Guns allow for a democratic society.......

[2aguy]

I see. Then Somalia is the greatest democratic society of on earth. And Afghanistan comes in a close second. LOL

I've been to Somilia... they have lots of guns. All exclusively held by warlords and their minions.

That is how they were able to starve millions of their own people despite an international effort to bring them food.

That fits the point of the thread......a small group with weapons can control a large group that is unarmed....

and a bunch of wankers clutching small arms will defeat the military?

Yeah...tell that to Vietnam.....Afghanistan, Iraq....or any number of places that drove out invaders who were better armed, but less motivated to stay........rifles and pistols are the beginning.......if Europe hadn't disarmed their people after World War 1, hitler couldn't have conquered it .......

they are not the united states cletus

Yeah...exactly, they were backward countries with rifles and improvised explosives....and later they got help...but they fought with rifles and pistols first.....and with 400 million rifles, and 90 million homes with guns.....and military families........and technology......please.....that lie you keep telling yourself isn't helping your side...

 

[Luddly Neddite]

That does not mean that every jerk in the country need to carry loaded guns everywhere they go.

1300 children are killed by guns in this country every year because stupid, ignorant asshole gun owners can't seem to handle them properly.

Heck, some of them post videos of 8 year olds shooting guns.

The truth is that children's brains can not calculate risk very well & should not handle guns until much older.

Hey....that number has been exposed over and over in multiple threads.....14,15,16,17 year old, stone cold killers shooting each other are not the same as normal children having accidents with guns....the real number of kids 14 and under dying from actual, accidental gun deaths in 2015.....48.

Here are the actual numbers for 2015....for both gun murder.....and non gun murder of children...and accidental gun deaths...notice the difference in numbers?

https://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/leading_causes_death.html
Kids murdered by guns....

under 1: 12
age 1-4: 39

age 5-14: 142

total gun murder of children.....193



Kids murdered by other means...

under 1: 270
age 1-4: 298
age 5-14: 135



murder of children by other means.....703
Now, if even if you include gun accidents into the total.....

you are still wrong....

Accidental death by gun for children....

under 1: 3
age 1-4: 27
age 5-14: 39

Total accidental gun death for kids 2013....69
Total accidental gun death for kids in 2014...50
2015...48
2014...50
2013...69
2012...58
2011...74
2010...62
2009...48
2008...62
2007...65
2006...54
2005...75
2004...63
2003...56
2002...60
2001...72
2000...86
1999...88

Oh brother.

Right on cue.

So, EXACTLY how many dead kids would get you to care enough to pretend to care?

Or should their deaths be measured by how tall the pile of dead bodies I'd?




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The anti-gunners like you...you prevent gun safety education in schools.....the same kind of education that saves children from fires...you guys prevent it...so don't tell us you care about dead kids.

Democrats, and anti-gunners in California are lowering the prison time for violent gun offenders...you know, the ones shooting these children in democrat controlled neighborhoods...letting out repeat, violent gun criminals even as Republicans and the NRA are fighting to keep them in prison...and trying to keep them from killing other innocent people...

The only ones trying to save lives here are 2nd Amendment supporters....you guys keep putting killers back on the streets....

At what age should we teach kids about guns? 4? 8?
I love the way you people blame Democrats for poor people living in the cities. I guess helping them feed their kids, heat their homes provide health care tuned them in to thugs.

The fucking NRA is fighting to keep guns on the street. Every time someone tries to limit access to gins you & your fucktard NRA assholes have a freaking fit.

You are the ones who p[t an assault rifle in the hands at Newtown. You are the ass holes that allow guns to be purchased at gun shows.

You are the ones that think there is nothing ofd that a person in AZ can buy 40 AK47's at a time.

It the YOU & the NRA with the blood of our children on your hands.

The NRA Saves lives? When? I get it, you toters think you save lives. You kill & injure more than you "save".

It scares the shit out of me that there are so many untrained, dumbass concealed weapon carriers out there.

