Gun control working!

Look no further than London, England, where civilian firearm ownership is de facto banned. Heck, their dear leader had good common sense to ban not only firearms, but sharp, pointy objects as well.

Sorry, you just can't argue the good results, right?

Through March of 2018:
  • The murder rate is up 44 percent over the last twelve months
  • Violent crime is up 33% over the preceding twelve months
  • Home robbery is also up, by a third
  • Rape is up 18 percent

Guess those 100lb English ladies are finding the notion of fighting off a 250lb rapist with their fists to be a bit of a sticky wicket???

But hey, but at least there's no gun or knife crime, right?
  • Knife crime up 21 percent
  • Shootings up 23 percent from the previous year
  • More

Hmm...

Well, we all know the only reason London sees this crime is because of all the lax gun laws in nearly Indiana...

Oh, wait. Crap. Never mind.

Yes, it doesn't work. And to add to the pain, now they have just banned knives - the results will be as usual.

But for this one, I have to say that even the bigger failure here could be the immigration policy. They have Muslim mayor. They have gone all in on the Leftists retard mode.
 
Look no further than London, England, where civilian firearm ownership is de facto banned. Heck, their dear leader had good common sense to ban not only firearms, but sharp, pointy objects as well.

Sorry, you just can't argue the good results, right?

Through March of 2018:
  • The murder rate is up 44 percent over the last twelve months
  • Violent crime is up 33% over the preceding twelve months
  • Home robbery is also up, by a third
  • Rape is up 18 percent

Guess those 100lb English ladies are finding the notion of fighting off a 250lb rapist with their fists to be a bit of a sticky wicket???

But hey, but at least there's no gun or knife crime, right?
  • Knife crime up 21 percent
  • Shootings up 23 percent from the previous year
  • More

Hmm...

Well, we all know the only reason London sees this crime is because of all the lax gun laws in nearly Indiana...

Oh, wait. Crap. Never mind.
Hmms, so before last year England didn't have strict gun control? Your stats, which you didn't source btw all speak about an increase this year. How does that help your argument?

It has been going up since the ban.....it jumped 44% in London just last year.....

Here.....notice that some of these stats go back to the 10 years just after they banned and confiscated guns....

Culture of violence: Gun crime goes up by 89% in a decade | Daily Mail Online

The latest Government figures show that the total number of firearm offences in England and Wales has increased from 5,209 in 1998/99 to 9,865 last year - a rise of 89 per cent.

The number of people injured or killed by guns, excluding air weapons, has increased from 864 in 1998/99 to a provisional figure of 1,760 in 2008/09, an increase of 104 per cent .




========



Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show

Ministers will also be concerned that the country is becoming increasingly violent in nature, with gun crime rising 23% to 6,375 offences, largely driven by an increase in the use of handguns.

=========



Gun crime in London increases by 42% - BBC News

Gun crime offences in London surged by 42% in the last year, according to official statistics.

Top trauma surgeon reveals shocking extent of London’s gun crime

A leading trauma surgeon has told how the number of patients treated for gunshot injuries at a major London hospital has doubled in the last five years.

----

He said the hospital’s major trauma centre had seen a bigger rise in gunshot injuries compared to knife wounds and that the average age of victims was getting younger.

-----

Last year, gun crime offences in London increased for a third year running and by 42 per cent, from 1,793 offences in 2015/16 to 2,544 offences in 2016/17. Police have seized 635 guns off the streets so far this year.

Dr Griffiths, who also teaches medical students, said: “Our numbers of victims of gun injury have doubled [since 2012]. Gunshot injuries represent about 2.5 per cent of our penetrating trauma.

-----

Dr Griffiths said the average age of gun crime victims needing treatment at the hospital had decreased from 25 to the mid to late teens since 2012.

He added that medics at the Barts Health hospital’s major trauma centre in Whitechapel had seen a bigger rise in patients with gun injuries rather than knife wounds and that most were caused by pistols or shotguns.

Met Police commander Jim Stokley, who was also invited to speak at the meeting, said that handguns and shotguns were the weapons of choice and that 46 per cent of London’s gun crime discharges were gang-related.

He said: “We believe that a lot of it is associated with the drugs trade, and by that I mean people dealing drugs at street level and disagreements between different gangs.”

Violent crime on the rise in every corner of the country, figures suggest

But analysis of the figures force by force, showed the full extent of the problem, with only one constabulary, Nottinghamshire, recording a reduction in violent offences.

The vast majority of police forces actually witnessed double digit rises in violent crime, with Northumbria posting a 95 per cent increase year on year.

Of the other forces, Durham Police recorded a 73 per cent rise; West Yorkshire was up 48 per cent; Avon and Somerset 45 per cent; Dorset 39 per cent and Warwickshire 37 per cent.

Elsewhere Humberside, South Yorkshire, Staffordshire, Essex, Hertfordshire, Kent, Wiltshire and Dyfed Powys all saw violence rise by more than a quarter year on year.
I've read your links. Absolutely ZERO of them claim that there is ANY correlation between gun control and the increase in crime. They rather site an increase in gang violence and a decrease in the amount of police officers. So how does this help you?


And you miss the most important points...

