Gun control working!

[forkup]

c

I have Google you know. If somebody doesn't know something you CAN look it up. Something I wouldn't have had to do if YOU would have sourced your link, something you still haven't done. As to the rest you know what MY source didn't say. Oh it's the fault of gun control, something that does seem to be your argument.

I didn't write the post you claim I did liar. You are confused as usual. Why would a liberal government admit their gun controls were not working? That same government has problems with a police data base that can profile the criminals. Care to guess what group that is?

I was confused. On the other hand I'd rather be confused than a so so troll. Honestly liar???? Is that the best you can do. Try liberal, shit for brains crybaby. Liar just seems so unimaginative, not to mention untrue.

...yet you did lie....you were aware of the facts, but pretended not to know them.

When I posted I wasn't aware. I made myself aware by using google. I didn't see a reason to edit my previous posts. That's how I think. I make a claim I think is true and then I look up if the facts match it. And by the way I didn't think the stats offered were untrue. I just hate when people don't source, especially something like statistics.

 

[BluesLegend]

You won't change human behavior by banning guns.

We can change human behavior when we put our mind to it. Look at smoking cigarettes. It doesn't happen overnight, but it can happen. Too many people don't care that in this country we are shooting each other at an abysmal rate. I don't understand that for the life of me. Why don't they care?

Plenty care. The reason nothing gets done is because gun manufacturing and sales are big business here. Money. The constant fear mongering and focus upon violent solutions being the only ones trickles (floods actually) straight down from the top. Hell, the vast majority of NRA members have supported popular gun controls measures for a long time now, but they are kept voiceless and unrepresented while those in charge keep encouraging all these willing tools to shill for them and laughing all the way to the bank. Year after year. Rinse and repeat. The root cause is always us literally letting those engorged with far, far more than enough continue calling the shots.

Gun control advocates cannot be trusted, they are liars and their ultimate goal is a total gun ban.

 

[BluesLegend]

You won't change human behavior by banning guns.

We can change human behavior when we put our mind to it. Look at smoking cigarettes. It doesn't happen overnight, but it can happen. Too many people don't care that in this country we are shooting each other at an abysmal rate. I don't understand that for the life of me. Why don't they care?

Plenty care. The reason nothing gets done is because gun manufacturing and sales are big business here. Money. The constant fear mongering and focus upon violent solutions being the only ones trickles (floods actually) straight down from the top. Hell, the vast majority of NRA members have supported popular gun controls measures for a long time now, but they are kept voiceless and unrepresented while those in charge keep encouraging all these willing tools to shill for them while laughing all the way to the bank. Year after year. Rinse and repeat. The root cause is always us literally letting those engorged with far, far more than enough continue calling the shots.

Well, I still have hope. Tobacco was Big Money at one time, too, and it was screeched from the rooftops that it would be the ruination of the south if Tobacco was held responsible for what it peddled. The south appear to be doing fine, and cigarette smoking is a whole lot less popular and socially acceptable than it was forty years ago.

You are talking apples and oranges.

 

[saveliberty]

When I posted I wasn't aware. I made myself aware by using google. I didn't see a reason to edit my previous posts. That's how I think. I make a claim I think is true and then I look up if the facts match it. And by the way I didn't think the stats offered were untrue. I just hate when people don't source, especially something like statistics.

You make a lot of unaware posts. That leads to confusion, which was your plan from the start.

 

[JustAnotherNut]

You won't change human behavior by banning guns.

We can change human behavior when we put our mind to it. Look at smoking cigarettes. It doesn't happen overnight, but it can happen. Too many people don't care that in this country we are shooting each other at an abysmal rate. I don't understand that for the life of me. Why don't they care?

Plenty care. The reason nothing gets done is because gun manufacturing and sales are big business here. Money. The constant fear mongering and focus upon violent solutions being the only ones trickles (floods actually) straight down from the top. Hell, the vast majority of NRA members have supported popular gun controls measures for a long time now, but they are kept voiceless and unrepresented while those in charge keep encouraging all these willing tools to shill for them while laughing all the way to the bank. Year after year. Rinse and repeat. The root cause is always us literally letting those engorged with far, far more than enough continue calling the shots.

Well, I still have hope. Tobacco was Big Money at one time, too, and it was screeched from the rooftops that it would be the ruination of the south if Tobacco was held responsible for what it peddled. The south appear to be doing fine, and cigarette smoking is a whole lot less popular and socially acceptable than it was forty years ago.

Maybe so, but E-cigarettes & Vapes have taken their place. A lot of the contents are still tobacco based and I have no doubt big tobacco has their finger$ in there somewhere. So it's really only changed the packaging of the same basics.

 

[forkup]

Look no further than London, England, where civilian firearm ownership is de facto banned. Heck, their dear leader had good common sense to ban not only firearms, but sharp, pointy objects as well.

Sorry, you just can't argue the good results, right?

Through March of 2018:

• The murder rate is up 44 percent over the last twelve months
• Violent crime is up 33% over the preceding twelve months
• Home robbery is also up, by a third
• Rape is up 18 percent

Guess those 100lb English ladies are finding the notion of fighting off a 250lb rapist with their fists to be a bit of a sticky wicket???

But hey, but at least there's no gun or knife crime, right?

• Knife crime up 21 percent
• Shootings up 23 percent from the previous year
• More

Hmm...

Well, we all know the only reason London sees this crime is because of all the lax gun laws in nearly Indiana...

Oh, wait. Crap. Never mind.

Hmms, so before last year England didn't have strict gun control? Your stats, which you didn't source btw all speak about an increase this year. How does that help your argument?

It has been going up since the ban.....it jumped 44% in London just last year.....

