Hillary-Benghazi mom: may not fully recall about the video- so one is a liar-smart money on Hillary

Who is the liar on Benghazi

  • Hillary

    Votes: 25 89.3%
  • Pat Smith

    Votes: 3 10.7%

  • Total voters
    28
You know if someone just came to this country and watched 8 investigations over Benghazi, they would walk away with the impression that Republicans never lost a soldier in combat, never had a U.S Embassy attacked and never lost an Ambassador. Amazing--isn't it.

"Herein lies a lesson for Republicans who are perpetually trying to appease the far right: It’s a fool’s errand. They went to the tea party – and now they’re taking Donald Trump to the prom. Likewise, then-House Speaker John Boehner named the Benghazi committee because activists were dissatisfied that seven previous congressional investigations had failed to uncover major scandal material. Now an eighth has produced more of the same – and the agitators are as agitated as ever."
With Clinton exonerated, conspiracy theorists turn on Trey Gowdy

170498_600-2.jpg


 
CLINTON ON BENGHAZI MOTHER: SHE MAY NOT FULLY RECALL WHAT I TOLD THEM ABOUT THE VIDEO

Well they can't both be right
So if I had to pick which one is a liar
smart money on Hillary





I hear you Queen Hillary where could she have gotten that crazy idea




Yeah that was an odd new argument---they just don't remember it because they were grieving...my problem with that whole episode was that it even happened the way it did. The caskets were just off the planes and the family seeing them for the first time and Obama and Clinton whisking them in as props for televised speeches. It was hugely insensitive to the families under any version of what was or was not said.
 
CLINTON ON BENGHAZI MOTHER: SHE MAY NOT FULLY RECALL WHAT I TOLD THEM ABOUT THE VIDEO

Well they can't both be right
So if I had to pick which one is a liar
smart money on Hillary





I hear you Queen Hillary where could she have gotten that crazy idea


That second one of Hillary and the blame on the video would not open so here is a link in case others cannot get it open;
 
You know if someone just came to this country and watched 8 investigations over Benghazi, they would walk away with the impression that Republicans never lost a soldier in combat, never had a U.S Embassy attacked and never lost an Ambassador. Amazing--isn't it.

"Herein lies a lesson for Republicans who are perpetually trying to appease the far right: It’s a fool’s errand. They went to the tea party – and now they’re taking Donald Trump to the prom. Likewise, then-House Speaker John Boehner named the Benghazi committee because activists were dissatisfied that seven previous congressional investigations had failed to uncover major scandal material. Now an eighth has produced more of the same – and the agitators are as agitated as ever."
With Clinton exonerated, conspiracy theorists turn on Trey Gowdy

170498_600-2.jpg



Well if someone is asking for a job where they were in charge of millions of soldiers lives then we may look how they handled themselves with a few. Do you think Hillary was playing Pokeman Go?

Anyways, George W. Bush was investigated by the congress after the Iraq war.
 
There is no way people in power can really believe that Benghazi was caused by a youtube video? Do they have any proof that the video was seen by the people who attacked the embassy? And even if it was the government still has a responsibility to do as much as they can to help them.
 
You know if someone just came to this country and watched 8 investigations over Benghazi, they would walk away with the impression that Republicans never lost a soldier in combat, never had a U.S Embassy attacked and never lost an Ambassador. Amazing--isn't it.

"Herein lies a lesson for Republicans who are perpetually trying to appease the far right: It’s a fool’s errand. They went to the tea party – and now they’re taking Donald Trump to the prom. Likewise, then-House Speaker John Boehner named the Benghazi committee because activists were dissatisfied that seven previous congressional investigations had failed to uncover major scandal material. Now an eighth has produced more of the same – and the agitators are as agitated as ever."
With Clinton exonerated, conspiracy theorists turn on Trey Gowdy

170498_600-2.jpg


Or ever blamed those losses on a video....
 
