Guns are not the problem in Chicago..the judges and prosecutors are...

[2aguy]

The unarmed civilians didn't have guns.......they were the ones murdered and put in mass graves...dittos the Germans ......

Actually, gun ownership in Nazi Germany was pretty common. IN fact, the Nazis weakened the Weimar gun laws.

Gun control came to Germany when the Allies defeated them and confiscated all the weapons.

Germany, by the way, has one of the more liberal gun laws in the world. They just don't have an NRA shoving tons of ordnance into the hands of crazy people.

No shit head....gun ownership for national socialist party members was common......the national socialists used the gun registration records from the 1920s to disarm Jews and their political enemies while allowing their thugs to carry guns when they attacked unarmed Germans who stuck their head up.....

 

[danielpalos]

We have a Second Amendment.

Why is there no public policy that directly supports our Second Amendment via State legislation?

In other words, there should well regulated militia, not wars on crime, drugs, or terror.

 

[JoeB131]

Moron....Japan....you have very few, if any rights, once you are taken into custody....

Again...

They lock up 67,000 people.

We lock up 2 million.

Tell me again about "rights"? Oh, I know, suspects in the US get barely competent public defenders with 40 cases and an incentive to plead their clients into guilty pleas.

 

[JoeB131]

No shit head....gun ownership for national socialist party members was common......the national socialists used the gun registration records from the 1920s to disarm Jews and their political enemies while allowing their thugs to carry guns when they attacked unarmed Germans who stuck their head up.....

There were only 500,000 Jews in Germany before the Nazis took power, and 75% of them survived the war just fine.

Well,not just fine. They either had to flee for their lives or survive a concentration camp.

But average German citizens had plenty of guns.

The thing was, the Good Germans never showed up. Because they never do. Germans took those guns and they fought for Hitler to the last old man and 12 year old boy in the "Volksgrenadiers". (The last ditch effort by Germany to stave off the allied advances.)

 

[2aguy]

Moron....Japan....you have very few, if any rights, once you are taken into custody....

Again...

They lock up 67,000 people.

We lock up 2 million.

Tell me again about "rights"? Oh, I know, suspects in the US get barely competent public defenders with 40 cases and an incentive to plead their clients into guilty pleas.

Then bring the Japanese people here and send our people there....it is culture, not gun control laws that keep their gun crime or any of their crime, low........you could give guns to every Japanese citizen and their crime rate would stay the same....

 

[JoeB131]

Then bring the Japanese people here and send our people there....it is culture, not gun control laws that keep their gun crime or any of their crime, low........you could give guns to every Japanese citizen and their crime rate would stay the same....

You tell yourself that.. but every other country that has gun control has low murder rates.

Every
Last
One

I mean, you can make your sad NRA excuses, but the fact is, putting guns in millions of households mean you are going to have thousands of tragedies... It's just basic math, bud.

 

[2aguy]

No shit head....gun ownership for national socialist party members was common......the national socialists used the gun registration records from the 1920s to disarm Jews and their political enemies while allowing their thugs to carry guns when they attacked unarmed Germans who stuck their head up.....

There were only 500,000 Jews in Germany before the Nazis took power, and 75% of them survived the war just fine.

Well,not just fine. They either had to flee for their lives or survive a concentration camp.

But average German citizens had plenty of guns.

The thing was, the Good Germans never showed up. Because they never do. Germans took those guns and they fought for Hitler to the last old man and 12 year old boy in the "Volksgrenadiers". (The last ditch effort by Germany to stave off the allied advances.)

Moron.......they disarmed their political opposition to gain control......when your neighbor gets beaten, and his business is burned down and the only people with guns are the ones doing it.....you don't stand up for your political freedoms, especially if the police are looking the other way and supporting the thugs....

Had the rest of Europe not disarmed their people there would have been no way Germany could have controlled all the area they conquered....once they defeated the weak militaries of the rest of Europe, they had complete control.....

The Swiss....435,000 rifle armed civilians ..... the Germans didn't invade and they didn't experience the Holocaust.

