How big of a pay cut should employees take to give their CEO a 300% raise?

[EdwardBaiamonte]

I am agnostic on unions per se,

you're backsliding. Why would you be agnostic unless you think all prices should be set by government backed special interest violence??

 

[Toro]

I am agnostic on unions per se,

you're backsliding. Why would you be agnostic unless you think all prices should be set by government backed special interest violence??

You've mis-characterized unions generally.

Some companies treat their employees like shit. Those companies get the union they deserve.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Some companies treat their employees like shit. Those companies get the union they deserve.

Thats what capitalism is for. If you don't offer the best job and the best pay your best employees go to those who will and you go bankrupt.

 

[Toro]

Some companies treat their employees like shit. Those companies get the union they deserve.

Thats what capitalism is for. If you don't offer the best job and the best pay your best employees go to those who will and you go bankrupt.

That's not how the real world always works.

Saying "all unions are bad" is as nonsensical as some ridiculous leftist arguing that "all corporations are bad."

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

That's not how the real world always works.

its exactly how capitalism works. If you don't have the best price and quality your customers and employees go elsewhere. Its the genius of capitalism.

Saying "all unions are bad" is as nonsensical as some ridiculous leftist arguing that "all corporations are bad."

All unions are evil in that they subvert the price mechanism of capitalism and thus unfairly extract higher prices from unwitting and often poor consumers, not to mention they have driven 30 million jobs overseas so far or they teach that violence is the way to get ahead rather than by actually being worth more in the free market place.

 

[Rozman]

Why are the Libs so upset?....
If these folks lose their job they can can another one lickity split.
Right guys...You are always telling us how great the economy is and what a wonderful
job this President has done and how many jobs he created month after month.

It should not be a problem for these guys getting work....

 

[Toro]

That's not how the real world always works.

its exactly how capitalism works. If you don't have the best price and quality your customers and employees go elsewhere. Its the genius of capitalism.

Saying "all unions are bad" is as nonsensical as some ridiculous leftist arguing that "all corporations are bad."

All unions are evil in that they subvert the price mechanism of capitalism and thusly unfairly extract higher prices from unwitting and often poor consumers, not to mention that they have driven 30 million jobs overseas so far or they teach that violence is the way to get ahead rather than actually being worth more in the free market place.

Your premise assumes perfectly working markets. That is often not the case. As any econ 101 student learns in the first day of class, perfectly working markets assume perfect information and everyone is a price taker. The real world doesn't always work like that.

If we take your logic, then capital shouldn't be allowed to incorporate, and that all capital investment should be the personal liability of the shareholder. Of course, that's not how capitalism works.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Why are the Libs so upset?....
If these folks lose their job they can can another one lickity split.
Right guys...You are always telling us how great the economy is and what a wonderful
job this President has done and how many jobs he created month after month.

It should not be a problem for these guys getting work....

more likely its Barry's 99 weeks of unemployment comp that caused this bankruptcy!!

 

[CrusaderFrank]

See what happens when the workers control the means of production?

 

[ABikerSailor]

See what happens when the workers control the means of production?

Actually............the workers DO control the means of production. If they don't work, the product doesn't get made.

But............I guess you yearn for the times of robber barons so that tradgedies like the Shirtwaist factory fire could happen again.

 

[freedombecki]

How big of a pay cut should employees take to give their CEO a 300% raise?

The vultures who bought Hostess thought it should be around 30%.

Their employees disagreed. I guess they're just greedy, right?

How many employees put their savings on the line as investors in Hostess, Inc.?

And when they run it into the ground its the employees fault? How the <Freudian Stage II epithet omitted> does that work?

They saw a union whose champagne tastes forced them to use cheaper ingredients that spoiled the good taste of their product plus raised the price, and sales dropping for both reasons, so they decided to close down after securing their cash investment with final salaries consistent with flourishing businesses sans union takeover, and... What was the facetious question again?

Hostess products now taste like cardboard instead of the oven angels they were when they first started selling their Hostess cupcakes that tasted better than first-rate bakery goods decades ago.

I'm glad when Unions make people's lives better. I'm not glad when Unions make parasitic demands on American businesses that make them noncompetitive wastelands of products cheapened to make unsustainable muster.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovJ8Pxoo3NM]Top 10 Most Dangerous Parasites - YouTube[/ame]
Click on "You tube" and at the youtubedotcom link, click on "show more" for detailed explanations.
​

 

[Stephanie]

See what happens when the workers control the means of production?

Actually............the workers DO control the means of production. If they don't work, the product doesn't get made.

But............I guess you yearn for the times of robber barons so that tradgedies like the Shirtwaist factory fire could happen again.

oh well, they can cry and wail all they want about how they were being treated in the UNEMPLOYMENT line along with 23 million others, their families must be proud of them..

 

[Rshermr]

See what happens when the workers control the means of production?

Actually............the workers DO control the means of production. If they don't work, the product doesn't get made.