1) This disproves your core argument..... taking guns away from law abiding gun owners does not lower the gun crime rate.
.....as the link to the United States shows.....more guns in the hands of law abiding gun owners does not increase the gun crime rate....

So you are wrong there.

2) Criminals in Britain get guns easily.....they are an island, they have banned and confiscated guns, and their gun crime rates are going up, not down....showing gun control does not lower the gun crime rate.
1) It does.America doesn’t have more crime than other rich countries. It just has more guns.
2) Again prove that the crime rates going up has ANYTHING to do with the lack of gun control.

Repeating an argument doesn't make it true. PROVE IT
 
You won't change human behavior by banning guns.
We can change human behavior when we put our mind to it. Look at smoking cigarettes. It doesn't happen overnight, but it can happen. Too many people don't care that in this country we are shooting each other at an abysmal rate. I don't understand that for the life of me. Why don't they care?
You're right.

I'm sure all the criminals that were responsible for the increase in that crime were nonsmokers.

:abgg2q.jpg:
You being stupid?
Are you?


Your hypothesis is that we can actually stop folks from ever committing crime. Seriously?

1eeklx.jpg

Murder has already been banned, how's that working?
 
Look no further than London, England, where civilian firearm ownership is de facto banned. Heck, their dear leader had good common sense to ban not only firearms, but sharp, pointy objects as well.

Sorry, you just can't argue the good results, right?

Through March of 2018:
  • The murder rate is up 44 percent over the last twelve months
  • Violent crime is up 33% over the preceding twelve months
  • Home robbery is also up, by a third
  • Rape is up 18 percent

Guess those 100lb English ladies are finding the notion of fighting off a 250lb rapist with their fists to be a bit of a sticky wicket???

But hey, but at least there's no gun or knife crime, right?
  • Knife crime up 21 percent
  • Shootings up 23 percent from the previous year
  • More

Hmm...

Well, we all know the only reason London sees this crime is because of all the lax gun laws in nearly Indiana...

Oh, wait. Crap. Never mind.
Hmms, so before last year England didn't have strict gun control? Your stats, which you didn't source btw all speak about an increase this year. How does that help your argument?

It has been going up since the ban.....it jumped 44% in London just last year.....

Here.....notice that some of these stats go back to the 10 years just after they banned and confiscated guns....

Culture of violence: Gun crime goes up by 89% in a decade | Daily Mail Online

The latest Government figures show that the total number of firearm offences in England and Wales has increased from 5,209 in 1998/99 to 9,865 last year - a rise of 89 per cent.

The number of people injured or killed by guns, excluding air weapons, has increased from 864 in 1998/99 to a provisional figure of 1,760 in 2008/09, an increase of 104 per cent .




========



Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show

Ministers will also be concerned that the country is becoming increasingly violent in nature, with gun crime rising 23% to 6,375 offences, largely driven by an increase in the use of handguns.

=========



Gun crime in London increases by 42% - BBC News

Gun crime offences in London surged by 42% in the last year, according to official statistics.

Top trauma surgeon reveals shocking extent of London’s gun crime

A leading trauma surgeon has told how the number of patients treated for gunshot injuries at a major London hospital has doubled in the last five years.

----

He said the hospital’s major trauma centre had seen a bigger rise in gunshot injuries compared to knife wounds and that the average age of victims was getting younger.

-----

Last year, gun crime offences in London increased for a third year running and by 42 per cent, from 1,793 offences in 2015/16 to 2,544 offences in 2016/17. Police have seized 635 guns off the streets so far this year.

Dr Griffiths, who also teaches medical students, said: “Our numbers of victims of gun injury have doubled [since 2012]. Gunshot injuries represent about 2.5 per cent of our penetrating trauma.

-----

Dr Griffiths said the average age of gun crime victims needing treatment at the hospital had decreased from 25 to the mid to late teens since 2012.

He added that medics at the Barts Health hospital’s major trauma centre in Whitechapel had seen a bigger rise in patients with gun injuries rather than knife wounds and that most were caused by pistols or shotguns.

Met Police commander Jim Stokley, who was also invited to speak at the meeting, said that handguns and shotguns were the weapons of choice and that 46 per cent of London’s gun crime discharges were gang-related.

He said: “We believe that a lot of it is associated with the drugs trade, and by that I mean people dealing drugs at street level and disagreements between different gangs.”

Violent crime on the rise in every corner of the country, figures suggest

But analysis of the figures force by force, showed the full extent of the problem, with only one constabulary, Nottinghamshire, recording a reduction in violent offences.

The vast majority of police forces actually witnessed double digit rises in violent crime, with Northumbria posting a 95 per cent increase year on year.

Of the other forces, Durham Police recorded a 73 per cent rise; West Yorkshire was up 48 per cent; Avon and Somerset 45 per cent; Dorset 39 per cent and Warwickshire 37 per cent.

Elsewhere Humberside, South Yorkshire, Staffordshire, Essex, Hertfordshire, Kent, Wiltshire and Dyfed Powys all saw violence rise by more than a quarter year on year.
I've read your links. Absolutely ZERO of them claim that there is ANY correlation between gun control and the increase in crime. They rather site an increase in gang violence and a decrease in the amount of police officers. So how does this help you?


And you miss the most important points...

