Gun control working!

[eflatminor]

Look no further than London, England, where civilian firearm ownership is de facto banned. Heck, their dear leader had good common sense to ban not only firearms, but sharp, pointy objects as well.

Sorry, you just can't argue the good results, right?

Through March of 2018:

• The murder rate is up 44 percent over the last twelve months
• Violent crime is up 33% over the preceding twelve months
• Home robbery is also up, by a third
• Rape is up 18 percent

Guess those 100lb English ladies are finding the notion of fighting off a 250lb rapist with their fists to be a bit of a sticky wicket???

But hey, but at least there's no gun or knife crime, right?

• Knife crime up 21 percent
• Shootings up 23 percent from the previous year
• More

Hmm...

Well, we all know the only reason London sees this crime is because of all the lax gun laws in nearly Indiana...

Oh, wait. Crap. Never mind.

 

[Confounding]

Wait, criminals are obtaining and using weapons despite weapon control laws? Who could have predicted that?

 

[BluesLegend]

You won't change human behavior by banning guns.

 

[forkup]

Look no further than London, England, where civilian firearm ownership is de facto banned. Heck, their dear leader had good common sense to ban not only firearms, but sharp, pointy objects as well.

Sorry, you just can't argue the good results, right?

Through March of 2018:

• The murder rate is up 44 percent over the last twelve months
• Violent crime is up 33% over the preceding twelve months
• Home robbery is also up, by a third
• Rape is up 18 percent

Guess those 100lb English ladies are finding the notion of fighting off a 250lb rapist with their fists to be a bit of a sticky wicket???

But hey, but at least there's no gun or knife crime, right?

• Knife crime up 21 percent
• Shootings up 23 percent from the previous year
• More

Hmm...

Well, we all know the only reason London sees this crime is because of all the lax gun laws in nearly Indiana...

Oh, wait. Crap. Never mind.

Hmms, so before last year England didn't have strict gun control? Your stats, which you didn't source btw all speak about an increase this year. How does that help your argument?

 

[saveliberty]

Look no further than London, England, where civilian firearm ownership is de facto banned. Heck, their dear leader had good common sense to ban not only firearms, but sharp, pointy objects as well.

Sorry, you just can't argue the good results, right?

Through March of 2018:

• The murder rate is up 44 percent over the last twelve months
• Violent crime is up 33% over the preceding twelve months
• Home robbery is also up, by a third
• Rape is up 18 percent

Guess those 100lb English ladies are finding the notion of fighting off a 250lb rapist with their fists to be a bit of a sticky wicket???

But hey, but at least there's no gun or knife crime, right?

• Knife crime up 21 percent
• Shootings up 23 percent from the previous year
• More

Hmm...

Well, we all know the only reason London sees this crime is because of all the lax gun laws in nearly Indiana...

Oh, wait. Crap. Never mind.

Hmms, so before last year England didn't have strict gun control? Your stats, which you didn't source btw all speak about an increase this year. How does that help your argument?

They added new laws, try to keep up.

 

[Confounding]

Look no further than London, England, where civilian firearm ownership is de facto banned. Heck, their dear leader had good common sense to ban not only firearms, but sharp, pointy objects as well.

Sorry, you just can't argue the good results, right?

Through March of 2018:

• The murder rate is up 44 percent over the last twelve months
• Violent crime is up 33% over the preceding twelve months
• Home robbery is also up, by a third
• Rape is up 18 percent

Guess those 100lb English ladies are finding the notion of fighting off a 250lb rapist with their fists to be a bit of a sticky wicket???

But hey, but at least there's no gun or knife crime, right?

• Knife crime up 21 percent
• Shootings up 23 percent from the previous year
• More

Hmm...

Well, we all know the only reason London sees this crime is because of all the lax gun laws in nearly Indiana...

Oh, wait. Crap. Never mind.

Hmms, so before last year England didn't have strict gun control? Your stats, which you didn't source btw all speak about an increase this year. How does that help your argument?

Gun control is in full swing and the situation is not improving. The opposite in fact.

 

[forkup]

Look no further than London, England, where civilian firearm ownership is de facto banned. Heck, their dear leader had good common sense to ban not only firearms, but sharp, pointy objects as well.

Sorry, you just can't argue the good results, right?

