Gun control working!

[2aguy]

Prove that it is a consequence of gun control

I'm not even going that far with it. I'm just pointing out that all the regulations you could ever ask for are in place yet the situation there is getting worse. The point is gun control doesn't stop criminals from committing crime. It just makes it harder for everyday people to fight back.

Nobody EVER claimed that gun control can make crime disappear. It's the favorite straw man argument employed in this debate. Gun control at best can mitigate SOME of the consequences of SOME crimes. I've yet to see any actual research that shows that owning a gun has ANY effect on the amount of crimes committed. There is however ample evidence of the LACK of gun control having a negative effect on the amount of fatalities by crime. The US has the highest gun ownership per capita in the world yet surprisingly enough it also has the highest incarceration rate of that Western World so your argument falls flat. Estimated number of guns per capita by country - Wikipedia
List of countries by incarceration rate - Wikipedia

We have the highest incarceration rates in the world because of the war on drugs and systemic racism, not because a bunch of people own guns.

So you acknowledge that using the fact that people commit crimes isn't affected by gun control? Good we are getting somewhere. So if you acknowledge that, doesn't limiting guns make sense since it does decrease the amount of fatalities?

Wrong.....Americans use their legal guns for self defense 2.4 million times a year according to the CDC, if you ban those guns from those people, the criminals still get guns...as shown by increasing gun crime across Britain and Europe, but those law abiding victims won't be able to stop those crimes.....

You are simply wrong.

 

[MisterBeale]

You won't change human behavior by banning guns.

We can change human behavior when we put our mind to it. Look at smoking cigarettes. It doesn't happen overnight, but it can happen. Too many people don't care that in this country we are shooting each other at an abysmal rate. I don't understand that for the life of me. Why don't they care?

You're right.

I'm sure all the criminals that were responsible for the increase in that crime were nonsmokers.

 

[ding]

Look no further than London, England, where civilian firearm ownership is de facto banned. Heck, their dear leader had good common sense to ban not only firearms, but sharp, pointy objects as well.

Sorry, you just can't argue the good results, right?

Through March of 2018:

• The murder rate is up 44 percent over the last twelve months
• Violent crime is up 33% over the preceding twelve months
• Home robbery is also up, by a third
• Rape is up 18 percent

Guess those 100lb English ladies are finding the notion of fighting off a 250lb rapist with their fists to be a bit of a sticky wicket???

But hey, but at least there's no gun or knife crime, right?

• Knife crime up 21 percent
• Shootings up 23 percent from the previous year
• More

Hmm...

Well, we all know the only reason London sees this crime is because of all the lax gun laws in nearly Indiana...

Oh, wait. Crap. Never mind.

Hmms, so before last year England didn't have strict gun control? Your stats, which you didn't source btw all speak about an increase this year. How does that help your argument?

They added new laws, try to keep up.

You do realize you are an idiot for making this argument, right?

 

[2aguy]

Prove that it is a consequence of gun control

I'm not even going that far with it. I'm just pointing out that all the regulations you could ever ask for are in place yet the situation there is getting worse. The point is gun control doesn't stop criminals from committing crime. It just makes it harder for everyday people to fight back.

Nobody EVER claimed that gun control can make crime disappear. It's the favorite straw man argument employed in this debate. Gun control at best can mitigate SOME of the consequences of SOME crimes. I've yet to see any actual research that shows that owning a gun has ANY effect on the amount of crimes committed. There is however ample evidence of the LACK of gun control having a negative effect on the amount of fatalities by crime. The US has the highest gun ownership per capita in the world yet surprisingly enough it also has the highest incarceration rate of that Western World so your argument falls flat. Estimated number of guns per capita by country - Wikipedia
List of countries by incarceration rate - Wikipedia

No....what they claim is that more guns = more gun crime...

Britain banned and confiscated guns according to your belief...their gun crime rates keep going up.

The United States has more people who now own and carry guns and our gun crime rates have gone down, not up.

Those examples show that the primary tenet of gun control people like you, that more guns = more gun crime, is wrong, it is not based in actual real world experience......

A comparison.....that shows you are wrong...

Britain...banned guns....

