God given rights?

[PratchettFan]

Then what is? A piece of paper, no matter what it says, won't stand up to my gun.

The collected guns of those who say this is a nation of laws. It isn't about the paper, it is about the will of the people who give the paper meaning.

..and the government they formed, which is the embodiment of "the will of the people".

So long as the people will it.

 

[konradv]

Because God wants us to rule ourselves according to His precepts. That is why this whole ball got rolling in the first place. The country was FOUNDED on that principle.

Folks like you are just bound and determined to change that, and it's sad to see.

If we rule ourselves, then we determine what are and are not rights. If you wish for God to be the cause of that, you are free to believe so. It changes absolutely nothing. The practical outcome is the same, with our without God.

Wrong.

Unalienable rights are the protection against mob rule.

Who's protecting you from the mob?

 

[uscitizen]

If god gives you rights then he should be the one to enforce them.
I sure as heck don't want to do his lackey work.

 

[PratchettFan]

Now you are just being a tool. England was not founded on the sovereignty of the individual based on God-granted unalienable rights.

Founded? No. Again, you obviously have not read the Magna Carta and you assume that makes you an expert on it.

England was founded upon the God-granted unalienable rights of Kings. You have heard the phrase "divine rights of kings", have you not? That is how you play this God-granted game. And, as the Magna Carta made clear, it is only God-granted so long as people are willing to let it be God-granted. God always seems to grant these rights to whoever is holding the sword. Change that and God grants rights to the new sword holder.

Excellent. You show some capacity to learn.

Now, if you could just learn to read past the first two words.

 

[SniperFire]

If we rule ourselves, then we determine what are and are not rights. If you wish for God to be the cause of that, you are free to believe so. It changes absolutely nothing. The practical outcome is the same, with our without God.

Wrong.

Unalienable rights are the protection against mob rule.

Nonsense. The law is the protection against mob rule. When a man is being lynched and the law (in the form of the police) stands by and watches, unalienable rights do nothing at all.

You should educate yourself on tyranny of the majority, and why our unalienable rights protect us against laws permitting mob rule.

You have a poor understanding of the subject.

 

[PratchettFan]

"Free Will" you dumb left wing asses.

"We the People..." you (insert whatever derogative strikes your fancy so you feel involved).

 

[konradv]

In our system, government is not the guarantor of rights.

Then what is? A piece of paper, no matter what it says, won't stand up to my gun.

Again, you are being intentionally obtuse, commie.

That we have rights does not mean they cannot be wrongfully violated.

How can they be violated, if they're God-given? You're the one being obtuse. You say our rights are guaranteed on the one hand, but admit they can be violated on the other.

 

[SniperFire]

]If god gives you rights then he should be the one to enforce them.[/B]
I sure as heck don't want to do his lackey work.

This is your opinion, and does not negate the fact that America was founded as a defacto theocracy based on God granted degrees of sovereignty of the individual over the gubmint.

 

[Katzndogz]

Wrong. You really have no idea what you are talking about, do you?

So, you haven't read the Magna Carta.

Now you are just being a tool. England was not founded on the sovereignty of the individual based on God-granted unalienable rights.

While England was not founded on the sovereignity of the individual based on God-granted rights that changed. England, like all monarchies was founded on the divine right of Kings to rule. King John abused that power and to stop a civil war against his authority he signed the Magna Carta which recognized certain inalienable God-granted rights.

 

[SniperFire]

Then what is? A piece of paper, no matter what it says, won't stand up to my gun.

Again, you are being intentionally obtuse, commie.

That we have rights does not mean they cannot be wrongfully violated.

How can they be violated, if they're God-given?

That is rather stupid.

 

[Katzndogz]

If god gives you rights then he should be the one to enforce them.
I sure as heck don't want to do his lackey work.

God might have given you your rights. Defending them is up to you. If the government gave you your rights, then you have no reason to defend them. The rights given to you are able to be taken away at whim.

 

[SniperFire]

So, you haven't read the Magna Carta.

Now you are just being a tool. England was not founded on the sovereignty of the individual based on God-granted unalienable rights.

While England was not founded on the sovereignity of the individual based on God-granted rights that changed. England, like all monarchies was founded on the divine right of Kings to rule. King John abused that power and to stop a civil war against his authority he signed the Magna Carta which recognized certain inalienable God-granted rights.

Magna Carta is about king granted rights, not God-granted rights.

'Magna Carta's philosophy of king-granted rights stands, therefore, for the antithesis of the traditional American philosophy of Man-over-Government, based upon the uniquely American concept of God-given, unalienable rights safeguarded by a system of constitutionally limited government created by the sovereign people, under a written Constitution adopted by them, primarily to make and keep these rights secure.'

Magna Carta's King-granted Rights

 

[PratchettFan]

Wrong.

Unalienable rights are the protection against mob rule.

Nonsense. The law is the protection against mob rule. When a man is being lynched and the law (in the form of the police) stands by and watches, unalienable rights do nothing at all.

You should educate yourself on tyranny of the majority, and why our unalienable rights protect us against laws permitting mob rule.