 

[2aguy]

Then bring the Japanese people here and send our people there....it is culture, not gun control laws that keep their gun crime or any of their crime, low........you could give guns to every Japanese citizen and their crime rate would stay the same....

You tell yourself that.. but every other country that has gun control has low murder rates.

Every
Last
One

I mean, you can make your sad NRA excuses, but the fact is, putting guns in millions of households mean you are going to have thousands of tragedies... It's just basic math, bud.

No....the other countries have low murder rates and that has nothing to do with their gun control laws....Britain has the same gun murder rate now that they had before the ban....nothing changed after they banned guns...and now their gun crime rate went up 42% in London and is up all over their country because immigrant gangs want guns to enforce their criminal activity......so laws on law abiding gun owners had no effect on their gun crime rate..

The U.S......we did the opposite....we have more guns now than 21 years ago..what happened?

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 15.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

 

[Preacher]

If the bullet hasn't left the barrel, if the knife hasn't cut flesh, if my actions have not infringed on the rights of another, there is no crime, only leftist bastards who think they know the future and of course, what's best for everyone else.

Screw your prognostication. To hell with your meddling in the lives of others.

33,000 gun deaths and 70,000 gun injuries a year. $270,000,000,000 in economic losses due to gun violence. I think your fetish has too high a price tag for the rest of us.

Then move to England or Japan snowflake. NO ONE is keeping you here.

 

[JoeB131]

Moron.......they disarmed their political opposition to gain control...

no, they gained control because the industrialists and military gave them control, and a lot of mainstream citizens went along with it. Obviously, you know very little about the history of 1930's Germany.

Not to worry, we are doing a sad recreation in this country. It starts when "people who should know better' go along with it.


Paul Ryan, meet Franz von Papen.

 

[JoeB131]

The U.S......we did the opposite....we have more guns now than 21 years ago..what happened?

We have 33,000 gun deaths and 72,000 gun injuries every year. That what happens...

It's actually horrifying to those of us who aren't sociopaths.

 

[gipper]

As usual, you are wrong.

Throughout all of human history, there are hundreds if not thousands of examples of the weaker force prevailing.

No, there really aren't.

The best two you gave were kind of weak.

And that weaker force will not win by overpowering that stronger force but rather by making it too costly to continue just like the Afghans did with the Soviet Union and will do with us

Okay, dummy, here's the thing.

It's not too costly to continue in Afghanistan. It's just pointless.

We're 16 years into this thing, and we are no closer to having a stable government there than we were in 2001.

So it's not that the Afghans are beating us with their guns... if we wanted to, we could glass the place and be done with it.

What we can't do is get them to embrace western style democracy. It's an alien concept to them. But my guess is, Trump will continue the war in Afghanistan for no other reason that he doesn't want it said he lost Afghanistan.

Why must you continue to prove you know nothing of history?

 

[gipper]

Yes.....the socialists love that solution....mass graves were filled by people who believed what you believe....

Uh, guy mass graves were filled because too many fucking people had guns....

Who did you think was pulling those triggers?

Guys with anger issues... just like you.

No.....criminals will still have the guns...just like in Britain, Australia, and Europe....and even Japan, where the Yakuza still gets guns when they want or need them...

Japan has 11 Gun homicides a year compared to our 11,000. I'd take that any day of the week.

Proving again you don't know shit. Stop now!!! I am laughing too much. I have a belly ache.

 

[SavannahMann]

There are a number of issues here, and you are focusing on one, while ignoring many others. That's the real problem with taking these types of incidents and trying to writ them large and draw a conclusion that you believe will fix the entire mess.

First, a lot of times the prosecutor drops the charges because the Police made procedural errors that would mean that the accused baddie would walk ten seconds after the court case got started. It isn't political any more than anything else. It is a result of laziness and attitude of the police most of the time. They just don't want to be bothered doing it right. We are talking about the Chicago PD that had a secret jail where people were detained, questioned, coerced into confessing, denied legal representation, and then lied about it.

if you are going to win at Baseball, you have to follow the rules. If you are going to win at Football, again, you have to follow the rules. Following the rules is the key to victory in every sport. When you break the rules, you are penalized, the more serious the violation, the more serious the penalty. In Automobile racing, if you car does not meet the standards of the rules, your victory will be taken from you and awarded to another. You can get a horse to run faster by using various medications, and then have your horse disqualified because of it. You can run like the wind, and lose the race because of performance enhancing drugs.