1) This disproves your core argument..... taking guns away from law abiding gun owners does not lower the gun crime rate.
.....as the link to the United States shows.....more guns in the hands of law abiding gun owners does not increase the gun crime rate....

So you are wrong there.

2) Criminals in Britain get guns easily.....they are an island, they have banned and confiscated guns, and their gun crime rates are going up, not down....showing gun control does not lower the gun crime rate.
1) It does.America doesn’t have more crime than other rich countries. It just has more guns.
2) Again prove that the crime rates going up has ANYTHING to do with the lack of gun control.

Repeating an argument doesn't make it true. PROVE IT


2) isn't my argument.....that is the argument of you gun grabbers....the truth is that gun control does not lower the crime rate, the gun crime rate or the murder rate......
 
Hmms, so before last year England didn't have strict gun control? Your stats, which you didn't source btw all speak about an increase this year. How does that help your argument?

It has been going up since the ban.....it jumped 44% in London just last year.....

Here.....notice that some of these stats go back to the 10 years just after they banned and confiscated guns....

Culture of violence: Gun crime goes up by 89% in a decade | Daily Mail Online

The latest Government figures show that the total number of firearm offences in England and Wales has increased from 5,209 in 1998/99 to 9,865 last year - a rise of 89 per cent.

The number of people injured or killed by guns, excluding air weapons, has increased from 864 in 1998/99 to a provisional figure of 1,760 in 2008/09, an increase of 104 per cent .




========



Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show

Ministers will also be concerned that the country is becoming increasingly violent in nature, with gun crime rising 23% to 6,375 offences, largely driven by an increase in the use of handguns.

=========



Gun crime in London increases by 42% - BBC News

Gun crime offences in London surged by 42% in the last year, according to official statistics.

Top trauma surgeon reveals shocking extent of London’s gun crime

A leading trauma surgeon has told how the number of patients treated for gunshot injuries at a major London hospital has doubled in the last five years.

----

He said the hospital’s major trauma centre had seen a bigger rise in gunshot injuries compared to knife wounds and that the average age of victims was getting younger.

-----

Last year, gun crime offences in London increased for a third year running and by 42 per cent, from 1,793 offences in 2015/16 to 2,544 offences in 2016/17. Police have seized 635 guns off the streets so far this year.

Dr Griffiths, who also teaches medical students, said: “Our numbers of victims of gun injury have doubled [since 2012]. Gunshot injuries represent about 2.5 per cent of our penetrating trauma.

-----

Dr Griffiths said the average age of gun crime victims needing treatment at the hospital had decreased from 25 to the mid to late teens since 2012.

He added that medics at the Barts Health hospital’s major trauma centre in Whitechapel had seen a bigger rise in patients with gun injuries rather than knife wounds and that most were caused by pistols or shotguns.

Met Police commander Jim Stokley, who was also invited to speak at the meeting, said that handguns and shotguns were the weapons of choice and that 46 per cent of London’s gun crime discharges were gang-related.

He said: “We believe that a lot of it is associated with the drugs trade, and by that I mean people dealing drugs at street level and disagreements between different gangs.”

Violent crime on the rise in every corner of the country, figures suggest

But analysis of the figures force by force, showed the full extent of the problem, with only one constabulary, Nottinghamshire, recording a reduction in violent offences.

The vast majority of police forces actually witnessed double digit rises in violent crime, with Northumbria posting a 95 per cent increase year on year.

Of the other forces, Durham Police recorded a 73 per cent rise; West Yorkshire was up 48 per cent; Avon and Somerset 45 per cent; Dorset 39 per cent and Warwickshire 37 per cent.

Elsewhere Humberside, South Yorkshire, Staffordshire, Essex, Hertfordshire, Kent, Wiltshire and Dyfed Powys all saw violence rise by more than a quarter year on year.
I've read your links. Absolutely ZERO of them claim that there is ANY correlation between gun control and the increase in crime. They rather site an increase in gang violence and a decrease in the amount of police officers. So how does this help you?


That's the whole point of the thread...…..gun control doesn't work
No gun control doesn't help in decreasing crime, it does help in reducing the amount of fatalities. Hence the reason it is a strawman argument to begin with. Show me one gun control advocate the says that controlling guns will STOP crime.


Let's look at accidental gun death...as more Americans not only own more guns, but over 17 million Americans are now carrying guns.....

https://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/leading_causes_death.html


2016 495
2015...489

2014.....486

2013 ..... 505
2012 ..... 548
2011 ..... 591
2010 ..... 606
2009 ..... 554
2008 ..... 592
2007..... 613
2006..... 642
2005 ..... 789
2004 ..... 649
2003 ..... 730
2002 ..... 762
2001 ..... 802
2000 ..... 776
1999 ..... 824
I'm sure it's the answer to A point. I just don't think it's an answer to this one.
At best it means that gun safety lessons have become more effective.
 
Hmms, so before last year England didn't have strict gun control? Your stats, which you didn't source btw all speak about an increase this year. How does that help your argument?

It has been going up since the ban.....it jumped 44% in London just last year.....

Here.....notice that some of these stats go back to the 10 years just after they banned and confiscated guns....