CLINTON ON BENGHAZI MOTHER: SHE MAY NOT FULLY RECALL WHAT I TOLD THEM ABOUT THE VIDEO

Well they can't both be right
So if I had to pick which one is a liar
smart money on Hillary





I hear you Queen Hillary where could she have gotten that crazy idea


it amazes me here we have the CIA telling Hillary it was about the video ... WHY??? because in egypt they were rioting over the video ... and this is something you cat say didn't happen ... the CIA are the ones that were pushing the story about the video to Hillary ... when it turned out not to be about the video Hillary told the country to wasn't about the video and told them what it was about... then you
repub-lie-tards jump on this bull shit she lied ... no she didn't not lie ... she was given wrong information By the CIA and then it was corrected ... when are you ass holes going to get that through your fucking little heads ...are you thats stupid that you have to try and push your lie that she lied ??? just because you can't win an election ... people can see through your bull shit
 
You know if someone just came to this country and watched 8 investigations over Benghazi, they would walk away with the impression that Republicans never lost a soldier in combat, never had a U.S Embassy attacked and never lost an Ambassador. Amazing--isn't it.

"Herein lies a lesson for Republicans who are perpetually trying to appease the far right: It’s a fool’s errand. They went to the tea party – and now they’re taking Donald Trump to the prom. Likewise, then-House Speaker John Boehner named the Benghazi committee because activists were dissatisfied that seven previous congressional investigations had failed to uncover major scandal material. Now an eighth has produced more of the same – and the agitators are as agitated as ever."
With Clinton exonerated, conspiracy theorists turn on Trey Gowdy

170498_600-2.jpg


Or ever blamed those losses on a video....
sorry pall ... she never blamed it on a loss over a video ...the CIA did ...pull you head out of your fucking ass
 
Hillary told the entire country the same damn thing. She pretended to be so angry at the nasty video and was set to make sure the filmmaker was held responsible. It was reported immediately after Hillary met with the families that she promised them she'd get the filmmaker. She claimed it was a video that caused the attacks many times. It's on video. Of course, she told the parents that. She fucking told everyone that.

She didn't change her story until the facts were out there and everyone knew the truth. Once the emails were released confirming that she knew it was a terrorist attack before she announced that the attack was protesters upset over a video, she changed her story. Of course, she relies on useful idiots with short term memories so she can get away with it.

The story on why they didn't help the people changed a number of times, as well. And when you bring up something they said on camera, they still try to deny it. Just like when Obama tried to say that the people all misunderstood about keeping your doctors and plans.

No, they are the liars. And they lied many times on this matter and they can't be allowed to change the story yet again. Either she thinks that people are all as stupid as her sheeple, she is mentally ill, or she has just told so many lies that she can't keep them straight.
 
You know if someone just came to this country and watched 8 investigations over Benghazi, they would walk away with the impression that Republicans never lost a soldier in combat, never had a U.S Embassy attacked and never lost an Ambassador. Amazing--isn't it.

"Herein lies a lesson for Republicans who are perpetually trying to appease the far right: It’s a fool’s errand. They went to the tea party – and now they’re taking Donald Trump to the prom. Likewise, then-House Speaker John Boehner named the Benghazi committee because activists were dissatisfied that seven previous congressional investigations had failed to uncover major scandal material. Now an eighth has produced more of the same – and the agitators are as agitated as ever."
With Clinton exonerated, conspiracy theorists turn on Trey Gowdy

170498_600-2.jpg


Or ever blamed those losses on a video....
sorry pall ... she never blamed it on a loss over a video ...the CIA did ...pull you head out of your fucking ass

No she did, she told Pat Smith that, and the Obama administration tried to sell that lie.....smart people like me knew it was bullshit from day one....people like you....well they have a term...useful idiot.
 
Hillary told the entire country the same damn thing. She pretended to be so angry at the nasty video and was set to make sure the filmmaker was held responsible. It was reported immediately after Hillary met with the families that she promised them she'd get the filmmaker. She claimed it was a video that caused the attacks many times. It's on video. Of course, she told the parents that. She fucking told everyone that.

She didn't change her story until the facts were out there and everyone knew the truth. Once the emails were released confirming that she knew it was a terrorist attack before she announced that the attack was protesters upset over a video, she changed her story. Of course, she relies on useful idiots with short term memories so she can get away with it.

The story on why they didn't help the people changed a number of times, as well. And when you bring up something they said on camera, they still try to deny it. Just like when Obama tried to say that the people all misunderstood about keeping your doctors and plans.

No, they are the liars. And they lied many times on this matter and they can't be allowed to change the story yet again. Either she thinks that people are all as stupid as her sheeple, she is mentally ill, or she has just told so many lies that she can't keep them straight.