You have a poor understanding of the subject.

I understand the subject. I suppose the problem is that I also have contact with reality. I can identify bull shit when I see it.

Between 1882 and 1968, more than 4700 people were lynched in this country. About 3/4 of those were blacks. That was all mob rule. Explain to me why that happened if they were protected by their unalienable rights.

 

[konradv]

Again, you are being intentionally obtuse, commie.

That we have rights does not mean they cannot be wrongfully violated.

How can they be violated, if they're God-given?

That is rather stupid.

Then tell me, what guarantees that they're not violated?

 

[SniperFire]

How can they be violated, if they're God-given?

That is rather stupid.

Then tell me, what guarantees that they're not violated?

There are no guarantees that rights are not violated. You are being foolish.

All we have is remedy when they are.

 

[SniperFire]

Nonsense. The law is the protection against mob rule. When a man is being lynched and the law (in the form of the police) stands by and watches, unalienable rights do nothing at all.

You should educate yourself on tyranny of the majority, and why our unalienable rights protect us against laws permitting mob rule.

You have a poor understanding of the subject.

I understand the subject. I suppose the problem is that I also have contact with reality. I can identify bull shit when I see it.

Between 1882 and 1968, more than 4700 people were lynched in this country. About 3/4 of those were blacks. That was all mob rule. Explain to me why that happened if they were protected by their unalienable rights.

Blacks were not considered to be fully-human at the time by many.

Again, nobody has claimed that unalienable rights are not capable of being violated by man.

You are flailing pathetically.

 

[PratchettFan]

Now you are just being a tool. England was not founded on the sovereignty of the individual based on God-granted unalienable rights.

While England was not founded on the sovereignity of the individual based on God-granted rights that changed. England, like all monarchies was founded on the divine right of Kings to rule. King John abused that power and to stop a civil war against his authority he signed the Magna Carta which recognized certain inalienable God-granted rights.

Magna Carta is about king granted rights, not God-granted rights.

'Magna Carta's philosophy of king-granted rights stands, therefore, for the antithesis of the traditional American philosophy of Man-over-Government, based upon the uniquely American concept of God-given, unalienable rights safeguarded by a system of constitutionally limited government created by the sovereign people, under a written Constitution adopted by them, primarily to make and keep these rights secure.'

Magna Carta's King-granted Rights

Still haven't read it, I see. Let me help. Here is the opening line...

"Preamble: John, by the grace of God..."

You see, he can grant rights because he is given that power by God. As I said, that is how you play the God-granted game.

 

[SniperFire]

While England was not founded on the sovereignity of the individual based on God-granted rights that changed. England, like all monarchies was founded on the divine right of Kings to rule. King John abused that power and to stop a civil war against his authority he signed the Magna Carta which recognized certain inalienable God-granted rights.

Magna Carta is about king granted rights, not God-granted rights.

'Magna Carta's philosophy of king-granted rights stands, therefore, for the antithesis of the traditional American philosophy of Man-over-Government, based upon the uniquely American concept of God-given, unalienable rights safeguarded by a system of constitutionally limited government created by the sovereign people, under a written Constitution adopted by them, primarily to make and keep these rights secure.'

Magna Carta's King-granted Rights

Still haven't read it, I see. Let me help. Here is the opening line...

"Preamble: John, by the grace of God..."

You see, he can grant rights because he is given that power by God. As I said, that is how you play the God-granted game.

You are failing. LOL

The 'rights' to the people in the Magna Carta are granted by the King.

 

[PratchettFan]

You should educate yourself on tyranny of the majority, and why our unalienable rights protect us against laws permitting mob rule.

You have a poor understanding of the subject.

I understand the subject. I suppose the problem is that I also have contact with reality. I can identify bull shit when I see it.

Between 1882 and 1968, more than 4700 people were lynched in this country. About 3/4 of those were blacks. That was all mob rule. Explain to me why that happened if they were protected by their unalienable rights.

Blacks were not considered to be fully-human at the time by many.

Again, nobody has claimed that unalienable rights are not capable of being violated by man.

You are flailing pathetically.

I see. So because people did not consider them fully human they did not have unalienable rights. But I thought that came from God. So God must have thought them not fully human. Is that what you are saying?

If unalienable rights can be violated by man, then just how do they protect anyone from mob rule?

 

[PratchettFan]

Magna Carta is about king granted rights, not God-granted rights.

'Magna Carta's philosophy of king-granted rights stands, therefore, for the antithesis of the traditional American philosophy of Man-over-Government, based upon the uniquely American concept of God-given, unalienable rights safeguarded by a system of constitutionally limited government created by the sovereign people, under a written Constitution adopted by them, primarily to make and keep these rights secure.'

Magna Carta's King-granted Rights

Still haven't read it, I see. Let me help. Here is the opening line...

"Preamble: John, by the grace of God..."

You see, he can grant rights because he is given that power by God. As I said, that is how you play the God-granted game.

You are failing. LOL

The 'rights' to the people in the Magna Carta are granted by the King.

Let me know when you actually have an argument.