Culture of violence: Gun crime goes up by 89% in a decade | Daily Mail Online

The latest Government figures show that the total number of firearm offences in England and Wales has increased from 5,209 in 1998/99 to 9,865 last year - a rise of 89 per cent.

The number of people injured or killed by guns, excluding air weapons, has increased from 864 in 1998/99 to a provisional figure of 1,760 in 2008/09, an increase of 104 per cent .




========



Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show

Ministers will also be concerned that the country is becoming increasingly violent in nature, with gun crime rising 23% to 6,375 offences, largely driven by an increase in the use of handguns.

=========



Gun crime in London increases by 42% - BBC News

Gun crime offences in London surged by 42% in the last year, according to official statistics.

Top trauma surgeon reveals shocking extent of London’s gun crime

A leading trauma surgeon has told how the number of patients treated for gunshot injuries at a major London hospital has doubled in the last five years.

----

He said the hospital’s major trauma centre had seen a bigger rise in gunshot injuries compared to knife wounds and that the average age of victims was getting younger.

-----

Last year, gun crime offences in London increased for a third year running and by 42 per cent, from 1,793 offences in 2015/16 to 2,544 offences in 2016/17. Police have seized 635 guns off the streets so far this year.

Dr Griffiths, who also teaches medical students, said: “Our numbers of victims of gun injury have doubled [since 2012]. Gunshot injuries represent about 2.5 per cent of our penetrating trauma.

-----

Dr Griffiths said the average age of gun crime victims needing treatment at the hospital had decreased from 25 to the mid to late teens since 2012.

He added that medics at the Barts Health hospital’s major trauma centre in Whitechapel had seen a bigger rise in patients with gun injuries rather than knife wounds and that most were caused by pistols or shotguns.

Met Police commander Jim Stokley, who was also invited to speak at the meeting, said that handguns and shotguns were the weapons of choice and that 46 per cent of London’s gun crime discharges were gang-related.

He said: “We believe that a lot of it is associated with the drugs trade, and by that I mean people dealing drugs at street level and disagreements between different gangs.”

Violent crime on the rise in every corner of the country, figures suggest

But analysis of the figures force by force, showed the full extent of the problem, with only one constabulary, Nottinghamshire, recording a reduction in violent offences.

The vast majority of police forces actually witnessed double digit rises in violent crime, with Northumbria posting a 95 per cent increase year on year.

Of the other forces, Durham Police recorded a 73 per cent rise; West Yorkshire was up 48 per cent; Avon and Somerset 45 per cent; Dorset 39 per cent and Warwickshire 37 per cent.

Elsewhere Humberside, South Yorkshire, Staffordshire, Essex, Hertfordshire, Kent, Wiltshire and Dyfed Powys all saw violence rise by more than a quarter year on year.
I've read your links. Absolutely ZERO of them claim that there is ANY correlation between gun control and the increase in crime. They rather site an increase in gang violence and a decrease in the amount of police officers. So how does this help you?


That's the whole point of the thread...…..gun control doesn't work
No gun control doesn't help in decreasing crime, it does help in reducing the amount of fatalities. Hence the reason it is a strawman argument to begin with. Show me one gun control advocate the says that controlling guns will STOP crime.


Let's look at accidental gun death...as more Americans not only own more guns, but over 17 million Americans are now carrying guns.....

https://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/leading_causes_death.html


2016 495
2015...489

2014.....486

2013 ..... 505
2012 ..... 548
2011 ..... 591
2010 ..... 606
2009 ..... 554
2008 ..... 592
2007..... 613
2006..... 642
2005 ..... 789
2004 ..... 649
2003 ..... 730
2002 ..... 762
2001 ..... 802
2000 ..... 776
1999 ..... 824

Finally some data thank you. I hate it when people just fling shit out there like its fact, especially when its flat out WRONG! :eusa_clap: These people will go to the polls and vote for gun control being ignorant.
 
It has been going up since the ban.....it jumped 44% in London just last year.....

Here.....notice that some of these stats go back to the 10 years just after they banned and confiscated guns....

Culture of violence: Gun crime goes up by 89% in a decade | Daily Mail Online

The latest Government figures show that the total number of firearm offences in England and Wales has increased from 5,209 in 1998/99 to 9,865 last year - a rise of 89 per cent.

The number of people injured or killed by guns, excluding air weapons, has increased from 864 in 1998/99 to a provisional figure of 1,760 in 2008/09, an increase of 104 per cent .




========



Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show

Ministers will also be concerned that the country is becoming increasingly violent in nature, with gun crime rising 23% to 6,375 offences, largely driven by an increase in the use of handguns.

=========



Gun crime in London increases by 42% - BBC News

Gun crime offences in London surged by 42% in the last year, according to official statistics.

Top trauma surgeon reveals shocking extent of London’s gun crime

A leading trauma surgeon has told how the number of patients treated for gunshot injuries at a major London hospital has doubled in the last five years.

----

He said the hospital’s major trauma centre had seen a bigger rise in gunshot injuries compared to knife wounds and that the average age of victims was getting younger.

-----

Last year, gun crime offences in London increased for a third year running and by 42 per cent, from 1,793 offences in 2015/16 to 2,544 offences in 2016/17. Police have seized 635 guns off the streets so far this year.

