GHOSTS!!! Are you a Believer?

[earlycuyler]

When I was young I read "2001" (A Clarke) which begins with a posited premise that that for every person alive alive there are thirty spirits. But it got me to thinking. Now "modern humanity" is considered to be ~100,000 years old. So, as a given, if I apply two decades as a nominal span to a "modern generation," that's ~5,000 generations and so if I move to apply a statistical determination with a graphing to the standard distributive population curve, then apply the operation of a rough "integral" on the maximal area beneath the curve... ie. instead of the standard dx, you just divide by the average lifespan of an individual, then this relationship will also work in population rate estimates.

eg. if there are six billion humans at this given time and our worldwide average lifespan is ~75 years, then that means that 6bn/75 = 80 million people born per year, and also 80 million dying per year, if the population was static (not growing or shrinking). This relationship works for stable populations with the result being ~3 (strong rounding) people born per second and else fails when the populations are not stable (reality). This is just a static rough estimate of the spirits that could be revolving around us.

That's a lot of spirits to my calculations. To Arthur's posited premise? It's one hello of a lot of spirits (pun intended) and maybe they are here because they can't go there.

Seeing but not interacting must be hello... Believe? I have a hard enough time with the reality within my perspective and my personal faith. So I don't know.

Sooo then, its still coming ?

 

[Foxfyre]

When I was young I read "2001" (A Clarke) which begins with a posited premise that that for every person alive alive there are thirty spirits. But it got me to thinking. Now "modern humanity" is considered to be ~100,000 years old. So, as a given, if I apply two decades as a nominal span to a "modern generation," that's ~5,000 generations and so if I move to apply a statistical determination with a graphing to the standard distributive population curve, then apply the operation of a rough "integral" on the maximal area beneath the curve... ie. instead of the standard dx, you just divide by the average lifespan of an individual, then this relationship will also work in population rate estimates.

eg. if there are six billion humans at this given time and our worldwide average lifespan is ~75 years, then that means that 6bn/75 = 80 million people born per year, and also 80 million dying per year, if the population was static (not growing or shrinking). This relationship works for stable populations with the result being ~3 (strong rounding) people born per second and else fails when the populations are not stable (reality). This is just a static rough estimate of the spirits that could be revolving around us.

That's a lot of spirits to my calculations. To Arthur's posited premise? It's one hello of a lot of spirits (pun intended) and maybe they are here because they can't go there.

Seeing but not interacting must be hello... Believe? I have a hard enough time with the reality within my perspective and my personal faith. So I don't know.

ROFL, I didn't understand much of that, but I get the gist that statistically, if there ARE such things as ghosts/spirits/other worldly beings etc., there are likely to be a LOT of them.

I would tend to agree, but then wouldn't there be more encounters with the living? I don't know. I just know that the unexplainable happens all the time and I for one am willing to keep open the possibility.

 

[Ropey]

Sooo then, its still coming ?

http://www.usmessageboard.com/4267403-post1.html

I'd let you know if I could. I'm close to the answer, but I kind of doubt being able to share it.

 

[Ropey]

I would tend to agree, but then wouldn't there be more encounters with the living? I don't know. I just know that the unexplainable happens all the time and I for one am willing to keep open the possibility.

But also, if there were that kind of wandering spirit, never allowed inclusion and always unable to touch/contact?

Rather a hello for me.

 

[Swagger]

No, and I find it incredibly embarrassing to find myself within earshot of someone who claims to have seen a ghost in person, and that they shared a 'connection'. It's rather like listening to a man claim that he's sleeping with a woman everyone present knows, without a doubt, that he's not, but prefers not to say anything to avoid causing a scene.

Though having said all that, I'll admit to being slightly superstitious and often contemplate the possibility of life after death. I dunno, I suppose I've just contradicted myself in one single breath. At any rate, I've never gone ghost hunting and regard ghost hunting programmes with an extreme level of scepticism, seeing as most of the guests/hunters act like they're a few slices short of a loaf, so to speak.

 

[Mad Scientist]

When I was stationed in Okinawa I saw shit that would turn you WHITE!

 

[Swagger]

Secondly, am I alone in regarding the 'equipment' used to detect the presence of ghosts as incredibly suspect, and that they're just designed to make semi-relevant blips to convince the owner or those present that they haven't been monstrously defrauded by the vendor?

