Hate Crime

[Immanuel]

In order for laws to be righteous, they must be applied equally and fairly to all people. Hate crimes have become a bargaining tool for the prosecuters when it comes to plea deals. The more crimes they can charge you with the less the prosecuter has to work.

Think about it...A white male walks into a 7-11 and holds up the store, he kills the clerk in the robbery, who happens to be gay. How many crimes do you figure the criminal is charged with?

1) Larceny 2) larceny with the use of a firearm 3) Hate crime because the clerk was gay 4) computer crime because the criminal looked up the location of the 7-11 on line 5) resisting arrest because he tried to escape from the police. So on and so on and so on.

Now the prosecuter says I'll drop everything but the hate crime if you plead guilty? The criminal is overwhelmed and agrees. Prosecuter get his conviction and does not have to actually do any work. The problem with this type of deal is that innocent people end up in prison because they don't want to risk a lengthy jail stay. This is not justice.

Good post, but it seems more likely that when they charge a person and offer them a plea bargain, that they tell them they will drop the hate crime charges if the accused pleads guilty to the lesser charges.

And, I realize that analogies are never perfect but in the case of yours there is one big problem. The accused is actually guilty.

Immie

 

[California Girl]

It's a stupid, irrational law.

Example:

Thug beats up some guy gets 2 years in prison

Thug beats up some gay guy gets 2 years + whatever for a 'hate' crime.

Is either victim less beaten up? No.

Is either victims 'special'? No.

The law is ridiculous and panders to 'special interest' groups. I disapprove of any pandering to any group.

The Hate Crime charge would ONLY be applied IF: The thug was heard or seen to have targeted the gay guy strictly for his gaynes....AND: that would have to be proved in court.

Just like PREMEDITATED murder has to be proven...that too is a "thought crime".

No, it has to be 'planned' not 'thought about'. I could think 'hey, I could kill xxx' and that's not premeditated. But if I plan a murder, and then commit it, that is premeditated.

'Hate crime' that's a thought crime. All victims deserve equal justice. The law is not supposed to be different for you than it is for me. If it is, then where is the equality? No one is special.

 

[spectrumc01]

In order for laws to be righteous, they must be applied equally and fairly to all people. Hate crimes have become a bargaining tool for the prosecuters when it comes to plea deals. The more crimes they can charge you with the less the prosecuter has to work.

Think about it...A white male walks into a 7-11 and holds up the store, he kills the clerk in the robbery, who happens to be gay. How many crimes do you figure the criminal is charged with?

1) Larceny 2) larceny with the use of a firearm 3) Hate crime because the clerk was gay 4) computer crime because the criminal looked up the location of the 7-11 on line 5) resisting arrest because he tried to escape from the police. So on and so on and so on.

Now the prosecuter says I'll drop everything but the hate crime if you plead guilty? The criminal is overwhelmed and agrees. Prosecuter get his conviction and does not have to actually do any work. The problem with this type of deal is that innocent people end up in prison because they don't want to risk a lengthy jail stay. This is not justice.

Good post, but it seems more likely that when they charge a person and offer them a plea bargain, that they tell them they will drop the hate crime charges if the accused pleads guilty to the lesser charges.

And, I realize that analogies are never perfect but in the case of yours there is one big problem. The accused is actually guilty.

Immie

In the scenerio given the accused is guilty, but there are many other cases where they accused is not guilty. The appointed court attourney and the prosecuter usually come up with the deal and then the court appointed attourney sells it to his client. This is not justice. Depending on the aspirations of the prosecuter in his/her political carrear depends on who gets charged with what. This is where the hate crime becomes important because the prosecuter can use that conviction to endear him to certain minority groups.

 

[yidnar]

Motive is important in sentencing for crime.

Yes, yes, yes, we all know and the only victim who gets no consideration is the straight white male from the ages of 12 to 49. Everyone else claims special privileges.

Immie

If the straight white male is killed for no other reason than he is a straight white man that is a hate crime. It's amazing to me that people who consider themselves free of bias, have a problem with hate crime law.

