CDZ Have we literally lost the ability to solve our own problems?

[Mikeoxenormous]

Here is an interesting column that pertains to our discussion and YOU will find truthful. Rather gloomy for a Friday morning...but likely true.

I don't know how anyone could deny it.

I don't necessarily agree with the author that we need a new language to make sense of it though. I don't speak a foreign language. People just need to step back and look at the broader picture.

I don't believe most Americans will step back and look at the broader picture. They are asleep. Many still believe the USA is the greatest freest nation in the world. They WANT to believe this, though their eyes have to be telling them otherwise.

We as a nation are sleep walking into a train wreck.

Here is why liberals are allowed to get away with what they do...Until the sucking sound stops, it will continue.

 

[DOTR]

We are so convinced that our side is right and the other side is evil that we fail to investigate a situation, understand both sides, and talk with someone who
.

How about the possibility that one side is actually right and the other evil?

“Argument to moderation (Latin: argumentum ad temperantiam)—also known as [argument from] middle ground, false compromise, gray fallacy, and the golden mean fallacy—is an informal fallacy which asserts that the truth must be found as a compromise between two opposite positions.”

 

[dblack]

Fail to exercise a muscle and it will wither. Fail to exercise a skill and it will do the same.

Is that what has happened to our ability to communicate with those who dare to disagree with us? And if so, precisely how are we supposed to solve ANY problem, improve ANY situation?

How often do you see two people who disagree have a normal, civil, intelligent conversation any more, in the media, online, or in real life? I think we have literally lost the skill to have normal disagreements.

Has Society Lost Its Ability to Debate?

I think, as a society, we have abandoned our ability to do our research and debate. We allow our own allegiances (both in politics, religion, and other issues) to cloud our skills. I see it on my own newsfeed. People arguing, but no one is really saying anything. This lack of conversation divides people. It makes people puff out their chest and scream the loudest or say the nastiest of words in order to assert dominance in an argument. What does that accomplish? Nothing. It just burns more relationships.

We are so convinced that our side is right and the other side is evil that we fail to investigate a situation, understand both sides, and talk with someone whose opinions differ than your own. This type of behavior has highlighted a much more irrational side of our society. A side that causes more problems than solutions. Isn't that the point of conversation? To discuss an issue completely in order to fix it?

Thoughts?
.

l think the problem is directly related to the erosion of Constitutional limits on government. Perhaps there simply weren't enough limits in the first place. Regardless, we're now in a climate where every single social problem is fair game for government. From our jobs to our healthcare, even our sex lives and in our bathrooms, government rules all. In such an environment, it becomes crucial to control government - to have your 'guy' running things. If not, your most personal and fundamental freedoms are in jeopardy.

I'm reminded of the old joke that democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner. Well, we're at the point where we're voting on what to have for dinner. And if you don't want to end up as the main course you've got to win, by hook or by crook.

 

[midcan5]

Conservative snowflakes need a Trump, a blowhard to lead them and soothe their resentment that it is the other's fault. That the other is getting away with something or taking advantage. it seems to be a human trait of the weak. I'm not sure how you change this, look how dictators and charlatans come to power, they promise the impossible while blaming some segment of people, religion, culture etc. Immigrants are the modern scapegoat. For the interested reader see the books listed below.

"The fanatic is not really a stickler to principle. He embraces a cause not primarily because of its justness or holiness but because of his desperate need for something to hold onto." Eric Hoffer


Dark Money: The Hidden History of the Billionaires Behind the Rise of the Radical Right by Jane Mayer
On Tyranny: Twenty Lessons from the Twentieth Century by Timothy Snyder
Invisible Hands: The Making of the Conservative Movement from the New Deal to Reagan by Kim Phillips-Fein

 

[dblack]

We are so convinced that our side is right and the other side is evil that we fail to investigate a situation, understand both sides, and talk with someone who
.

How about the possibility that one side is actually right and the other evil?

Or the possibility that both sides are wrong?

 

[MisterBeale]

Fail to exercise a muscle and it will wither. Fail to exercise a skill and it will do the same.

Is that what has happened to our ability to communicate with those who dare to disagree with us? And if so, precisely how are we supposed to solve ANY problem, improve ANY situation?

How often do you see two people who disagree have a normal, civil, intelligent conversation any more, in the media, online, or in real life? I think we have literally lost the skill to have normal disagreements.

Has Society Lost Its Ability to Debate?

I think, as a society, we have abandoned our ability to do our research and debate. We allow our own allegiances (both in politics, religion, and other issues) to cloud our skills. I see it on my own newsfeed. People arguing, but no one is really saying anything. This lack of conversation divides people. It makes people puff out their chest and scream the loudest or say the nastiest of words in order to assert dominance in an argument. What does that accomplish? Nothing. It just burns more relationships.

