"Hope" and "Change"???? Definitely "Change"... but not much "Hope"

[Zaphod]

Do you think the democrats would even consider one from the right?

The public will.... it is the public that elects politicians.
It is dishonest and LAZY to assume no one will listen to your supposedly BETTER ideas, that you CLAIM to have and then never present them for debate and let the American people make up their own minds, and hold their elected politician accountable for choosing the WRONG plan.

Could it be that the Republicans are just trying to put party interests FIRST and play politics with national health care?
If Republicans WANT my vote again, they will have to DO SOMETHING other than complain... Like show me that they have BETTER ideas!

 

[Skull Pilot]

You want to judge me go read some of my old posts.

Says the guy judging me based on his interpretation of my posts in THIS thread. So based on what you have posted in THIS thread, which is what you defiantly judge ME on, how am I wrong?

All fucking politicians do is divide America for political gain you fucking idiot.

REALLY? so tell me genius, where in my post did I say only some did? Perhaps this is what passes for intellect in your linear family tree! NOT reading what was said, judging others while telling others not to judge you, making assumptions and posting moronic statements like that! I never claimed that they didn't IDIOT... READ what I posted, there was NOTHING partisan about it, MORON.

People like me who say government is too big, too expensive and too intrusive are the ones being true to the root philosophies of this country.

NOT if you keep voting for people that GROW the government and support it being intrusive because the politicians have the right letter next to their name!

And since you're new here I'll tell you that I do not belong to any political party and that I am more of a liberal than any dimocrat on this board. But unlike them I actually believe in liberty and the freedom to make my own choices and not having the fucking government make them for me.

I hate both political parties equally. I think they are tearing America apart with their constant partisanship for a political agenda. They put Party and politics before country, and those that elected them and pay their salaries.

I support health care reform, and the ONLY option I see before congress is the Dims plan! Doing NOTHING is just not an option to me, and I do not but all the SPIN from the Republicans about the current reform proposal!

You have no fucking idea who i did or did not vote for do you?

And if you truly are concerned about the growth of government, how can you support anything either of the two parties have done or are doing right now?

And it ain't spin to say the government will fuck up health care. History proves it's a fact.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

The only thing I hear coming from his lips is more rhetorical BS and absolutely no specifics.

Why do you insist on remaining ignorant?

So that bill being debated in congress is not a plan, you know the one the Republicans are complaining about, and the bill proposed by the Republicans is a plan? Oh wait, there was no proposal from the Republicans... MY BAD... WOW, talk about no specifics, do you ever hold your party to the same standard you hold the other party to?
You do understand that partisanship is BAD no matter what side you are on, don't you?
Why won't the Republicans propose their plan again? Is it the same plan that McCain proposed in the 2008 campaign that they know the voters will reject more that they are rejecting the Obama plan perhaps?

I see so Obama can come on TV and spout all kinds of bullshit with no specifics and you call that a plan. But when the republicans come up with alternative ideas you simply dismiss it because it lacks specifics. Typical.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

No, he has plans to fix the problems he talks about... While I do not agree with all the plans, I do agree that they are addressing actual problems and are presenting a plan of action, as opposed to the Republican plan of do nothing, there are no problems, and the fundamentals of the economy are STRONG....

He has plans? When is he going to let us know what those plans are?

The only thing I hear coming from his lips is more rhetorical BS and absolutely no specifics.

Why do you insist on remaining ignorant?

The republicans have no plan, indeed.

Uh did you even bother reading what you linked to?? What they did was present an IDEA not a detailed PLAN with actual steps. They presented a FIFTEEN page pdf file that is full of "rhetorical BS and absolutely no specifics" It lacks substance.

"How much the Republican plan would cost and how many uninsured Americans would gain coverage remains unclear. Rep. Roy Blunt (R-Mo.) said "we believe we can come up with a plan where every person in the uninsured has access to insurance."

So yeah zaph was right, the republicans have no REAL alternative plan.

What plan has Obama brought to the table?

What specifics did he mention in his press conference the other night?