You obviously didn't watch the last 8th investigation during the 11 hour congressional testimony. If you remember that day there were 3 other embassies that were raided because of the video. That is a fact. So when Benghazi started they originally thought it was over the same reason. That's only logic.

Regardless Hillary Clinton has been cleared over any negligence related to Benghazi 8 times now. The 8th investigation cost the taxpayers of this country 7 million dollars to do.

We have troops and CIA agents all over the world in dangerous places that get killed all of the time. And we don't do 8 investigations.

During her opening statement she went through a very long list of other embassies that have been attacked, most notably under Reagan, when 240 U.S. Marines were killed in an embassy in Lebanon. Of course that was only one investigation. The DNC could have dragged up 240 grieving mothers to tell the world that Ronald Reagan killed their sons, but they didn't. Apparently they had a lot more integrity back in those days, something the new Trump party is greatly lacking in now a days.

Benghazi has been nothing more than a Reich wing dog and pony show for quite some time now. And it's playing on a lot of deaf ears as the emails are.

benghazifund.jpg
 
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Hillary told the entire country the same damn thing. She pretended to be so angry at the nasty video and was set to make sure the filmmaker was held responsible. It was reported immediately after Hillary met with the families that she promised them she'd get the filmmaker. She claimed it was a video that caused the attacks many times. It's on video. Of course, she told the parents that. She fucking told everyone that.

She didn't change her story until the facts were out there and everyone knew the truth. Once the emails were released confirming that she knew it was a terrorist attack before she announced that the attack was protesters upset over a video, she changed her story. Of course, she relies on useful idiots with short term memories so she can get away with it.

The story on why they didn't help the people changed a number of times, as well. And when you bring up something they said on camera, they still try to deny it. Just like when Obama tried to say that the people all misunderstood about keeping your doctors and plans.

No, they are the liars. And they lied many times on this matter and they can't be allowed to change the story yet again. Either she thinks that people are all as stupid as her sheeple, she is mentally ill, or she has just told so many lies that she can't keep them straight.



You obviously didn't watch the last 8th investigation during the 11 hour congressional testimony. If you remember that day there were 3 other embassies that were raided because of the video. That is a fact. So when Benghazi started they originally thought it was over the same reason. That's only logic.

Regardless Hillary Clinton has been cleared over any negligence related to Benghazi. We have troops and CIA agents all over the world and in dangerous places that get killed all of the time.

During her opening statement she went through a very long list of other embassies that have been attacked, most notably under Reagan, when 240 U.S. Marines were killed in an embassy in Lebanon. Of course that was only one investigation. The DNC could have dragged up 240 grieving mothers to tell the world that Ronald Reagan killed their sons, but they didn't. Apparently they had a lot more integrity back in those days.

Benghazi has been nothing more than a Reich wing dog and pony show for quite some time now.

benghazifund.jpg

She wasn't cleared....it was a not guilty...not an innocent type of verdict.....She did it with DENY DENY DENY
 
Hillary told the entire country the same damn thing. She pretended to be so angry at the nasty video and was set to make sure the filmmaker was held responsible. It was reported immediately after Hillary met with the families that she promised them she'd get the filmmaker. She claimed it was a video that caused the attacks many times. It's on video. Of course, she told the parents that. She fucking told everyone that.

She didn't change her story until the facts were out there and everyone knew the truth. Once the emails were released confirming that she knew it was a terrorist attack before she announced that the attack was protesters upset over a video, she changed her story. Of course, she relies on useful idiots with short term memories so she can get away with it.

The story on why they didn't help the people changed a number of times, as well. And when you bring up something they said on camera, they still try to deny it. Just like when Obama tried to say that the people all misunderstood about keeping your doctors and plans.

No, they are the liars. And they lied many times on this matter and they can't be allowed to change the story yet again. Either she thinks that people are all as stupid as her sheeple, she is mentally ill, or she has just told so many lies that she can't keep them straight.



You obviously didn't watch the last 8th investigation during the 11 hour congressional testimony. If you remember that day there were 3 other embassies that were raided because of the video. That is a fact. So when Benghazi started they originally thought it was over the same reason. That's only logic.

Regardless Hillary Clinton has been cleared over any negligence related to Benghazi. We have troops and CIA agents all over the world and in dangerous places that get killed all of the time.

