with the heavy karmic burden she creates by terminating the life of her child--at whatever stage of development the fetus is in.
I think the least harmful kind of abortion must be the morning after pill because it keeps the fertilized egg from implanting in the uterus. I don't think the consciousness of a fertilized egg is the same as a four month fetus, do you?
I mean if someone insists on having an abortion, at least, don't do it in ignorance kidding yourself that this isn't human life being terminated. JMO
Interesting SkyDancer!
It seems similar, in a way, to what I believe...at least the Earthly part...
the old testament for me, was all about God's warning of "karma"....
You reap, what you sow here on earth.
For every action there is a reaction....
When God is telling us NOT to sin, it isn't necessarily to honor HIM....it is a warning to us about reaping what we sow or "karma" imo....what will bring you peace on earth and what will bring you misery.... he is not wishing the misery on us from our sins, he is warning us how miserable we could be or about the consequences of sin, here on earth for the most part.
You steal, you will pay for such....in jail, through guilt, through silence, through fear of getting caught one day....just a cloud over your head...
Adultery...the same cloud...
Coveting, wanting what others have and being envious or experience greed due to it....makes one carry that cloud as well...
killing....the same thing, but a bigger cloud perhaps
etc etc etc....
I don't believe in karma but it does seem to me that having children irresponsibly and/or having too many could catch up to you in the end. So even if you don't care what effect your actions have on the rest of the world, you should at least realize what they could have on you.I'm a Buddhist, and I believe in karma. If you take a life you create negative karma. Rinpoche approached questions about abortion in this way. I specifically remember him talking to a woman who was asking him whether she should abort her unborn child. Rinpoche advised her against an abortion, as he knew she would suffer greatly for the negative act. Rinpoche told her she would have a happier life if she had the child.
She had an abortion.
No one in our community would cast her out for her decision, we would just all feel sad knowing that she had created the causes of unhappiness for herself due to her action.
At the same time, we cannot live in this world without killing other sentient beings--even vegetarians share in some negative karma for all the insects that are killed in the harvesting of vegies and grains.
The whole point is motivation and intention.
If the woman who has the abortion regrets the decision, and takes no joy in it, that helps her with the heavy karmic burden she creates by terminating the life of her child--at whatever stage of development the fetus is in.
I think the least harmful kind of abortion must be the morning after pill because it keeps the fertilized egg from implanting in the uterus. I don't think the consciousness of a fertilized egg is the same as a four month fetus, do you?
I mean if someone insists on having an abortion, at least, don't do it in ignorance kidding yourself that this isn't human life being terminated. JMO
Interesting SkyDancer!
It seems similar, in a way, to what I believe...at least the Earthly part...
the old testament for me, was all about God's warning of "karma"....
You reap, what you sow here on earth.
For every action there is a reaction....
When God is telling us NOT to sin, it isn't necessarily to honor HIM....it is a warning to us about reaping what we sow or "karma" imo....what will bring you peace on earth and what will bring you misery.... he is not wishing the misery on us from our sins, he is warning us how miserable we could be or about the consequences of sin, here on earth for the most part.
You steal, you will pay for such....in jail, through guilt, through silence, through fear of getting caught one day....just a cloud over your head...
Adultery...the same cloud...
Coveting, wanting what others have and being envious or experience greed due to it....makes one carry that cloud as well...
killing....the same thing, but a bigger cloud perhaps
etc etc etc....
I don't believe in karma but it does seem to me that having children irresponsibly and/or having too many could catch up to you in the end. So even if you don't care what effect your actions have on the rest of the world, you should at least realize what they could have on you.Interesting SkyDancer!
It seems similar, in a way, to what I believe...at least the Earthly part...
the old testament for me, was all about God's warning of "karma"....
You reap, what you sow here on earth.
For every action there is a reaction....
When God is telling us NOT to sin, it isn't necessarily to honor HIM....it is a warning to us about reaping what we sow or "karma" imo....what will bring you peace on earth and what will bring you misery.... he is not wishing the misery on us from our sins, he is warning us how miserable we could be or about the consequences of sin, here on earth for the most part.
You steal, you will pay for such....in jail, through guilt, through silence, through fear of getting caught one day....just a cloud over your head...
Adultery...the same cloud...
Coveting, wanting what others have and being envious or experience greed due to it....makes one carry that cloud as well...
killing....the same thing, but a bigger cloud perhaps
etc etc etc....
I don't think for one second that God...all entities of Him, does not understand human emotions and our concerns...I don't think He is "cold as Ice" as some on this board may give the impression of...I think He is a Merciful God, loving God, a just God who knows what each individual girl having an abortion went through in making their decisions....
in other words, there will be no single group of women that had abortions gathered together and thrown in to the lake of fire on judgment day...as some people may come off implying or actually believe themselves?
I honestly don't know of any case, not one, in maybe the 10 instances of where i know women involved in getting an abortion, where any of them killed their offspring with MALICE....all of them were torn on what to do, were fearful, scared, concerned, sad etc about the position they were in....
No one was rubbing their hands together with glee, shouting goody goody goody, I get to have an abortion today, as the right tries to make these girls out to be....
BUT THE TRUTH of the matter is, that what Sky and I were talking about...karma or "reaping what you sow", is what life is made up of...here on earth....we make choices, bad ones can come back to haunt us, even if we do not think they are a bad choice at the time....God gives us warnings of such, and maybe Buddha did as well....that I am unfamiliar with...but there are consequences to our actions and wrong or immoral or unethical or even just simply unwise or not thoroughly thought out decisions and actions that do bring other reactions down the road to such decisions/actions that could be more painful that one would think....
care
There is no getting around a surprise or unwanted pregnancy....ones life changes forever, with or without an abortion...
and it is my understanding that post abortion depression that some girls go through, begins from 5 to 10 years afterwards...anguille....