Here.....notice that some of these stats go back to the 10 years just after they banned and confiscated guns....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1223193/Culture-violence-Gun-crime-goes-89-decade.html
Culture of violence: Gun crime goes up by 89% in a decade | Daily Mail Online

The latest Government figures show that the total number of firearm offences in England and Wales has increased from 5,209 in 1998/99 to 9,865 last year - a rise of 89 per cent.

The number of people injured or killed by guns, excluding air weapons, has increased from 864 in 1998/99 to a provisional figure of 1,760 in 2008/09, an increase of 104 per cent .




========



Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show

Ministers will also be concerned that the country is becoming increasingly violent in nature, with gun crime rising 23% to 6,375 offences, largely driven by an increase in the use of handguns.

=========



Gun crime in London increases by 42% - BBC News

Gun crime offences in London surged by 42% in the last year, according to official statistics.

Top trauma surgeon reveals shocking extent of London’s gun crime

A leading trauma surgeon has told how the number of patients treated for gunshot injuries at a major London hospital has doubled in the last five years.

----

He said the hospital’s major trauma centre had seen a bigger rise in gunshot injuries compared to knife wounds and that the average age of victims was getting younger.

-----

Last year, gun crime offences in London increased for a third year running and by 42 per cent, from 1,793 offences in 2015/16 to 2,544 offences in 2016/17. Police have seized 635 guns off the streets so far this year.

Dr Griffiths, who also teaches medical students, said: “Our numbers of victims of gun injury have doubled [since 2012]. Gunshot injuries represent about 2.5 per cent of our penetrating trauma.

-----

Dr Griffiths said the average age of gun crime victims needing treatment at the hospital had decreased from 25 to the mid to late teens since 2012.

He added that medics at the Barts Health hospital’s major trauma centre in Whitechapel had seen a bigger rise in patients with gun injuries rather than knife wounds and that most were caused by pistols or shotguns.

Met Police commander Jim Stokley, who was also invited to speak at the meeting, said that handguns and shotguns were the weapons of choice and that 46 per cent of London’s gun crime discharges were gang-related.

He said: “We believe that a lot of it is associated with the drugs trade, and by that I mean people dealing drugs at street level and disagreements between different gangs.”

Violent crime on the rise in every corner of the country, figures suggest

But analysis of the figures force by force, showed the full extent of the problem, with only one constabulary, Nottinghamshire, recording a reduction in violent offences.

The vast majority of police forces actually witnessed double digit rises in violent crime, with Northumbria posting a 95 per cent increase year on year.

Of the other forces, Durham Police recorded a 73 per cent rise; West Yorkshire was up 48 per cent; Avon and Somerset 45 per cent; Dorset 39 per cent and Warwickshire 37 per cent.

Elsewhere Humberside, South Yorkshire, Staffordshire, Essex, Hertfordshire, Kent, Wiltshire and Dyfed Powys all saw violence rise by more than a quarter year on year.

I've read your links. Absolutely ZERO of them claim that there is ANY correlation between gun control and the increase in crime. They rather site an increase in gang violence and a decrease in the amount of police officers. So how does this help you?

 

[JustAnotherNut]

You won't change human behavior by banning guns.

We can change human behavior when we put our mind to it. Look at smoking cigarettes. It doesn't happen overnight, but it can happen. Too many people don't care that in this country we are shooting each other at an abysmal rate. I don't understand that for the life of me. Why don't they care?

Plenty care. The reason nothing gets done is because gun manufacturing and sales are big business here. Money. The constant fear mongering and focus upon violent solutions being the only ones trickles (floods actually) straight down from the top. Hell, the vast majority of NRA members have supported popular gun controls measures for a long time now, but they are kept voiceless and unrepresented while those in charge keep encouraging all these willing tools to shill for them while laughing all the way to the bank. Year after year. Rinse and repeat. The root cause is always us literally letting those engorged with far, far more than enough continue calling the shots.

Well, I still have hope. Tobacco was Big Money at one time, too, and it was screeched from the rooftops that it would be the ruination of the south if Tobacco was held responsible for what it peddled. The south appear to be doing fine, and cigarette smoking is a whole lot less popular and socially acceptable than it was forty years ago.

You are talking apples and oranges.

Noooooo, she's talking cigarettes vs guns...…..When you control the smoke, usage goes down and if you control the guns, violence will go down.....I think is her point.

But in reality it really doesn't because 'smoking whether cigarettes or vapes will still happen and same with guns & violence. If you take away the guns, violence will still happen.

 

[saveliberty]

I've read your links. Absolutely ZERO of them claim that there is ANY correlation between gun control and the increase in crime. They rather site an increase in gang violence and a decrease in the amount of police officers. So how does this help you?

Law abiding citizens will follow the laws and be unarmed. That makes them easy targets for criminals with guns, knives or superior physical force. It is really not a hard concept.

 

[JustAnotherNut]

Look no further than London, England, where civilian firearm ownership is de facto banned. Heck, their dear leader had good common sense to ban not only firearms, but sharp, pointy objects as well.

Sorry, you just can't argue the good results, right?

Through March of 2018:

• The murder rate is up 44 percent over the last twelve months
• Violent crime is up 33% over the preceding twelve months
• Home robbery is also up, by a third
• Rape is up 18 percent

Guess those 100lb English ladies are finding the notion of fighting off a 250lb rapist with their fists to be a bit of a sticky wicket???

But hey, but at least there's no gun or knife crime, right?

• Knife crime up 21 percent
• Shootings up 23 percent from the previous year
• More

Hmm...

Well, we all know the only reason London sees this crime is because of all the lax gun laws in nearly Indiana...

Oh, wait. Crap. Never mind.

Hmms, so before last year England didn't have strict gun control? Your stats, which you didn't source btw all speak about an increase this year. How does that help your argument?

It has been going up since the ban.....it jumped 44% in London just last year.....

Here.....notice that some of these stats go back to the 10 years just after they banned and confiscated guns....