Yorkshire sees highest number of crimes for any county in Britain according to figures

“In particular we’re shocked to see an increase of nearly 30 per cent in weapon possession offences between 2016 and 2017.”

Crimes covered violent and sexual offences, vehicle theft, public order offences, possession of weapons, shoplifting, personal theft, drug crimes, robbery, criminal damage, bicycle thefts and anti-social behaviour.


========

Culture of violence: Gun crime goes up by 89% in a decade | Daily Mail Online

The latest Government figures show that the total number of firearm offences in England and Wales has increased from 5,209 in 1998/99 to 9,865 last year - a rise of 89 per cent.

The number of people injured or killed by guns, excluding air weapons, has increased from 864 in 1998/99 to a provisional figure of 1,760 in 2008/09, an increase of 104 per cent .


========



Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show

Ministers will also be concerned that the country is becoming increasingly violent in nature, with gun crime rising 23% to 6,375 offences, largely driven by an increase in the use of handguns.

=========



Gun crime in London increases by 42% - BBC News

Gun crime offences in London surged by 42% in the last year, according to official statistics.

Top trauma surgeon reveals shocking extent of London’s gun crime

A leading trauma surgeon has told how the number of patients treated for gunshot injuries at a major London hospital has doubled in the last five years.

----

He said the hospital’s major trauma centre had seen a bigger rise in gunshot injuries compared to knife wounds and that the average age of victims was getting younger.

-----

Last year, gun crime offences in London increased for a third year running and by 42 per cent, from 1,793 offences in 2015/16 to 2,544 offences in 2016/17. Police have seized 635 guns off the streets so far this year.

Dr Griffiths, who also teaches medical students, said: “Our numbers of victims of gun injury have doubled [since 2012]. Gunshot injuries represent about 2.5 per cent of our penetrating trauma.

-----

Dr Griffiths said the average age of gun crime victims needing treatment at the hospital had decreased from 25 to the mid to late teens since 2012.

He added that medics at the Barts Health hospital’s major trauma centre in Whitechapel had seen a bigger rise in patients with gun injuries rather than knife wounds and that most were caused by pistols or shotguns.

Met Police commander Jim Stokley, who was also invited to speak at the meeting, said that handguns and shotguns were the weapons of choice and that 46 per cent of London’s gun crime discharges were gang-related.

He said: “We believe that a lot of it is associated with the drugs trade, and by that I mean people dealing drugs at street level and disagreements between different gangs.”

Violent crime on the rise in every corner of the country, figures suggest

But analysis of the figures force by force, showed the full extent of the problem, with only one constabulary, Nottinghamshire, recording a reduction in violent offences.

The vast majority of police forces actually witnessed double digit rises in violent crime, with Northumbria posting a 95 per cent increase year on year.

Of the other forces, Durham Police recorded a 73 per cent rise; West Yorkshire was up 48 per cent; Avon and Somerset 45 per cent; Dorset 39 per cent and Warwickshire 37 per cent.

Elsewhere Humberside, South Yorkshire, Staffordshire, Essex, Hertfordshire, Kent, Wiltshire and Dyfed Powys all saw violence rise by more than a quarter year on year.


The U.S., 600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense.......

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

 

[Confounding]

Prove that it is a consequence of gun control

I'm not even going that far with it. I'm just pointing out that all the regulations you could ever ask for are in place yet the situation there is getting worse. The point is gun control doesn't stop criminals from committing crime. It just makes it harder for everyday people to fight back.

Nobody EVER claimed that gun control can make crime disappear. It's the favorite straw man argument employed in this debate. Gun control at best can mitigate SOME of the consequences of SOME crimes. I've yet to see any actual research that shows that owning a gun has ANY effect on the amount of crimes committed. There is however ample evidence of the LACK of gun control having a negative effect on the amount of fatalities by crime. The US has the highest gun ownership per capita in the world yet surprisingly enough it also has the highest incarceration rate of that Western World so your argument falls flat. Estimated number of guns per capita by country - Wikipedia
List of countries by incarceration rate - Wikipedia

We have the highest incarceration rates in the world because of the war on drugs and systemic racism, not because a bunch of people own guns.