 

[Sunshine]

I've been ghosthunting quite a few times. Certainly I've seen things that I cannot explain... and I'm always the one who can find the rational explanations. In fact, I have video clips of some stuff that's happened on our ghosthunts that, even when I watch it back, I think 'that's got to be faked'... and I was the one filming, and no one else had access to the film.

Weird shit.

I haven't done any serious ghost hunting but I used to play with a Ouiji board when I was a kid. I am 100% certain that almost all of that activity was manipulated by those playing, but there was one time I asked a question that only I knew the answer. And I didn't participate in the activity. Those playing, however, without any one of them possibly knowing the answer, spelled it out. And that did creep me out.

It was never duplicated, however.

I will have to say however, standing in a darkened hallway of the St. James Hotel, with no human companion there with me, I had an overwhelming sense that I was not alone.

I have not personally seen a ghost that I know of.

When I was 16 I asked a Ouija board how old I would be when I die. It told me 69. My friend asked and it told her 18. She died in a wreck when she was 18. Now, I'm seriously fighting for my life. I would be thrilled to make it to 69.

 

[Sunshine]

When I was stationed in Okinawa I saw shit that would turn you WHITE!

I'm aleady white. But I'd be curious to know what you saw.

 

[Foxfyre]

No, and I find it incredibly embarrassing to find myself within earshot of someone who claims to have seen a ghost in person, and that they shared a 'connection'. It's rather like listening to a man claim that he's sleeping with a woman everyone present knows, without a doubt, that he's not, but prefers not to say anything to avoid causing a scene.

Though having said all that, I'll admit to being slightly superstitious and often contemplate the possibility of life after death. I dunno, I suppose I've just contradicted myself in one single breath. At any rate, I've never gone ghost hunting and regard ghost hunting programmes with an extreme level of scepticism, seeing as most of the guests/hunters act like they're a few slices short of a loaf, so to speak.

But you see, my experience has been just the opposite. While I cannot claim a personal experience with a ghost, ALL the people who have expressed their opinion to me that they did see or encounter an otherwise unexplainable presence have been people I trust implicitly to be honest, reasonable, unexcitable, and not given to fantasy or hallucinations.

So that leave me in a quandary. They were all either 'seeing things' or they saw the unexplainable.

So, I am inclined to believe that there is something there that we do not yet fully understand and can't measure. I am neither believer nor skeptic. I sure would like to know though.

 

[Sunshine]

No, and I find it incredibly embarrassing to find myself within earshot of someone who claims to have seen a ghost in person, and that they shared a 'connection'. It's rather like listening to a man claim that he's sleeping with a woman everyone present knows, without a doubt, that he's not, but prefers not to say anything to avoid causing a scene.

Though having said all that, I'll admit to being slightly superstitious and often contemplate the possibility of life after death. I dunno, I suppose I've just contradicted myself in one single breath. At any rate, I've never gone ghost hunting and regard ghost hunting programmes with an extreme level of scepticism, seeing as most of the guests/hunters act like they're a few slices short of a loaf, so to speak.

But you see, my experience has been just the opposite. While I cannot claim a personal experience with a ghost, ALL the people who have expressed their opinion to me that they did see or encounter an otherwise unexplainable presence have been people I trust implicitly to be honest, reasonable, unexcitable, and not given to fantasy or hallucinations.

So that leave me in a quandary. They were all either 'seeing things' or they saw the unexplainable.

So, I am inclined to believe that there is something there that we do not yet fully understand and can't measure. I am neither believer nor skeptic. I sure would like to know though.

There are sounds which our ears cannot hear. Why would it not be conceivable that there are sights which our eyes cannot see?

OH, I forgot a comment on the Ouija. I think as long as it is just a game and you are playing for fun, it is just a game. But if you get serious about serious things like your hour of death, it conjures up the devil!

 

[earlycuyler]

Sooo then, its still coming ?

http://www.usmessageboard.com/4267403-post1.html

I'd let you know if I could. I'm close to the answer, but I kind of doubt being able to share it.

Well, what ever you do, never divide by zero.

 

[Foxfyre]

No, and I find it incredibly embarrassing to find myself within earshot of someone who claims to have seen a ghost in person, and that they shared a 'connection'. It's rather like listening to a man claim that he's sleeping with a woman everyone present knows, without a doubt, that he's not, but prefers not to say anything to avoid causing a scene.

