"Government" is Not the Problem.

[S.J.]

The guns in your house are there because you have permission to have them from the government.

​

You illustrate your ignorance of the Constitution. The guns in our houses are there because the Founding Fathers (not the government) put it in the Constitution so the government could not deny us that right.

So the founding fathers weren't government?

No.

 

[edthecynic]

"Government" is Not the Problem.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Why not?

The Constitution of TX.

That's amazing. Well congrats to you for being one of the few free property owners in this land!

Thanks, but there's probably millions of us in my State.

I own a house in your state... Paid thousands in taxes. Forgive me if I don't believe you

Check the State Constitution on 100% disabled vets and their spouses. We are exempt from property taxes.

So it's not a "Freedom" thing... It's a "dependent-on-the-state entitlement" thing.

I can work with that...

 

[AVG-JOE]

The guns in your house are there because you have permission to have them from the government.

Nope. We have guns with the permission of the Constitution.

And The Constitution is the contract under which we are governed. Permission from "the government".

I disagree. Its the Constitution that was written before we had a Govt. that allows us to keep and bear arms. The Govt. came later.

That's FUNNY!

The Constitution is the document that outlines and establishes the government!

 

[Boss]

The guns in your house are there because you have permission to have them from the government.

Nope. We have guns with the permission of the Constitution.

And The Constitution is the contract under which we are governed. Permission from "the government".

I disagree. Its the Constitution that was written before we had a Govt. that allows us to keep and bear arms. The Govt. came later.

That's FUNNY!

The Constitution is the document that outlines and establishes the government!

So... if it outlines and establishes the government, how did the government somehow precede it?

 

[AVG-JOE]

The guns in your house are there because you have permission to have them from the government.

​

You illustrate your ignorance of the Constitution. The guns in our houses are there because the Founding Fathers (not the government) put it in the Constitution so the government could not deny us that right.

So the founding fathers weren't government?

Why do we call them the Founding Fathers?

Whatever did they 'Found'?

Oh, yea... they founded our government!

 

[AVG-JOE]

The guns in your house are there because you have permission to have them from the government.

Nope. We have guns with the permission of the Constitution.

And The Constitution is the contract under which we are governed. Permission from "the government".

I disagree. Its the Constitution that was written before we had a Govt. that allows us to keep and bear arms. The Govt. came later.

That's FUNNY!

The Constitution is the document that outlines and establishes the government!

So... if it outlines and establishes the government, how did the government somehow precede it?

It didn't. The government was established when enough people agreed to live by The Constitution and committed their spawn to live by it by ratifying it.

 

[AVG-JOE]

I sorry you are so ignorant of history, at that time the States ruled their own territory and ran their own militias, they had a pretty loose confederation at the time, but each State was sovereign and still are with the exception of the limited powers they ceded to the feds. Why do you think the States can change the Constitution at will with no involvement from the feds?

I get it, was still written by the governing powers.

Not a central government. You DON'T get it.

I do get it... It was a government made up of the states and they expanded to a central government... Either way the ones that control and govern are the people made the laws. Brilliant document they created btw. Why are we even arguing over this?

Because the idiot you’re arguing with is functioning under the wrongheaded notion that the states have ‘more power’ than the Federal government, when in fact nothing could be further from the truth.

And don’t bother citing Article VI, Section 2 of the Constitution, like most on the right he’ll ignore it and remain willfully ignorant.

No, it's article 5 that proves you wrong, it gives the States the power to change or abolish the federal government at will, without any federal involvement, the States having such power says they are the sovereigns, not the feds.

And then, when some states tried it in the mid 1800's, The Republican Party was born to call 'bullshit' on that concept at the point of a gun, establishing once and for all the dominance and sovereignty of the federal government.

 

[AVG-JOE]

You all are funny, your freedom is an illusion only permissible by the government. Luckily it is a fluid group of elected officials with checks and balances rather than a ruling dictator, king or family. But make no mistake, you rent the land you live on from the Gov. You rent the right to do business and commerce with the governments dollars, and you rent the right to live free as long as you abide by their contract (laws)... Don't believe me, go break the laws... don't pay your income, business, or property taxes... See what happens

I don't have any property taxes.

