"Greatest Nation " Rhetoric Roars Back

[georgephillip]

Robert Jensen takes exception to a recent column by the National Review's Rich Lowry:

"Yes, the Greatest Country Ever
"Our greatness is simply a fact.

"When the likes of Marco Rubio, the new Republican senator from Florida, say this is the greatest country ever, sophisticated opinion-makers cluck and roll their eyes. What a noxious tea-party nostrum. How chauvinistic. What hubris..."

Jensen counters by saying "...any claim to being the greatest nation is depraved and dangerous, especially when made in the empire"

"Sign of pathology

Imagine your child, let's call him Joe, made the declaration, 'I am the greatest 10-year-old on earth.'

"If you were a loving parent, interested in helping your child develop into a decent person, what would you say? Let's assume you believe Joe to be a perfectly lovely boy, maybe even gifted in many ways.

"Would you indulge him in that fantasy? Most of us would not...

"Now, if Joe makes it to adulthood and continues to claim he is the greatest, we would come to one of two conclusions (assuming he's not saying it just to hype the sales of his book or sell tickets to some event): Either he is mentally unstable or he's an asshole..."

In his article, Jensen links to a pair of chapters in his book, "Citizens of the Empire: The Struggle to Claim Our Humanity."

In order to bolster his analysis of claims to US national greatness that celebrate our history of coercion and violence:

"Such claims ignore the complexity of societies and life within them. Even societies that do great things can have serious problems.

"We are all aware that a person with admirable qualities in one realm can have quite tragic flaws in another. The same is true of nations.

"Constant claims to being the greatest reveal a pathology in the national character.

"Crucially, that pathology is most dangerous in nations with great economic or military power (which tend to be the ones that most consistently make such claims).

"That is, the nations that claim to be great are usually the ones that can enforce their greatness through coercion and violence."

 

[Mad Scientist]

Well apparently the Democrat Party Controllers are saying that your Lord and Savior Obama is channeling Reagan so you better start believing in "American Exceptionalism" right away hombre.

 

[rdean]

Well apparently the Democrat Party Controllers are saying that your Lord and Savior Obama is channeling Reagan so you better start believing in "American Exceptionalism" right away hombre.

The left doesn't think in terms of politicions being "demi Gods".

A quarter of Republicans believe Obama is the "Anti Christ". Because they think that way, you can't assume the left does also.

 

[AllieBaba]

Well apparently the Democrat Party Controllers are saying that your Lord and Savior Obama is channeling Reagan so you better start believing in "American Exceptionalism" right away hombre.

The left doesn't think in terms of politicions being "demi Gods".

A quarter of Republicans believe Obama is the "Anti Christ". Because they think that way, you can't assume the left does also.

Can you say that with a straight face? I want to see your face so I know you're not toying with us! When uttered by you, who spent months flooding this site with pro-Obama garbage while at the same time digging up insane crap about Palin and Cheney, it shoot past the ironimeter straight into fucking schizophrenialand.

 

[georgephillip]

Well apparently the Democrat Party Controllers are saying that your Lord and Savior Obama is channeling Reagan so you better start believing in "American Exceptionalism" right away hombre.

I don't think Reagan or Obama would differ in their public opinions of this quote from Jensen's article:

"But from the beginning the new American experiment was also bathed in blood. The land base of the new nation was secured by a genocide that was almost successful.

"Depending on the estimate one uses for the pre-contact population of the continent (the number of people here before Columbus) -12 million is a conservative estimate - the extermination rate was from 95 to 99 percent.

"That is to say, by the end of the Indian wars at the close of the 19th century, the European invaders had successfully eliminated almost the entire indigenous population (or the 'merciless Indian Savages' as they are labeled in the Declaration of Independence).[2] Let's call that the first American holocaust."

Reagan and Obama are corporate creations whose principle loyalty is to those who earn the most from war and private bond markets.

Greatest Nation...

 

[rdean]

Well apparently the Democrat Party Controllers are saying that your Lord and Savior Obama is channeling Reagan so you better start believing in "American Exceptionalism" right away hombre.

The left doesn't think in terms of politicions being "demi Gods".

