Grisly cult death in Arizona

[Quantum Windbag]

Fracking right wing cults letting people die in the desert.

The rescuers had rappelled from a helicopter, swaying in the brisk April winds as they bore down on a cave 7,000 feet up in a rugged desert mountain on the edge of this rural hamlet. There had been a call for help. Inside, they found a jug with about an inch of water, browned by floating leaves and twigs. They found a woman, Christie McNally, thirsty and delirious. And they found her husband, Ian Thorson, dead.
The puzzle only deepened when the authorities realized that the couple had been expelled from a nearby Buddhist retreat in which dozens of adherents, living in rustic conditions, had pledged to meditate silently for three years, three months and three days. Their spiritual leader was a charismatic Princeton-educated monk whom some have accused of running the retreat as a cult.
Strange tales come out of the American desert: lost cities of gold, bandit ambushes, mirages and peyote shamans. To that long list can now be added the story of the holy retreat that led to an ugly death.
The retreat — in which adherents communicate only with pen and paper — was designed to allow participants to employ yoga and deep meditation to try to answer some of life’s most profound questions. Mostly, though, it has only raised more questions.
Was it a genuine spiritual enclave? What happened to drive Ms. McNally and Mr. Thorson out of the camp and into the wilderness? And just why, in a quest for enlightenment, did Mr. Thorson, a 38-year-old Stanford graduate, end up dead, apparently from exposure and dehydration, in a remote region of rattlesnakes and drug smugglers?

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/06/u...ds-in-a-grisly-death.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

This is a shocking story. It's been circulating in the Buddhist community.

I agree, it is shocking. The sad thing is that you are going to see it happening more often as Buddhism gets more popular and more people see it as a way to control others and make some money for themselves.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Maybe you should try thinking.

Maybe you should pay attention to everything in my posts.

I paid attention to this little gem.

Just a friendly jab at all the people who think Buddhism never kills people.

Good for you. Unfortunately, the guy who it is actually aimed at will probably miss it.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Fracking right wing cults letting people die in the desert.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/06/u...ds-in-a-grisly-death.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

This is a shocking story. It's been circulating in the Buddhist community.

I agree, it is shocking. The sad thing is that you are going to see it happening more often as Buddhism gets more popular and more people see it as a way to control others and make some money for themselves.

No, I don't agree with you that this kind of thing will happen more frequently because Buddhism is becoming more popular.

There are scandals that happen in every religion, Buddhism included.

We can find much to criticize in this particular case, but this did NOT happen because Buddhism is flawed as a religion. It happens due to karma and the times we live in.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

This is a shocking story. It's been circulating in the Buddhist community.

I agree, it is shocking. The sad thing is that you are going to see it happening more often as Buddhism gets more popular and more people see it as a way to control others and make some money for themselves.

No, I don't agree with you that this kind of thing will happen more frequently because Buddhism is becoming more popular.

There are scandals that happen in every religion, Buddhism included.

We can find much to criticize in this particular case, but this did NOT happen because Buddhism is flawed as a religion. It happens due to karma and the times we live in.

Where did I say anything about Buddhism being flawed? Just because people take advantage of others by using a perversion of Buddhism does not mean that the religion is flawed, it is simply a reflection on human nature.

 

[Sky Dancer]

I agree, it is shocking. The sad thing is that you are going to see it happening more often as Buddhism gets more popular and more people see it as a way to control others and make some money for themselves.

No, I don't agree with you that this kind of thing will happen more frequently because Buddhism is becoming more popular.

There are scandals that happen in every religion, Buddhism included.

We can find much to criticize in this particular case, but this did NOT happen because Buddhism is flawed as a religion. It happens due to karma and the times we live in.

Where did I say anything about Buddhism being flawed? Just because people take advantage of others by using a perversion of Buddhism does not mean that the religion is flawed, it is simply a reflection on human nature.

Humans are a mix of qualities. We are not flawed from the beginning, the way you, as a Christian, claim we are. Christians think we are all flawed sinners who need a savior to die for their sins.

We are pure in essence.

We have flaws, but these are adventitious. They can be refined away to reveal the essential purity within.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

No, I don't agree with you that this kind of thing will happen more frequently because Buddhism is becoming more popular.

There are scandals that happen in every religion, Buddhism included.

We can find much to criticize in this particular case, but this did NOT happen because Buddhism is flawed as a religion. It happens due to karma and the times we live in.

Where did I say anything about Buddhism being flawed? Just because people take advantage of others by using a perversion of Buddhism does not mean that the religion is flawed, it is simply a reflection on human nature.

Humans are a mix of qualities. We are not flawed from the beginning, the way you, as a Christian, claim we are. Christians think we are all flawed sinners who need a savior to die for their sins.

We are pure in essence.

We have flaws, but these are adventitious. They can be refined away to reveal the essential purity within.

Some Christians believe that original sin means all has sinned, but as I pointed out in your thread on the subject, not all Christians believe in original sin. Paul taught that the first Adam brought death, not sin, and that Jesus brought us life, not redemption from sin. The theolog is a lot more complicated than that, but it comes down to us not having our full potential to perceive the spiritual world because we are born into the world of the flesh.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Humans are a mix of qualities. We are not flawed from the beginning, the way you, as a Christian, claim we are. Christians think we are all flawed sinners who need a savior to die for their sins.

We are pure in essence.

We have flaws, but these are adventitious. They can be refined away to reveal the essential purity within.