Through March of 2018:

• The murder rate is up 44 percent over the last twelve months
• Violent crime is up 33% over the preceding twelve months
• Home robbery is also up, by a third
• Rape is up 18 percent

Guess those 100lb English ladies are finding the notion of fighting off a 250lb rapist with their fists to be a bit of a sticky wicket???

But hey, but at least there's no gun or knife crime, right?

• Knife crime up 21 percent
• Shootings up 23 percent from the previous year
• More

Hmm...

Well, we all know the only reason London sees this crime is because of all the lax gun laws in nearly Indiana...

Oh, wait. Crap. Never mind.

Hmms, so before last year England didn't have strict gun control? Your stats, which you didn't source btw all speak about an increase this year. How does that help your argument?

They added new laws, try to keep up.

Sure, what laws? How do they correlate to the statistics put up? How do they stack up against the rates in the US and why pick only the stats for a city and not for England? Oh and what's the source of these statistics. See one can prove anything by sufficiently cherry picking statistics, or for that matter lie about them by not sourcing.

 

[OldLady]

You won't change human behavior by banning guns.

We can change human behavior when we put our mind to it. Look at smoking cigarettes. It doesn't happen overnight, but it can happen. Too many people don't care that in this country we are shooting each other at an abysmal rate. I don't understand that for the life of me. Why don't they care?

 

[forkup]

Look no further than London, England, where civilian firearm ownership is de facto banned. Heck, their dear leader had good common sense to ban not only firearms, but sharp, pointy objects as well.

Sorry, you just can't argue the good results, right?

Through March of 2018:

• The murder rate is up 44 percent over the last twelve months
• Violent crime is up 33% over the preceding twelve months
• Home robbery is also up, by a third
• Rape is up 18 percent

Guess those 100lb English ladies are finding the notion of fighting off a 250lb rapist with their fists to be a bit of a sticky wicket???

But hey, but at least there's no gun or knife crime, right?

• Knife crime up 21 percent
• Shootings up 23 percent from the previous year
• More

Hmm...

Well, we all know the only reason London sees this crime is because of all the lax gun laws in nearly Indiana...

Oh, wait. Crap. Never mind.

Hmms, so before last year England didn't have strict gun control? Your stats, which you didn't source btw all speak about an increase this year. How does that help your argument?

Gun control is in full swing and the situation is not improving. The opposite in fact.

Prove that it is a consequence of gun control and not another reason that crime in London is increasing? I've found that a better correlation for the increase in crime rates can usually be found in a downturn in the economic situation or in the case for something like a city a simple statistically anomaly, since the base numbers are small so a few incidents can skew the numbers. Or a number of different reasons like this one Budget cuts are driving violent crime, says Britain's most senior police officer

 

[Confounding]

Prove that it is a consequence of gun control

I'm not even going that far with it. I'm just pointing out that all the regulations you could ever ask for are in place yet the situation there is getting worse. The point is gun control doesn't stop criminals from committing crime. It just makes it harder for everyday people to fight back.

 

[saveliberty]

Sure, what laws? How do they correlate to the statistics put up? How do they stack up against the rates in the US and why pick only the stats for a city and not for England? Oh and what's the source of these statistics. See one can prove anything by sufficiently cherry picking statistics, or for that matter lie about them by not sourcing.

So you studied this carefully and found no such stats or laws? Seems like you are the one making lies by suggesting the stats given do not exist.

 

[saveliberty]

Prove that it is a consequence of gun control and not another reason that crime in London is increasing? I've found that a better correlation for the increase in crime rates can usually be found in a downturn in the economic situation or in the case for something like a city a simple statistically anomaly, since the base numbers are small so a few incidents can skew the numbers. Or a number of different reasons like this one Budget cuts are driving violent crime, says Britain's most senior police officer

Oh look, you DID know about the increase. Lair.

The bloodshed came in the wake of official statistics that revealed a 22 per cent rise in knife crime across England and Wales, with the tide of violence turning scrutiny on reductions in police funding and the number of officers.

The police say funding, but the government says this:

The reasons behind rising violence have been the subject of fierce debate. A report by the government cited drug dealing and social media as key drivers last month.

...all from your source....

 

[forkup]

Prove that it is a consequence of gun control

I'm not even going that far with it. I'm just pointing out that all the regulations you could ever ask for are in place yet the situation there is getting worse. The point is gun control doesn't stop criminals from committing crime. It just makes it harder for everyday people to fight back.

