Global warming over the last 16 years

[edthecynic]

SSDD -

Dismissing all science as being "altered" doesn't actually count for much, nor does it add anything to the debate.

At the point you can explain quite why and how university researchers right around the world are "altering" their research, you might have a point. Until then - you're just burying you head in the sand.

To muster a credible case, you'd also have to establish that any data altered had been done so maliciously, and not simply to improve the accuracy of results - something I think we can assume you don't seriously believe yourself.

There IS no debate wehen you are using falsified data silly person. When are you going to get that? In a court of law anyone found guilty of perjury is automatically ASSUMED to be a perjuror whenever they testify in court again, so no lawyer will EVER call a person as a witness who has been convicted of perjury.

The same holds true for the data manipulation that the AGW "scientists" have engaged in. Once they falsified the data THERE CAN BE NO DISCUSSION....they have ZERO credibility except to religious fanatics and fellow travellers.

Wouldn't that apply to deniers too??? Spencer has "manipulated" the data 11 times in the last 20 years, why don't you hypocritical deniers have a blink comparator for him?????

 

[Saigon]

It's fascinating that in all of these allegations of 'manipulation' neither Westwall nor SSDD has ever admitted what the most obvious reason why data might actually be changed.

It's actually fairly obvious.

It's to remove any data found to have been inaccurate. In other words, it is to ensure that the final data record is as accurate as it possibly can be.

Particularly when we consider measurements from, say, the 1920's, or the days when thermometers were sometimes sat next to airports or on the tops of mountains or above train stations...as scientists came to realise that those readings were untrusthworty, they would remove them from the records.

But no - forget Occam's Razor. It's much more fun to believe in a conspiracy involving thousands of people, most dedicated and qualified scientists, and working in hundreds of research units, all working together because....um...because....they felt like it.

I don't see this as any more likely than Holocaust denial myself.

 

[westwall]

SSDD -

Dismissing all science as being "altered" doesn't actually count for much, nor does it add anything to the debate.

At the point you can explain quite why and how university researchers right around the world are "altering" their research, you might have a point. Until then - you're just burying you head in the sand.

To muster a credible case, you'd also have to establish that any data altered had been done so maliciously, and not simply to improve the accuracy of results - something I think we can assume you don't seriously believe yourself.

There IS no debate wehen you are using falsified data silly person. When are you going to get that? In a court of law anyone found guilty of perjury is automatically ASSUMED to be a perjuror whenever they testify in court again, so no lawyer will EVER call a person as a witness who has been convicted of perjury.

The same holds true for the data manipulation that the AGW "scientists" have engaged in. Once they falsified the data THERE CAN BE NO DISCUSSION....they have ZERO credibility except to religious fanatics and fellow travellers.

Wouldn't that apply to deniers too??? Spencer has "manipulated" the data 11 times in the last 20 years, why don't you hypocritical deniers have a blink comparator for him?????

Yes, it does, that's why I don't use him as a source. Funny though how you slam him but those who support your cause get a free pass. Screw that, be at least a little honest.

 

[westwall]

It's fascinating that in all of these allegations of 'manipulation' neither Westwall nor SSDD has ever admitted what the most obvious reason why data might actually be changed.

It's actually fairly obvious.

It's to remove any data found to have been inaccurate. In other words, it is to ensure that the final data record is as accurate as it possibly can be.

Particularly when we consider measurements from, say, the 1920's, or the days when thermometers were sometimes sat next to airports or on the tops of mountains or above train stations...as scientists came to realise that those readings were untrusthworty, they would remove them from the records.

But no - forget Occam's Razor. It's much more fun to believe in a conspiracy involving thousands of people, most dedicated and qualified scientists, and working in hundreds of research units, all working together because....um...because....they felt like it.

I don't see this as any more likely than Holocaust denial myself.

Yeah, sure. 50 years after the fact they figure that the thermometer wasn't accurate? And all the modifications make the past colder than it really was...every one of the manipulations is in one direction...and when Hansen was caught somehow the records were magically returned to their original form. That sound like they needed "fixing". Hmmmm? Kinda throws a wrench in your bullshit theory eh propagandist?

Screw you and your Holocaust Denial bullshit you Holocaust revisionist prick.

 

[SSDD]

It's fascinating that in all of these allegations of 'manipulation' neither Westwall nor SSDD has ever admitted what the most obvious reason why data might actually be changed.

It's actually fairly obvious.

It's to remove any data found to have been inaccurate. In other words, it is to ensure that the final data record is as accurate as it possibly can be.

I have asked you before to describe a scientifically rational reason to lower the temperature of over 700 months prior to 1960 and raise the temperature of over 500 months since 1960. You haven't answered.

 

[edthecynic]

There IS no debate wehen you are using falsified data silly person. When are you going to get that? In a court of law anyone found guilty of perjury is automatically ASSUMED to be a perjuror whenever they testify in court again, so no lawyer will EVER call a person as a witness who has been convicted of perjury.