Though having said all that, I'll admit to being slightly superstitious and often contemplate the possibility of life after death. I dunno, I suppose I've just contradicted myself in one single breath. At any rate, I've never gone ghost hunting and regard ghost hunting programmes with an extreme level of scepticism, seeing as most of the guests/hunters act like they're a few slices short of a loaf, so to speak.

But you see, my experience has been just the opposite. While I cannot claim a personal experience with a ghost, ALL the people who have expressed their opinion to me that they did see or encounter an otherwise unexplainable presence have been people I trust implicitly to be honest, reasonable, unexcitable, and not given to fantasy or hallucinations.

So that leave me in a quandary. They were all either 'seeing things' or they saw the unexplainable.

So, I am inclined to believe that there is something there that we do not yet fully understand and can't measure. I am neither believer nor skeptic. I sure would like to know though.

There are sounds which our ears cannot hear. Why would it not be conceivable that there are sights that our eyes cannot see?

OH, I forgot a comment on the Ouija. I think as long as it is just a game and you are playing for fun, it is just a game. But if you get serious about serious things like your hour of death, it conjures up the devil!

Well I don't know if I had any encounters with the devil or not.

Sometimes when working late at night, I have the radio on in the background. At 11 pm and running to something like 4 in the morning is a program called "Coast to Coast" hosted by a George Noury during the week and Ian Pondit (I think) on the weekends. Occasionally they run old shows of a former host "Art Bell" and those old shows, sometimes ten years old, are still really good.

All three guys often feature people and also have callers who share encounters with ghosts, extra terrestrials, spirits, and have other paranormal experiences. They have so-called experts who sound so credible sharing recordings of voices of the ghosts they encounter and reporting other eerie experiences. If the hosts are not believers, they never let on.

I will admit to listening to most of this with a good deal of skepticism, but it makes for good radio and every now and then I am intrigued.

They often use CUSCO as their bumper music too and it is awesome.

 

[Sarah G]

But you see, my experience has been just the opposite. While I cannot claim a personal experience with a ghost, ALL the people who have expressed their opinion to me that they did see or encounter an otherwise unexplainable presence have been people I trust implicitly to be honest, reasonable, unexcitable, and not given to fantasy or hallucinations.

So that leave me in a quandary. They were all either 'seeing things' or they saw the unexplainable.

So, I am inclined to believe that there is something there that we do not yet fully understand and can't measure. I am neither believer nor skeptic. I sure would like to know though.

There are sounds which our ears cannot hear. Why would it not be conceivable that there are sights that our eyes cannot see?

OH, I forgot a comment on the Ouija. I think as long as it is just a game and you are playing for fun, it is just a game. But if you get serious about serious things like your hour of death, it conjures up the devil!

Well I don't know if I had any encounters with the devil or not.

Sometimes when working late at night, I have the radio on in the background. At 11 pm and running to something like 4 in the morning is a program called "Coast to Coast" hosted by a George Noury during the week and Ian Pondit (I think) on the weekends. Occasionally they run old shows of a former host "Art Bell" and those old shows, sometimes ten years old, are still really good.

All three guys often feature people and also have callers who share encounters with ghosts, extra terrestrials, spirits, and have other paranormal experiences. They have so-called experts who sound so credible sharing recordings of voices of the ghosts they encounter and reporting other eerie experiences. If the hosts are not believers, they never let on.

I will admit to listening to most of this with a good deal of skepticism, but it makes for good radio and every now and then I am intrigued.

They often use CUSCO as their bumper music too and it is awesome.

I like Coast to Coast. I am scared to listen to those ghost stories tho. Art Bell is such a freak.

 

[Swagger]

No, and I find it incredibly embarrassing to find myself within earshot of someone who claims to have seen a ghost in person, and that they shared a 'connection'. It's rather like listening to a man claim that he's sleeping with a woman everyone present knows, without a doubt, that he's not, but prefers not to say anything to avoid causing a scene.

Though having said all that, I'll admit to being slightly superstitious and often contemplate the possibility of life after death. I dunno, I suppose I've just contradicted myself in one single breath. At any rate, I've never gone ghost hunting and regard ghost hunting programmes with an extreme level of scepticism, seeing as most of the guests/hunters act like they're a few slices short of a loaf, so to speak.

But you see, my experience has been just the opposite. While I cannot claim a personal experience with a ghost, ALL the people who have expressed their opinion to me that they did see or encounter an otherwise unexplainable presence have been people I trust implicitly to be honest, reasonable, unexcitable, and not given to fantasy or hallucinations.