Culture of violence: Gun crime goes up by 89% in a decade | Daily Mail Online

The latest Government figures show that the total number of firearm offences in England and Wales has increased from 5,209 in 1998/99 to 9,865 last year - a rise of 89 per cent.

The number of people injured or killed by guns, excluding air weapons, has increased from 864 in 1998/99 to a provisional figure of 1,760 in 2008/09, an increase of 104 per cent .




========



Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show

Ministers will also be concerned that the country is becoming increasingly violent in nature, with gun crime rising 23% to 6,375 offences, largely driven by an increase in the use of handguns.

=========



Gun crime in London increases by 42% - BBC News

Gun crime offences in London surged by 42% in the last year, according to official statistics.

Top trauma surgeon reveals shocking extent of London’s gun crime

A leading trauma surgeon has told how the number of patients treated for gunshot injuries at a major London hospital has doubled in the last five years.

----

He said the hospital’s major trauma centre had seen a bigger rise in gunshot injuries compared to knife wounds and that the average age of victims was getting younger.

-----

Last year, gun crime offences in London increased for a third year running and by 42 per cent, from 1,793 offences in 2015/16 to 2,544 offences in 2016/17. Police have seized 635 guns off the streets so far this year.

Dr Griffiths, who also teaches medical students, said: “Our numbers of victims of gun injury have doubled [since 2012]. Gunshot injuries represent about 2.5 per cent of our penetrating trauma.

-----

Dr Griffiths said the average age of gun crime victims needing treatment at the hospital had decreased from 25 to the mid to late teens since 2012.

He added that medics at the Barts Health hospital’s major trauma centre in Whitechapel had seen a bigger rise in patients with gun injuries rather than knife wounds and that most were caused by pistols or shotguns.

Met Police commander Jim Stokley, who was also invited to speak at the meeting, said that handguns and shotguns were the weapons of choice and that 46 per cent of London’s gun crime discharges were gang-related.

He said: “We believe that a lot of it is associated with the drugs trade, and by that I mean people dealing drugs at street level and disagreements between different gangs.”

Violent crime on the rise in every corner of the country, figures suggest

But analysis of the figures force by force, showed the full extent of the problem, with only one constabulary, Nottinghamshire, recording a reduction in violent offences.

The vast majority of police forces actually witnessed double digit rises in violent crime, with Northumbria posting a 95 per cent increase year on year.

Of the other forces, Durham Police recorded a 73 per cent rise; West Yorkshire was up 48 per cent; Avon and Somerset 45 per cent; Dorset 39 per cent and Warwickshire 37 per cent.

Elsewhere Humberside, South Yorkshire, Staffordshire, Essex, Hertfordshire, Kent, Wiltshire and Dyfed Powys all saw violence rise by more than a quarter year on year.

I've read your links. Absolutely ZERO of them claim that there is ANY correlation between gun control and the increase in crime. They rather site an increase in gang violence and a decrease in the amount of police officers. So how does this help you?

That's the whole point of the thread...…..gun control doesn't work

 

[2aguy]

Look no further than London, England, where civilian firearm ownership is de facto banned. Heck, their dear leader had good common sense to ban not only firearms, but sharp, pointy objects as well.

Sorry, you just can't argue the good results, right?

Through March of 2018:

• The murder rate is up 44 percent over the last twelve months
• Violent crime is up 33% over the preceding twelve months
• Home robbery is also up, by a third
• Rape is up 18 percent

Guess those 100lb English ladies are finding the notion of fighting off a 250lb rapist with their fists to be a bit of a sticky wicket???

But hey, but at least there's no gun or knife crime, right?

• Knife crime up 21 percent
• Shootings up 23 percent from the previous year
• More

Hmm...

Well, we all know the only reason London sees this crime is because of all the lax gun laws in nearly Indiana...

Oh, wait. Crap. Never mind.

Hmms, so before last year England didn't have strict gun control? Your stats, which you didn't source btw all speak about an increase this year. How does that help your argument?

It has been going up since the ban.....it jumped 44% in London just last year.....

Here.....notice that some of these stats go back to the 10 years just after they banned and confiscated guns....

Culture of violence: Gun crime goes up by 89% in a decade | Daily Mail Online

The latest Government figures show that the total number of firearm offences in England and Wales has increased from 5,209 in 1998/99 to 9,865 last year - a rise of 89 per cent.

The number of people injured or killed by guns, excluding air weapons, has increased from 864 in 1998/99 to a provisional figure of 1,760 in 2008/09, an increase of 104 per cent .




========



Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show

Ministers will also be concerned that the country is becoming increasingly violent in nature, with gun crime rising 23% to 6,375 offences, largely driven by an increase in the use of handguns.

=========



Gun crime in London increases by 42% - BBC News

Gun crime offences in London surged by 42% in the last year, according to official statistics.

Top trauma surgeon reveals shocking extent of London’s gun crime

A leading trauma surgeon has told how the number of patients treated for gunshot injuries at a major London hospital has doubled in the last five years.

----

He said the hospital’s major trauma centre had seen a bigger rise in gunshot injuries compared to knife wounds and that the average age of victims was getting younger.

-----

Last year, gun crime offences in London increased for a third year running and by 42 per cent, from 1,793 offences in 2015/16 to 2,544 offences in 2016/17. Police have seized 635 guns off the streets so far this year.

Dr Griffiths, who also teaches medical students, said: “Our numbers of victims of gun injury have doubled [since 2012]. Gunshot injuries represent about 2.5 per cent of our penetrating trauma.

-----

Dr Griffiths said the average age of gun crime victims needing treatment at the hospital had decreased from 25 to the mid to late teens since 2012.

He added that medics at the Barts Health hospital’s major trauma centre in Whitechapel had seen a bigger rise in patients with gun injuries rather than knife wounds and that most were caused by pistols or shotguns.