Dr Griffiths, who also teaches medical students, said: “Our numbers of victims of gun injury have doubled [since 2012]. Gunshot injuries represent about 2.5 per cent of our penetrating trauma.

-----

Dr Griffiths said the average age of gun crime victims needing treatment at the hospital had decreased from 25 to the mid to late teens since 2012.

He added that medics at the Barts Health hospital’s major trauma centre in Whitechapel had seen a bigger rise in patients with gun injuries rather than knife wounds and that most were caused by pistols or shotguns.

Met Police commander Jim Stokley, who was also invited to speak at the meeting, said that handguns and shotguns were the weapons of choice and that 46 per cent of London’s gun crime discharges were gang-related.

He said: “We believe that a lot of it is associated with the drugs trade, and by that I mean people dealing drugs at street level and disagreements between different gangs.”

Violent crime on the rise in every corner of the country, figures suggest

But analysis of the figures force by force, showed the full extent of the problem, with only one constabulary, Nottinghamshire, recording a reduction in violent offences.

The vast majority of police forces actually witnessed double digit rises in violent crime, with Northumbria posting a 95 per cent increase year on year.

Of the other forces, Durham Police recorded a 73 per cent rise; West Yorkshire was up 48 per cent; Avon and Somerset 45 per cent; Dorset 39 per cent and Warwickshire 37 per cent.

Elsewhere Humberside, South Yorkshire, Staffordshire, Essex, Hertfordshire, Kent, Wiltshire and Dyfed Powys all saw violence rise by more than a quarter year on year.
I've read your links. Absolutely ZERO of them claim that there is ANY correlation between gun control and the increase in crime. They rather site an increase in gang violence and a decrease in the amount of police officers. So how does this help you?


That's the whole point of the thread...…..gun control doesn't work
No gun control doesn't help in decreasing crime, it does help in reducing the amount of fatalities. Hence the reason it is a strawman argument to begin with. Show me one gun control advocate the says that controlling guns will STOP crime.


Let's look at accidental gun death...as more Americans not only own more guns, but over 17 million Americans are now carrying guns.....

https://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/leading_causes_death.html


2016 495
2015...489

2014.....486

2013 ..... 505
2012 ..... 548
2011 ..... 591
2010 ..... 606
2009 ..... 554
2008 ..... 592
2007..... 613
2006..... 642
2005 ..... 789
2004 ..... 649
2003 ..... 730
2002 ..... 762
2001 ..... 802
2000 ..... 776
1999 ..... 824
I'm sure it's the answer to A point. I just don't think it's an answer to this one.
At best it means that gun safety lessons have become more effective.


Yes......it isn't the number of guns that causes gun death.....thanks for seeing the light...
 
I've read your links. Absolutely ZERO of them claim that there is ANY correlation between gun control and the increase in crime. They rather site an increase in gang violence and a decrease in the amount of police officers. So how does this help you?

Law abiding citizens will follow the laws and be unarmed. That makes them easy targets for criminals with guns, knives or superior physical force. It is really not a hard concept.
If that was true, the US would be the safest place on the planet which it simply isn't since it has the highest amount of guns per capita. It occupies the 35th spot on the place with the most crimes per capita. Crime Index by Country 2018


Wrong again.....you confuse gun ownership for the cause of violent crime...and you are just plain wrong....

according to you, our gun crime should have increased as more Americans own and carry guns....the exact opposite happened.......crime rates have to do with criminals engaging in crime....murder rates happen because criminals murder people...in Britain, they have increasing gun crime, but their gun murder rate isn't going up as fast...because their criminals shoot each other below the waist so they don't kill their victim......

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.
My point is that both are separate issues I don't try to make a correlation between crime and gun ownership you guys are. I've said it's a straw man argument several times now. When I drew the comparison I was trying to point out the folly of it. I do think there's a corralation between the amount of guns and gun fatalities
 
Look no further than London, England, where civilian firearm ownership is de facto banned. Heck, their dear leader had good common sense to ban not only firearms, but sharp, pointy objects as well.

Sorry, you just can't argue the good results, right?

Through March of 2018:
  • The murder rate is up 44 percent over the last twelve months
  • Violent crime is up 33% over the preceding twelve months
  • Home robbery is also up, by a third
  • Rape is up 18 percent

Guess those 100lb English ladies are finding the notion of fighting off a 250lb rapist with their fists to be a bit of a sticky wicket???

But hey, but at least there's no gun or knife crime, right?
  • Knife crime up 21 percent
  • Shootings up 23 percent from the previous year
  • More

Hmm...

Well, we all know the only reason London sees this crime is because of all the lax gun laws in nearly Indiana...

Oh, wait. Crap. Never mind.
Socialist Europe is a fucked up place, I see why your ancestors left that cesspool of piss and shit...
Everyone gets a participation trophy for being a fuck up there...
 