A quarter of Republicans believe Obama is the "Anti Christ". Because they think that way, you can't assume the left does also.

Can you say that with a straight face? I want to see your face so I know you're not toying with us! When uttered by you, who spent months flooding this site with pro-Obama garbage while at the same time digging up insane crap about Palin and Cheney, it shoot past the ironimeter straight into fucking schizophrenialand.

Of course I can say it with a straight face. The right is 90% white and mostly Christians. The left is "everyone else". The left has to work through building coalitions. Not so with the right. They follow their leaders.

Ask people in the right wing base:

Do you support the apology to BP
Do you support another trillion in tax cuts for billionaires
Do you feel it was right holding millions of unemployed hostage to get tax cuts for billionaires
Do you feel Wall Street should be regulated
Should we cut benefits for the elderly and cut taxes for the rich at the same time
Do you feel we should cut funding for education
Do you feel we should move more jobs to China

You will get a resounding "NO!" Yet, these are clearly the positions of the Republican leadership. It's not like they hide it. Because they know that the base is terrified of the black guy in the WHITE House. Of course, race has nothing to do with it.

 

[Mad Scientist]

Do you support the apology to BP
Do you support another trillion in tax cuts for billionaires
Do you feel it was right holding millions of unemployed hostage to get tax cuts for billionaires
Do you feel Wall Street should be regulated
Should we cut benefits for the elderly and cut taxes for the rich at the same time
Do you feel we should cut funding for education
Do you feel we should move more jobs to China

You will get a resounding "NO!" Yet, these are clearly the positions of the Republican leadership. It's not like they hide it. Because they know that the base is terrified of the black guy in the WHITE House. Of course, race has nothing to do with it.

How did you like Obama re-authorizing The Patriot Act?
How do like Obama's plans for continuing the Bush Taxcuts?
How do you like the fact that Obama keeps us in Iraq and Afghanistan with our Army helping the local farmers grow opium?

As far as channeling Reagan, what do you think he should do next?

He's started pretty good with corporate welfare, giving exemptions from ObamaCare to big business. I know you just love that don't cha?

Now that Obama is Reagan, can we blame AIDS on him?

 

[georgephillip]

The left doesn't think in terms of politicions being "demi Gods".

A quarter of Republicans believe Obama is the "Anti Christ". Because they think that way, you can't assume the left does also.

Can you say that with a straight face? I want to see your face so I know you're not toying with us! When uttered by you, who spent months flooding this site with pro-Obama garbage while at the same time digging up insane crap about Palin and Cheney, it shoot past the ironimeter straight into fucking schizophrenialand.

Of course I can say it with a straight face. The right is 90% white and mostly Christians. The left is "everyone else". The left has to work through building coalitions. Not so with the right. They follow their leaders.

Ask people in the right wing base:

Do you support the apology to BP
Do you support another trillion in tax cuts for billionaires
Do you feel it was right holding millions of unemployed hostage to get tax cuts for billionaires
Do you feel Wall Street should be regulated
Should we cut benefits for the elderly and cut taxes for the rich at the same time
Do you feel we should cut funding for education
Do you feel we should move more jobs to China

You will get a resounding "NO!" Yet, these are clearly the positions of the Republican leadership. It's not like they hide it. Because they know that the base is terrified of the black guy in the WHITE House. Of course, race has nothing to do with it.

From April 13, 1996

"And I should say that cutting of social spending- social spending is being cut very sharply, very much over public opposition.

"At the time of the 1994 Congressional election -- you know, the big landslide -- over 60% of the public wanted social spending to increase.

'Ok. It went very sharply down.

"What about the Pentagon spending going up? Well that's- the public is 6 to 1 opposed to that, which gives you some- one- it's one aspect of a big picture about what's happening to American democracy, and somewhat of a change, not a huge change.

"The- so one part of the system is going up: Pentagon spending. Another part is going down: social spending."

Free Market Fantasies

 

[saveliberty]

Well apparently the Democrat Party Controllers are saying that your Lord and Savior Obama is channeling Reagan so you better start believing in "American Exceptionalism" right away hombre.