Met Police commander Jim Stokley, who was also invited to speak at the meeting, said that handguns and shotguns were the weapons of choice and that 46 per cent of London’s gun crime discharges were gang-related.

He said: “We believe that a lot of it is associated with the drugs trade, and by that I mean people dealing drugs at street level and disagreements between different gangs.”

Violent crime on the rise in every corner of the country, figures suggest

But analysis of the figures force by force, showed the full extent of the problem, with only one constabulary, Nottinghamshire, recording a reduction in violent offences.

The vast majority of police forces actually witnessed double digit rises in violent crime, with Northumbria posting a 95 per cent increase year on year.

Of the other forces, Durham Police recorded a 73 per cent rise; West Yorkshire was up 48 per cent; Avon and Somerset 45 per cent; Dorset 39 per cent and Warwickshire 37 per cent.

Elsewhere Humberside, South Yorkshire, Staffordshire, Essex, Hertfordshire, Kent, Wiltshire and Dyfed Powys all saw violence rise by more than a quarter year on year.

I've read your links. Absolutely ZERO of them claim that there is ANY correlation between gun control and the increase in crime. They rather site an increase in gang violence and a decrease in the amount of police officers. So how does this help you?

And you miss the most important points...

1) This disproves your core argument..... taking guns away from law abiding gun owners does not lower the gun crime rate.
.....as the link to the United States shows.....more guns in the hands of law abiding gun owners does not increase the gun crime rate....

So you are wrong there.

2) Criminals in Britain get guns easily.....they are an island, they have banned and confiscated guns, and their gun crime rates are going up, not down....showing gun control does not lower the gun crime rate.

 

[forkup]

Prove that it is a consequence of gun control

I'm not even going that far with it. I'm just pointing out that all the regulations you could ever ask for are in place yet the situation there is getting worse. The point is gun control doesn't stop criminals from committing crime. It just makes it harder for everyday people to fight back.

Nobody EVER claimed that gun control can make crime disappear. It's the favorite straw man argument employed in this debate. Gun control at best can mitigate SOME of the consequences of SOME crimes. I've yet to see any actual research that shows that owning a gun has ANY effect on the amount of crimes committed. There is however ample evidence of the LACK of gun control having a negative effect on the amount of fatalities by crime. The US has the highest gun ownership per capita in the world yet surprisingly enough it also has the highest incarceration rate of that Western World so your argument falls flat. Estimated number of guns per capita by country - Wikipedia
List of countries by incarceration rate - Wikipedia

We have the highest incarceration rates in the world because of the war on drugs and systemic racism, not because a bunch of people own guns.

So you acknowledge that using the fact that people commit crimes isn't affected by gun control? Good we are getting somewhere. So if you acknowledge that, doesn't limiting guns make sense since it does decrease the amount of fatalities?

Wrong.....Americans use their legal guns for self defense 2.4 million times a year according to the CDC, if you ban those guns from those people, the criminals still get guns...as shown by increasing gun crime across Britain and Europe, but those law abiding victims won't be able to stop those crimes.....

You are simply wrong.

You still haven't given a single source that gives gun control as a reason for the increase.

 

[2aguy]

I'm not even going that far with it. I'm just pointing out that all the regulations you could ever ask for are in place yet the situation there is getting worse. The point is gun control doesn't stop criminals from committing crime. It just makes it harder for everyday people to fight back.

Nobody EVER claimed that gun control can make crime disappear. It's the favorite straw man argument employed in this debate. Gun control at best can mitigate SOME of the consequences of SOME crimes. I've yet to see any actual research that shows that owning a gun has ANY effect on the amount of crimes committed. There is however ample evidence of the LACK of gun control having a negative effect on the amount of fatalities by crime. The US has the highest gun ownership per capita in the world yet surprisingly enough it also has the highest incarceration rate of that Western World so your argument falls flat. Estimated number of guns per capita by country - Wikipedia
List of countries by incarceration rate - Wikipedia

We have the highest incarceration rates in the world because of the war on drugs and systemic racism, not because a bunch of people own guns.

So you acknowledge that using the fact that people commit crimes isn't affected by gun control? Good we are getting somewhere. So if you acknowledge that, doesn't limiting guns make sense since it does decrease the amount of fatalities?

Wrong.....Americans use their legal guns for self defense 2.4 million times a year according to the CDC, if you ban those guns from those people, the criminals still get guns...as shown by increasing gun crime across Britain and Europe, but those law abiding victims won't be able to stop those crimes.....

You are simply wrong.

You still haven't given a single source that gives gun control as a reason for the increase.

You still don't see it......

The increase is because criminals want more guns....gun control did not stop them from getting those guns.....even on an island, and even in a city where the cops can stop and frisk and have more cameras than any other city in the world.....

What you fail to understand.....the truth...... taking guns away from law abiding gun owners does not lower the gun crime rate.....Britain shows this clearly.....as does our own experience where gun crime has gone down as more Americans own and carry guns....

 

[forkup]

I've read your links. Absolutely ZERO of them claim that there is ANY correlation between gun control and the increase in crime. They rather site an increase in gang violence and a decrease in the amount of police officers. So how does this help you?

Law abiding citizens will follow the laws and be unarmed. That makes them easy targets for criminals with guns, knives or superior physical force. It is really not a hard concept.

If that was true, the US would be the safest place on the planet which it simply isn't since it has the highest amount of guns per capita. It occupies the 35th spot on the place with the most crimes per capita. Crime Index by Country 2018

 

[forkup]

Look no further than London, England, where civilian firearm ownership is de facto banned. Heck, their dear leader had good common sense to ban not only firearms, but sharp, pointy objects as well.

Sorry, you just can't argue the good results, right?

