Historical Jesus: The unchanging reality of the New Testament record.

[HaShev]

OP stated: There is no "new evidence"

That is so not true and clear cut denial.
It's like stating a bear doesn't go in the woods simply because you never seen it.
The irony is you could be walking in it, have it on your shoes, smell something funky and yet still deny it.
Sort of like how you walked right into it here.

 

[Iceweasel]

OP stated: There is no "new evidence"

That is so not true and clear cut denial.
It's like stating a bear doesn't go in the woods simply because you never seen it.
The irony is you could be walking in it, have it on your shoes, smell something funky and yet still deny it.
Sort of like how you walked right into it here.

How about posting the new evidence instead of the bear shitting in the woods rhetoric?

 

[HaShev]

I have if you follow my posts.
The simplest evidence is in the historical tracking of figures claimed in the christs accounts.
Example Herod who died in 4bc so they recreated Jesus birth back to 6bc, hiwever that fails because of the 7bc census and Lysanias who died in 35bc making the Herod Ltsanias era christ Yehuda the Galilean christ who was sentenced by Rome for his TAX REVOLT in 6bc.
The only ad era christs by the Jordan was Theudas who died in 45 ad (john states Jesus was closer to 50) so that fits and thats the one by the Jordan with the apostles who died martyrs.
Yeshu son of Mary who fled to Egypt to avoid Jannaeus revolt and learned forbidden maggie who died by stoning and hanging on passover is dated by King Jannaeus and his wife Salome who was Yeshus friend and follower thus living in 100bc is not the same as the Galilean nor Jordan River Christ. Widows mite is also oroof since it's a king Jannaeus coin. Furthermore they kept meticulous records of their famous rabbis one being Yeshus mentor Yohoshua ben Parachyah.=100bc.
Salone reinstated the head priest Shimon to the temple thus Shimon becones peter when they combine and borrow stories from the other christs.
Acts I think 5 has these other christs mentioned as does Josephus, and James and Paul seem to argue that each is teaching another christ then they are.
By the way Saul/Paul iscslso a proven combined character, even acts exposes that too when Saul runs into Sergius Paulus called Paul.

 

[HaShev]

excuse the typos I am on a phone and editing sometimes fails.

 

[Iceweasel]

I have if you follow my posts.
The simplest evidence is in the historical tracking of figures claimed in the christs accounts.
Example Herod who died in 4bc so they recreated Jesus birth back to 6bc, hiwever that fails because of the 7bc census and Lysanias who died in 35bc making the Herod Ltsanias era christ Yehuda the Galilean christ who was sentenced by Rome for his TAX REVOLT in 6bc.
The only ad era christs by the Jordan was Theudas who died in 45 ad (john states Jesus was closer to 50) so that fits and thats the one by the Jordan with the apostles who died martyrs.
Yeshu son of Mary who fled to Egypt to avoid Jannaeus revolt and learned forbidden maggie who died by stoning and hanging on passover is dated by King Jannaeus and his wife Salome who was Yeshus friend and follower thus living in 100bc is not the same as the Galilean nor Jordan River Christ. Widows mite is also oroof since it's a king Jannaeus coin. Furthermore they kept meticulous records of their famous rabbis one being Yeshus mentor Yohoshua ben Parachyah.=100bc.
Salone reinstated the head priest Shimon to the temple thus Shimon becones peter when they combine and borrow stories from the other christs.
Acts I think 5 has these other christs mentioned as does Josephus, and James and Paul seem to argue that each is teaching another christ then they are.
By the way Saul/Paul iscslso a proven combined character, even acts exposes that too when Saul runs into Sergius Paulus called Paul.

Well, that's better and I don't disagree that the stories borrowed from real life and legend. Just like the gunslingers in the wild west. Many people still believe it because Hollywood says so.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

And now gentlemen, since both D_T and Iceweasal seem to becoming more and more agitated and angry and insulting and personally abusive as the discussion goes along, I will take my leave. I enjoy discussing topics like this with people who don't get mad if others don't agree with them. Thank you for understanding. And do have a pleasant evening.

I love debating, especially religion, science, and politics. I don't understand why so many of those debating on these forums resort to insults and rudeness or why they get so angry. Debating is learning and an opportunity to re-evaluate and review one's own frameworks and foundations for a particular point-of-view or position. It's fun!

I don't get angry about someone arguing with me about these kinds of topics, though, admittedly, I sometimes get frustrated, but debating is why I come to this website.

You and I disagree on many things, but because of how you respectfully conduct your debates and your obvious intelligence, I respect you and read your posts and click on your threads.

I wish there were more like you. It would make these forums so much more positive and open.

 

[Iceweasel]

You and I disagree on many things, but because of how you respectfully conduct your debates and your obvious intelligence, I respect you and read your posts and click on your threads.

