Get rid bike helmets

[tonystewart1]

Guilty confession

I dont ride bikes but do ride 4 wheelers and dirt bikes and never wear a helmet. I dont even own one.

 

[dilloduck]

If you really want to save lives make it mandatory to wear helmets in cars. Race car driers have to wear them, why not John Q Public? Too inconvenient?

Why just cars ? If people wore them all the time they would be safer. Pedestrians need protection too.

( and dogs---dogs should have to wear them too)

 

[Quantum Windbag]

then dont wear a helmet, but to think they wont help is moronic.

Did anyone watch the fucking video? I know Ravi didn't, she posted to fast, and responded with a link that was totally off topic. The rest of you have no fucking excuse though.

as a former and soon to e starting up again( when my son is old enough) bike rider.
I know a helmet can save your life, but even still it was my choice to not wear one.
To sit there and claim that a helmet is more dangerous is utterly stupid.
Will a helmet save your life? Maybe, it depends. Getting hit by a car at 45 miles an hour head on wont really matter if you do or not.

you some common sense for once.

People also know that evolutions is a lie, global warming is not happening, and lots of other things that are not true. I prefer to go with science, not common sense.

 

[G.T.]

Where did I say anything about being required to wear helmets? I think the response to this thread is 99% based on false defense against false outrage that doesn't exist.

"It is not, however, the business of the government to protect me from them." - Quantum Windbag


So, who is requiring you to wear a helmet in Government? Ravi's question has relevance, afterall.

 

[Ravi]

QW doesn't even ride a bike.

The guy is a nut.

 

[Sallow]

I have a bicycle and I wear a helmet.

It's really very simple.

 

[rightwinger]

then dont wear a helmet, but to think they wont help is moronic.

Did anyone watch the fucking video? I know Ravi didn't, she posted to fast, and responded with a link that was totally off topic. The rest of you have no fucking excuse though.

as a former and soon to e starting up again( when my son is old enough) bike rider.
I know a helmet can save your life, but even still it was my choice to not wear one.
To sit there and claim that a helmet is more dangerous is utterly stupid.
Will a helmet save your life? Maybe, it depends. Getting hit by a car at 45 miles an hour head on wont really matter if you do or not.

you some common sense for once.

Maybe so...

But it beats hitting a storm grate and hitting your head on a curb and being a vegetable the rest of your life

 

[dblack]

Ok, the bolded part is just plain silly. It's like implying, because there's a strong correlation between injuries and wearing a parachute, that parachutes themselves are dangerous, and not the jumping out of airplanes. The people most likely to wear bike helmets are those doing the most dangerous stuff. Of course they're going to have more injuries. The question is whether they'd have more or less injuries with or without a helmet.

It is plain silly, even though I pointed out immediately that I was not saying what you are whinging about.

FYI, the statistics show that the more people wear helmets, the more likely it is they will get hurt. Head injuries actually increase with helmet use, even when cycling rates remain constant. Again, I am not blaming the helmets, just pointing out that the hype about them being effective is overblown.

This is about the hype and science, hence me posting it in science and technology. The consistent outrage and misunderstanding of the point demonstrates that being anti science is completely bipartisan, and even extends to otherwise intelligent people.

...

Human nature makes people hold onto opinions even when new facts are presented. I have the same problem, and work hard to make sure it rarely controls me. You should consider the possibility that, just because you know helmets make you safer, it does not mean that they always work, or even work more often than not.

I guess I'm not clear on what you're getting at. Of course there's a lot of bad inference drawn from scientific data, and we should always question it. But the suggestion that a correlation between the number of bicycle injuries and helmet use proves anything about the wisdom of an individual wearing a helmet is exactly the kind of bad inference we should try to avoid. Were you just providing that as an example? A case in point of how NOT to use statistical data?

 

[dblack]

FWIW, i'm generally in favor of what the guy from the vid in the OP is trying to do. The culture of fear pushed on us by those who seek to control us should be challenged. Which is why I find it disappointing that he does so using the same 'bad science' approach often favored by insurance companies and government (i.e. the correlation between helmet usage and injuries).

Maybe he's going for irony.

 

[dilloduck]

Did anyone watch the fucking video? I know Ravi didn't, she posted to fast, and responded with a link that was totally off topic. The rest of you have no fucking excuse though.

as a former and soon to e starting up again( when my son is old enough) bike rider.
I know a helmet can save your life, but even still it was my choice to not wear one.
To sit there and claim that a helmet is more dangerous is utterly stupid.
Will a helmet save your life? Maybe, it depends. Getting hit by a car at 45 miles an hour head on wont really matter if you do or not.

you some common sense for once.