Our court system is set up like the aforementioned sports officials. Judged, referee's, and experts scrutinize the play to make sure that no one is cheating. The Prosecutor presents the case, and will argue it if you follow the rules before they get involved. If you broke the rules, then who is going to stand up and argue that it's not fair you have the victory stolen from you just because you cheated a little bit?

Next is plea bargains. These allow people to plead guilty to a lesser crime and have the larger crimes dropped as part of a deal. There are a lot of folks who say that these are good because they free up valuable court time, and take a probable winner and turn it into a definite win. There is no telling how the Jury will react to the case. How many times have we all seen a pretty obvious open and shut case tossed out by the Jury? You can mention OJ Simpson, and there are a lot of other examples.

Plea Bargains give the Prosecutor a victory, and the Defense wins because the accused is not facing fifty years. Nobody wins it all, each win a little bit.

Yet Plea Bargains are often used in what seem to be egregious violations of law, where multiple felonies are wiped out by a minor misdemeanor. The accused pays a minuscule fine, does a few days in jail, or a few weeks of community service, and the case is done.

Finally we move to jail sentences. Jails in large cities are normally overcrowded. Remember Lindsey Lohan? She was sent to Jail, and a few days later was out with time served because of overcrowding.

Depending on the crime that is finally agreed to in the plea bargain, chances are the accused will have time served long before the case actually gets to be agreed to.

Each step in the process has to be done right. It can't be short circuited, or skipped. You can half ass it as a cop, or a prosecutor, but then the defendant goes free because of your errors.

Chicago has one of the worst reputations for the Police Department. The place where criminal cases actually start. Many of their cops have been caught lying on reports, or under oath. Many have been caught breaking those rules, and when they are, and aren't fired, or prosecuted themselves, that makes every case that comes after fodder for the defense.

Let's say that Officer John Smith is a cop, he was caught lying about the probable cause for a search before. Now, he's a witness for the prosecution. The Defense calls the Prosecutor and says I'm going to really go after John Smith, so if you don't have a lot of video that John did it the right way this time, I'm going to fight to get the evidence suprprssed and if I fail I'm going to tear him a new ass on the stand during the trial.

The Prosecutor doesn't want to lose either, they don't want to get embarrassed before the Judge, and they look at the evidence. There is little or no video evidence to support the statements of John Smith, who was caught lying on the stand previously. What do you do then? Do you go forward and let the defense attorney rip John Smith a new ass on the stand? Do you hang your entire case on John Smith's word? What can you say to the Jury? I know he's lied before, but he's telling the truth this time.

Now, you may feel that this isn't fair. The idea that the prosecution has to work so hard to put a criminal away may be outrageous to you. But our system was set up this way. Criminal cases are held to a higher standard, the idea that the person is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. The prosecution has to follow the rules. The cops have to follow the rules. If they skip a step, or lie about it, or if they have a history of doing either, then that reasonable doubt gets easier to have. If the skipped steps or halfassed efforts are too big, or numerous, then the Judge will just throw the case out, which is what he is supposed to do.

It isn't that the Prosecutor is a Democrat, or the town or city is a democrat. This happens all over the nation, all the damned time. Republicans as well as Democrats do the same thing. Chicago is infamous and perhaps worse about it, but it starts with the cops. A mistake by the cop early on will screw up everything that follows after.

I honestly believe the old quote. It is better for a hundred guilty men to go free than one innocent man be convicted. I believe that is a good standard, because incarcerating an innocent man is a heinous crime, one that can never be undone.

 

[2aguy]

Guns aren't the problem in Baltimore either......the fact that this guy was let off the hook by the criminal justice system is the problem....a convicted crimina...armed robbery.....and he was out loose able to get illegal guns and to shoot at police...