I wish there were more like you. It would make these forums so much more positive and open.

You did some selective reasoning then. I asked her questions she couldn't answer and came back with "And now gentlemen, since both D_T and Iceweasal seem to becoming more and more agitated and angry and insulting and personally abusive as the discussion goes along,"

...which was an outright lie. In biblical terms it would be called "a false witness".

 

[Foxfyre]

And now gentlemen, since both D_T and Iceweasal seem to becoming more and more agitated and angry and insulting and personally abusive as the discussion goes along, I will take my leave. I enjoy discussing topics like this with people who don't get mad if others don't agree with them. Thank you for understanding. And do have a pleasant evening.

I love debating, especially religion, science, and politics. I don't understand why so many of those debating on these forums resort to insults and rudeness or why they get so angry. Debating is learning and an opportunity to re-evaluate and review one's own frameworks and foundations for a particular point-of-view or position. It's fun!

I don't get angry about someone arguing with me about these kinds of topics, though, admittedly, I sometimes get frustrated, but debating is why I come to this website.

You and I disagree on many things, but because of how you respectfully conduct your debates and your obvious intelligence, I respect you and read your posts and click on your threads.

I wish there were more like you. It would make these forums so much more positive and open.

Entirely off topic. I will agree that I do try to treat others as I would like to be treated. The intellect part is definitely open for debate. But thanks. A very nice compliment and I too wish there were more who knew how to have a discussion with opposing points of view without making it unpleasantly personal.

 

[Syriusly]

When examined, the “Historical Jesus” movement of the last 100 years has unearthed nothing that undermines the Gospel accounts. There is no "new evidence" supporting the idea that Jesus was merely a “good man.” There is no “new evidence” debunking the accounts of miracles and the resurrection based on new analysis of “myth theory” over a long period of time. To the contrary, recent discoveries have given more credibility to the nature and content of the New Testament record than ever before - See more at: Historical Jesus

On the other hand there is no new evidence that Jesus ever performed any miracles or was ever resurrected.

I don't have a problem with you believing it- just wish you would live life like Jesus told you to.

 

[HaShev]

I don't disagree that the stories borrowed from real life and legend. Just like the gunslingers in the wild west. Many people still believe it because Hollywood says so.

Yeah and society always seems to be attracted to those villains, as they glorify the wild west train, stage coach, and bank robbers and outlaws, as they glorify the mobsters in our day. Here Rome is selling the Lucifer character in the Bible and blatantly making that character a replacement for both Moshiach and G-D as the adversary of them both and the temple priests and Israel who had pockets of revolters at the time.
They even defeated their enemy revolters like the Yehuda Galilean Christ followers through merging his image with the other christs thus swallowing whole all the christ cults into one new world pagan religion masking the same old Baal worship. In fact you can't turn the TV channels without finding an evangelist asking for seed and harvest money=age worn Baal scam. Seriously every single one is sharing their seed/harvest lesson asking for donations right now, it's a constant thing right now, it's gotten that bad.

 

[Marxist]

A middle eastern Jew named Jesus existed, as did a man known as the prophet Muhammad. The problem is, their is no evidence for the miraculous acts.

 

[irosie91]

A middle eastern Jew named Jesus existed, as did a man known as the prophet Muhammad. The problem is, their is no evidence for the miraculous acts.

That's a problem for you?

 

[Marxist]

A middle eastern Jew named Jesus existed, as did a man known as the prophet Muhammad. The problem is, their is no evidence for the miraculous acts.

That's a problem for you?

No. I'm simply stating facts.

 

[Foxfyre]

A middle eastern Jew named Jesus existed, as did a man known as the prophet Muhammad. The problem is, their is no evidence for the miraculous acts.

That's a problem for you?

No. I'm simply stating facts.

There is no evidence that Washington crossed the Delaware, or that Neil Armstrong walked on the moon, or that Davy Crockett died at the Alamo. All we believe to be fact because of the historical record that exists, and we take it on faith that the historical record that exists is the way it was.

Those miracles in the Bible are no different.

 

[koshergrl]

A middle eastern Jew named Jesus existed, as did a man known as the prophet Muhammad. The problem is, their is no evidence for the miraculous acts.

That's a problem for you?

No. I'm simply stating facts.

There is no evidence that Washington crossed the Delaware, or that Neil Armstrong walked on the moon, or that Davy Crockett died at the Alamo. All we believe to be fact because of the historical record that exists, and we take it on faith that the historical record that exists is the way it was.

Those miracles in the Bible are no different.