So you acknowledge that using the fact that people commit crimes isn't affected by gun control? Good we are getting somewhere. So if you acknowledge that, doesn't limiting guns make sense since it does decrease the amount of fatalities?

I think if the left had its way with guns the impact on violence would be negligible at best, and it would without a doubt create situations where law abiding people can't defend themselves from armed criminals. I refuse to support a feel good solution that won't do anything meaningful. The left thinks it can regulate and control everything, including criminals, but it can't.

 

[Confounding]

The United States has more people who now own and carry guns and our gun crime rates have gone down, not up.

This is easily the most neglected detail in politics.

 

[Pilot1]

This mass shooting just happened in Australia a few days ago where they have extremely strict gun control.

A 61-year-old farmer is suspected of carrying out Australia's worst mass shooting in 22 years, killing six family members, including four of his grandchildren, before turning the gun on himself last week, an official said Monday.

Grandfather suspected in Australia mass shooting

 

[2aguy]

Prove that it is a consequence of gun control

I'm not even going that far with it. I'm just pointing out that all the regulations you could ever ask for are in place yet the situation there is getting worse. The point is gun control doesn't stop criminals from committing crime. It just makes it harder for everyday people to fight back.

Nobody EVER claimed that gun control can make crime disappear. It's the favorite straw man argument employed in this debate. Gun control at best can mitigate SOME of the consequences of SOME crimes. I've yet to see any actual research that shows that owning a gun has ANY effect on the amount of crimes committed. There is however ample evidence of the LACK of gun control having a negative effect on the amount of fatalities by crime. The US has the highest gun ownership per capita in the world yet surprisingly enough it also has the highest incarceration rate of that Western World so your argument falls flat. Estimated number of guns per capita by country - Wikipedia
List of countries by incarceration rate - Wikipedia

The US has the highest gun ownership per capita in the world yet surprisingly enough it also has the highest incarceration rate of that Western World so your argument falls flat.


wrong again...repeat gun offenders serve less than 3 years in prison......so locking them up but letting them go with light sentences means that you aren't really locking them up.....

Japan stopped their criminal population from using guns by using actual long prison sentences...and all Pro gun people support long prison sentences for actual gun criminals, the democrats keep fighting those prison sentences.....

Japan’s gun control laws so strict the Yakuza turn to toy pistols



Ryo Fujiwara, long-time writer on yakuza affairs and author of the book, The Three Yamaguchi-Gumi, says that the punishment for using a gun in a gang war or in a crime is now so heavy that most yakuza avoid their use at all – unless it is for an assassination.

“In a hit, whoever fires the gun, or is made to take responsibility for firing the gun, has to pretty much be willing to go to jail for the rest of their life. That’s a big decision. The repercussions are big, too. No one wants to claim responsibility for such acts – the gang office might actually get shut-down.”

The gang typically also has to support the family of the hit-man while he is in prison, which is also a financial burden for the organization.

Japan’s Firearms and Swords Control Laws make it a crime to illegally possess a gun, with a punishment of jail time of up to 10 years.

Illegal possession more than one gun, the penalty goes up to 15 years in prison. If you own a gun and matching ammunition, that’s another charge and a heavier penalty. The most severe penalty is for the act of discharging a gun in a train, on a bus, or most public spaces, which can result in a life sentence.

---

A low-ranking member of the Kobe-Yamaguchi-gumi put it this way: “All of the smart guys got rid of their guns a long-time ago. The penalties are way too high. You get life in prison if you just fire a gun. That’s not fun.”

 

[Grumblenuts]

You won't change human behavior by banning guns.

We can change human behavior when we put our mind to it. Look at smoking cigarettes. It doesn't happen overnight, but it can happen. Too many people don't care that in this country we are shooting each other at an abysmal rate. I don't understand that for the life of me. Why don't they care?

Plenty care. The reason nothing gets done is because gun manufacturing and sales are big business here. Money. The constant fear mongering and focus upon violent solutions being the only ones trickles (floods actually) straight down from the top. Hell, the vast majority of NRA members have supported popular gun controls measures for a long time now, but they are kept voiceless and unrepresented while those in charge keep encouraging all these willing tools to shill for them and laughing all the way to the bank. Year after year. Rinse and repeat. The root cause is always us literally letting those engorged with far, far more than enough continue calling the shots.