We can change human behavior when we put our mind to it. Look at smoking cigarettes. It doesn't happen overnight, but it can happen. Too many people don't care that in this country we are shooting each other at an abysmal rate. I don't understand that for the life of me. Why don't they care?
Plenty care. The reason nothing gets done is because gun manufacturing and sales are big business here. Money. The constant fear mongering and focus upon violent solutions being the only ones trickles (floods actually) straight down from the top. Hell, the vast majority of NRA members have supported popular gun controls measures for a long time now, but they are kept voiceless and unrepresented while those in charge keep encouraging all these willing tools to shill for them while laughing all the way to the bank. Year after year. Rinse and repeat. The root cause is always us literally letting those engorged with far, far more than enough continue calling the shots.
Well, I still have hope. Tobacco was Big Money at one time, too, and it was screeched from the rooftops that it would be the ruination of the south if Tobacco was held responsible for what it peddled. The south appear to be doing fine, and cigarette smoking is a whole lot less popular and socially acceptable than it was forty years ago.

You are talking apples and oranges.


Noooooo, she's talking cigarettes vs guns...…..When you control the smoke, usage goes down and if you control the guns, violence will go down.....I think is her point.

But in reality it really doesn't because 'smoking whether cigarettes or vapes will still happen and same with guns & violence. If you take away the guns, violence will still happen. :thup:

Wrong, when guns were banned in the UK murders did not go down. In fact there were more murders in London than NY City, now they are banning knives lol.

Yeah, that's what I said.....well except for the knives part :04:
 
You won't change human behavior by banning guns.
We can change human behavior when we put our mind to it. Look at smoking cigarettes. It doesn't happen overnight, but it can happen. Too many people don't care that in this country we are shooting each other at an abysmal rate. I don't understand that for the life of me. Why don't they care?
Lol
Shit for brains, we have much bigger fish to fry. Take your pick...
2018 Real Time Death Statistics in America

Medical errors are approaching 95,000 so far this year, that is murder why don’t you address that, you fucking hypocrite.

Personal firearm ownership is none of your fucking business.
 
Hmms, so before last year England didn't have strict gun control? Your stats, which you didn't source btw all speak about an increase this year. How does that help your argument?

It has been going up since the ban.....it jumped 44% in London just last year.....

Here.....notice that some of these stats go back to the 10 years just after they banned and confiscated guns....

Culture of violence: Gun crime goes up by 89% in a decade | Daily Mail Online

The latest Government figures show that the total number of firearm offences in England and Wales has increased from 5,209 in 1998/99 to 9,865 last year - a rise of 89 per cent.

The number of people injured or killed by guns, excluding air weapons, has increased from 864 in 1998/99 to a provisional figure of 1,760 in 2008/09, an increase of 104 per cent .




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Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show

Ministers will also be concerned that the country is becoming increasingly violent in nature, with gun crime rising 23% to 6,375 offences, largely driven by an increase in the use of handguns.

=========



Gun crime in London increases by 42% - BBC News

Gun crime offences in London surged by 42% in the last year, according to official statistics.

Top trauma surgeon reveals shocking extent of London’s gun crime

A leading trauma surgeon has told how the number of patients treated for gunshot injuries at a major London hospital has doubled in the last five years.

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He said the hospital’s major trauma centre had seen a bigger rise in gunshot injuries compared to knife wounds and that the average age of victims was getting younger.

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Last year, gun crime offences in London increased for a third year running and by 42 per cent, from 1,793 offences in 2015/16 to 2,544 offences in 2016/17. Police have seized 635 guns off the streets so far this year.

Dr Griffiths, who also teaches medical students, said: “Our numbers of victims of gun injury have doubled [since 2012]. Gunshot injuries represent about 2.5 per cent of our penetrating trauma.

-----

Dr Griffiths said the average age of gun crime victims needing treatment at the hospital had decreased from 25 to the mid to late teens since 2012.

He added that medics at the Barts Health hospital’s major trauma centre in Whitechapel had seen a bigger rise in patients with gun injuries rather than knife wounds and that most were caused by pistols or shotguns.

Met Police commander Jim Stokley, who was also invited to speak at the meeting, said that handguns and shotguns were the weapons of choice and that 46 per cent of London’s gun crime discharges were gang-related.

He said: “We believe that a lot of it is associated with the drugs trade, and by that I mean people dealing drugs at street level and disagreements between different gangs.”

Violent crime on the rise in every corner of the country, figures suggest

But analysis of the figures force by force, showed the full extent of the problem, with only one constabulary, Nottinghamshire, recording a reduction in violent offences.

The vast majority of police forces actually witnessed double digit rises in violent crime, with Northumbria posting a 95 per cent increase year on year.

Of the other forces, Durham Police recorded a 73 per cent rise; West Yorkshire was up 48 per cent; Avon and Somerset 45 per cent; Dorset 39 per cent and Warwickshire 37 per cent.

Elsewhere Humberside, South Yorkshire, Staffordshire, Essex, Hertfordshire, Kent, Wiltshire and Dyfed Powys all saw violence rise by more than a quarter year on year.
I've read your links. Absolutely ZERO of them claim that there is ANY correlation between gun control and the increase in crime. They rather site an increase in gang violence and a decrease in the amount of police officers. So how does this help you?


And you miss the most important points...

1) This disproves your core argument..... taking guns away from law abiding gun owners does not lower the gun crime rate.
.....as the link to the United States shows.....more guns in the hands of law abiding gun owners does not increase the gun crime rate....

So you are wrong there.