Nobody EVER claimed that gun control can make crime disappear. It's the favorite straw man argument employed in this debate. Gun control at best can mitigate SOME of the consequences of SOME crimes. I've yet to see any actual research that shows that owning a gun has ANY effect on the amount of crimes committed. There is however ample evidence of the LACK of gun control having a negative effect on the amount of fatalities by crime. The US has the highest gun ownership per capita in the world yet surprisingly enough it also has the highest incarceration rate of that Western World so your argument falls flat. Estimated number of guns per capita by country - Wikipedia
List of countries by incarceration rate - Wikipedia

 

[Confounding]

Prove that it is a consequence of gun control

I'm not even going that far with it. I'm just pointing out that all the regulations you could ever ask for are in place yet the situation there is getting worse. The point is gun control doesn't stop criminals from committing crime. It just makes it harder for everyday people to fight back.

Nobody EVER claimed that gun control can make crime disappear. It's the favorite straw man argument employed in this debate. Gun control at best can mitigate SOME of the consequences of SOME crimes. I've yet to see any actual research that shows that owning a gun has ANY effect on the amount of crimes committed. There is however ample evidence of the LACK of gun control having a negative effect on the amount of fatalities by crime. The US has the highest gun ownership per capita in the world yet surprisingly enough it also has the highest incarceration rate of that Western World so your argument falls flat. Estimated number of guns per capita by country - Wikipedia
List of countries by incarceration rate - Wikipedia

We have the highest incarceration rates in the world because of the war on drugs and systemic racism, not because a bunch of people own guns. If we want to have less people in prison we should create a situation where there isn't a monetary incentive to put people behind bars for nonviolent crimes.

 

[forkup]

Prove that it is a consequence of gun control and not another reason that crime in London is increasing? I've found that a better correlation for the increase in crime rates can usually be found in a downturn in the economic situation or in the case for something like a city a simple statistically anomaly, since the base numbers are small so a few incidents can skew the numbers. Or a number of different reasons like this one Budget cuts are driving violent crime, says Britain's most senior police officer

Oh look, you DID know about the increase. Lair.

The bloodshed came in the wake of official statistics that revealed a 22 per cent rise in knife crime across England and Wales, with the tide of violence turning scrutiny on reductions in police funding and the number of officers.

The police say funding, but the government says this:

The reasons behind rising violence have been the subject of fierce debate. A report by the government cited drug dealing and social media as key drivers last month.

...all from your source....

I have Google you know. If somebody doesn't know something you CAN look it up. Something I wouldn't have had to do if YOU would have sourced your OP, something you still haven't done. As to the rest you know what MY source didn't say. Oh it's the fault of gun control, something that does seem to be your argument.

 

[saveliberty]

Nobody EVER claimed that gun control can make crime disappear. It's the favorite straw man argument employed in this debate. Gun control at best can mitigate SOME of the consequences of SOME crimes. I've yet to see any actual research that shows that owning a gun has ANY effect on the amount of crimes committed. There is however ample evidence of the LACK of gun control having a negative effect on the amount of fatalities by crime. The US has the highest gun ownership per capita in the world yet surprisingly enough it also has the highest incarceration rate of that Western World so your argument falls flat. Estimated number of guns per capita by country - Wikipedia
List of countries by incarceration rate - Wikipedia

All that proves is we can catch them. Most likely due to guns.

 

[forkup]

Prove that it is a consequence of gun control

I'm not even going that far with it. I'm just pointing out that all the regulations you could ever ask for are in place yet the situation there is getting worse. The point is gun control doesn't stop criminals from committing crime. It just makes it harder for everyday people to fight back.

Nobody EVER claimed that gun control can make crime disappear. It's the favorite straw man argument employed in this debate. Gun control at best can mitigate SOME of the consequences of SOME crimes. I've yet to see any actual research that shows that owning a gun has ANY effect on the amount of crimes committed. There is however ample evidence of the LACK of gun control having a negative effect on the amount of fatalities by crime. The US has the highest gun ownership per capita in the world yet surprisingly enough it also has the highest incarceration rate of that Western World so your argument falls flat. Estimated number of guns per capita by country - Wikipedia
List of countries by incarceration rate - Wikipedia

We have the highest incarceration rates in the world because of the war on drugs and systemic racism, not because a bunch of people own guns.