I learned very young but the key word is "should". It used to be that one could choose whether they wanted to own guns but the right is changing that. I don't want to carry a gun but read the nutters, the rabid right. These people want basic rights taken away from Americans but if they can't get their way legally, they'll carry a gun, hidden, and if you believe their words here, they want nothing quite so much as to shoot a "libtard". They are effectively taking that choice from rational, sane people.

I used to be a member of the NRA and they used to do good work in education. But, make no mistake, they're even worse than JUST the main lobbyist for gun makers. They are very much neo-nazi type fascist gun pushers. If you want a really chilling picture of what they teach kids, go to one of their programs.

The lack of training scares me too. My state is one where training is not required and nutters can legally hide a gun on their person - except if you're black.

The gun nuts are absolutely owned by the gun makers. They are told to buy more and more because libs are ominous to take them away.

Pretty stupid to fall for that since there has been NO "gun grabbing" effort. 2aguy will say Obama is the best gun seller of all time. He says that because he still doesn't know that President Obama loosened gun laws. Or, he does know it but he's told to say it, so he does.


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com

 

[Luddly Neddite]

I see. Then Somalia is the greatest democratic society of on earth. And Afghanistan comes in a close second. LOL

I've been to Somilia... they have lots of guns. All exclusively held by warlords and their minions.

That is how they were able to starve millions of their own people despite an international effort to bring them food.

That fits the point of the thread......a small group with weapons can control a large group that is unarmed....

and a bunch of wankers clutching small arms will defeat the military?

The military will side with those seeking to support and defend the Constitution of the United States of American against all enemies, foreign or domestic.

Actually, they swear to follow the orders of the president and, nowadays, none of us are safe from him.

As he becomes more delusional and power hungry, trump will most certainly also become more dangerous. As loony as he is now with his yelling at his TV and the insane tweeting, there is no doubt he will become a lot more unstable.


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com

 

[2aguy]

I see. Then Somalia is the greatest democratic society of on earth. And Afghanistan comes in a close second. LOL

I've been to Somilia... they have lots of guns. All exclusively held by warlords and their minions.

That is how they were able to starve millions of their own people despite an international effort to bring them food.

That fits the point of the thread......a small group with weapons can control a large group that is unarmed....

and a bunch of wankers clutching small arms will defeat the military?

The military will side with those seeking to support and defend the Constitution of the United States of American against all enemies, foreign or domestic.

Actually, they swear to follow the orders of the president and, nowadays, none of us are safe from him.

As he becomes more delusional and power hungry, trump will most certainly also become more dangerous. As loony as he is now with his yelling at his TV and the insane tweeting, there is no doubt he will become a lot more unstable.


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com

And yet...unlike obama, he is actually following legal processes even when the courts are the ones violating the Constitution......still waiting for him to take complete power.....waiting.....waiting......

 

[2aguy]

That does not mean that every jerk in the country need to carry loaded guns everywhere they go.

1300 children are killed by guns in this country every year because stupid, ignorant asshole gun owners can't seem to handle them properly.

Heck, some of them post videos of 8 year olds shooting guns.

The truth is that children's brains can not calculate risk very well & should not handle guns until much older.

Hey....that number has been exposed over and over in multiple threads.....14,15,16,17 year old, stone cold killers shooting each other are not the same as normal children having accidents with guns....the real number of kids 14 and under dying from actual, accidental gun deaths in 2015.....48.

Here are the actual numbers for 2015....for both gun murder.....and non gun murder of children...and accidental gun deaths...notice the difference in numbers?

https://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/leading_causes_death.html
Kids murdered by guns....

under 1: 12
age 1-4: 39

age 5-14: 142

total gun murder of children.....193



Kids murdered by other means...

under 1: 270
age 1-4: 298
age 5-14: 135



murder of children by other means.....703
Now, if even if you include gun accidents into the total.....

you are still wrong....