Police say gunman killed in Dundalk shootout was prohibited from having firearms

 

[Skull Pilot]

Believe you me I don't worry about you one whit.

and I thought you said I was selfish and only worried about myself?

Which is it?

I'm not sure... your obsession seems a bit weird to me, but I have a whole bunch of stalkers here and you are just going to have to wait your turn.

Yeah you have stalkers

and you call me a narcissist

 

[Skull Pilot]

As usual, you are wrong.

Throughout all of human history, there are hundreds if not thousands of examples of the weaker force prevailing.

No, there really aren't.

The best two you gave were kind of weak.

And that weaker force will not win by overpowering that stronger force but rather by making it too costly to continue just like the Afghans did with the Soviet Union and will do with us

Okay, dummy, here's the thing.

It's not too costly to continue in Afghanistan. It's just pointless.

We're 16 years into this thing, and we are no closer to having a stable government there than we were in 2001.

So it's not that the Afghans are beating us with their guns... if we wanted to, we could glass the place and be done with it.

What we can't do is get them to embrace western style democracy. It's an alien concept to them. But my guess is, Trump will continue the war in Afghanistan for no other reason that he doesn't want it said he lost Afghanistan.

And sooner or later we will realize it's not worth our blood and treasure just like the Soviets did

 

[JoeB131]

And sooner or later we will realize it's not worth our blood and treasure just like the Soviets did

But that's not being defeated because guns are wonderful. That's "leaving because you are tired of killing people with nothing to show for it."

This is the point I'm trying to get across to you gun nuts who think you done needs you some guns to fights the gummit! The government will always have bigger, better guns and they will kill a lot more of you before they finally get tired of it, if they ever do.

 

[2aguy]

The U.S......we did the opposite....we have more guns now than 21 years ago..what happened?

We have 33,000 gun deaths and 72,000 gun injuries every year. That what happens...

It's actually horrifying to those of us who aren't sociopaths.

And here is the truth, again...

Gun suicide..

Leading Causes of Death | WISQARS | Injury Center | CDC

2015
Gun suicide...

22,018

Non Gun suicide...

22,078
========================

Gun Accidental death.....
2015

489

==================

Gun murder ( 70-80% of the victims of gun murder are actual criminals, not law abiding people)

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8


2015--

9,616

=======================

Suicide
So you lie....you hide what the numbers actually are...and you lie about suicide as the highest number of gun deaths...even though Japan, Korea, China, all have absolute gun control for law abiding citizens...only criminals and cops can have guns.......and they have higher suicide rates than we do....and our non-gun suicide rate has been higher than our gun suicide rate for 2 years in a row.....

Gun Accidental Death...

Gun accidents....in a country with over 320,000,000 people...... with 400,000,000 guns in private hands, and over 15,700,000 people carrying guns for self defense..... 489 accidental gun deaths....

Gun murder
Of the 9,616 gun murders in this country, 70-80% of the victims are criminals, engaged in criminal activity or part of the criminal life style....and of the remaining victims....many of them are friends and family of the criminal...caught up in the criminal's lifestyle.....

Non-fatal gun accidents....
WISQARS Nonfatal Injury Reports

CDC non fatal gun accident.....

2001.... 17,696

2002... 17,579

2003... 18,941

2004... 16,555

2005... 15,388

2006... 14,678

2007... 15,698

2008... 17,215

2009... 18,610

2010... 14,161

2011... 14,675

2012... 17,362

2013... 16,864

2014..... 15,928

2015... 17,311

 

[2aguy]

And sooner or later we will realize it's not worth our blood and treasure just like the Soviets did

But that's not being defeated because guns are wonderful. That's "leaving because you are tired of killing people with nothing to show for it."

This is the point I'm trying to get across to you gun nuts who think you done needs you some guns to fights the gummit! The government will always have bigger, better guns and they will kill a lot more of you before they finally get tired of it, if they ever do.

Then you can walk quietly to your death...others choose not to....