So you acknowledge that using the fact that people commit crimes isn't affected by gun control? Good we are getting somewhere. So if you acknowledge that, doesn't limiting guns make sense since it does decrease the amount of fatalities?

 

[saveliberty]

I have Google you know. If somebody doesn't know something you CAN look it up. Something I wouldn't have had to do if YOU would have sourced your link, something you still haven't done. As to the rest you know what MY source didn't say. Oh it's the fault of gun control, something that does seem to be your argument.

I didn't write the post you claim I did liar. You are confused as usual. Why would a liberal government admit their gun controls were not working? That same government has problems with a police data base that can profile the criminals. Care to guess what group that is?

 

[2aguy]

Look no further than London, England, where civilian firearm ownership is de facto banned. Heck, their dear leader had good common sense to ban not only firearms, but sharp, pointy objects as well.

Sorry, you just can't argue the good results, right?

Through March of 2018:

• The murder rate is up 44 percent over the last twelve months
• Violent crime is up 33% over the preceding twelve months
• Home robbery is also up, by a third
• Rape is up 18 percent

Guess those 100lb English ladies are finding the notion of fighting off a 250lb rapist with their fists to be a bit of a sticky wicket???

But hey, but at least there's no gun or knife crime, right?

• Knife crime up 21 percent
• Shootings up 23 percent from the previous year
• More

Hmm...

Well, we all know the only reason London sees this crime is because of all the lax gun laws in nearly Indiana...

Oh, wait. Crap. Never mind.

Hmms, so before last year England didn't have strict gun control? Your stats, which you didn't source btw all speak about an increase this year. How does that help your argument?

It has been going up since the ban.....it jumped 44% in London just last year.....

Here.....notice that some of these stats go back to the 10 years just after they banned and confiscated guns....


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1223193/Culture-violence-Gun-crime-goes-89-decade.html

The latest Government figures show that the total number of firearm offences in England and Wales has increased from 5,209 in 1998/99 to 9,865 last year - a rise of 89 per cent.

The number of people injured or killed by guns, excluding air weapons, has increased from 864 in 1998/99 to a provisional figure of 1,760 in 2008/09, an increase of 104 per cent .




========



Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show

Ministers will also be concerned that the country is becoming increasingly violent in nature, with gun crime rising 23% to 6,375 offences, largely driven by an increase in the use of handguns.

=========



Gun crime in London increases by 42% - BBC News

Gun crime offences in London surged by 42% in the last year, according to official statistics.

Top trauma surgeon reveals shocking extent of London’s gun crime

A leading trauma surgeon has told how the number of patients treated for gunshot injuries at a major London hospital has doubled in the last five years.

----

He said the hospital’s major trauma centre had seen a bigger rise in gunshot injuries compared to knife wounds and that the average age of victims was getting younger.

-----

Last year, gun crime offences in London increased for a third year running and by 42 per cent, from 1,793 offences in 2015/16 to 2,544 offences in 2016/17. Police have seized 635 guns off the streets so far this year.

Dr Griffiths, who also teaches medical students, said: “Our numbers of victims of gun injury have doubled [since 2012]. Gunshot injuries represent about 2.5 per cent of our penetrating trauma.

-----

Dr Griffiths said the average age of gun crime victims needing treatment at the hospital had decreased from 25 to the mid to late teens since 2012.

He added that medics at the Barts Health hospital’s major trauma centre in Whitechapel had seen a bigger rise in patients with gun injuries rather than knife wounds and that most were caused by pistols or shotguns.

Met Police commander Jim Stokley, who was also invited to speak at the meeting, said that handguns and shotguns were the weapons of choice and that 46 per cent of London’s gun crime discharges were gang-related.

He said: “We believe that a lot of it is associated with the drugs trade, and by that I mean people dealing drugs at street level and disagreements between different gangs.”

Violent crime on the rise in every corner of the country, figures suggest

But analysis of the figures force by force, showed the full extent of the problem, with only one constabulary, Nottinghamshire, recording a reduction in violent offences.

The vast majority of police forces actually witnessed double digit rises in violent crime, with Northumbria posting a 95 per cent increase year on year.

Of the other forces, Durham Police recorded a 73 per cent rise; West Yorkshire was up 48 per cent; Avon and Somerset 45 per cent; Dorset 39 per cent and Warwickshire 37 per cent.