Lillian Sossiko, a nine year old mixed race child, black and Russian, is stabbed in the neck, by two skinheads who manage the time to paint swastikas and graffiti and claim, "we did it, get out of here." That is a hate crime.

WHITES ARE MURDED BY BLACKS AT 80 TIMES THE RATE THAT BLACKS ARE MURDERED BY WHITES!!!silence from the cowardly hypocrites on the left!!

 

[strollingbones]

hate crime stuff is just to make race card players feel good....

everyone is all about hate crimes..when it is whites on black....but not black on white....

look at the statistical use of the hate crime legislation and see what it says

when the black killers of newsome/christian were not charged with a hate crime....one must stop and realize its all sound and fury

 

[strollingbones]

but then you have the white guys in fayetteville nc....who set out to kill them some blacks.....and killed the first couple they came across....is that a hate crimes....no....its still murder....

 

[Sky Dancer]

I am truly amazed at the overwhelmingly NEGATIVE response to this thread about hate crime law.

My friends are stunned by the ignorance.

Perhaps, none of you have lived in communites where hate crimes have been committed. We have.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Has hate crime legistlation detered any crime? Probably not. Its just legislation to court to certain groups so that legislators can say "see we are doing something".

Another caring individual with no bias.

I often find you to be quite condescending towards people who challenge your opinions, Sky.

If people want to be treated equally, then we must have equal treatment under the law. I passionately believe in equal treatment under the law. That means that all victims of crime should be treated as equally important. You are not special. I am not either. No one is. At least, they shouldn't be - under the law.

Why the hell some people think crimes against them are more important than crimes against others is beyond me.

You're right. I'm sometimes condescending. I have no problem with that.

You folks don't get it about hate crime. It's ignorance.

It's not just ONE victim, it's the entire minority community who are affected by hate crime.

 

[Divine Wind]

You folks don't get it about hate crime. It's ignorance.

It's not just ONE victim, it's the entire minority community who are affected by hate crime.

A murder victim's family is less likely to be consoled that their loved one was killed for non-racial or other "non-hatred" reasons.

Murder is murder.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Hate crimes are committed by people who think what they're doing isn't wrong. A parallel crime would also be punishable, the hate-motivated criminal just doesn't see that as a crime and thinks that she or he will get away with it, or,worse, is doing just what society wants. These people think they found a loophole in the criminal code.

Victims of hate crimes often don't report them because they don't think that law enforcement will care. The majority of hate crime perpetrators are never caught becaue the victims remain anonymous out of fear of retaliation.

24 people every day are victimized by hate crimes. (FBI stats) It's probably four times that number because people don't report it. The "hate crimes should be punished the same as parallel crimes" argument doesn't hold water because these perpetrators don't even get prosecuted without hate crimes enhancements. This law sends a strong message about our society's values that will help prosecute criminals.

Punishments need to be proportionate to the damage caused by the perpetrator in order to be just. When it takes someone more than twice as long to recover from the crime, prosecutors and judges need tools like this legislation to make sentencing reflect that.

Hate crimes law recognizes that hate crimes are attacks on entire communities and not just one person. When someone commits such a crime, as when five marines throw nerve gas into a gay bar, they aren't out to get one specific person. They want to hurt as many people as possible of a certain identity, and they use a hate crime as an act of terrorism against a whole group of people. If that's not terrorism, then I don't know what is.

Any crime against a group of people deserves tougher sentencing than if it were against one person. If someone beat up a group of people instead of just one, s/he would get a tougher sentence. Since threatening people with violence is a crime, a hate crime against one gay person is a crime, to a lesser extent but greater cumulative extent, against all gay people. Such crimes should be punished based on the extent of the damage.

 

[Sky Dancer]

You folks don't get it about hate crime. It's ignorance.

It's not just ONE victim, it's the entire minority community who are affected by hate crime.

A murder victim's family is less likely to be consoled that their loved one was killed for non-racial or other "non-hatred" reasons.

Murder is murder.

No, it's not. Hate crime is intended to send a message to the entire minority community not just the victim. It is a form of terrorism. The goal is to frightened the entire group, and give the message that "your kind" are not welcome.