During her opening statement she went through a very long list of other embassies that have been attacked, most notably under Reagan, when 240 U.S. Marines were killed in an embassy in Lebanon. Of course that was only one investigation. The DNC could have dragged up 240 grieving mothers to tell the world that Ronald Reagan killed their sons, but they didn't. Apparently they had a lot more integrity back in those days.

Benghazi has been nothing more than a Reich wing dog and pony show for quite some time now.

benghazifund.jpg

She wasn't cleared....it was a not guilty...not an innocent type of verdict.....She did it with DENY DENY DENY

Bullshit--she went under congressional testimony for 11 hours during the 8th investigation, and answered every question they asked dumbass. In the end Republicans looked like freaking idiots. She buried them.
Benghazi hearing ends after extraordinary 11-hour grilling of Clinton

Then the Reich wing turned on Trey Gowdy--LOL
Just yesterday, I predicted that some conservatives would turn on Gowdy, in whom they’d invested so much hope. The far-right South Carolinian was supposed to bury, not exonerate, Hillary Clinton, I wrote, and his inability to deliver a useful campaign weapon will likely be seen as both a failure and a betrayal.
A few hours later, far-right radio personality Michael Savage told his audience, “Trey Gowdy should be impeached for wasting my time! He promised us a lot! Remember?”
With Clinton exonerated, conspiracy theorists turn on Trey Gowdy

It's clear that Republicans used tax payer dollars for nothing more than a political dog & pony show on Benghazi.

There’s a certain twisted logic to this. The unhinged right starts with the ideologically satisfying answer – President Obama and Hillary Clinton are guilty of horrible Benghazi-related wrongdoing – and then works backwards, looking for “proof” that matches the conclusion. When their ostensible allies fail to tell these activists what they want to hear, they could reevaluate their bogus assumptions, but it’s vastly easier to believe Republicans have let them down.
With Clinton exonerated, conspiracy theorists turn on Trey Gowdy
Benghazi conspiracy theorists turn on Trey Gowdy





o-BENGHAZI-CARTOON-facebook.jpg
 
Last edited:
Hillary told the entire country the same damn thing. She pretended to be so angry at the nasty video and was set to make sure the filmmaker was held responsible. It was reported immediately after Hillary met with the families that she promised them she'd get the filmmaker. She claimed it was a video that caused the attacks many times. It's on video. Of course, she told the parents that. She fucking told everyone that.

She didn't change her story until the facts were out there and everyone knew the truth. Once the emails were released confirming that she knew it was a terrorist attack before she announced that the attack was protesters upset over a video, she changed her story. Of course, she relies on useful idiots with short term memories so she can get away with it.

The story on why they didn't help the people changed a number of times, as well. And when you bring up something they said on camera, they still try to deny it. Just like when Obama tried to say that the people all misunderstood about keeping your doctors and plans.

No, they are the liars. And they lied many times on this matter and they can't be allowed to change the story yet again. Either she thinks that people are all as stupid as her sheeple, she is mentally ill, or she has just told so many lies that she can't keep them straight.
you are so full of shit and you know it
 
Hillary told the entire country the same damn thing. She pretended to be so angry at the nasty video and was set to make sure the filmmaker was held responsible. It was reported immediately after Hillary met with the families that she promised them she'd get the filmmaker. She claimed it was a video that caused the attacks many times. It's on video. Of course, she told the parents that. She fucking told everyone that.

She didn't change her story until the facts were out there and everyone knew the truth. Once the emails were released confirming that she knew it was a terrorist attack before she announced that the attack was protesters upset over a video, she changed her story. Of course, she relies on useful idiots with short term memories so she can get away with it.

The story on why they didn't help the people changed a number of times, as well. And when you bring up something they said on camera, they still try to deny it. Just like when Obama tried to say that the people all misunderstood about keeping your doctors and plans.

No, they are the liars. And they lied many times on this matter and they can't be allowed to change the story yet again. Either she thinks that people are all as stupid as her sheeple, she is mentally ill, or she has just told so many lies that she can't keep them straight.



You obviously didn't watch the last 8th investigation during the 11 hour congressional testimony. If you remember that day there were 3 other embassies that were raided because of the video. That is a fact. So when Benghazi started they originally thought it was over the same reason. That's only logic.