The same holds true for the data manipulation that the AGW "scientists" have engaged in. Once they falsified the data THERE CAN BE NO DISCUSSION....they have ZERO credibility except to religious fanatics and fellow travellers.

Wouldn't that apply to deniers too??? Spencer has "manipulated" the data 11 times in the last 20 years, why don't you hypocritical deniers have a blink comparator for him?????

Yes, it does, that's why I don't use him as a source. Funny though how you slam him but those who support your cause get a free pass. Screw that, be at least a little honest.

Yeah sure, you only use only sources who use him. One of your fellow deniers has already posted one of his cooked charts in this thread already.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

It's fascinating that in all of these allegations of 'manipulation' neither Westwall nor SSDD has ever admitted what the most obvious reason why data might actually be changed.

It's actually fairly obvious.

It's to remove any data found to have been inaccurate. In other words, it is to ensure that the final data record is as accurate as it possibly can be.

Particularly when we consider measurements from, say, the 1920's, or the days when thermometers were sometimes sat next to airports or on the tops of mountains or above train stations...as scientists came to realise that those readings were untrusthworty, they would remove them from the records.

But no - forget Occam's Razor. It's much more fun to believe in a conspiracy involving thousands of people, most dedicated and qualified scientists, and working in hundreds of research units, all working together because....um...because....they felt like it.

I don't see this as any more likely than Holocaust denial myself.

It's to remove data that does not conform with preconceived notions.

You should listen to real scientists. When discussing Einstein's Relativity, they say that if it failed on even one data point it would have to be discarded. That's how real science works.

Science

Not science

 

[RollingThunder]

It's fascinating that in all of these allegations of 'manipulation' neither Westwall nor SSDD has ever admitted what the most obvious reason why data might actually be changed.

It's actually fairly obvious.

It's to remove any data found to have been inaccurate. In other words, it is to ensure that the final data record is as accurate as it possibly can be.

Particularly when we consider measurements from, say, the 1920's, or the days when thermometers were sometimes sat next to airports or on the tops of mountains or above train stations...as scientists came to realise that those readings were untrusthworty, they would remove them from the records.

But no - forget Occam's Razor. It's much more fun to believe in a conspiracy involving thousands of people, most dedicated and qualified scientists, and working in hundreds of research units, all working together because....um...because....they felt like it.

I don't see this as any more likely than Holocaust denial myself.

Science

"Science" - completely beyond CrazyFruitcake's comprehension.

 

[Saigon]

It's fascinating that in all of these allegations of 'manipulation' neither Westwall nor SSDD has ever admitted what the most obvious reason why data might actually be changed.

It's actually fairly obvious.

It's to remove any data found to have been inaccurate. In other words, it is to ensure that the final data record is as accurate as it possibly can be.

I have asked you before to describe a scientifically rational reason to lower the temperature of over 700 months prior to 1960 and raise the temperature of over 500 months since 1960. You haven't answered.

Because you haven't researched it yourself, obviously.

To make any kind of a case out of that, you need to get the information from a reliable source, consider what the official explanation is, and then ask if that adds up. You would also need to establish how this has contatimanted data from the hundred other science units around the world - a topic you never fail to ignore.

Getting stuff out various blogs and presenting it as unimpeachable gospel truth that "debunks" everything else is exactly what Holocaust Deniers do, and it simply isn't worthy of comment.

 

[Saigon]

You should listen to real scientists.

There are times I'd swear your posting was intended to be ironic.

This is from the American Society of Physicists:

Emissions of greenhouse gases from human activities are changing the atmosphere in ways that affect the Earth's climate. Greenhouse gases include carbon dioxide as well as methane, nitrous oxide and other gases. They are emitted from fossil fuel combustion and a range of industrial and agricultural processes.

Climate Change

 

[westwall]

Wouldn't that apply to deniers too??? Spencer has "manipulated" the data 11 times in the last 20 years, why don't you hypocritical deniers have a blink comparator for him?????

Yes, it does, that's why I don't use him as a source. Funny though how you slam him but those who support your cause get a free pass. Screw that, be at least a little honest.

Yeah sure, you only use only sources who use him. One of your fellow deniers has already posted one of his cooked charts in this thread already.

And you use sources that use Mann, a proven liar with his bullshit claims of being a Nobel winner. Screw you and your hypocritical bullshit.

 

[westwall]

It's fascinating that in all of these allegations of 'manipulation' neither Westwall nor SSDD has ever admitted what the most obvious reason why data might actually be changed.

It's actually fairly obvious.

It's to remove any data found to have been inaccurate. In other words, it is to ensure that the final data record is as accurate as it possibly can be.

I have asked you before to describe a scientifically rational reason to lower the temperature of over 700 months prior to 1960 and raise the temperature of over 500 months since 1960. You haven't answered.

Because you haven't researched it yourself, obviously.