The punishment needs to meet the crime. Burning down a black church for racist reasons is not a simple arson.

Intent, motive and state of mind have always been crucial to punishment, hence the difference between premeditated murder and manslaughter. Killing or hurting someone because of race, gender or sexual orientation is worse than mere killing or hurting, and should incur a more severe punishment because it is meant not only to harm the victim but to terrorize an entire community.

What worse is that some people actually think minorities deserve to be on the receiving end of hate crimes.

 

[Sunni Man]

hate crime stuff is just to make race card players feel good....

everyone is all about hate crimes..when it is whites on black....but not black on white....

look at the statistical use of the hate crime legislation and see what it says

when the black killers of newsome/christian were not charged with a hate crime....one must stop and realize its all sound and fury

Only white people commit hate crimes.

All other races and ethnicities need not apply for the job.

 

[Sky Dancer]

The topic of hate crime law totally smokes out hidden bias. Without hate crime law, people won't report the crime.

 

[Sunni Man]

The topic of hate crime law totally smokes out hidden bias.

There is nothing hidden about it.

All hate crime legislation is based on blatant racial and ethnic bias.

And without a doubt directed almost exclusively towards white people.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Interesting, but not surprising, that I am the SOLE supporter of hate crime legislation on this messageboard.

It demonstrates how RIGHT leaning this forum is.

Do ANY of you know ANYONE who has been the victim of hate crime? I know many.

Hate crime laws are an outgrowth of the civil rights movement and a response to the appalling violence suffered by African-Americans, largely in the South.

 

[Againsheila]

The topic came up on another thread. Some people are opposed to there being a special category for bias motivated crimes.

I support hate crime legislation. What are your views?

My view is this:

If you and I go shopping and some idiot shoots us 'cause you're gay, I don't think he should do more time for your murder than mine. I don't think my life is worth less than yours.

On the other hand, if he shoots us 'cause I'm a middle-aged white woman, I don't think your life is worth less than mine either...

 

[Sky Dancer]

The topic came up on another thread. Some people are opposed to there being a special category for bias motivated crimes.

I support hate crime legislation. What are your views?

My view is this:

If you and I go shopping and some idiot shoots us 'cause you're gay, I don't think he should do more time for your murder than mine. I don't think my life is worth less than yours.

On the other hand, if he shoots us 'cause I'm a middle-aged white woman, I don't think your life is worth less than mine either...

You don't get it. Our lives are equally important. If you're being shot for being white, then you are the victim of a hate crime. If the intent was to share all the white women in the neighborhood, that's an example of why the punishment should be more severe. All white women have now been terrorized.

 

[Immanuel]

I am truly amazed at the overwhelmingly NEGATIVE response to this thread about hate crime law.

My friends are stunned by the ignorance.

Perhaps, none of you have lived in communites where hate crimes have been committed. We have.

Do you understand by any chance how arrogant that post is or how beneath you it is?

Immie

 

[Sky Dancer]

I am truly amazed at the overwhelmingly NEGATIVE response to this thread about hate crime law.

My friends are stunned by the ignorance.

Perhaps, none of you have lived in communites where hate crimes have been committed. We have.

Do you understand by any chance how arrogant that post is or how beneath you it is?

Immie

I'm telling you the truth. My friends are appalled that people here actually fight hate crime law.

They call it ignorance, and I agree. What you are ignoring is the effect the crime has on the entire minority community.

Do you know ANY victims of hate crime?

Yes, I'm arrogant. I'm arrogant enough to think I don't deserve to be singled out for a hate crime because I am married to a woman. I'm arrogant enough to want the gay community to not live in fear of being hate crime victims. 65% of us fear being victims of hate crime.

Perhaps you folks think I should "know my place".

 

[Immanuel]

The topic of hate crime law totally smokes out hidden bias. Without hate crime law, people won't report the crime.

WTH?

You think I am going to stand there and watch someone get beat half to death and not going to at the very least call the cops because there are no hate crimes laws in effect? I realize I am only working on an hours worth of sleep but makes zero sense.