Regardless Hillary Clinton has been cleared over any negligence related to Benghazi. We have troops and CIA agents all over the world and in dangerous places that get killed all of the time.

During her opening statement she went through a very long list of other embassies that have been attacked, most notably under Reagan, when 240 U.S. Marines were killed in an embassy in Lebanon. Of course that was only one investigation. The DNC could have dragged up 240 grieving mothers to tell the world that Ronald Reagan killed their sons, but they didn't. Apparently they had a lot more integrity back in those days.

Benghazi has been nothing more than a Reich wing dog and pony show for quite some time now.

benghazifund.jpg

She wasn't cleared....it was a not guilty...not an innocent type of verdict.....She did it with DENY DENY DENY

Bullshit--she went under congressional testimony for 11 hours during the 8th investigation, and answered every question they asked dumbass. In the end Republicans looked like freaking idiots. She buried them.
Benghazi hearing ends after extraordinary 11-hour grilling of Clinton

Then the Reich wing turned on Trey Gowdy--LOL
Just yesterday, I predicted that some conservatives would turn on Gowdy, in whom they’d invested so much hope. The far-right South Carolinian was supposed to bury, not exonerate, Hillary Clinton, I wrote, and his inability to deliver a useful campaign weapon will likely be seen as both a failure and a betrayal.
A few hours later, far-right radio personality Michael Savage told his audience, “Trey Gowdy should be impeached for wasting my time! He promised us a lot! Remember?”
With Clinton exonerated, conspiracy theorists turn on Trey Gowdy

It's clear that Republicans used tax payer dollars for nothing more than a political dog & pony show on Benghazi.

There’s a certain twisted logic to this. The unhinged right starts with the ideologically satisfying answer – President Obama and Hillary Clinton are guilty of horrible Benghazi-related wrongdoing – and then works backwards, looking for “proof” that matches the conclusion. When their ostensible allies fail to tell these activists what they want to hear, they could reevaluate their bogus assumptions, but it’s vastly easier to believe Republicans have let them down.
With Clinton exonerated, conspiracy theorists turn on Trey Gowdy
Benghazi conspiracy theorists turn on Trey Gowdy





o-BENGHAZI-CARTOON-facebook.jpg
these right wing nuts are so full of shit that they refuse to see the truth ... they have to try and make her into something she not cause they can't win a election any other way
 
Hillary told the entire country the same damn thing. She pretended to be so angry at the nasty video and was set to make sure the filmmaker was held responsible. It was reported immediately after Hillary met with the families that she promised them she'd get the filmmaker. She claimed it was a video that caused the attacks many times. It's on video. Of course, she told the parents that. She fucking told everyone that.

She didn't change her story until the facts were out there and everyone knew the truth. Once the emails were released confirming that she knew it was a terrorist attack before she announced that the attack was protesters upset over a video, she changed her story. Of course, she relies on useful idiots with short term memories so she can get away with it.

The story on why they didn't help the people changed a number of times, as well. And when you bring up something they said on camera, they still try to deny it. Just like when Obama tried to say that the people all misunderstood about keeping your doctors and plans.

No, they are the liars. And they lied many times on this matter and they can't be allowed to change the story yet again. Either she thinks that people are all as stupid as her sheeple, she is mentally ill, or she has just told so many lies that she can't keep them straight.



You obviously didn't watch the last 8th investigation during the 11 hour congressional testimony. If you remember that day there were 3 other embassies that were raided because of the video. That is a fact. So when Benghazi started they originally thought it was over the same reason. That's only logic.

Regardless Hillary Clinton has been cleared over any negligence related to Benghazi. We have troops and CIA agents all over the world and in dangerous places that get killed all of the time.

During her opening statement she went through a very long list of other embassies that have been attacked, most notably under Reagan, when 240 U.S. Marines were killed in an embassy in Lebanon. Of course that was only one investigation. The DNC could have dragged up 240 grieving mothers to tell the world that Ronald Reagan killed their sons, but they didn't. Apparently they had a lot more integrity back in those days.