Through March of 2018:

• The murder rate is up 44 percent over the last twelve months
• Violent crime is up 33% over the preceding twelve months
• Home robbery is also up, by a third
• Rape is up 18 percent

Guess those 100lb English ladies are finding the notion of fighting off a 250lb rapist with their fists to be a bit of a sticky wicket???

But hey, but at least there's no gun or knife crime, right?

• Knife crime up 21 percent
• Shootings up 23 percent from the previous year
• More

Hmm...

Well, we all know the only reason London sees this crime is because of all the lax gun laws in nearly Indiana...

Oh, wait. Crap. Never mind.

Hmms, so before last year England didn't have strict gun control? Your stats, which you didn't source btw all speak about an increase this year. How does that help your argument?

It has been going up since the ban.....it jumped 44% in London just last year.....

Here.....notice that some of these stats go back to the 10 years just after they banned and confiscated guns....

Culture of violence: Gun crime goes up by 89% in a decade | Daily Mail Online

The latest Government figures show that the total number of firearm offences in England and Wales has increased from 5,209 in 1998/99 to 9,865 last year - a rise of 89 per cent.

The number of people injured or killed by guns, excluding air weapons, has increased from 864 in 1998/99 to a provisional figure of 1,760 in 2008/09, an increase of 104 per cent .




========



Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show

Ministers will also be concerned that the country is becoming increasingly violent in nature, with gun crime rising 23% to 6,375 offences, largely driven by an increase in the use of handguns.

=========



Gun crime in London increases by 42% - BBC News

Gun crime offences in London surged by 42% in the last year, according to official statistics.

Top trauma surgeon reveals shocking extent of London’s gun crime

A leading trauma surgeon has told how the number of patients treated for gunshot injuries at a major London hospital has doubled in the last five years.

----

He said the hospital’s major trauma centre had seen a bigger rise in gunshot injuries compared to knife wounds and that the average age of victims was getting younger.

-----

Last year, gun crime offences in London increased for a third year running and by 42 per cent, from 1,793 offences in 2015/16 to 2,544 offences in 2016/17. Police have seized 635 guns off the streets so far this year.

Dr Griffiths, who also teaches medical students, said: “Our numbers of victims of gun injury have doubled [since 2012]. Gunshot injuries represent about 2.5 per cent of our penetrating trauma.

-----

Dr Griffiths said the average age of gun crime victims needing treatment at the hospital had decreased from 25 to the mid to late teens since 2012.

He added that medics at the Barts Health hospital’s major trauma centre in Whitechapel had seen a bigger rise in patients with gun injuries rather than knife wounds and that most were caused by pistols or shotguns.

Met Police commander Jim Stokley, who was also invited to speak at the meeting, said that handguns and shotguns were the weapons of choice and that 46 per cent of London’s gun crime discharges were gang-related.

He said: “We believe that a lot of it is associated with the drugs trade, and by that I mean people dealing drugs at street level and disagreements between different gangs.”

Violent crime on the rise in every corner of the country, figures suggest

But analysis of the figures force by force, showed the full extent of the problem, with only one constabulary, Nottinghamshire, recording a reduction in violent offences.

The vast majority of police forces actually witnessed double digit rises in violent crime, with Northumbria posting a 95 per cent increase year on year.

Of the other forces, Durham Police recorded a 73 per cent rise; West Yorkshire was up 48 per cent; Avon and Somerset 45 per cent; Dorset 39 per cent and Warwickshire 37 per cent.

Elsewhere Humberside, South Yorkshire, Staffordshire, Essex, Hertfordshire, Kent, Wiltshire and Dyfed Powys all saw violence rise by more than a quarter year on year.

I've read your links. Absolutely ZERO of them claim that there is ANY correlation between gun control and the increase in crime. They rather site an increase in gang violence and a decrease in the amount of police officers. So how does this help you?

That's the whole point of the thread...…..gun control doesn't work

No gun control doesn't help in decreasing crime, it does help in reducing the amount of fatalities. Hence the reason it is a strawman argument to begin with. Show me one gun control advocate the says that controlling guns will STOP crime.

 

[2aguy]

I've read your links. Absolutely ZERO of them claim that there is ANY correlation between gun control and the increase in crime. They rather site an increase in gang violence and a decrease in the amount of police officers. So how does this help you?

Law abiding citizens will follow the laws and be unarmed. That makes them easy targets for criminals with guns, knives or superior physical force. It is really not a hard concept.

If that was true, the US would be the safest place on the planet which it simply isn't since it has the highest amount of guns per capita. It occupies the 35th spot on the place with the most crimes per capita. Crime Index by Country 2018

Wrong again.....you confuse gun ownership for the cause of violent crime...and you are just plain wrong....

according to you, our gun crime should have increased as more Americans own and carry guns....the exact opposite happened.......crime rates have to do with criminals engaging in crime....murder rates happen because criminals murder people...in Britain, they have increasing gun crime, but their gun murder rate isn't going up as fast...because their criminals shoot each other below the waist so they don't kill their victim......

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

 

[MisterBeale]

You won't change human behavior by banning guns.

We can change human behavior when we put our mind to it. Look at smoking cigarettes. It doesn't happen overnight, but it can happen. Too many people don't care that in this country we are shooting each other at an abysmal rate. I don't understand that for the life of me. Why don't they care?

You're right.

I'm sure all the criminals that were responsible for the increase in that crime were nonsmokers.

You being stupid?

Are you?


Your hypothesis is that we can actually stop folks from ever committing crime. Seriously?

 

[2aguy]

Look no further than London, England, where civilian firearm ownership is de facto banned. Heck, their dear leader had good common sense to ban not only firearms, but sharp, pointy objects as well.

Sorry, you just can't argue the good results, right?

Through March of 2018:

• The murder rate is up 44 percent over the last twelve months
• Violent crime is up 33% over the preceding twelve months
• Home robbery is also up, by a third
• Rape is up 18 percent

Guess those 100lb English ladies are finding the notion of fighting off a 250lb rapist with their fists to be a bit of a sticky wicket???