Maybe so...

But it beats hitting a storm grate and hitting your head on a curb and being a vegetable the rest of your life

If you are already a vegetable you don't notice anything different.

 

[midcan5]

My wife bought me my first helmet, a black Bell helmet, maybe the first on the market. For a long time she worried that I'd make it home as I road through what are called 'the badlands' in Philly. On some mornings I chatted with the prostitutes still out while waiting for a light or fixing a flat, they often whistled at my svelte legs. LOL

I have fallen many times and probably have lots of broke rib scars to prove it, one hand was smashed so bad my small finger is indented still. In winter I would ride without the helmet as I used hoodies in freezing weather, but when our youngest started cycling I worn the helmet always. The moral of this story is wear the f_ing helmet if you have a brain, if not you're fine. Why, because two years ago on a NJ backroad, a bit tired and riding no hands at 15mph I hit a road sinkhole and fell on my head etc so hard I broke the helmet, and while I drained the elbow bursa many times, my brain is still intact and able to attempt an education of the wingnuts on usmb. I'm still miles ahead of them.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/law-and-justice-system/156165-bicyclists-in-the-usa.html#post3349491
http://www.usmessageboard.com/gener...icyclists-running-red-lights.html#post3628786



PS If fear is a part of you don't ride a bike through a big city or maybe anywhere, you have to ride safe and thinking too much just does't work when the loonies are gabbing, smoking pot, drunk, stupid, or whatever.


"I sit astride life like a bad rider on a horse. I only owe it to the horse's good nature that I am not thrown off at this very moment." Ludwig Wittgenstein
-

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Where did I say anything about being required to wear helmets? I think the response to this thread is 99% based on false defense against false outrage that doesn't exist.

"It is not, however, the business of the government to protect me from them." - Quantum Windbag


So, who is requiring you to wear a helmet in Government? Ravi's question has relevance, afterall.

Really? Do you know that rear view cameras are required in all cars sold next year? That is because almost 300 people are run over by people who are too stupid to check their mirror before backing up, and others are too stupid to get out of the way of a moving car. Does anyone really think rear view cameras are going to fix anyone's stupidity?

The point here is not about helmets, it is about the fear that goes into discussing safety issues at all. I actually posted a video where the man spent quite a bit of time laying out the issues about the urge to bubble wrap people to protect them, and the real negative impact that comes from public awareness campaigns.

Yet posters in this thread keeps focusing on the idea that I am ranting against bicycle helmets. Can you explain that to me? Or the fact that, despite me pointing out that the single study that claims that bicycle helmets are 85% effective, people keep re posting that study?

 

[G.T.]

fail thread, just shrug and admit it, dog

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Ok, the bolded part is just plain silly. It's like implying, because there's a strong correlation between injuries and wearing a parachute, that parachutes themselves are dangerous, and not the jumping out of airplanes. The people most likely to wear bike helmets are those doing the most dangerous stuff. Of course they're going to have more injuries. The question is whether they'd have more or less injuries with or without a helmet.

It is plain silly, even though I pointed out immediately that I was not saying what you are whinging about.

FYI, the statistics show that the more people wear helmets, the more likely it is they will get hurt. Head injuries actually increase with helmet use, even when cycling rates remain constant. Again, I am not blaming the helmets, just pointing out that the hype about them being effective is overblown.

This is about the hype and science, hence me posting it in science and technology. The consistent outrage and misunderstanding of the point demonstrates that being anti science is completely bipartisan, and even extends to otherwise intelligent people.

...

Human nature makes people hold onto opinions even when new facts are presented. I have the same problem, and work hard to make sure it rarely controls me. You should consider the possibility that, just because you know helmets make you safer, it does not mean that they always work, or even work more often than not.

I guess I'm not clear on what you're getting at. Of course there's a lot of bad inference drawn from scientific data, and we should always question it. But the suggestion that a correlation between the number of bicycle injuries and helmet use proves anything about the wisdom of an individual wearing a helmet is exactly the kind of bad inference we should try to avoid. Were you just providing that as an example? A case in point of how NOT to use statistical data?

Did you read the link I posted, or watch the video?

The point of this thread is about the culture of fear that leads to marketing and promoting bicycle helmets. Riding a bike is statistically safer than walking down the street, yet no one is talking about pedestrian helmets.