I don't think Reagan or Obama would differ in their public opinions of this quote from Jensen's article:

"But from the beginning the new American experiment was also bathed in blood. The land base of the new nation was secured by a genocide that was almost successful.

"Depending on the estimate one uses for the pre-contact population of the continent (the number of people here before Columbus) -12 million is a conservative estimate - the extermination rate was from 95 to 99 percent.

"That is to say, by the end of the Indian wars at the close of the 19th century, the European invaders had successfully eliminated almost the entire indigenous population (or the 'merciless Indian Savages' as they are labeled in the Declaration of Independence).[2] Let's call that the first American holocaust."

Reagan and Obama are corporate creations whose principle loyalty is to those who earn the most from war and private bond markets.

Greatest Nation...

Exposure to new diseases killed more Indians than bullets.

 

[georgephillip]

First American Holocaust:

"See Ward Churchill, A Little Matter of Genocide (San Francisco: City Lights Books, 1997). Churchill argues persuasively that the fact that a large number of those indigenous people died of disease doesn't absolve white America.

"Sometimes those diseases were spread intentionally, and even when that wasn't the case the white invaders did nothing to curtail contact with Indians to limit the destruction.

"Whether the Indians died in war or from disease, starvation and exposure, white society remained culpable."

Greatest Nation...

 

[rdean]

Do you support the apology to BP
Do you support another trillion in tax cuts for billionaires
Do you feel it was right holding millions of unemployed hostage to get tax cuts for billionaires
Do you feel Wall Street should be regulated
Should we cut benefits for the elderly and cut taxes for the rich at the same time
Do you feel we should cut funding for education
Do you feel we should move more jobs to China

You will get a resounding "NO!" Yet, these are clearly the positions of the Republican leadership. It's not like they hide it. Because they know that the base is terrified of the black guy in the WHITE House. Of course, race has nothing to do with it.

How did you like Obama re-authorizing The Patriot Act?
How do like Obama's plans for continuing the Bush Taxcuts?
How do you like the fact that Obama keeps us in Iraq and Afghanistan with our Army helping the local farmers grow opium?

As far as channeling Reagan, what do you think he should do next?

He's started pretty good with corporate welfare, giving exemptions from ObamaCare to big business. I know you just love that don't cha?

Now that Obama is Reagan, can we blame AIDS on him?

Obama had to continue Bush's tax cuts. That was the point. Republicans were holding hostage millions of Americans. If the rich didn't get their tax cuts, Republicans were going to keep millions of unemployed from getting unemployment benefits. Remember, 2.4 million jobs were moved to China from 2001 to 2008. More than 40,000 factories were shut down. It's not those people's fault their jobs were moved to China. Republicans worked with the Chinese government to make sure that happened. But they did make a great bargaining chip for Republicans. This was in the news for weeks before Christmas. Except on Fox. Fox is foreign owned (Australia and Saudi Arabia). They really don't care about this country.

 

[daveman]

Oh, yay. Another steaming pile of "America Sucks!!" from George.

George, go away and make room for someone who wants to be here and can contribute to society.

 

[georgephillip]

daveman...why is your first reaction to avoid the issue being raised and focus on the flaws or motives of the person raising the issue?

Would you agree greatness requires a capacity for critical self-reflection?

In terms of national greatness (if such a thing exists) wouldn't that require an honest acknowledgment of the way the land mass and wealth on the nation was acquired?

Possibly, America sucks because patriots like you are afraid of their own history.

"The second American holocaust was African slavery, a crucial factor in the emergence of the textile industry and the industrial revolution in the United States.

"Historians still debate the number of Africans who worked as slaves in the New World and the number who died during the process of enslavement in Africa, during the Middle Passage, and in the New World.

"But it is safe to say that tens of millions of people were rounded up and that as many as half of them died in the process."

Why are you afraid of acknowledging their contributions to the Greatest Nation?

 

[daveman]

daveman...why is your first reaction to avoid the issue being raised and focus on the flaws or motives of the person raising the issue?

Would you agree greatness requires a capacity for critical self-reflection?

In terms of national greatness (if such a thing exists) wouldn't that require an honest acknowledgment of the way the land mass and wealth on the nation was acquired?