The repubicans have a plan. you'e just to drunk on obama kool-aid to recognize it.

http://www.gopleader.gov/UploadedFiles/06-17-09_House__GOP_Solutions__Group__Outline.pdf

 

[Lonestar_logic]

They presented a FIFTEEN page pdf file

a whole 15 page plan for a comprehensive national health care plan? Is that like a budget proposal with no numbers in it?

Where is obama's plan?

 

[drsmith1072]

The only thing I hear coming from his lips is more rhetorical BS and absolutely no specifics.

Why do you insist on remaining ignorant?

So that bill being debated in congress is not a plan, you know the one the Republicans are complaining about, and the bill proposed by the Republicans is a plan? Oh wait, there was no proposal from the Republicans... MY BAD... WOW, talk about no specifics, do you ever hold your party to the same standard you hold the other party to?
You do understand that partisanship is BAD no matter what side you are on, don't you?
Why won't the Republicans propose their plan again? Is it the same plan that McCain proposed in the 2008 campaign that they know the voters will reject more that they are rejecting the Obama plan perhaps?

I see so Obama can come on TV and spout all kinds of bullshit with no specifics and you call that a plan. But when the republicans come up with alternative ideas you simply dismiss it because it lacks specifics. Typical.

In case you missed it, you were the one being dismissive. I only applied YOUR standrard to the republican "plan." If you have a problem with that standard then please look to the source. However, that would require you to take a long hard and honest look in the mirror and i just doubt that you have it in you.

 

[Zaphod]

You have no fucking idea who i did or did not vote for do you?

Did not claim to either, did I? Have you voted for a candidate that won and did not grow the government or deficit?

And if you truly are concerned about the growth of government, how can you support anything either of the two parties have done or are doing right now?

Who says I do? But I'm limited by my available options here...

And it ain't spin to say the government will fuck up health care. History proves it's a fact.

Did not imply that it was, but it is an assumption. The spin part is calling it government run health care. Sure, there is an option to choose the public plan, but that is just an option, and I've never seen options as bad things to have.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Do you think the democrats would even consider one from the right?

The public will.... it is the public that elects politicians.
It is dishonest and LAZY to assume no one will listen to your supposedly BETTER ideas, that you CLAIM to have and then never present them for debate and let the American people make up their own minds, and hold their elected politician accountable for choosing the WRONG plan.

Could it be that the Republicans are just trying to put party interests FIRST and play politics with national health care?
If Republicans WANT my vote again, they will have to DO SOMETHING other than complain... Like show me that they have BETTER ideas!

What part of the republican plan do you disagree with. And remember it's a "plan" not a 1000 page piece of legislation.

 

[Zaphod]

Where is obama's plan?

Hello, it is that thing being debated in the houses, you know, that thing the Republicans are Crying about nightly? Now what proposal have the Republicans put on the table to be debated openly?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

So that bill being debated in congress is not a plan, you know the one the Republicans are complaining about, and the bill proposed by the Republicans is a plan? Oh wait, there was no proposal from the Republicans... MY BAD... WOW, talk about no specifics, do you ever hold your party to the same standard you hold the other party to?
You do understand that partisanship is BAD no matter what side you are on, don't you?
Why won't the Republicans propose their plan again? Is it the same plan that McCain proposed in the 2008 campaign that they know the voters will reject more that they are rejecting the Obama plan perhaps?

I see so Obama can come on TV and spout all kinds of bullshit with no specifics and you call that a plan. But when the republicans come up with alternative ideas you simply dismiss it because it lacks specifics. Typical.

In case you missed it, you were the one being dismissive. I only applied YOUR standrard to the republican "plan." If you have a problem with that standard then please look to the source. However, that would require you to take a long hard and honest look in the mirror and i just doubt that you have it in you.

Hey Nancy, Zaphuk said Obama has a plan. But I've yet to see it. Have you seen it? Now the democrats proposed a healthcare bill but it's nothing like what Obama talked about in his latest press conference. So are you trying to say that the democrats plan and Obama's plan are one and the same? I don't think Obama is aware of that.