Well they're different to the death cultists...because if they admit that they happened, they have to accept that they're doomed if they don't accept the gift of salvation...and that there will be a judgement for their actions on earth. People who reject Christ are happy in their belief they'll never be accountable for the truly horrendous sins they commit, because they believe the lie that if society accepts those sins, then they're not really sins..and there will be no reckoning.

 

[irosie91]

A middle eastern Jew named Jesus existed, as did a man known as the prophet Muhammad. The problem is, their is no evidence for the miraculous acts.

That's a problem for you?

No. I'm simply stating facts.

There is no evidence that Washington crossed the Delaware, or that Neil Armstrong walked on the moon, or that Davy Crockett died at the Alamo. All we believe to be fact because of the historical record that exists, and we take it on faith that the historical record that exists is the way it was.

Those miracles in the Bible are no different.

Well they're different to the death cultists...because if they admit that they happened, they have to accept that they're doomed if they don't accept the gift of salvation...and that there will be a judgement for their actions on earth. People who reject Christ are happy in their belief they'll never be accountable for the truly horrendous sins they commit, because they believe the lie that if society accepts those sins, then they're not really sins..and there will be no reckoning.

People who reject Christ are happy because they believe that
they will never be accountable for their sins? Christianity is
not the only creed that theorizes a judgement after death. LOTS
do

 

[koshergrl]

A middle eastern Jew named Jesus existed, as did a man known as the prophet Muhammad. The problem is, their is no evidence for the miraculous acts.

That's a problem for you?

No. I'm simply stating facts.

There is no evidence that Washington crossed the Delaware, or that Neil Armstrong walked on the moon, or that Davy Crockett died at the Alamo. All we believe to be fact because of the historical record that exists, and we take it on faith that the historical record that exists is the way it was.

Those miracles in the Bible are no different.

Well they're different to the death cultists...because if they admit that they happened, they have to accept that they're doomed if they don't accept the gift of salvation...and that there will be a judgement for their actions on earth. People who reject Christ are happy in their belief they'll never be accountable for the truly horrendous sins they commit, because they believe the lie that if society accepts those sins, then they're not really sins..and there will be no reckoning.

People who reject Christ are happy because they believe that
they will never be accountable for their sins? Christianity is
not the only creed that theorizes a judgement after death. LOTS
do

Don't talk to me, freak.

 

[Foxfyre]

A middle eastern Jew named Jesus existed, as did a man known as the prophet Muhammad. The problem is, their is no evidence for the miraculous acts.

That's a problem for you?

No. I'm simply stating facts.

There is no evidence that Washington crossed the Delaware, or that Neil Armstrong walked on the moon, or that Davy Crockett died at the Alamo. All we believe to be fact because of the historical record that exists, and we take it on faith that the historical record that exists is the way it was.

Those miracles in the Bible are no different.

Well they're different to the death cultists...because if they admit that they happened, they have to accept that they're doomed if they don't accept the gift of salvation...and that there will be a judgement for their actions on earth. People who reject Christ are happy in their belief they'll never be accountable for the truly horrendous sins they commit, because they believe the lie that if society accepts those sins, then they're not really sins..and there will be no reckoning.

I know you believe that, and I also believe that salvation is given through the Christ, though I am not at all convinced there is only one 'right' way to receive that. Believing that a man performed miracles does not automatically extrapolate into believing all the other doctrines put forth by those of the Christian faith.

 

[Marxist]

A middle eastern Jew named Jesus existed, as did a man known as the prophet Muhammad. The problem is, their is no evidence for the miraculous acts.

That's a problem for you?

No. I'm simply stating facts.

There is no evidence that Washington crossed the Delaware, or that Neil Armstrong walked on the moon, or that Davy Crockett died at the Alamo. All we believe to be fact because of the historical record that exists, and we take it on faith that the historical record that exists is the way it was.

Those miracles in the Bible are no different.

Ok, let alone that this is completely different, that the gospels were written decades after, and all of the other shit, tell me, are the acts of the quran true?

 

[Marxist]

A middle eastern Jew named Jesus existed, as did a man known as the prophet Muhammad. The problem is, their is no evidence for the miraculous acts.

That's a problem for you?

No. I'm simply stating facts.

There is no evidence that Washington crossed the Delaware, or that Neil Armstrong walked on the moon, or that Davy Crockett died at the Alamo. All we believe to be fact because of the historical record that exists, and we take it on faith that the historical record that exists is the way it was.

Those miracles in the Bible are no different.

Well they're different to the death cultists...because if they admit that they happened, they have to accept that they're doomed if they don't accept the gift of salvation...and that there will be a judgement for their actions on earth. People who reject Christ are happy in their belief they'll never be accountable for the truly horrendous sins they commit, because they believe the lie that if society accepts those sins, then they're not really sins..and there will be no reckoning.

What about Hinduism?