 

[bgrouse]

Look no further than London, England, where civilian firearm ownership is de facto banned. Heck, their dear leader had good common sense to ban not only firearms, but sharp, pointy objects as well.

Sorry, you just can't argue the good results, right?

Through March of 2018:

• The murder rate is up 44 percent over the last twelve months
• Violent crime is up 33% over the preceding twelve months
• Home robbery is also up, by a third
• Rape is up 18 percent

Guess those 100lb English ladies are finding the notion of fighting off a 250lb rapist with their fists to be a bit of a sticky wicket???

But hey, but at least there's no gun or knife crime, right?

• Knife crime up 21 percent
• Shootings up 23 percent from the previous year
• More

Hmm...

Well, we all know the only reason London sees this crime is because of all the lax gun laws in nearly Indiana...

Oh, wait. Crap. Never mind.

Hmms, so before last year England didn't have strict gun control? Your stats, which you didn't source btw all speak about an increase this year. How does that help your argument?

Gun control is in full swing and the situation is not improving. The opposite in fact.

Prove that it is a consequence of gun control and not another reason that crime in London is increasing?

If only liberals applied this same level of criticism when comparing the USA to the UK...

 

[OldLady]

You won't change human behavior by banning guns.

We can change human behavior when we put our mind to it. Look at smoking cigarettes. It doesn't happen overnight, but it can happen. Too many people don't care that in this country we are shooting each other at an abysmal rate. I don't understand that for the life of me. Why don't they care?

You're right.

I'm sure all the criminals that were responsible for the increase in that crime were nonsmokers.

You being stupid?

 

[2aguy]

This mass shooting just happened in Australia a few days ago where they have extremely strict gun control.

A 61-year-old farmer is suspected of carrying out Australia's worst mass shooting in 22 years, killing six family members, including four of his grandchildren, before turning the gun on himself last week, an official said Monday.

Grandfather suspected in Australia mass shooting

A woman from Australia discussed shootings in Australia and she brought up an interesting point...in Australia, their nuts mass murder their own families, they don't seem to target strangers in public places....this is a cultural difference considering they still have public shootings in Australia after the ban and confiscation....

She makes the point in this video...at the 1:14 minute mark.

 

[bgrouse]

This mass shooting just happened in Australia a few days ago where they have extremely strict gun control.

A 61-year-old farmer is suspected of carrying out Australia's worst mass shooting in 22 years, killing six family members, including four of his grandchildren, before turning the gun on himself last week, an official said Monday.

Grandfather suspected in Australia mass shooting

A woman from Australia discussed shootings in Australia and she brought up an interesting point...in Australia, their nuts mass murder their own families, they don't seem to target strangers in public places....this is a cultural difference considering they still have public shootings in Australia after the ban and confiscation....

She makes the point in this video...at the 1:14 minute mark.

Since foreigners seem to think guns, not people, cause violent crime, I suggest we release all of our violent criminals / lifers / people on death row right into Australia.

Without guns, of course! At the same time, Australia can have all of their police and military ship us their guns.

 

[OldLady]

You won't change human behavior by banning guns.

We can change human behavior when we put our mind to it. Look at smoking cigarettes. It doesn't happen overnight, but it can happen. Too many people don't care that in this country we are shooting each other at an abysmal rate. I don't understand that for the life of me. Why don't they care?

Plenty care. The reason nothing gets done is because gun manufacturing and sales are big business here. Money. The constant fear mongering and focus upon violent solutions being the only ones trickles (floods actually) straight down from the top. Hell, the vast majority of NRA members have supported popular gun controls measures for a long time now, but they are kept voiceless and unrepresented while those in charge keep encouraging all these willing tools to shill for them while laughing all the way to the bank. Year after year. Rinse and repeat. The root cause is always us literally letting those engorged with far, far more than enough continue calling the shots.

Well, I still have hope. Tobacco was Big Money at one time, too, and it was screeched from the rooftops that it would be the ruination of the south if Tobacco was held responsible for what it peddled. The south appear to be doing fine, and cigarette smoking is a whole lot less popular and socially acceptable than it was forty years ago.