Accidental death by gun for children....

under 1: 3
age 1-4: 27
age 5-14: 39

Total accidental gun death for kids 2013....69
Total accidental gun death for kids in 2014...50
2015...48
2014...50
2013...69
2012...58
2011...74
2010...62
2009...48
2008...62
2007...65
2006...54
2005...75
2004...63
2003...56
2002...60
2001...72
2000...86
1999...88

Oh brother.

Right on cue.

So, EXACTLY how many dead kids would get you to care enough to pretend to care?

Or should their deaths be measured by how tall the pile of dead bodies I'd?




Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com

The anti-gunners like you...you prevent gun safety education in schools.....the same kind of education that saves children from fires...you guys prevent it...so don't tell us you care about dead kids.

Democrats, and anti-gunners in California are lowering the prison time for violent gun offenders...you know, the ones shooting these children in democrat controlled neighborhoods...letting out repeat, violent gun criminals even as Republicans and the NRA are fighting to keep them in prison...and trying to keep them from killing other innocent people...

The only ones trying to save lives here are 2nd Amendment supporters....you guys keep putting killers back on the streets....

At what age should we teach kids about guns? 4? 8?
I love the way you people blame Democrats for poor people living in the cities. I guess helping them feed their kids, heat their homes provide health care tuned them in to thugs.

The fucking NRA is fighting to keep guns on the street. Every time someone tries to limit access to gins you & your fucktard NRA assholes have a freaking fit.

You are the ones who p[t an assault rifle in the hands at Newtown. You are the ass holes that allow guns to be purchased at gun shows.

You are the ones that think there is nothing ofd that a person in AZ can buy 40 AK47's at a time.

It the YOU & the NRA with the blood of our children on your hands.

The NRA Saves lives? When? I get it, you toters think you save lives. You kill & injure more than you "save".

It scares the shit out of me that there are so many untrained, dumbass concealed weapon carriers out there.

I learned very young but the key word is "should". It used to be that one could choose whether they wanted to own guns but the right is changing that. I don't want to carry a gun but read the nutters, the rabid right. These people want basic rights taken away from Americans but if they can't get their way legally, they'll carry a gun, hidden, and if you believe their words here, they want nothing quite so much as to shoot a "libtard". They are effectively taking that choice from rational, sane people.

I used to be a member of the NRA and they used to do good work in education. But, make no mistake, they're even worse than JUST the main lobbyist for gun makers. They are very much neo-nazi type fascist gun pushers. If you want a really chilling picture of what they teach kids, go to one of their programs.

The lack of training scares me too. My state is one where training is not required and nutters can legally hide a gun on their person - except if you're black.

The gun nuts are absolutely owned by the gun makers. They are told to buy more and more because libs are ominous to take them away.

Pretty stupid to fall for that since there has been NO "gun grabbing" effort. 2aguy will say Obama is the best gun seller of all time. He says that because he still doesn't know that President Obama loosened gun laws. Or, he does know it but he's told to say it, so he does.


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com

And yet nothing you feel about guns is remotely accurate.....we have more people than ever carrying guns...and our gun injury and death rates are going down, not up...from the CDC no less.....so you are wrong on that....

We have more people owning and actually carrying guns, over 15.7 million law abiding people carrying guns for self defense...and every category of violent crime has gone down, not up....

The NRA, 2nd Amendment Foundation and Gun Owners of America are the only reason we still have the right to own guns.....had hilary won, those rights would be gone.....as she would have appointed a tie breaking, left wing, anti-gun justice who would have voted to uphold the 4th Circuit Court of appeals ruling on the 2nd Amendment..which guts the amendment.....and that isn't even the only thing she planned...she was going to use the courts to sue the gun makers into submission.....

Without those 2nd Amendment groups, guns would be gone and we would be Mexico.....we would have ink in the Constitution that said we have a right to guns...but we would not be allowed to actually own them....

The fact is the anti-gunners are now using the courts to go after guns..obama packed the courts with anti-gunners, and we were one justice away from losing the 2nd Amendment......