Yet.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

FWIW, i'm generally in favor of what the guy from the vid in the OP is trying to do. The culture of fear pushed on us by those who seek to control us should be challenged. Which is why I find it disappointing that he does so using the same 'bad science' approach often favored by insurance companies and government (i.e. the correlation between helmet usage and injuries).

Maybe he's going for irony.

I specifically pointed out there is no correlation, yet you worry about something that no one is pointing to.

It is, nonetheless, a statistical certainty that bicycle helmet usage does not prevent significant brain injury. If it did there would be a noticeable drop in injuries as helmet use goes up, even if people were more likely to do crazy things while wearing a helmet. Pointing out that the opposite happens is not trying to correlate helmet use and brain injury, it is pointing out that they do not work.

I believe the statistics about motorcycle helmets and brain injuries actually show a drop when helmet use goes up. That proves they work, even though there is solid evidence that they increase the chances of neck injuries.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

fail thread, just shrug and admit it, dog

I keep hoping people will have an actual flash of intelligence. I guess that makes me an optimist.

Or a fool.

 

[G.T.]

fail thread, just shrug and admit it, dog

I keep hoping people will have an actual flash of intelligence. I guess that makes me an optimist.

Or a fool.

i dont nthink you're a fool...

*shrug*

 

[Quantum Windbag]

fail thread, just shrug and admit it, dog

I keep hoping people will have an actual flash of intelligence. I guess that makes me an optimist.

Or a fool.

i dont nthink you're a fool...

*shrug*

 

[syrenn]

Where did I say anything about being required to wear helmets? I think the response to this thread is 99% based on false defense against false outrage that doesn't exist.

"It is not, however, the business of the government to protect me from them." - Quantum Windbag


So, who is requiring you to wear a helmet in Government? Ravi's question has relevance, afterall.

Really? Do you know that rear view cameras are required in all cars sold next year? That is because almost 300 people are run over by people who are too stupid to check their mirror before backing up, and others are too stupid to get out of the way of a moving car. Does anyone really think rear view cameras are going to fix anyone's stupidity?

The point here is not about helmets, it is about the fear that goes into discussing safety issues at all. I actually posted a video where the man spent quite a bit of time laying out the issues about the urge to bubble wrap people to protect them, and the real negative impact that comes from public awareness campaigns.

Yet posters in this thread keeps focusing on the idea that I am ranting against bicycle helmets. Can you explain that to me? Or the fact that, despite me pointing out that the single study that claims that bicycle helmets are 85% effective, people keep re posting that study?

No... but cameras may perhaps mitigate the amount of accidents bye stupid people who do not look behind when they back up.


As for the helmets.....85% effective is better then 0% effective.

 

[dblack]

I specifically pointed out there is no correlation, yet you worry about something that no one is pointing to.

But you are doing exactly that, in this very post:

It is, nonetheless, a statistical certainty that bicycle helmet usage does not prevent significant brain injury. If it did there would be a noticeable drop in injuries as helmet use goes up, even if people were more likely to do crazy things while wearing a helmet. Pointing out that the opposite happens is not trying to correlate helmet use and brain injury, it is pointing out that they do not work.

I believe the statistics about motorcycle helmets and brain injuries actually show a drop when helmet use goes up. That proves they work, even though there is solid evidence that they increase the chances of neck injuries.

You're taking a statistically correlation that shows people are more likely to suffer injury when wearing a helmet, and trying to offer it as 'statistical certainty that bicycle helmet usage does not prevent significant brain injury', and that doesn't follow. There are any number of reasons why injuries might be more prevalent among people wearing helmets, not the least of which is that those doing dangerous things are more likely to wear a helmet.

But you have to completely deny logical analysis to maintain that you're at more risk wearing a helmet. The only valid question is whether the design of bike helmets actually offer that much protection; there's seems reason to doubt the 'common wisdom' on that one, especially for those kind that just sort of ride on the crown of your head.

Either way, these kinds of statistical correlations say exactly nothing (pro or con) about a helmet's ability to protect a bike rider in a given circumstance. I apologize for being so strident on the issue, but its is a really common fallacy, foisted on us by leaders and advocates from every corner. Statistics can give us some useful information concerning the likeliness of different outcomes, but they don't say squat about the real risk present in a specific circumstance. In other words, once you've fucked up and your head is hitting pavement, you're going to be safer with helmet on.