Elsewhere Humberside, South Yorkshire, Staffordshire, Essex, Hertfordshire, Kent, Wiltshire and Dyfed Powys all saw violence rise by more than a quarter year on year.

 

[2aguy]

Look no further than London, England, where civilian firearm ownership is de facto banned. Heck, their dear leader had good common sense to ban not only firearms, but sharp, pointy objects as well.

Sorry, you just can't argue the good results, right?

Through March of 2018:

• The murder rate is up 44 percent over the last twelve months
• Violent crime is up 33% over the preceding twelve months
• Home robbery is also up, by a third
• Rape is up 18 percent

Guess those 100lb English ladies are finding the notion of fighting off a 250lb rapist with their fists to be a bit of a sticky wicket???

But hey, but at least there's no gun or knife crime, right?

• Knife crime up 21 percent
• Shootings up 23 percent from the previous year
• More

Hmm...

Well, we all know the only reason London sees this crime is because of all the lax gun laws in nearly Indiana...

Oh, wait. Crap. Never mind.

Hmms, so before last year England didn't have strict gun control? Your stats, which you didn't source btw all speak about an increase this year. How does that help your argument?

They added new laws, try to keep up.

Sure, what laws? How do they correlate to the statistics put up? How do they stack up against the rates in the US and why pick only the stats for a city and not for England? Oh and what's the source of these statistics. See one can prove anything by sufficiently cherry picking statistics, or for that matter lie about them by not sourcing.

Here...going back from immediatelly after the ban...going forward...


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1223193/Culture-violence-Gun-crime-goes-89-decade.html

10 years after the ban was enacted in Britain..and article from 2009...

The latest Government figures show that the total number of firearm offences in England and Wales has increased from 5,209 in 1998/99 to 9,865 last year - a rise of 89 per cent.

The number of people injured or killed by guns, excluding air weapons, has increased from 864 in 1998/99 to a provisional figure of 1,760 in 2008/09, an increase of 104 per cent .




========



Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show

Ministers will also be concerned that the country is becoming increasingly violent in nature, with gun crime rising 23% to 6,375 offences, largely driven by an increase in the use of handguns.

=========



Gun crime in London increases by 42% - BBC News

Gun crime offences in London surged by 42% in the last year, according to official statistics.

Top trauma surgeon reveals shocking extent of London’s gun crime

A leading trauma surgeon has told how the number of patients treated for gunshot injuries at a major London hospital has doubled in the last five years.

----

He said the hospital’s major trauma centre had seen a bigger rise in gunshot injuries compared to knife wounds and that the average age of victims was getting younger.

-----

Last year, gun crime offences in London increased for a third year running and by 42 per cent, from 1,793 offences in 2015/16 to 2,544 offences in 2016/17. Police have seized 635 guns off the streets so far this year.

Dr Griffiths, who also teaches medical students, said: “Our numbers of victims of gun injury have doubled [since 2012]. Gunshot injuries represent about 2.5 per cent of our penetrating trauma.

-----

Dr Griffiths said the average age of gun crime victims needing treatment at the hospital had decreased from 25 to the mid to late teens since 2012.

He added that medics at the Barts Health hospital’s major trauma centre in Whitechapel had seen a bigger rise in patients with gun injuries rather than knife wounds and that most were caused by pistols or shotguns.

Met Police commander Jim Stokley, who was also invited to speak at the meeting, said that handguns and shotguns were the weapons of choice and that 46 per cent of London’s gun crime discharges were gang-related.

He said: “We believe that a lot of it is associated with the drugs trade, and by that I mean people dealing drugs at street level and disagreements between different gangs.”

Violent crime on the rise in every corner of the country, figures suggest

But analysis of the figures force by force, showed the full extent of the problem, with only one constabulary, Nottinghamshire, recording a reduction in violent offences.

The vast majority of police forces actually witnessed double digit rises in violent crime, with Northumbria posting a 95 per cent increase year on year.

Of the other forces, Durham Police recorded a 73 per cent rise; West Yorkshire was up 48 per cent; Avon and Somerset 45 per cent; Dorset 39 per cent and Warwickshire 37 per cent.

Elsewhere Humberside, South Yorkshire, Staffordshire, Essex, Hertfordshire, Kent, Wiltshire and Dyfed Powys all saw violence rise by more than a quarter year on year.