To make any kind of a case out of that, you need to get the information from a reliable source, consider what the official explanation is, and then ask if that adds up. You would also need to establish how this has contatimanted data from the hundred other science units around the world - a topic you never fail to ignore.

Getting stuff out various blogs and presenting it as unimpeachable gospel truth that "debunks" everything else is exactly what Holocaust Deniers do, and it simply isn't worthy of comment.

Actually "mr. journalist" we allready have. It's you who are decades behind the curve.

 

[Saigon]

And all the modifications make the past colder than it really was

And yet just today, Katz proved that this was not the case.

Actually, Katz really did the board a huge favour by hopefully establishing once and for all that there is no global conspiracy.

If you have not read his comment - where he posts statements from Norwedian researchers saying that human acitivity will increase temperatures not by 3C by 2050, but by only 1.9C, what we see very, very clearly is that scientists can and will downgrade their predictions where the science suggests that is correct.

 

[Saigon]

Actually "mr. journalist" we allready have. It's you who are decades behind the curve.

Please try and post with a little common sense.

 

[westwall]

And all the modifications make the past colder than it really was

And yet just today, Katz proved that this was not the case.

Actually, Katz really did the board a huge favour by hopefully establishing once and for all that there is no global conspiracy.

If you have not read his comment - where he posts statements from Norwedian researchers saying that human acitivity will increase temperatures not by 3C by 2050, but by only 1.9C, what we see very, very clearly is that scientists can and will downgrade their predictions where the science suggests that is correct.

What an ignorant boob you are. They reduced their predictions because they HAD to you stupid putz. 16 years of flat temps and they were beginning to look like absolute idiots so they had to save face some way and this is how they are doing it.

Too little too late. Gosh, do you bring them their coffee in the morning too?

 

[westwall]

Actually "mr. journalist" we allready have. It's you who are decades behind the curve.

Please try and post with a little common sense.

I do with every post, unlike you "mr. urinalist".

 

[Saigon]

Westwall -

Actually, no, you don't. We've seen just in the past week that your view of the amount of support climate scepticism enjoys is wildly, massively inaccurate, and we have also seen that you simply can not admit that. Instead, you seem to rely increasingly on name calling.

Neither position strikes me as being in any way common sense, even less so claiming that you are in some way "20 years" ahead of organisations such as the American Physical Society.

 

[westwall]

Westwall -

Actually, no, you don't. We've seen just in the past week that your view of the amount of support climate scepticism enjoys is wildly, massively inaccurate, and we have also seen that you simply can not admit that. Instead, you seem to rely increasingly on name calling.

Neither position strikes me as being in any way common sense, even less so claiming that you are in some way "20 years" ahead of organisations such as the American Physical Society.

No, you're just a tiresome waste of time with an inferiority complex it seems. Here are some polls for you....They range from a high of 37% in support of the cult of AGW to alow of 4%...like I said...I was being generous with the 25%.

Now go whine on someone elses shoulder.

Survey Says: Americans Not Worried About Global Warming - Environmental Capital - WSJ

Economy trumps climate as concern - Andy Barr - POLITICO.com

Water Pollution Americans? Top Green Concern

http://www.npr.org/assets/news/2009/07/28/pollreport.pdf

 

[Saigon]

Westwall -

It's fairly sad stuff, isn't it?

You couldn't find a SINGLE piece of international research?

And a Gallup poll showing how concerned Americans are about water pollution is somehow proof that they are NOT concerned about climate change??!! Another report says that the economy is the GREATEST concern - and you interpret this as meaning people aren't concerned about the climate at all? I would say that the economy is a greater concern right now as well - that does not mean that I am not concerned about climate change!!!

Dude, that is just childish and dishonest.

It's really worth trying to apply a little intellectual rigour before posting things like that, where the only possible response is laughter.

I'm going to start a conclusions thread in a few days, as we have actually concluded a few of the usual myths this week, I think, and I'll put more international data on that.

 

[westwall]

Westwall -

It's fairly sad stuff, isn't it?

You couldn't find a SINGLE piece of international research?

And a Gallup poll showing how concerned Americans are about water pollution is somehow proof that they are NOT concerned about climate change??!! Another report says that the economy is the GREATEST concern - and you interpret this as meaning people aren't concerned about the climate at all? I would say that the economy is a greater concern right now as well - that does not mean that I am not concerned about climate change!!!

Dude, that is just childish and dishonest.

It's really worth trying to apply a little intellectual rigour before posting things like that, where the only possible response is laughter.

I'm going to start a conclusions thread in a few days, as we have actually concluded a few of the usual myths this week, I think, and I'll put more international data on that.

Knock yourself out. Germany's going back to coal. Cap and trade is dead all over the world except for Australia, every global warming enviro whacko summit ends up with lots of blabbering but nothing getting done, so yeah, knock yourself out there saigon, you might make yourself and a few other asshats feel better but the rest of the world is marching on without you and your kind.