Help the alliance defense fund defend christmas

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by actsnoblemartin, Nov 12, 2007.

  1. actsnoblemartin
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    actsnoblemartin I love Andrea & April

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    http://www.saychristmas.org

    Merry Christmas.
    It's okay to say it.™

    Christmas is a cherished time of year when Americans come together and celebrate something bigger than ourselves, something that has united us for generations. An event that is the center of all history—the birth of Jesus Christ.

    Surveys show that 95% of Americans celebrate Christmas. Yet, due to political correctness, disinformation, and even the threat of lawsuits from the ACLU and its allies, religious expression at Christmastime is increasingly absent from the public square. Slowly, this holy day is being turned into a secular “solstice season.”

    The Alliance Defense Fund works year-round to preserve and protect our religious liberties, including the right to…

    ...sing Christmas carols at school
    ...pass out candy canes to classmates
    ...call it “Christmas vacation”
    ...sponsor a nativity scene on public property
    ...say “Merry Christmas”

    ADF wants all Americans to know the Truth—that they have the freedom to celebrate Christmas publicly, joyfully, and without fear—for generations to come! We are launching our annual national Christmas Project™ to spread the message, “Merry Christmas. It’s okay to say it.™” Will you join with us?
     
  2. Shogun
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    Shogun Free: Mudholes Stomped

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    I have to admit..

    I laugh at this issue every XMAS....

    :eusa_whistle:
     
  3. actsnoblemartin
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    actsnoblemartin I love Andrea & April

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    with the upmost of respect i can muster for you

    I think your wrong on this issue.

    Have a nice day :eusa_angel:

     
  4. Shogun
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    fair enough.. lots of people think im wrong about a lot of things.


    Where is the cry for corporate autonomy anyway? If Target, as a corporation, wants to restrict THEIR emplyees from saying marry christmas in favor of Happy Holidays then how is it all of a sudden OK for conservatives to get their panties in a bunch? Isn't this capitolism? Can't those who get offended that they arent given wine and a cracker at the doorway take their business to wal mart?

    I think this is sensationalism at its finest. A fabricated conflict meant to whip christians into a frenzy. NO ONE is going to give up chistmas as a national holiday but you can't dictate how everyone celebrates it. It's such a farce as it is that jesus would be kicking moneychanger ass from black friday up to christmas morning anyway. He didn't die on the cross so that wal mart can sell tickle me elmos. His message was a lot deeper than trying to force geriatric doormen at a department store to say merry christmas. If your personal christian identity hinges on the attitude of a secular nation then I'm thinking you might want to skim through that bible again. Give unto Ceasar wasn't telling his flock to start pouting when his birthday isn't being observed enough. You'll attract no one to the faith by force.

    But, I'll bite...

    Can you show me some evidence besides opinion pieces and biased editorials?
     
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  5. actsnoblemartin
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    actsnoblemartin I love Andrea & April

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    me: evidence (as above)

    http://www.squidoo.com/war_on_christmas

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/rockwell/xmas.html
     
  6. Shogun
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    "Me: well im trying to be respect, I thought you wrong, not evil. besides im wrong plenty of times myself"

    It's nothing personal dude. :thup:


    "Me: conservatives, and christians see it as business pandering to the p.c. police because they dont want to offend anyone, thats what they object too. And youre right, they do go to other business but they also complain, using their freedom of speech, and the business cave in, to avoid losing business."


    PANDERING or not.. that IS their perogative as a business, yes? If they wanted to pander to christians by making every door greeter say "jesus loves you" then you wouldnt care, yes? I wouldn't because what the door greeter says to me means nothing to me and doesn't affect my shopping at all. Sure, they can complain as is their right... BUT, Target doesn't have to react to their complain, which is THEIR right. So, who is REALLY creating this "war" then? the PC crowd or the christians who want to inflict their dogmatic dominance? Is THIS really why jesus dies on the cross for you?



    "Me: the aclu, and some americans are very hostile towards christmas, ive met people, ive heard examples of schools not allowing a nativity scene and here are more concrete example"

    There is a good reason why a secular nation doesn't bend over backwards every time christians want to make jesus the national mascot. We ARE a nation of more than just christians. Hostile towards christmas? Can I play the same card when christians are HOSTILE towards halloween? Tell me, how is YOUR faith injured when a public school doesn't have a nativity scene? How are YOU limited in your personal religion when non-christians are not identical in their observation of the hilidays? We don't sic lions at you when you enter wal mart, dude.


    http://www.squidoo.com/war_on_christmas

    a BLOG? come on, dude. I said no editorials.


    "me: i agree about christmas being too commercial, see i knew we would agree on something ."

    Then why don't you spend more energy cleaning up the commerce instead of trying to force non-christians to convert during winter? As I see it, after having read the bible, jesus himself had more to say about the MONEYCHANGERS making a market out of his emssage than GIVING UNTO CEASAR his national holidays, yes?



    "Me: agreed."

    Then WHY on gods green earth are you MORE offended that stores make a decision to accomidate the masses rather than the total farce that the holiday has become in the first place? How does it offend you more that greeters at wal mart way happy holidays when it's santa, toys and candycanes that people identify with during the holidays than the birth of jesus? The REAL war on christmas was SOLD to us decades ago with red nosed reigndeers and snowmen with hats. Railing against companies who are reacting to MARKET FORCES in light of the hallmark holiday is what makes this issue a joke. Every year it makes me laugh. EVERY YEAR.


    "ME: i agree, but christians should be allowed to celebrate in the public squate without fear of another aclu lawsuit"


    And they can. NO one gets their house busted in becaue they have a nativity scene in their front yard. YOU are free to celebrate to your hearts content. You are NOT free to use a forum that represents everyone, christian and non-christian alike, to push dogma. If christians wer actually being persicuted then they would laugh at this kinda of fluff.


    "me: evidence (as above)"

    ME:Can you show me some evidence besides opinion pieces and biased editorials?

    Have a good evening, dude.
     

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