Possibly, America sucks because patriots like you are afraid of their own history.

"The second American holocaust was African slavery, a crucial factor in the emergence of the textile industry and the industrial revolution in the United States.

"Historians still debate the number of Africans who worked as slaves in the New World and the number who died during the process of enslavement in Africa, during the Middle Passage, and in the New World.

"But it is safe to say that tens of millions of people were rounded up and that as many as half of them died in the process."

Why are you afraid of acknowledging their contributions to the Greatest Nation?

Who says I'm afraid of acknowledging anyone's contribution? I'm on record as being grateful for everything immigrants -- voluntary and otherwise (but not illegal) -- have done for this nation.

Quit being stupid, you fucking moron. And go away. You're stinking up the greatest nation on earth.

 

[Mad Scientist]

Possibly, America sucks because patriots like you are afraid of their own history.
Why are you afraid of acknowledging their contributions to the Greatest Nation?

The Democrats say Obama is "Reaganesque" and Reagan loved America so you better get with the talking points.

 

[uscitizen]

Possibly, America sucks because patriots like you are afraid of their own history.
Why are you afraid of acknowledging their contributions to the Greatest Nation?

The Democrats say Obama is "Reaganesque" and Reagan loved America so you better get with the talking points.

Umm the ones I hear talking about Obama being Reganesque are right wingers.

 

[georgephillip]

"And what of the third American holocaust, the building of the American empire in the Third World? What did the nation that finally turned its back on slavery turn to?"

Amaze me some more, daveman.

Slavery = involuntary migration?

What about US greatness in the Philippines?

Involuntary suicide?

 

[Mad Scientist]

Possibly, America sucks because patriots like you are afraid of their own history.
Why are you afraid of acknowledging their contributions to the Greatest Nation?

The Democrats say Obama is "Reaganesque" and Reagan loved America so you better get with the talking points.

Umm the ones I hear talking about Obama being Reganesque are right wingers.

Newsbusters: All Three Networks Agree: Obama Sounded ?Reaganesque? in State of the Union | Katy Pundit

On CBS, Evening News anchor Katie Couric touted how political analyst Jeff Greenfield thought it was “down right Reaganesque” and that “some” have argued “this could be his Reagan moment.”

SeeBS is a RightWing network now? When dat hoppen?

 

[The T]

The Democrats say Obama is "Reaganesque" and Reagan loved America so you better get with the talking points.

Umm the ones I hear talking about Obama being Reganesque are right wingers.

Newsbusters: All Three Networks Agree: Obama Sounded ?Reaganesque? in State of the Union | Katy Pundit

On CBS, Evening News anchor Katie Couric touted how political analyst Jeff Greenfield thought it was “down right Reaganesque” and that “some” have argued “this could be his Reagan moment.”

SeeBS is a RightWing network now? When dat hoppen?

There is nothing Reaganesque Of Obama...his writings...his history flies in the face of this assertion.

In short? it's a LIE.

 

[georgephillip]

Possibly, America sucks because patriots like you are afraid of their own history.
Why are you afraid of acknowledging their contributions to the Greatest Nation?

The Democrats say Obama is "Reaganesque" and Reagan loved America so you better get with the talking points.

It just seems like Reagan and Obama love some Americans so much more than others:

"First, under Reagan the average hourly wage, adjusted for inflation ($1982) declined from $7.93 to $7.79 from 1980 to 1988.

"Real weekly earnings fell from $281.21 to $270.32.

"Moreover, this US Dept. of Labor data is extremely conservative with regard to the real wage decline for working and middle class Americans, since it defines and includes as ‘wage’ the salary equivalent of managers and even CEOs which bumps up the ‘average’.

"Those same CEOs, investors, and other recipients of capital incomes (dividends, interest, rent, capital gains, etc.) in contrast did far better than the average working class wage earner.

"According to Internal Revenue Service data, the wealthiest 10% households in the U.S. increased their share of total US household income from 32% to 39% over Reagan’s eight years—two-thirds of which was accrued by the wealthiest 1% of the top 10% households."

I'm not sure the American Republic can stand much more "Love" from Republicans AND Democrats.

ZCommunications..