Some Christians believe that original sin means all has sinned, but as I pointed out in your thread on the subject, not all Christians believe in original sin. Paul taught that the first Adam brought death, not sin, and that Jesus brought us life, not redemption from sin. The theolog is a lot more complicated than that, but it comes down to us not having our full potential to perceive the spiritual world because we are born into the world of the flesh.

I don't buy it. Human life is precious because of the unique capacity we have as humans for achieving enlightenment in the human form.

Achieving, not born to.

Interesting.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I don't buy it. Human life is precious because of the unique capacity we have as humans for achieving enlightenment in the human form.

Achieving, not born to. Interesting.

Not exactly. But it would take me way too long to explain and I doubt you're all that interested. All words do is point to that which cannot be imagined nor described.

Enlightenment is not something that can be imagined, or described, and only a few people are actually able to achieve it, nonetheless it is natural.

Why would I not understand that?

 

[Peach]

No, I don't agree with you that this kind of thing will happen more frequently because Buddhism is becoming more popular.

There are scandals that happen in every religion, Buddhism included.

We can find much to criticize in this particular case, but this did NOT happen because Buddhism is flawed as a religion. It happens due to karma and the times we live in.

Where did I say anything about Buddhism being flawed? Just because people take advantage of others by using a perversion of Buddhism does not mean that the religion is flawed, it is simply a reflection on human nature.

Humans are a mix of qualities. We are not flawed from the beginning, the way you, as a Christian, claim we are. Christians think we are all flawed sinners who need a savior to die for their sins.

We are pure in essence.

We have flaws, but these are adventitious. They can be refined away to reveal the essential purity within.

I believe humans are born pure, it is the world that alters the essence.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Where did I say anything about Buddhism being flawed? Just because people take advantage of others by using a perversion of Buddhism does not mean that the religion is flawed, it is simply a reflection on human nature.

Humans are a mix of qualities. We are not flawed from the beginning, the way you, as a Christian, claim we are. Christians think we are all flawed sinners who need a savior to die for their sins.

We are pure in essence.

We have flaws, but these are adventitious. They can be refined away to reveal the essential purity within.

I believe humans are born pure, it is the world that alters the essence.

That's very similar to what I believe too. All sentient beings have buddha nature, but we don't all realize it. We have flaws, but they are adventitious. Just as crystals are concealed in rock, the rock doesn't harm the crystal. Once the rock is worn away the crystal is revealed and with it the capacity to reflect light.

 

[Cenotaph]

Those pesky Buddhists... Always stirrin' up trouble.

 

[syrenn]

you arent forced to go to these things...people pay them for this....i read about this story and didnt find much to blame but two people who got in over their heads

A cult is a cult... paying to get your head fucked over is nothing new.

 

[syrenn]

well the cult comments.....everything can be called a cult...well did koresh have a compound yet bill graham has a retreat...the power of semantics

Bill graham... cult leader too.

 

[syrenn]

My wife is friends with a woman who went to this retreat center to do a three year retreat. We are quite concerned about her. This guy, Michael Roach, the "Lama" is crazy.

Whatever happened here, it should be fully investigated. Three year retreat is not a death cult.

heavens gate was a death cult... the one these people went to was your run of the mill cult.

 

[catzmeow]

I think some people are more vulnerable to these types of charismatic leaders than others. It's almost like they require external structure and support so much that they suspend their critical thinking skills (if they even have them), and stop thinking entirely so as to fit into the structure of the belief system.

Fitting in and being accepted by the group seems to transcend their ability to reason and make good decisions.

 

[syrenn]

I think some people are more vulnerable to these types of charismatic leaders than others. It's almost like they require external structure and support so much that they suspend their critical thinking skills (if they even have them), and stop thinking entirely so as to fit into the structure of the belief system.

Fitting in and being accepted by the group seems to transcend their ability to reason and make good decisions.

I agree....

 

[Samson]

cant people just be fucked up with the partisan crap

Yep...But of course people like QW cannot apply logic like that.

Right. I am so stupid that I actually believe that a Bhuddist retreat is a right wing cult.

Your first mistake was believing USMB has a membership that would catch your sarcasm.

I've found that simple sentences work best.

In fact, keeping it to one syllable resonses it often the best tactic.

For Expample:

"Idiots," would have been appropriate.



OOOps....too many syllables......

 

[syrenn]

My wife is friends with a woman who went to this retreat center to do a three year retreat. We are quite concerned about her. This guy, Michael Roach, the "Lama" is crazy.

Whatever happened here, it should be fully investigated. Three year retreat is not a death cult.

heavens gate was a death cult... the one these people went to was your run of the mill cult.

A three year retreat center is not a death cult.

This should not have happened. It should be investigated.

Read what i post sky..... i said buddhist cult retreats are just that.... run of the mill cult brain washing crap.

I said.... heavens gate type of cults.... are death cults....

 

[Samson]

heavens gate was a death cult... the one these people went to was your run of the mill cult.

A three year retreat center is not a death cult.

This should not have happened. It should be investigated.

Read what i post sky..... i said buddhist cults retreats are just that.... run of the mill cult brain washing crap.

I said.... heavens gate type of cults.... are death cults....

What happened to all the sex cults?

 

[syrenn]

A three year retreat center is not a death cult.

This should not have happened. It should be investigated.

Read what i post sky..... i said buddhist cults retreats are just that.... run of the mill cult brain washing crap.

I said.... heavens gate type of cults.... are death cults....

What happened to all the sex cults?

Now that would be a fun three year retreat!