Benghazi has been nothing more than a Reich wing dog and pony show for quite some time now.

benghazifund.jpg

She wasn't cleared....it was a not guilty...not an innocent type of verdict.....She did it with DENY DENY DENY

Bullshit--she went under congressional testimony for 11 hours during the 8th investigation, and answered every question they asked dumbass. In the end Republicans looked like freaking idiots. She buried them.
Benghazi hearing ends after extraordinary 11-hour grilling of Clinton

Then the Reich wing turned on Trey Gowdy--LOL
Just yesterday, I predicted that some conservatives would turn on Gowdy, in whom they’d invested so much hope. The far-right South Carolinian was supposed to bury, not exonerate, Hillary Clinton, I wrote, and his inability to deliver a useful campaign weapon will likely be seen as both a failure and a betrayal.
A few hours later, far-right radio personality Michael Savage told his audience, “Trey Gowdy should be impeached for wasting my time! He promised us a lot! Remember?”
With Clinton exonerated, conspiracy theorists turn on Trey Gowdy

It's clear that Republicans used tax payer dollars for nothing more than a political dog & pony show on Benghazi.

There’s a certain twisted logic to this. The unhinged right starts with the ideologically satisfying answer – President Obama and Hillary Clinton are guilty of horrible Benghazi-related wrongdoing – and then works backwards, looking for “proof” that matches the conclusion. When their ostensible allies fail to tell these activists what they want to hear, they could reevaluate their bogus assumptions, but it’s vastly easier to believe Republicans have let them down.
With Clinton exonerated, conspiracy theorists turn on Trey Gowdy
Benghazi conspiracy theorists turn on Trey Gowdy





o-BENGHAZI-CARTOON-facebook.jpg
these right wing nuts are so full of shit that they refuse to see the truth ... they have to try and make her into something she not cause they can't win a election any other way


Yeah spontaneous protests about a youtube video.....yeah thats,the ticket!
I'll put a deposit next to my name and you would suck my dick
 
Hillary told the entire country the same damn thing. She pretended to be so angry at the nasty video and was set to make sure the filmmaker was held responsible. It was reported immediately after Hillary met with the families that she promised them she'd get the filmmaker. She claimed it was a video that caused the attacks many times. It's on video. Of course, she told the parents that. She fucking told everyone that.

She didn't change her story until the facts were out there and everyone knew the truth. Once the emails were released confirming that she knew it was a terrorist attack before she announced that the attack was protesters upset over a video, she changed her story. Of course, she relies on useful idiots with short term memories so she can get away with it.

The story on why they didn't help the people changed a number of times, as well. And when you bring up something they said on camera, they still try to deny it. Just like when Obama tried to say that the people all misunderstood about keeping your doctors and plans.

No, they are the liars. And they lied many times on this matter and they can't be allowed to change the story yet again. Either she thinks that people are all as stupid as her sheeple, she is mentally ill, or she has just told so many lies that she can't keep them straight.



You obviously didn't watch the last 8th investigation during the 11 hour congressional testimony. If you remember that day there were 3 other embassies that were raided because of the video. That is a fact. So when Benghazi started they originally thought it was over the same reason. That's only logic.

Regardless Hillary Clinton has been cleared over any negligence related to Benghazi. We have troops and CIA agents all over the world and in dangerous places that get killed all of the time.

During her opening statement she went through a very long list of other embassies that have been attacked, most notably under Reagan, when 240 U.S. Marines were killed in an embassy in Lebanon. Of course that was only one investigation. The DNC could have dragged up 240 grieving mothers to tell the world that Ronald Reagan killed their sons, but they didn't. Apparently they had a lot more integrity back in those days.

Benghazi has been nothing more than a Reich wing dog and pony show for quite some time now.

benghazifund.jpg

She wasn't cleared....it was a not guilty...not an innocent type of verdict.....She did it with DENY DENY DENY
and we have another one that so full of shit ... this wasn't as hearing about a conviction ... it was a hearing on who did what, where and when ... what you can't get through your head is she never deny, deny, deny, anything ... each and every member who was involved in the benghazi attack gave their testimony on what happen ... it was the CIA who told her it was about a movie ... and she told the press it was about the movie ... the CIA told her the reason they believed it was about the movie was Egypt was having riots in their country over the movie... then it was the CIA who told Hillary it was terrorist ... both times when she became aware of what they believed the truth was she came to the press ... she correct the information to the country ... there wasn't this attempt too hide anything and the hearings proved that ... if you took some time to read them or even worse watch the hearings I did both ... the sad part here is you right wing nuts had to try and get a different conclusion 8 times and failed ...just because you can't win and election with out trying to make something out of nothing
 

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