2) Criminals in Britain get guns easily.....they are an island, they have banned and confiscated guns, and their gun crime rates are going up, not down....showing gun control does not lower the gun crime rate.
1) It does.America doesn’t have more crime than other rich countries. It just has more guns.
2) Again prove that the crime rates going up has ANYTHING to do with the lack of gun control.

Repeating an argument doesn't make it true. PROVE IT


2) isn't my argument.....that is the argument of you gun grabbers....the truth is that gun control does not lower the crime rate, the gun crime rate or the murder rate......
It does lower the gun crime rate and the murder rate. just not the overall crime rate. Of all developed nations the US ranks the highest. It's or an insane coincedence or logical thinking. More guns per capita makes for more gun crimes per capita.Gun Violence: How The U.S. Compares With Other Countries. For instance even if the UK DOUBLED it's gun crime deaths 5 times over it would still not hold a candle to that of the US
 
You won't change human behavior by banning guns.
We can change human behavior when we put our mind to it. Look at smoking cigarettes. It doesn't happen overnight, but it can happen. Too many people don't care that in this country we are shooting each other at an abysmal rate. I don't understand that for the life of me. Why don't they care?
Plenty care. The reason nothing gets done is because gun manufacturing and sales are big business here. Money. The constant fear mongering and focus upon violent solutions being the only ones trickles (floods actually) straight down from the top. Hell, the vast majority of NRA members have supported popular gun controls measures for a long time now, but they are kept voiceless and unrepresented while those in charge keep encouraging all these willing tools to shill for them while laughing all the way to the bank. Year after year. Rinse and repeat. The root cause is always us literally letting those engorged with far, far more than enough continue calling the shots.
Well, I still have hope. Tobacco was Big Money at one time, too, and it was screeched from the rooftops that it would be the ruination of the south if Tobacco was held responsible for what it peddled. The south appear to be doing fine, and cigarette smoking is a whole lot less popular and socially acceptable than it was forty years ago.
You sound very Orwellian, the collective has no idea what’s best for the individual. So fuck your village
 
Look no further than London, England, where civilian firearm ownership is de facto banned. Heck, their dear leader had good common sense to ban not only firearms, but sharp, pointy objects as well.

Sorry, you just can't argue the good results, right?

Through March of 2018:
  • The murder rate is up 44 percent over the last twelve months
  • Violent crime is up 33% over the preceding twelve months
  • Home robbery is also up, by a third
  • Rape is up 18 percent

Guess those 100lb English ladies are finding the notion of fighting off a 250lb rapist with their fists to be a bit of a sticky wicket???

But hey, but at least there's no gun or knife crime, right?
  • Knife crime up 21 percent
  • Shootings up 23 percent from the previous year
  • More

Hmm...

Well, we all know the only reason London sees this crime is because of all the lax gun laws in nearly Indiana...

Oh, wait. Crap. Never mind.
Socialist Europe is a fucked up place, I see why your ancestors left that cesspool of piss and shit...
Everyone gets a participation trophy for being a fuck up there...
Ever been to Europe? My guess is no.
 
I've read your links. Absolutely ZERO of them claim that there is ANY correlation between gun control and the increase in crime. They rather site an increase in gang violence and a decrease in the amount of police officers. So how does this help you?


That's the whole point of the thread...…..gun control doesn't work
No gun control doesn't help in decreasing crime, it does help in reducing the amount of fatalities. Hence the reason it is a strawman argument to begin with. Show me one gun control advocate the says that controlling guns will STOP crime.


Let's look at accidental gun death...as more Americans not only own more guns, but over 17 million Americans are now carrying guns.....

https://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/leading_causes_death.html


2016 495
2015...489

2014.....486

2013 ..... 505
2012 ..... 548
2011 ..... 591
2010 ..... 606
2009 ..... 554
2008 ..... 592
2007..... 613
2006..... 642
2005 ..... 789
2004 ..... 649
2003 ..... 730
2002 ..... 762
2001 ..... 802
2000 ..... 776
1999 ..... 824
I'm sure it's the answer to A point. I just don't think it's an answer to this one.
At best it means that gun safety lessons have become more effective.


Yes......it isn't the number of guns that causes gun death.....thanks for seeing the light...
So why do ALL developed nations have a LOWER amount of gun deaths per capita?
 
Look no further than London, England, where civilian firearm ownership is de facto banned. Heck, their dear leader had good common sense to ban not only firearms, but sharp, pointy objects as well.

Sorry, you just can't argue the good results, right?

Through March of 2018:
  • The murder rate is up 44 percent over the last twelve months
  • Violent crime is up 33% over the preceding twelve months
  • Home robbery is also up, by a third
  • Rape is up 18 percent

Guess those 100lb English ladies are finding the notion of fighting off a 250lb rapist with their fists to be a bit of a sticky wicket???

But hey, but at least there's no gun or knife crime, right?
  • Knife crime up 21 percent
  • Shootings up 23 percent from the previous year
  • More

Hmm...

Well, we all know the only reason London sees this crime is because of all the lax gun laws in nearly Indiana...