 

[2aguy]

That does not mean that every jerk in the country need to carry loaded guns everywhere they go.

1300 children are killed by guns in this country every year because stupid, ignorant asshole gun owners can't seem to handle them properly.

Heck, some of them post videos of 8 year olds shooting guns.

The truth is that children's brains can not calculate risk very well & should not handle guns until much older.

Hey....that number has been exposed over and over in multiple threads.....14,15,16,17 year old, stone cold killers shooting each other are not the same as normal children having accidents with guns....the real number of kids 14 and under dying from actual, accidental gun deaths in 2015.....48.

Here are the actual numbers for 2015....for both gun murder.....and non gun murder of children...and accidental gun deaths...notice the difference in numbers?

https://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/leading_causes_death.html
Kids murdered by guns....

under 1: 12
age 1-4: 39

age 5-14: 142

total gun murder of children.....193



Kids murdered by other means...

under 1: 270
age 1-4: 298
age 5-14: 135



murder of children by other means.....703
Now, if even if you include gun accidents into the total.....

you are still wrong....

Accidental death by gun for children....

under 1: 3
age 1-4: 27
age 5-14: 39

Total accidental gun death for kids 2013....69
Total accidental gun death for kids in 2014...50
2015...48
2014...50
2013...69
2012...58
2011...74
2010...62
2009...48
2008...62
2007...65
2006...54
2005...75
2004...63
2003...56
2002...60
2001...72
2000...86
1999...88

Oh brother.

Right on cue.

So, EXACTLY how many dead kids would get you to care enough to pretend to care?

Or should their deaths be measured by how tall the pile of dead bodies I'd?




Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com

The anti-gunners like you...you prevent gun safety education in schools.....the same kind of education that saves children from fires...you guys prevent it...so don't tell us you care about dead kids.

Democrats, and anti-gunners in California are lowering the prison time for violent gun offenders...you know, the ones shooting these children in democrat controlled neighborhoods...letting out repeat, violent gun criminals even as Republicans and the NRA are fighting to keep them in prison...and trying to keep them from killing other innocent people...

The only ones trying to save lives here are 2nd Amendment supporters....you guys keep putting killers back on the streets....

At what age should we teach kids about guns? 4? 8?
I love the way you people blame Democrats for poor people living in the cities. I guess helping them feed their kids, heat their homes provide health care tuned them in to thugs.

The fucking NRA is fighting to keep guns on the street. Every time someone tries to limit access to gins you & your fucktard NRA assholes have a freaking fit.

You are the ones who p[t an assault rifle in the hands at Newtown. You are the ass holes that allow guns to be purchased at gun shows.

You are the ones that think there is nothing ofd that a person in AZ can buy 40 AK47's at a time.

It the YOU & the NRA with the blood of our children on your hands.

The NRA Saves lives? When? I get it, you toters think you save lives. You kill & injure more than you "save".

It scares the shit out of me that there are so many untrained, dumbass concealed weapon carriers out there.

I learned very young but the key word is "should". It used to be that one could choose whether they wanted to own guns but the right is changing that. I don't want to carry a gun but read the nutters, the rabid right. These people want basic rights taken away from Americans but if they can't get their way legally, they'll carry a gun, hidden, and if you believe their words here, they want nothing quite so much as to shoot a "libtard". They are effectively taking that choice from rational, sane people.

I used to be a member of the NRA and they used to do good work in education. But, make no mistake, they're even worse than JUST the main lobbyist for gun makers. They are very much neo-nazi type fascist gun pushers. If you want a really chilling picture of what they teach kids, go to one of their programs.

The lack of training scares me too. My state is one where training is not required and nutters can legally hide a gun on their person - except if you're black.

The gun nuts are absolutely owned by the gun makers. They are told to buy more and more because libs are ominous to take them away.

Pretty stupid to fall for that since there has been NO "gun grabbing" effort. 2aguy will say Obama is the best gun seller of all time. He says that because he still doesn't know that President Obama loosened gun laws. Or, he does know it but he's told to say it, so he does.