Apparently you DO have property taxes, they are just being paid on your behalf by The People of The State of Texas as an entitlement you earned through your military service.

There is a difference.

 

[Boss]

Nope. We have guns with the permission of the Constitution.

And The Constitution is the contract under which we are governed. Permission from "the government".

I disagree. Its the Constitution that was written before we had a Govt. that allows us to keep and bear arms. The Govt. came later.

That's FUNNY!

The Constitution is the document that outlines and establishes the government!

So... if it outlines and establishes the government, how did the government somehow precede it?

It didn't. The government was established when enough people agreed to live by The Constitution and committed their spawn to live by it by ratifying it.

Okay, but now you are changing your position to that of Claudette. Did you think no one would notice that or something? Go back and read what was posted if you are confused. You claimed the Constitution was "permission from government" and Claudette corrected you by stating the Constitution came first. So not a damn thing in the Constitution can be "permission from the government" which didn't exist. The government was established by the Constitution, the Constitution was not established by government.

 

[AVG-JOE]

You all are funny, your freedom is an illusion only permissible by the government. Luckily it is a fluid group of elected officials with checks and balances rather than a ruling dictator, king or family. But make no mistake, you rent the land you live on from the Gov. You rent the right to do business and commerce with the governments dollars, and you rent the right to live free as long as you abide by their contract (laws)... Don't believe me, go break the laws... don't pay your income, business, or property taxes... See what happens

I don't have any property taxes.

Good for you

Forgot to say, I do own property. No mortgage, no taxes. So tell me, am I still renting from the government?

Yes. In a manner of speaking... if the government goes away and takes with it the benefits that you receive through The VA and other agencies, you are going to go hungry.

Beyond 'renting from the government', you are dependent on the government.

It may be an entitlement that you earned through your military service, but that doesn't lessen the dependency part of the relationship.

 

[Boss]

And then, when some states tried it in the mid 1800's, The Republican Party was born to call 'bullshit' on that concept at the point of a gun, establishing once and for all the dominance and sovereignty of the federal government.

Again... That's not what happened. The 10th Amendment was never repealed. Article V certainly wasn't repealed, nor was it the basis for secession during the Civil War. What kind of Liberal koolaid vat did you get your American History education from dude?

 

[AVG-JOE]

And The Constitution is the contract under which we are governed. Permission from "the government".

I disagree. Its the Constitution that was written before we had a Govt. that allows us to keep and bear arms. The Govt. came later.

That's FUNNY!

The Constitution is the document that outlines and establishes the government!

So... if it outlines and establishes the government, how did the government somehow precede it?

It didn't. The government was established when enough people agreed to live by The Constitution and committed their spawn to live by it by ratifying it.

Okay, but now you are changing your position to that of Claudette. Did you think no one would notice that or something? Go back and read what was posted if you are confused. You claimed the Constitution was "permission from government" and Claudette corrected you by stating the Constitution came first. So not a damn thing in the Constitution can be "permission from the government" which didn't exist. The government was established by the Constitution, the Constitution was not established by government.

No I didn't.

I claimed that The Constitution is the ultimate representation of "The Government", and if you claim the Second Amendment as your right to keep guns in your house, you are taking advantage of one of the permissions offered by the government that is based on The Constitution.

 

[AVG-JOE]

And then, when some states tried it in the mid 1800's, The Republican Party was born to call 'bullshit' on that concept at the point of a gun, establishing once and for all the dominance and sovereignty of the federal government.

Again... That's not what happened. The 10th Amendment was never repealed. Article V certainly wasn't repealed, nor was it the basis for secession during the Civil War. What kind of Liberal koolaid vat did you get your American History education from dude?

And yet the practicality of the matter remains that, because of the precedent established by the Republican victory in The American Civil War, the states are subject, in whole, to the federal government.