We are so convinced that our side is right and the other side is evil that we fail to investigate a situation, understand both sides, and talk with someone whose opinions differ than your own. This type of behavior has highlighted a much more irrational side of our society. A side that causes more problems than solutions. Isn't that the point of conversation? To discuss an issue completely in order to fix it?

Thoughts?
.

When I was reading the article, I linked to a "credibility" of sources site, and gave me this chart. . . .

This chart is all based on Americans "opinions," it is not based on anything, no knowledge, no facts, it is not based on corporate interests, or how these organizations are ran. Thus, it makes this whole article just about useless on how to go about gathering, "facts."

The truth of the matter is, all of these sources have owners, editors, and journalists who are members of the Council on Foreign Relations. None of them are reliable source of the truth as they all have an agenda.

 

[Mac1958]

How about the possibility that one side is actually right and the other evil?

Sure. Both sides operate essentially from that simplistic, binary foundation regularly.

As a result, we are where are. Divided, and getting worse.
.

 

[Mac1958]

Well, the thread has so far pretty much illustrated its point, without actually addressing its point.

 

[Mac1958]

As long as people are buying the garbage the media dumps on us this will continue to be a problem.
The goal from day one, as soon as Trump was elected, was to cause division.
If you're a globalist then you believe what they tell us. If you're an American who feels we've been taken advantage of, much of what the press tells offends you.
If you're a fence-sitting never-Trumper....you're gonna complain about a lack of communication.

And what if you're a Trumper? Does that mean that you have "The Truth" on your side and don't have to engage in decent communication?
.

 

[Mac1958]

I think the government needs to start a program to force people to be more self-sufficient.

This isn't about government, it's about culture.

But government impacts culture in a big way, in the USA. A very big NEGATIVE way.

We're still responsible for our behaviors. We choose to engage in personal attacks, insults, name-calling, distortion, hyperbole and outright lies.

It may be that we think it will accomplish something constructive and positive. For the life of me, though, I don't know what that could be.
.

 

[Darkwind]

Caring.

The very first requirement of communication is caring about what the other person thinks. Otherwise, why have the conversation?

From that perspective, can easily identify exactly what is wrong by just examining this forum.

No one here gives a fuck what anyone else thinks or has to say.

So, I'm going to say Mango, with a hint of coconut.

 

[MarathonMike]

I've made multiple posts on this subject and I agree that true debate is all but gone in America. Take illegal immigration for example. You can't even begin with "Well this is a complex subject because....". You will immediately get an emotional reaction along the lines of "You are a heartless SOB" or "Deport all of them now!" It's as if the entire nation has become a version of the Jerry Springer show.

 

[oldsoul]

I think the government needs to start a program to force people to be more self-sufficient.

Did you even THINK about that statement before posting it? The government, in an effort to make the populace more self sufficient, should become even MORE involved in our lives? I can only assume you didn't think about it that way, otherwise you really are that short sighted.

How about this:
I think the government should scale back and expect people to become more self sufficient. We don't need another government program, we need fewer. That is what will get people to become more self sufficient.

 

[oldsoul]

Fail to exercise a muscle and it will wither. Fail to exercise a skill and it will do the same.

Is that what has happened to our ability to communicate with those who dare to disagree with us? And if so, precisely how are we supposed to solve ANY problem, improve ANY situation?

How often do you see two people who disagree have a normal, civil, intelligent conversation any more, in the media, online, or

Not a good sign so far.

Well everyone has there own "facts" nowadays. If you believe in unicorns its just a google click away to some shitty website that says unicorns are real. That website has the REAL truth! And msm is fake news!

WOW just WOW

 

[oldsoul]

Thoughts?

I communicate with people who disagree with me just fine.

Some of them even answer the points I make with something more meaningful than an emoji...

Imagine that.

What I don't do is go into a discussion ready to surrender the Sudetenland before the talks even begin. Because that would be stupid.

I communicate with people who disagree with me just fine.

Your signature tells a different story. Unless, of course, you can explain what Trump has done that is an impeachable offense.

 

[Mac1958]

I've made multiple posts on this subject and I agree that true debate is all but gone in America. Take illegal immigration for example. You can't even begin with "Well this is a complex subject because....". You will immediately get an emotional reaction along the lines of "You are a heartless SOB" or "Deport all of them now!" It's as if the entire nation has become a version of the Jerry Springer show.

Yep. I really do believe we've allowed our fundamental communication skills to deteriorate over the last few years. A normal adult might say something like, "I understand your point, and I can see where you're coming from, but..." But we can't even do that any more. It's as if people think that understanding equals weakness. So we just don't know how to say that any more.

If we can't engage in fundamental communication, we simply cannot fix our problems.
.

 

[oldsoul]

Conservative snowflakes need a Trump, a blowhard to lead them and soothe their resentment that it is the other's fault. That the other is getting away with something or taking advantage. it seems to be a human trait of the weak. I'm not sure how you change this, look how dictators and charlatans come to power, they promise the impossible while blaming some segment of people, religion, culture etc. Immigrants are the modern scapegoat. For the interested reader see the books listed below.