Have you read what the republicans outlined in their plan? If so, then what part of it do you disagree with?

 

[drsmith1072]

He has plans? When is he going to let us know what those plans are?

The only thing I hear coming from his lips is more rhetorical BS and absolutely no specifics.

Why do you insist on remaining ignorant?

The republicans have no plan, indeed.

Uh did you even bother reading what you linked to?? What they did was present an IDEA not a detailed PLAN with actual steps. They presented a FIFTEEN page pdf file that is full of "rhetorical BS and absolutely no specifics" It lacks substance.

"How much the Republican plan would cost and how many uninsured Americans would gain coverage remains unclear. Rep. Roy Blunt (R-Mo.) said "we believe we can come up with a plan where every person in the uninsured has access to insurance."

So yeah zaph was right, the republicans have no REAL alternative plan.

What plan has Obama brought to the table?

What specifics did he mention in his press conference the other night?

The repubicans have a plan. you'e just to drunk on obama kool-aid to recognize it.

LOL how can you honestly criticize obama for presenting what you claim to be "rhetorical BS and absolutely no specifics” and then try to praise the republican "plan" when it fits that description perfectly?? If you are that blind to your own hypocrisy then the only one drinking kool-aid, is YOU.

The funny thing is that I even quoted your own article that states the republican plan lacks specifics and you can't even deal with that FACT let alone the FACT that a republican when talking about this "plan" admits that they don't have a plan when he states the following, Rep. Roy Blunt (R-Mo.) said "we believe we can come up with a plan where every person in the uninsured has access to insurance."
If you have to "come up with" something it means that you don't have it yet.

 

[Zaphod]

LOL how can you honestly criticize obama

There you go again with those "GOTCHA" qualifiers like 'honestly'...

 

[Skull Pilot]

You have no fucking idea who i did or did not vote for do you?

Did not claim to either, did I? Have you voted for a candidate that won and did not grow the government or deficit?

I do not vote for Dimocrats nor Repudlicans because all they do is increase the size scope cost and intrusiveness of government.

And if you truly are concerned about the growth of government, how can you support anything either of the two parties have done or are doing right now?

Who says I do? But I'm limited by my available options here...

You forgot an option. Saying no to both and finding a better plan

And it ain't spin to say the government will fuck up health care. History proves it's a fact.

Did not imply that it was, but it is an assumption. The spin part is calling it government run health care. Sure, there is an option to choose the public plan, but that is just an option, and I've never seen options as bad things to have.

The term "public option" IS spin.

The notion that a public insurance option will result in increased competition is ludicrous. there is no competition when a public plan can draw on unlimited resources of our tax dollars to prop it up even if it is failing.

A private company cannot do that so guess who wins the "competition" The fucking government.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Where is obama's plan?

Hello, it is that thing being debated in the houses, you know, that thing the Republicans are Crying about nightly? Now what proposal have the Republicans put on the table to be debated openly?

I see so Obama himself doesn't have a plan. which you said he did. So I guess that makes you a liar.

The bill the democrats are trying to push doesn't even remotely resemble what Obama spoke about in his latest press conference. Remember Obama said, "I want to be very clear: I will not sign on to any health plan that adds to our deficits over the next decade,". Well the plan the democrats are pushing will in fact add to the deficit according to the Congressional Budget Office when it reported that the overall cost of the House bill would "result in a net increase in the federal budget deficit of $239 billion over the 2010-2019 period."

Obama promised: “If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor. Period. If you like your health care plan, you will be able to keep your health care plan. Period. No one will take it away. No matter what.”

Well again the CBO disagrees. According to their analysis, bill would enable 39 million Americans to obtain health insurance, the plan would kick about 15 million people out of the system because their employers would no longer offer insurance, and coverage from other sources would decline by 8 million.

So there's two examples of of the differences in what Obama invisions and what the democrats or putting forth.

 

[KMAN]

How about we just blow sunshine up your ass and chant "yes we can"
would that make you feel better?

Not any better than sitting around whining and crying like teen age drama queens... Both are equally useless! Congratulations! YOU are as useless as what you complain about!