But hey, but at least there's no gun or knife crime, right?

• Knife crime up 21 percent
• Shootings up 23 percent from the previous year
• More

Hmm...

Well, we all know the only reason London sees this crime is because of all the lax gun laws in nearly Indiana...

Oh, wait. Crap. Never mind.

Hmms, so before last year England didn't have strict gun control? Your stats, which you didn't source btw all speak about an increase this year. How does that help your argument?

It has been going up since the ban.....it jumped 44% in London just last year.....

Here.....notice that some of these stats go back to the 10 years just after they banned and confiscated guns....

Culture of violence: Gun crime goes up by 89% in a decade | Daily Mail Online

The latest Government figures show that the total number of firearm offences in England and Wales has increased from 5,209 in 1998/99 to 9,865 last year - a rise of 89 per cent.

The number of people injured or killed by guns, excluding air weapons, has increased from 864 in 1998/99 to a provisional figure of 1,760 in 2008/09, an increase of 104 per cent .




========



Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show

Ministers will also be concerned that the country is becoming increasingly violent in nature, with gun crime rising 23% to 6,375 offences, largely driven by an increase in the use of handguns.

=========



Gun crime in London increases by 42% - BBC News

Gun crime offences in London surged by 42% in the last year, according to official statistics.

Top trauma surgeon reveals shocking extent of London’s gun crime

A leading trauma surgeon has told how the number of patients treated for gunshot injuries at a major London hospital has doubled in the last five years.

----

He said the hospital’s major trauma centre had seen a bigger rise in gunshot injuries compared to knife wounds and that the average age of victims was getting younger.

-----

Last year, gun crime offences in London increased for a third year running and by 42 per cent, from 1,793 offences in 2015/16 to 2,544 offences in 2016/17. Police have seized 635 guns off the streets so far this year.

Dr Griffiths, who also teaches medical students, said: “Our numbers of victims of gun injury have doubled [since 2012]. Gunshot injuries represent about 2.5 per cent of our penetrating trauma.

-----

Dr Griffiths said the average age of gun crime victims needing treatment at the hospital had decreased from 25 to the mid to late teens since 2012.

He added that medics at the Barts Health hospital’s major trauma centre in Whitechapel had seen a bigger rise in patients with gun injuries rather than knife wounds and that most were caused by pistols or shotguns.

Met Police commander Jim Stokley, who was also invited to speak at the meeting, said that handguns and shotguns were the weapons of choice and that 46 per cent of London’s gun crime discharges were gang-related.

He said: “We believe that a lot of it is associated with the drugs trade, and by that I mean people dealing drugs at street level and disagreements between different gangs.”

Violent crime on the rise in every corner of the country, figures suggest

But analysis of the figures force by force, showed the full extent of the problem, with only one constabulary, Nottinghamshire, recording a reduction in violent offences.

The vast majority of police forces actually witnessed double digit rises in violent crime, with Northumbria posting a 95 per cent increase year on year.

Of the other forces, Durham Police recorded a 73 per cent rise; West Yorkshire was up 48 per cent; Avon and Somerset 45 per cent; Dorset 39 per cent and Warwickshire 37 per cent.

Elsewhere Humberside, South Yorkshire, Staffordshire, Essex, Hertfordshire, Kent, Wiltshire and Dyfed Powys all saw violence rise by more than a quarter year on year.

I've read your links. Absolutely ZERO of them claim that there is ANY correlation between gun control and the increase in crime. They rather site an increase in gang violence and a decrease in the amount of police officers. So how does this help you?

That's the whole point of the thread...…..gun control doesn't work

No gun control doesn't help in decreasing crime, it does help in reducing the amount of fatalities. Hence the reason it is a strawman argument to begin with. Show me one gun control advocate the says that controlling guns will STOP crime.

You are wrong.....

Does Gun Control Reduce Murder? Let’s Run The Numbers Globally



Let’s look at the countries with the highest concentrations of gun ownership (excluding Yemen and Iraq as active war zones). Guns per murder in those countries are,

1. United States at 20,967,
2. Uruguay at 3,777,
3. Norway at 55,893,
4. France at 19,747,
5. Austria at 59,608,
6. Germany at 35,647,
7. Switzerland at 35,435,
8. New Zealand at 24,835, and
9. Greece at 26,471.

Norway is a particularly interesting example. It has 10 times the gun ownership rate of the United Kingdom, but only half the murder rate.

When one excludes Iraq and Yemen, not one of the countries on the list of the 10 highest rates of gun ownership also appears on the list of the top ten highest murder rates. In fact, the countries with the highest murder rates have markedly low gun ownership rates.

1. El Savador (108.64 murders per 100,000/5800 guns per 100,000)
2. Honduras (63.75/6200)
3. Venezuela (57.15/10,700)
4. Jamaica (43.21/8,100)
5. Lesotho (38/2,700)
6. Belize (34.4/10,000)
7. South Africa (34.27/12,700)
8. Guatemala (31.21/13,100)
9. Trinidad (30.88/1,600)
10. Bahamas (29.81/5,300)

It really doesn’t matter how you slice this data.

The conclusion is inescapable: High concentrations of private, legal gun ownership do not correlate positively to increased murders. Indeed, you can look at almost any slice of data and conclude the opposite: Higher private ownership of guns can be strongly correlated to lower murder rates.

The data also exposes some myths I have heard about gun control. For example, I’ve heard activists tout Australia, which supposedly banned all guns. Australia has advanced a number of gun control measures over the years. Nevertheless, according to the data, Australia has a rate of private ownership of guns of 13,100 per 100,000 and a murder rate of .98.

Australia has almost twice as many guns per capita as the United Kingdom, for example, and a comparable murder rate. New Zealand has almost twice as many guns per capita as Australia but a lower crime rate.