So that leave me in a quandary. They were all either 'seeing things' or they saw the unexplainable.

So, I am inclined to believe that there is something there that we do not yet fully understand and can't measure. I am neither believer nor skeptic. I sure would like to know though.

I can sympathise that it's a sensitive subject that needs to be treated delicately when close friends and family are the ones claiming to have seen apparitions at the end of their bed, but I've never had to deal with that.

As I've already said/written, I'm superstitious and sometimes find myself contemplating what lies after death. Perhaps my inherent sense pragmatism and cynicism's just at odds with my gut.

As for the unexplained, here's an account I submitted to Teapartysamurai's halloween thread a couple of days ago (make of it what you will):

Ah, yes, how could I forget.

Many moons ago I was contracted to gut-out a portion of an old peoples' home in Southampton (where the Titanic cast off) that had been declared unfit for use. Due to the very delicate nature of the utilities we had to isolate before the gut-out/soft strip could commence, I decided to take a very hands-on approach. The area of most concern to the client and myself was the preservation of a copper pipe that conveyed pure oxygen to various points throughout the buildings that weren't scheduled to be refurbished. We pulled down the suspended ceilings to expose the pipe and make sure the direction it took matched that of what was on our drawings.

One evening I was in a remote corner of the site with a voice recorder, making detailed notes of where and how the pipe in question meandered through the building. I was using a fresh tape and was completely alone. I started at the far fire exit and made my way to the main doors which were scheduled to be sealed before work started. After I'd finished talking into the recorder I sat down and lit a cigarette while I listened over what I'd recorded to ensure I hadn't overlooked anything. I finished the cigarette and the recording came to an end, then briefly went-on to play unrecorded tape. Just as I was turning-off the recorder, I heard what I thought was the beginning of a word spoken by a voice that wasn't mine. I rewound the tape a bit and listened again. I heard myself droning-on about angles and colour coded markings. The tape went dead for a second or two, then I heard it. It was a very clear and aggressive voice saying "shut up, just shut up. Who are you", or something along those lines. I listened to it over again a couple of times and called-out on my walkie talkie asking where everyone was working, wondering if the recorder had recorded someone nearby. Nobody was anywhere even close to me, and there's no way a tape recorder can pick-up radio traffic.

 

[earlycuyler]

But you see, my experience has been just the opposite. While I cannot claim a personal experience with a ghost, ALL the people who have expressed their opinion to me that they did see or encounter an otherwise unexplainable presence have been people I trust implicitly to be honest, reasonable, unexcitable, and not given to fantasy or hallucinations.

So that leave me in a quandary. They were all either 'seeing things' or they saw the unexplainable.

So, I am inclined to believe that there is something there that we do not yet fully understand and can't measure. I am neither believer nor skeptic. I sure would like to know though.

There are sounds which our ears cannot hear. Why would it not be conceivable that there are sights that our eyes cannot see?

OH, I forgot a comment on the Ouija. I think as long as it is just a game and you are playing for fun, it is just a game. But if you get serious about serious things like your hour of death, it conjures up the devil!

Well I don't know if I had any encounters with the devil or not.

Sometimes when working late at night, I have the radio on in the background. At 11 pm and running to something like 4 in the morning is a program called "Coast to Coast" hosted by a George Noury during the week and Ian Pondit (I think) on the weekends. Occasionally they run old shows of a former host "Art Bell" and those old shows, sometimes ten years old, are still really good.

All three guys often feature people and also have callers who share encounters with ghosts, extra terrestrials, spirits, and have other paranormal experiences. They have so-called experts who sound so credible sharing recordings of voices of the ghosts they encounter and reporting other eerie experiences. If the hosts are not believers, they never let on.

I will admit to listening to most of this with a good deal of skepticism, but it makes for good radio and every now and then I am intrigued.

They often use CUSCO as their bumper music too and it is awesome.

You hear the one where he played the recordings from the bottomless holes in Russia . Very hell like.

 

[Ropey]

No, and I find it incredibly embarrassing to find myself within earshot of someone who claims to have seen a ghost in person, and that they shared a 'connection'. It's rather like listening to a man claim that he's sleeping with a woman everyone present knows, without a doubt, that he's not, but prefers not to say anything to avoid causing a scene.