Hey Fuck nut,

You have no idea what I do. How many letters have you written your no fucking good representatives in the last month?

How many town meetings have you gone to?

how many new political candidates have you helped?

On all counts i guarantee you've done less than me

So fuck off.

Judging by our "NEW" politicians, perhaps you would serve the country better by not helping them out...

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Uh did you even bother reading what you linked to?? What they did was present an IDEA not a detailed PLAN with actual steps. They presented a FIFTEEN page pdf file that is full of "rhetorical BS and absolutely no specifics" It lacks substance.

"How much the Republican plan would cost and how many uninsured Americans would gain coverage remains unclear. Rep. Roy Blunt (R-Mo.) said "we believe we can come up with a plan where every person in the uninsured has access to insurance."

So yeah zaph was right, the republicans have no REAL alternative plan.

What plan has Obama brought to the table?

What specifics did he mention in his press conference the other night?

The repubicans have a plan. you'e just to drunk on obama kool-aid to recognize it.

LOL how can you honestly criticize obama for presenting what you claim to be "rhetorical BS and absolutely no specifics” and then try to praise the republican "plan" when it fits that description perfectly?? If you are that blind to your own hypocrisy then the only one drinking kool-aid, is YOU.

The funny thing is that I even quoted your own article that states the republican plan lacks specifics and you can't even deal with that FACT let alone the FACT that a republican when talking about this "plan" admits that they don't have a plan when he states the following, Rep. Roy Blunt (R-Mo.) said "we believe we can come up with a plan where every person in the uninsured has access to insurance."
If you have to "come up with" something it means that you don't have it yet.

Hey stupid, show me where I " praised the republican plan". What I presented was evidence that the republicans had a plan which directly countered dumbfucks argument that the republicans had no plan. Whether or not the plan has specifics in it or not is beside the point. Dumbfucks argument was Obama's plan,which he doesn't have but you people seem to think his plan and the democratic plan is one and the same. And maybe it is but the one doesn't resemble the other.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Lonestar is correct.

Obama did not put forth the plan for congress. he told congress (That bloodsucker Bella Pelosi and her moonbat minions that is) to write it. Not read it mind you but write it.

This deference to congress also highlights one of Obama's hypocrisies.

Did he not say lobbyists will not be welcome in the White House?

The why does he let congress draft all of his bills on his so called important issues when the halls and backrooms of congress are exactly where the lobbyists live and do most of their damage?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Not any better than sitting around whining and crying like teen age drama queens... Both are equally useless! Congratulations! YOU are as useless as what you complain about!

Hey Fuck nut,

You have no idea what I do. How many letters have you written your no fucking good representatives in the last month?

How many town meetings have you gone to?

how many new political candidates have you helped?

On all counts i guarantee you've done less than me

So fuck off.

Judging by our "NEW" politicians, perhaps you would serve the country better by not helping them out...

That depends on who they are, but I hear you.

Politicians are not to be trusted ever.

 

[Zaphod]

I see so Obama himself doesn't have a plan. which you said he did. So I guess that makes you a liar.

Pfft, the bill currently in the house is a work in progress. as EVERY piece of legislation is. What goes into the meat grinder does not always look the same when it comes out. It is the constitutional legislative process in action, and it is the same for EVERY president. If THAT is your standard, Bush NEVER had any plans... and neither will any president!

Well again the CBO disagrees. According to their analysis, bill would enable 39 million Americans to obtain health insurance, the plan would kick about 15 million people out of the system because their employers would no longer offer insurance, and coverage from other sources would decline by 8 million.

So how does it make it MORE affordable, so that 39 million MORE can afford it, while at the same time make it so that employers could no longer afford it? Unless they would not offer it for other reasons than affordability?
I smell spin...

 

[Zaphod]

Whether or not the plan has specifics in it or not is beside the point.

ROTFLMAO!!!!!

Nuff said!
IT IS A PLAN!!! JUST IGNORE THE LACK OF DETAILS!
How partisan is that, really?