Oh, wait. Crap. Never mind.
Socialist Europe is a fucked up place, I see why your ancestors left that cesspool of piss and shit...
Everyone gets a participation trophy for being a fuck up there...
Ever been to Europe? My guess is no.
Actually I’ve been there a number of times, far too much socialism for my liking.
I’ve been to a few gun manufacturing facilities over the years.
They hate firearms over there but they love the money they get from taxing the manufacturing of them over there… obviously that makes them hypocrites.
 
That's the whole point of the thread...…..gun control doesn't work
No gun control doesn't help in decreasing crime, it does help in reducing the amount of fatalities. Hence the reason it is a strawman argument to begin with. Show me one gun control advocate the says that controlling guns will STOP crime.


Let's look at accidental gun death...as more Americans not only own more guns, but over 17 million Americans are now carrying guns.....

https://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/leading_causes_death.html


2016 495
2015...489

2014.....486

2013 ..... 505
2012 ..... 548
2011 ..... 591
2010 ..... 606
2009 ..... 554
2008 ..... 592
2007..... 613
2006..... 642
2005 ..... 789
2004 ..... 649
2003 ..... 730
2002 ..... 762
2001 ..... 802
2000 ..... 776
1999 ..... 824
I'm sure it's the answer to A point. I just don't think it's an answer to this one.
At best it means that gun safety lessons have become more effective.


Yes......it isn't the number of guns that causes gun death.....thanks for seeing the light...
So why do ALL developed nations have a LOWER amount of gun deaths per capita?
Suicides do not count...
 
Look no further than London, England, where civilian firearm ownership is de facto banned. Heck, their dear leader had good common sense to ban not only firearms, but sharp, pointy objects as well.

Sorry, you just can't argue the good results, right?

Through March of 2018:
  • The murder rate is up 44 percent over the last twelve months
  • Violent crime is up 33% over the preceding twelve months
  • Home robbery is also up, by a third
  • Rape is up 18 percent

Guess those 100lb English ladies are finding the notion of fighting off a 250lb rapist with their fists to be a bit of a sticky wicket???

But hey, but at least there's no gun or knife crime, right?
  • Knife crime up 21 percent
  • Shootings up 23 percent from the previous year
  • More

Hmm...

Well, we all know the only reason London sees this crime is because of all the lax gun laws in nearly Indiana...

Oh, wait. Crap. Never mind.
Socialist Europe is a fucked up place, I see why your ancestors left that cesspool of piss and shit...
Everyone gets a participation trophy for being a fuck up there...
Ever been to Europe? My guess is no.
Actually I’ve been there a number of times, far too much socialism for my liking.
I’ve been to a few gun manufacturing facilities over the years.
They hate firearms over there but they love the money they get from taxing the manufacturing of them over there… obviously that makes them hypocrites.
I like it fine here. And before you say it, yes I have a job, I actually work on average a 12 hour shift and about 20 weekends a year on top of that. As to hypocrisy. Sure we tax a lot. On the other hand if tomorrow something happens to me and I can't work. My kid can go to college still and I won't have to worry about feeding my family. Oh the horror.
 
No gun control doesn't help in decreasing crime, it does help in reducing the amount of fatalities. Hence the reason it is a strawman argument to begin with. Show me one gun control advocate the says that controlling guns will STOP crime.


Let's look at accidental gun death...as more Americans not only own more guns, but over 17 million Americans are now carrying guns.....

https://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/leading_causes_death.html


2016 495
2015...489

2014.....486

2013 ..... 505
2012 ..... 548
2011 ..... 591
2010 ..... 606
2009 ..... 554
2008 ..... 592
2007..... 613
2006..... 642
2005 ..... 789
2004 ..... 649
2003 ..... 730
2002 ..... 762
2001 ..... 802
2000 ..... 776
1999 ..... 824
I'm sure it's the answer to A point. I just don't think it's an answer to this one.
At best it means that gun safety lessons have become more effective.


Yes......it isn't the number of guns that causes gun death.....thanks for seeing the light...
So why do ALL developed nations have a LOWER amount of gun deaths per capita?
Suicides do not count...

I don't see why they don't count but it still doesn't make an iota of difference to the argument. The US comfortably leads in INTENTIONAL gun deaths too, among developed nations.
 
Last edited:
Let's look at accidental gun death...as more Americans not only own more guns, but over 17 million Americans are now carrying guns.....

https://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/leading_causes_death.html


2016 495
2015...489

2014.....486

2013 ..... 505
2012 ..... 548
2011 ..... 591
2010 ..... 606
2009 ..... 554
2008 ..... 592
2007..... 613
2006..... 642
2005 ..... 789
2004 ..... 649
2003 ..... 730
2002 ..... 762
2001 ..... 802
2000 ..... 776
1999 ..... 824
I'm sure it's the answer to A point. I just don't think it's an answer to this one.
At best it means that gun safety lessons have become more effective.


Yes......it isn't the number of guns that causes gun death.....thanks for seeing the light...
So why do ALL developed nations have a LOWER amount of gun deaths per capita?
Suicides do not count...

I don't see why they don't count but it still doesn't make an iota of difference to the argument. The US comfortably leads in INTENTIONAL gun deaths too, among developed nations.


And the UK gun ban led to them leading in knifed to death deaths, do you think you can stop people from killing by banning their method? :itsok:
 

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