Though having said all that, I'll admit to being slightly superstitious and often contemplate the possibility of life after death. I dunno, I suppose I've just contradicted myself in one single breath. At any rate, I've never gone ghost hunting and regard ghost hunting programmes with an extreme level of scepticism, seeing as most of the guests/hunters act like they're a few slices short of a loaf, so to speak.

But you see, my experience has been just the opposite. While I cannot claim a personal experience with a ghost, ALL the people who have expressed their opinion to me that they did see or encounter an otherwise unexplainable presence have been people I trust implicitly to be honest, reasonable, unexcitable, and not given to fantasy or hallucinations.

So that leave me in a quandary. They were all either 'seeing things' or they saw the unexplainable.

So, I am inclined to believe that there is something there that we do not yet fully understand and can't measure. I am neither believer nor skeptic. I sure would like to know though.

Experiences of unexplainable events don't have to attach to a proposed spiritual event.

 

[Sunshine]

No, and I find it incredibly embarrassing to find myself within earshot of someone who claims to have seen a ghost in person, and that they shared a 'connection'. It's rather like listening to a man claim that he's sleeping with a woman everyone present knows, without a doubt, that he's not, but prefers not to say anything to avoid causing a scene.

Though having said all that, I'll admit to being slightly superstitious and often contemplate the possibility of life after death. I dunno, I suppose I've just contradicted myself in one single breath. At any rate, I've never gone ghost hunting and regard ghost hunting programmes with an extreme level of scepticism, seeing as most of the guests/hunters act like they're a few slices short of a loaf, so to speak.

But you see, my experience has been just the opposite. While I cannot claim a personal experience with a ghost, ALL the people who have expressed their opinion to me that they did see or encounter an otherwise unexplainable presence have been people I trust implicitly to be honest, reasonable, unexcitable, and not given to fantasy or hallucinations.

So that leave me in a quandary. They were all either 'seeing things' or they saw the unexplainable.

So, I am inclined to believe that there is something there that we do not yet fully understand and can't measure. I am neither believer nor skeptic. I sure would like to know though.

Experiences of unexplainable events don't have to attach to a proposed spiritual event.

You are quite right. It took me the longest time to figure out how the lizards were getting into my house!~

 

[Ropey]

But you see, my experience has been just the opposite. While I cannot claim a personal experience with a ghost, ALL the people who have expressed their opinion to me that they did see or encounter an otherwise unexplainable presence have been people I trust implicitly to be honest, reasonable, unexcitable, and not given to fantasy or hallucinations.

So that leave me in a quandary. They were all either 'seeing things' or they saw the unexplainable.

So, I am inclined to believe that there is something there that we do not yet fully understand and can't measure. I am neither believer nor skeptic. I sure would like to know though.

Experiences of unexplainable events don't have to attach to a proposed spiritual event.

You are quite right. It took me the longest time to figure out how the lizards were getting into my house!~

 

[earlycuyler]

There are sounds which our ears cannot hear. Why would it not be conceivable that there are sights that our eyes cannot see?

OH, I forgot a comment on the Ouija. I think as long as it is just a game and you are playing for fun, it is just a game. But if you get serious about serious things like your hour of death, it conjures up the devil!

Well I don't know if I had any encounters with the devil or not.

Sometimes when working late at night, I have the radio on in the background. At 11 pm and running to something like 4 in the morning is a program called "Coast to Coast" hosted by a George Noury during the week and Ian Pondit (I think) on the weekends. Occasionally they run old shows of a former host "Art Bell" and those old shows, sometimes ten years old, are still really good.

All three guys often feature people and also have callers who share encounters with ghosts, extra terrestrials, spirits, and have other paranormal experiences. They have so-called experts who sound so credible sharing recordings of voices of the ghosts they encounter and reporting other eerie experiences. If the hosts are not believers, they never let on.

I will admit to listening to most of this with a good deal of skepticism, but it makes for good radio and every now and then I am intrigued.

They often use CUSCO as their bumper music too and it is awesome.

I like Coast to Coast. I am scared to listen to those ghost stories tho. Art Bell is such a freak.

I loved Art Bell. When I was driving OTR I had to pee real bad. Most drivers just piss in a bottle. but I just never could bring my self to do it. I pulled over to act like I was inspecting my trailer, got out, took leak and decided to walk around the truck. I was so creaped out I never made it all the way around.