But............I guess you yearn for the times of robber barons so that tradgedies like the Shirtwaist factory fire could happen again.

oh well, they can cry and wail all they want about how they were being treated in the UNEMPLOYMENT line along with 23 million others, their families must be proud of them..

Yup. Probably are. Because unlike you, they have not been sold on the idea that they all WANT to be unemployed. Because, you see, no one lives well on unemployment. It is just con tools who want to believe that they love living on a few bucks a month. Trying to make rent, or mortgage payments, and all the other necessities that they can no longer afford.
But cons love to believe they are enjoying being out of work. Simple to be a con. You just listen to the dogma and spout it when you get a chance. No need to actually think, or do research, or talk to those who are in the predicament that you choose to believe they have chosen.
And no need to see what needs to be done to get unemployment done. Like what has worked in the past. Just believe the dogma. No need to do research. No need to think.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Actually............the workers DO control the means of production. If they don't work, the product doesn't get made.

But............I guess you yearn for the times of robber barons so that tradgedies like the Shirtwaist factory fire could happen again.

oh well, they can cry and wail all they want about how they were being treated in the UNEMPLOYMENT line along with 23 million others, their families must be proud of them..

Yup. Probably are. Because unlike you, they have not been sold on the idea that they all WANT to be unemployed. Because, you see, no one lives well on unemployment. It is just con tools who want to believe that they love living on a few bucks a month. Trying to make rent, or mortgage payments, and all the other necessities that they can no longer afford.
But cons love to believe they are enjoying being out of work. Simple to be a con. You just listen to the dogma and spout it when you get a chance. No need to actually think, or do research, or talk to those who are in the predicament that you choose to believe they have chosen.
And no need to see what needs to be done to get unemployment done. Like what has worked in the past. Just believe the dogma. No need to do research. No need to think.

What does textbook economics have to say about this question? Here is a passage from a textbook called "Macroeconomics":
Public policy designed to help workers who lose their jobs can lead to structural unemployment as an unintended side effect. . . . In other countries, particularly in Europe, benefits are more generous and last longer. The drawback to this generosity is that it reduces a worker's incentive to quickly find a new job. Generous unemployment benefits in some European countries are widely believed to be one of the main causes of "Eurosclerosis," the persistent high unemployment that affects a number of European countries.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Vulture capitalists buy a company to destroy it and - according to the right - the workers should get the blame.

Is this surprising to you?

Can anyone explain it?

Are right wingers just that stupid? Do they not realize that when vulture capitalists buy a company and give their CEO's big fat pay raises - the purpose is to milk as much cash out of the company before it goes out of business?

Vulture Capitalism Ate Your Twinkies | The Nation

The BCTGM workers did not ask for more pay.

The BCTGM workers did not ask for more benefits.

The BCTGM workers did not ask for better pensions

 

[martybegan]

Vulture capitalists buy a company to destroy it and - according to the right - the workers should get the blame.

Is this surprising to you?

Can anyone explain it?

Are right wingers just that stupid? Do they not realize that when vulture capitalists buy a company and give their CEO's big fat pay raises - the purpose is to milk as much cash out of the company before it goes out of business?

Vulture Capitalism Ate Your Twinkies | The Nation

The BCTGM workers did not ask for more pay.

The BCTGM workers did not ask for more benefits.

The BCTGM workers did not ask for better pensions

The company was already in the crapper, when the new captial was aquired. A healthy, established company does not need venture capital, it can provide it from other, safer sources.

The true indicator of how dumb the bakers union was is that the TEAMSTERS TOOK THE DEAL. If the teamsters realized that the deal they were getting was as good as they were going to get, and the teamsters are a pretty strong union, one has to wonder what the fuck the bakers were thinking.

Also remember that teamster members are far more mobile when it comes to getting similar jobs in different industries, unlike, say a bakers union. The fact that they could reasonably assume they could re-employ thier members and they STILL took the deal should speak volumes about the financial situation of hostess.

 

[Caroljo]

Vulture capitalists buy a company to destroy it and - according to the right - the workers should get the blame.

Is this surprising to you?

Can anyone explain it?

Are right wingers just that stupid? Do they not realize that when vulture capitalists buy a company and give their CEO's big fat pay raises - the purpose is to milk as much cash out of the company before it goes out of business?

Vulture Capitalism Ate Your Twinkies | The Nation

The BCTGM workers did not ask for more pay.

The BCTGM workers did not ask for more benefits.

The BCTGM workers did not ask for better pensions

No...it's nobody's fault, the Mayans predicted it!

 

[Katzndogz]

The Baker's Union bosses have given indications that they deliberately caused Hostess to go under so that it could blame Bain style tactics for the company's demise.

 

[Mr Natural]

The problem with America is that working people make too much.

"Prosperity Through Lower Wages!"

 

[Katzndogz]

The problem with America is that working people have given strong indications that they are just tired of working and would prefer cradle to grave retirement.