Countries with both a low rate of private gun ownership and a low murder rate exist, but they are clearly data outliers. These include the Netherlands (3,900 guns per 100,000, for a murder rate of .61) the United Kingdom (6,200 guns per 100,000, for a murder rate of .92), Japan, and Portugal. Places like Norway, Austria, Switzerland, and Germany overwhelm those examples because they all have high rates of gun ownership and enviable crime rates.

-------

The ratio of murders per gun works as a decent measure for how responsible a country’s citizens are with their firearms. Measured in this light, an owner of a private legal gun in America measures as one of the most responsible in the world. A gun in America is 387 times less likely to be used in a murder than in El Salvador. Even in Japan, which has one of the lowest murder and gun ownership rates in the world, there are ten times as many murders per gun than in America.

 

[BluesLegend]

You won't change human behavior by banning guns.

We can change human behavior when we put our mind to it. Look at smoking cigarettes. It doesn't happen overnight, but it can happen. Too many people don't care that in this country we are shooting each other at an abysmal rate. I don't understand that for the life of me. Why don't they care?

Plenty care. The reason nothing gets done is because gun manufacturing and sales are big business here. Money. The constant fear mongering and focus upon violent solutions being the only ones trickles (floods actually) straight down from the top. Hell, the vast majority of NRA members have supported popular gun controls measures for a long time now, but they are kept voiceless and unrepresented while those in charge keep encouraging all these willing tools to shill for them while laughing all the way to the bank. Year after year. Rinse and repeat. The root cause is always us literally letting those engorged with far, far more than enough continue calling the shots.

Well, I still have hope. Tobacco was Big Money at one time, too, and it was screeched from the rooftops that it would be the ruination of the south if Tobacco was held responsible for what it peddled. The south appear to be doing fine, and cigarette smoking is a whole lot less popular and socially acceptable than it was forty years ago.

You are talking apples and oranges.

Noooooo, she's talking cigarettes vs guns...…..When you control the smoke, usage goes down and if you control the guns, violence will go down.....I think is her point.

But in reality it really doesn't because 'smoking whether cigarettes or vapes will still happen and same with guns & violence. If you take away the guns, violence will still happen.

Wrong, when guns were banned in the UK murders did not go down. In fact there were more murders in London than NY City, now they are banning knives lol.

 

[2aguy]

Look no further than London, England, where civilian firearm ownership is de facto banned. Heck, their dear leader had good common sense to ban not only firearms, but sharp, pointy objects as well.

Sorry, you just can't argue the good results, right?

Through March of 2018:

• The murder rate is up 44 percent over the last twelve months
• Violent crime is up 33% over the preceding twelve months
• Home robbery is also up, by a third
• Rape is up 18 percent

Guess those 100lb English ladies are finding the notion of fighting off a 250lb rapist with their fists to be a bit of a sticky wicket???

But hey, but at least there's no gun or knife crime, right?

• Knife crime up 21 percent
• Shootings up 23 percent from the previous year
• More

Hmm...

Well, we all know the only reason London sees this crime is because of all the lax gun laws in nearly Indiana...

Oh, wait. Crap. Never mind.

Hmms, so before last year England didn't have strict gun control? Your stats, which you didn't source btw all speak about an increase this year. How does that help your argument?

It has been going up since the ban.....it jumped 44% in London just last year.....

Here.....notice that some of these stats go back to the 10 years just after they banned and confiscated guns....

Culture of violence: Gun crime goes up by 89% in a decade | Daily Mail Online

The latest Government figures show that the total number of firearm offences in England and Wales has increased from 5,209 in 1998/99 to 9,865 last year - a rise of 89 per cent.

The number of people injured or killed by guns, excluding air weapons, has increased from 864 in 1998/99 to a provisional figure of 1,760 in 2008/09, an increase of 104 per cent .




========



Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show

Ministers will also be concerned that the country is becoming increasingly violent in nature, with gun crime rising 23% to 6,375 offences, largely driven by an increase in the use of handguns.

=========



Gun crime in London increases by 42% - BBC News

Gun crime offences in London surged by 42% in the last year, according to official statistics.

Top trauma surgeon reveals shocking extent of London’s gun crime

A leading trauma surgeon has told how the number of patients treated for gunshot injuries at a major London hospital has doubled in the last five years.

----

He said the hospital’s major trauma centre had seen a bigger rise in gunshot injuries compared to knife wounds and that the average age of victims was getting younger.

-----

Last year, gun crime offences in London increased for a third year running and by 42 per cent, from 1,793 offences in 2015/16 to 2,544 offences in 2016/17. Police have seized 635 guns off the streets so far this year.

Dr Griffiths, who also teaches medical students, said: “Our numbers of victims of gun injury have doubled [since 2012]. Gunshot injuries represent about 2.5 per cent of our penetrating trauma.

-----

Dr Griffiths said the average age of gun crime victims needing treatment at the hospital had decreased from 25 to the mid to late teens since 2012.

He added that medics at the Barts Health hospital’s major trauma centre in Whitechapel had seen a bigger rise in patients with gun injuries rather than knife wounds and that most were caused by pistols or shotguns.

Met Police commander Jim Stokley, who was also invited to speak at the meeting, said that handguns and shotguns were the weapons of choice and that 46 per cent of London’s gun crime discharges were gang-related.

He said: “We believe that a lot of it is associated with the drugs trade, and by that I mean people dealing drugs at street level and disagreements between different gangs.”

Violent crime on the rise in every corner of the country, figures suggest

But analysis of the figures force by force, showed the full extent of the problem, with only one constabulary, Nottinghamshire, recording a reduction in violent offences.

The vast majority of police forces actually witnessed double digit rises in violent crime, with Northumbria posting a 95 per cent increase year on year.