 

[Toro]

The guns in your house are there because you have permission to have them from the government.

​

All of our rights come from God, not man.

Ergo, God wants us to own guns.

 

[Boss]

And don’t bother citing Article VI, Section 2 of the Constitution, like most on the right he’ll ignore it and remain willfully ignorant.

All Article VI, Clause 2 (Supremacy Clause) does is establish Federal judiciary has supremacy over State judiciary. It has nothing to do with state sovereignty.

 

[gipper]

I disagree. Its the Constitution that was written before we had a Govt. that allows us to keep and bear arms. The Govt. came later.

That's FUNNY!

The Constitution is the document that outlines and establishes the government!

So... if it outlines and establishes the government, how did the government somehow precede it?

It didn't. The government was established when enough people agreed to live by The Constitution and committed their spawn to live by it by ratifying it.

Okay, but now you are changing your position to that of Claudette. Did you think no one would notice that or something? Go back and read what was posted if you are confused. You claimed the Constitution was "permission from government" and Claudette corrected you by stating the Constitution came first. So not a damn thing in the Constitution can be "permission from the government" which didn't exist. The government was established by the Constitution, the Constitution was not established by government.

No I didn't.

I claimed that The Constitution is the ultimate representation of "The Government", and if you claim the Second Amendment as your right to keep guns in your house, you are taking advantage of one of the permissions offered by the government that is based on The Constitution.

The 2A does not grant permission by government to keep and bear arms. It says the government can't infringe on the people's right to keep and bear arms. Big difference.

The Constitution was written to limit the power of government, not grant rights to the people.

 

[Boss]

I disagree. Its the Constitution that was written before we had a Govt. that allows us to keep and bear arms. The Govt. came later.

That's FUNNY!

The Constitution is the document that outlines and establishes the government!

So... if it outlines and establishes the government, how did the government somehow precede it?

It didn't. The government was established when enough people agreed to live by The Constitution and committed their spawn to live by it by ratifying it.

Okay, but now you are changing your position to that of Claudette. Did you think no one would notice that or something? Go back and read what was posted if you are confused. You claimed the Constitution was "permission from government" and Claudette corrected you by stating the Constitution came first. So not a damn thing in the Constitution can be "permission from the government" which didn't exist. The government was established by the Constitution, the Constitution was not established by government.

No I didn't.

I claimed that The Constitution is the ultimate representation of "The Government", and if you claim the Second Amendment as your right to keep guns in your house, you are taking advantage of one of the permissions offered by the government that is based on The Constitution.

No I didn't.

The guns in your house are there because you have permission to have them from the government.

Nope. We have guns with the permission of the Constitution.

And The Constitution is the contract under which we are governed. Permission from "the government".

So did someone hack your account and post this, Joe?

The Constitution precedes the Government. How is the government giving ANY permission? The Constitution establishes the government at the same time it outlines our inalienable rights and government's enumerated powers.

 

[Boss]

And then, when some states tried it in the mid 1800's, The Republican Party was born to call 'bullshit' on that concept at the point of a gun, establishing once and for all the dominance and sovereignty of the federal government.

Again... That's not what happened. The 10th Amendment was never repealed. Article V certainly wasn't repealed, nor was it the basis for secession during the Civil War. What kind of Liberal koolaid vat did you get your American History education from dude?

And yet the practicality of the matter remains that, because of the precedent established by the Republican victory in The American Civil War, the states are subject, in whole, to the federal government.

You don't know what you're talking about. The Civil War did no such thing. We had passage and ratification of the 13th, 14th and 15th Amendments. None of those surrender state sovereignty over to federal government or repeal any part of the Constitution or Bill of Rights.

 

[Boss]

I claimed that The Constitution is the ultimate representation of "The Government", and if you claim the Second Amendment as your right to keep guns in your house, you are taking advantage of one of the permissions offered by the government that is based on The Constitution.

How did the government offer me a permission when it didn't yet exist?