"The fanatic is not really a stickler to principle. He embraces a cause not primarily because of its justness or holiness but because of his desperate need for something to hold onto." Eric Hoffer


Dark Money: The Hidden History of the Billionaires Behind the Rise of the Radical Right by Jane Mayer
On Tyranny: Twenty Lessons from the Twentieth Century by Timothy Snyder
Invisible Hands: The Making of the Conservative Movement from the New Deal to Reagan by Kim Phillips-Fein

What you describe in your first paragraph is not unique to the right. There are just as many "blowhard"s on the left, there are just as many on the left that "promise the impossible while blaming..." someone else. There are just as many would be dictators and charatans on the left.

The problem here is not that one "side" or the other is better/worse than the other. The problem is that most people have bought into (or resigned themselves to) the concept that there are only two sides. The problem is not who is right or wrong, it is why can't our "leaders" actually lead? Forget party, ideology, etc. what about debating a topic based on facts, and ideas? No, it's cherry picked information (that suits your goals), and demonising your opponent. Just because we disagree does not make one of us wrong, and the other right.

Example:
I would say that living in a rural area is more pleasant.
Others would say urban is the way to go.
Who is right?
Both, because it depends on who you are and what is important to you. The same is true of anything that is less concrete than 2+2=4.

So how about we stop trying to "win" and that looking at those who have a differing opinion than you as adversaries? Looking at things this way is what leads to Fascism, Socialism, and ruin.

 

[Anathema]

Fail to exercise a muscle and it will wither. Fail to exercise a skill and it will do the same.

Is that what has happened to our ability to communicate with those who dare to disagree with us? And if so, precisely how are we supposed to solve ANY problem, improve ANY situation?

How often do you see two people who disagree have a normal, civil, intelligent conversation any more, in the media, online, or in real life? I think we have literally lost the skill to have normal disagreements.

Has Society Lost Its Ability to Debate?

I think, as a society, we have abandoned our ability to do our research and debate. We allow our own allegiances (both in politics, religion, and other issues) to cloud our skills. I see it on my own newsfeed. People arguing, but no one is really saying anything. This lack of conversation divides people. It makes people puff out their chest and scream the loudest or say the nastiest of words in order to assert dominance in an argument. What does that accomplish? Nothing. It just burns more relationships.

We are so convinced that our side is right and the other side is evil that we fail to investigate a situation, understand both sides, and talk with someone whose opinions differ than your own. This type of behavior has highlighted a much more irrational side of our society. A side that causes more problems than solutions. Isn't that the point of conversation? To discuss an issue completely in order to fix it?

Thoughts?
.

The problem is very simple... too many people want to engage in debate rather thsn discussion. They expect to chsnge the other person's mind or make the person agree with them rather thsn simply exchanging viewpoints.

I don't argue. I don't debate. My mind will not be changed, nor do I expect to change anyone else's mind. If more people understood these things, we'd be better off.

 

[fncceo]

I think the government needs to start a program to force people to be more self-sufficient.

Did you even THINK about that statement before posting it? The government, in an effort to make the populace more self sufficient, should become even MORE involved in our lives? I can only assume you didn't think about it that way, otherwise you really are that short sighted.

How about this:
I think the government should scale back and expect people to become more self sufficient. We don't need another government program, we need fewer. That is what will get people to become more self sufficient.

It's called irony.

 

[Mac1958]

Fail to exercise a muscle and it will wither. Fail to exercise a skill and it will do the same.

Is that what has happened to our ability to communicate with those who dare to disagree with us? And if so, precisely how are we supposed to solve ANY problem, improve ANY situation?

How often do you see two people who disagree have a normal, civil, intelligent conversation any more, in the media, online, or in real life? I think we have literally lost the skill to have normal disagreements.

Has Society Lost Its Ability to Debate?

I think, as a society, we have abandoned our ability to do our research and debate. We allow our own allegiances (both in politics, religion, and other issues) to cloud our skills. I see it on my own newsfeed. People arguing, but no one is really saying anything. This lack of conversation divides people. It makes people puff out their chest and scream the loudest or say the nastiest of words in order to assert dominance in an argument. What does that accomplish? Nothing. It just burns more relationships.

We are so convinced that our side is right and the other side is evil that we fail to investigate a situation, understand both sides, and talk with someone whose opinions differ than your own. This type of behavior has highlighted a much more irrational side of our society. A side that causes more problems than solutions. Isn't that the point of conversation? To discuss an issue completely in order to fix it?

Thoughts?
.

The problem is very simple... too many people want to engage in debate rather thsn discussion. They expect to chsnge the other person's mind or make the person agree with them rather thsn simply exchanging viewpoints.

I don't argue. I don't debate. My mind will not be changed, nor do I expect to change anyone else's mind. If more people understood these things, we'd be better off.

Do you feel that it's a good strategy, then, to not communicate and just let things take their course without communication?
.