 

[forkup]

c

I have Google you know. If somebody doesn't know something you CAN look it up. Something I wouldn't have had to do if YOU would have sourced your link, something you still haven't done. As to the rest you know what MY source didn't say. Oh it's the fault of gun control, something that does seem to be your argument.

I didn't write the post you claim I did liar. You are confused as usual. Why would a liberal government admit their gun controls were not working? That same government has problems with a police data base that can profile the criminals. Care to guess what group that is?

I was confused. On the other hand I'd rather be confused than a so so troll. Honestly liar???? Is that the best you can do. Try liberal, shit for brains crybaby. Liar just seems so unimaginative, not to mention untrue.

 

[2aguy]

You won't change human behavior by banning guns.

We can change human behavior when we put our mind to it. Look at smoking cigarettes. It doesn't happen overnight, but it can happen. Too many people don't care that in this country we are shooting each other at an abysmal rate. I don't understand that for the life of me. Why don't they care?

Plenty care. The reason nothing gets done is because gun manufacturing and sales are big business here. Money. The constant fear mongering and focus upon violent solutions being the only ones trickles (floods actually) straight down from the top. Hell, the vast majority of NRA members have supported popular gun controls measures for a long time now, but they are kept voiceless and unrepresented while those in charge keep encouraging all these willing tools to shill for them and laughing all the way to the bank. Year after year. Rinse and repeat. The root cause is always us literally letting those engorged with far, far more than enough continue calling the shots.

The majority of NRA members don't understand the issues around gun control, if they did, they wouldn't support them since they all lead to confiscation of their guns.

 

[saveliberty]

c

I have Google you know. If somebody doesn't know something you CAN look it up. Something I wouldn't have had to do if YOU would have sourced your link, something you still haven't done. As to the rest you know what MY source didn't say. Oh it's the fault of gun control, something that does seem to be your argument.

I didn't write the post you claim I did liar. You are confused as usual. Why would a liberal government admit their gun controls were not working? That same government has problems with a police data base that can profile the criminals. Care to guess what group that is?

I was confused. On the other hand I'd rather be confused than a so so troll. Honestly liar???? Is that the best you can do. Try liberal, shit for brains crybaby. Liar just seems so unimaginative, not to mention untrue.

...yet you did lie....you were aware of the facts, but pretended not to know them.

 

[2aguy]

This mass shooting just happened in Australia a few days ago where they have extremely strict gun control.

A 61-year-old farmer is suspected of carrying out Australia's worst mass shooting in 22 years, killing six family members, including four of his grandchildren, before turning the gun on himself last week, an official said Monday.

Grandfather suspected in Australia mass shooting

The next time you use this....ask the anti gunners which Australian gun control law and confiscation kept this 61 year old man from walking into a school and murdering children instead of his family....... that will show exactly how worthless Australian gun control is, and why it is a lie to say that Australian gun control has stopped mass public shootings there...

 

[BluesLegend]

You won't change human behavior by banning guns.

We can change human behavior when we put our mind to it. Look at smoking cigarettes. It doesn't happen overnight, but it can happen. Too many people don't care that in this country we are shooting each other at an abysmal rate. I don't understand that for the life of me. Why don't they care?

People have been killing each other for thousands of years, banning gun's won't change that.

 

[Crepitus]

Look no further than London, England, where civilian firearm ownership is de facto banned. Heck, their dear leader had good common sense to ban not only firearms, but sharp, pointy objects as well.

Sorry, you just can't argue the good results, right?

Through March of 2018:

• The murder rate is up 44 percent over the last twelve months
• Violent crime is up 33% over the preceding twelve months
• Home robbery is also up, by a third
• Rape is up 18 percent

Guess those 100lb English ladies are finding the notion of fighting off a 250lb rapist with their fists to be a bit of a sticky wicket???

But hey, but at least there's no gun or knife crime, right?

• Knife crime up 21 percent
• Shootings up 23 percent from the previous year
• More

Hmm...

Well, we all know the only reason London sees this crime is because of all the lax gun laws in nearly Indiana...

Oh, wait. Crap. Never mind.

Lol, yeah. They are up over 10 murders a month, can you believe it?