Of the other forces, Durham Police recorded a 73 per cent rise; West Yorkshire was up 48 per cent; Avon and Somerset 45 per cent; Dorset 39 per cent and Warwickshire 37 per cent.

Elsewhere Humberside, South Yorkshire, Staffordshire, Essex, Hertfordshire, Kent, Wiltshire and Dyfed Powys all saw violence rise by more than a quarter year on year.

I've read your links. Absolutely ZERO of them claim that there is ANY correlation between gun control and the increase in crime. They rather site an increase in gang violence and a decrease in the amount of police officers. So how does this help you?

That's the whole point of the thread...…..gun control doesn't work

No gun control doesn't help in decreasing crime, it does help in reducing the amount of fatalities. Hence the reason it is a strawman argument to begin with. Show me one gun control advocate the says that controlling guns will STOP crime.

And you are wrong.....they have more guns in Britain now, but their gun murder rates are not going up...because their criminals are not murdering their victims...

 

[2aguy]

Look no further than London, England, where civilian firearm ownership is de facto banned. Heck, their dear leader had good common sense to ban not only firearms, but sharp, pointy objects as well.

Sorry, you just can't argue the good results, right?

Through March of 2018:

• The murder rate is up 44 percent over the last twelve months
• Violent crime is up 33% over the preceding twelve months
• Home robbery is also up, by a third
• Rape is up 18 percent

Guess those 100lb English ladies are finding the notion of fighting off a 250lb rapist with their fists to be a bit of a sticky wicket???

But hey, but at least there's no gun or knife crime, right?

• Knife crime up 21 percent
• Shootings up 23 percent from the previous year
• More

Hmm...

Well, we all know the only reason London sees this crime is because of all the lax gun laws in nearly Indiana...

Oh, wait. Crap. Never mind.

Hmms, so before last year England didn't have strict gun control? Your stats, which you didn't source btw all speak about an increase this year. How does that help your argument?

It has been going up since the ban.....it jumped 44% in London just last year.....

Here.....notice that some of these stats go back to the 10 years just after they banned and confiscated guns....

Culture of violence: Gun crime goes up by 89% in a decade | Daily Mail Online

The latest Government figures show that the total number of firearm offences in England and Wales has increased from 5,209 in 1998/99 to 9,865 last year - a rise of 89 per cent.

The number of people injured or killed by guns, excluding air weapons, has increased from 864 in 1998/99 to a provisional figure of 1,760 in 2008/09, an increase of 104 per cent .




========



Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show

Ministers will also be concerned that the country is becoming increasingly violent in nature, with gun crime rising 23% to 6,375 offences, largely driven by an increase in the use of handguns.

=========



Gun crime in London increases by 42% - BBC News

Gun crime offences in London surged by 42% in the last year, according to official statistics.

Top trauma surgeon reveals shocking extent of London’s gun crime

A leading trauma surgeon has told how the number of patients treated for gunshot injuries at a major London hospital has doubled in the last five years.

----

He said the hospital’s major trauma centre had seen a bigger rise in gunshot injuries compared to knife wounds and that the average age of victims was getting younger.

-----

Last year, gun crime offences in London increased for a third year running and by 42 per cent, from 1,793 offences in 2015/16 to 2,544 offences in 2016/17. Police have seized 635 guns off the streets so far this year.

Dr Griffiths, who also teaches medical students, said: “Our numbers of victims of gun injury have doubled [since 2012]. Gunshot injuries represent about 2.5 per cent of our penetrating trauma.

-----

Dr Griffiths said the average age of gun crime victims needing treatment at the hospital had decreased from 25 to the mid to late teens since 2012.

He added that medics at the Barts Health hospital’s major trauma centre in Whitechapel had seen a bigger rise in patients with gun injuries rather than knife wounds and that most were caused by pistols or shotguns.

Met Police commander Jim Stokley, who was also invited to speak at the meeting, said that handguns and shotguns were the weapons of choice and that 46 per cent of London’s gun crime discharges were gang-related.

He said: “We believe that a lot of it is associated with the drugs trade, and by that I mean people dealing drugs at street level and disagreements between different gangs.”

Violent crime on the rise in every corner of the country, figures suggest

But analysis of the figures force by force, showed the full extent of the problem, with only one constabulary, Nottinghamshire, recording a reduction in violent offences.

The vast majority of police forces actually witnessed double digit rises in violent crime, with Northumbria posting a 95 per cent increase year on year.

Of the other forces, Durham Police recorded a 73 per cent rise; West Yorkshire was up 48 per cent; Avon and Somerset 45 per cent; Dorset 39 per cent and Warwickshire 37 per cent.

Elsewhere Humberside, South Yorkshire, Staffordshire, Essex, Hertfordshire, Kent, Wiltshire and Dyfed Powys all saw violence rise by more than a quarter year on year.

I've read your links. Absolutely ZERO of them claim that there is ANY correlation between gun control and the increase in crime. They rather site an increase in gang violence and a decrease in the amount of police officers. So how does this help you?

That's the whole point of the thread...…..gun control doesn't work

No gun control doesn't help in decreasing crime, it does help in reducing the amount of fatalities. Hence the reason it is a strawman argument to begin with. Show me one gun control advocate the says that controlling guns will STOP crime.

Let's look at accidental gun death...as more Americans not only own more guns, but over 17 million Americans are now carrying guns.....

https://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/leading_causes_death.html


2016 495
2015...489http://webappa.cdc.gov/cgi-bin/broker.exe

2014.....486

2013 ..... 505
2012 ..... 548
2011 ..... 591
2010 ..... 606
2009 ..... 554
2008 ..... 592
2007..... 613
2006..... 642
2005 ..... 789
2004 ..... 649
2003 ..... 730
2002 ..... 762
2001 ..... 802
2000 ..... 776
1999 ..... 824