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com

Pretty stupid to fall for that since there has been NO "gun grabbing" effort. 2aguy will say Obama is the best gun seller of all time. He says that because he still doesn't know that President Obama loosened gun laws. Or, he does know it but he's told to say it, so he does.

I don't say that.......I know what obama did and the 4th Circuit...filled with clinton and obama appointees, just gutted the 2nd Amendment...and if they aren't overturned, the Right goes away....one state at a time....so you are wrong even on this point.....

this is what obama did and 2nd Amendment supporters need to act against it.......they need to get their reps and senators on this before we lose the Right...

The Conspiracy To Dismember Heller

The problem with this standard is self-evident, for there is no weapon on Earth that could be placed outside of this description. Longswords are “most useful” within a military context, as are handguns, shotguns, crossbows and lever-actions. Your grandfather’s hunting rifle would have been handy at Normandy, just as his father’s trusty pocketknife would have been crucial in the Ardennes.

When the Second Amendment was passed, most Americans had just one firearm in their possession—generally, a musket or smoothbore rifle—and it doubled as their personal and their muster weapon. By the 4th Circuit’s terms, the government could have taken these weapons away on the grounds that they were “most useful in military service”—which, of course, they were.

---------------------------

Also, lacking a limiting principle is the court’s baleful resuscitation of the idea that any gun ban is acceptable providing that it is not exhaustive—a proposition that was considered, and rejected, in Heller. As other courts have observed, such a standard would inevitably lead to a death spiral for the Second Amendment, as governments could pick the least-effective weapon covered under the term “arms”—a dagger, say—and prohibit everything else.

----------------

The consequences of the ruling cannot be overstated. In essence, the 4th Circuit has contrived a brand-new constitutional “test,” the practical effect of which is the removal of Second Amendment protection from any firearm that a judge happens not to like.

In Heller, the Supreme Court took three related positions:

First, that firearms “in common use” may not be banned;

second, that while “dangerous” arms may be regulated, only those that are “unusual” in addition are eligible for prohibition; and

third, that a government may not ban certain types of guns on the understanding that other types remain available.

In a follow-up case, Caetano v. Massachusetts, Justice Samuel Alito stated in his concurrence that “the relative dangerousness of a weapon is irrelevant when the weapon belongs to a class of arms commonly used for lawful purposes.”


Disgracefully, the 4th Circuit ignored all these prescriptions—which it was duty-bound to follow—electing instead to devise its own rule: that if a weapon is “most useful in military service,” it enjoys no constitutional protection.

In so doing, the court thumbed its nose at its superiors and quietly rewrote the law for millions of Americans.

 

[fncceo]

and a bunch of wankers clutching small arms will defeat the military?

 

[2aguy]

A bunch of backward barbarians defeated obama........facing an enemy armed with rifles and improvised explosives, he pulled our troops out........because he didn't want the fight.......

 

[Divine Wind]

Actually, they swear to follow the orders of the president and, nowadays, none of us are safe from him.

As he becomes more delusional and power hungry, trump will most certainly also become more dangerous. As loony as he is now with his yelling at his TV and the insane tweeting, there is no doubt he will become a lot more unstable.


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Proving to everyone 1) You've never taken that oath and 2) You don't know what the fuck you are talking about. What you are referencing is the enlisted oath, not the officer oath. Both are posted below. Note that in both cases the oath is to the Constitution. Also note that military personnel are required to disobey an unlawful order per the UCMJ, since, as you should know, the old "I was only following orders" doesn't work if it was an unlawful or criminal order. A reference is posted at the bottom of this post.

The oath I took is below. IIRC, I swore to it seven times. While no lawyer or government official has tried to make a case for it, an oath is forever; no expiration date.

The Oath of Office (for officers)
I, ______, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.

The Oath of Enlistment (for enlistees):
"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

Customary IHL - Practice Relating to Rule 154. Obedience to Superior Orders