Georgia Seniors Told They Can't Pray Before Meals

[Si modo]

As I said, the court cases disagree with your opinion on these matters.

Ciitation, please.

The government provided money for food; The People happened to pray.

Just one of several:

Federal Court Strikes Down Louisiana School Prayer Law. - Free Online Library

More importantly, the federal government doesn't have to establish a state religion before the establishment clause comes into effect.

This wouldn't be an issue if individuals were praying. It was an issue because it was a group prayer.

Thanks for that.

A 1999 Louisiana law designed to reintroduce official prayer into public schools is unconstitutional, a federal court has held.
....

[Emphasis added] The People happened to pray. The only official act by the government was to establish funds for food.

 

[boedicca]

Our government has long sought to undo our constitutional protections; this case is a firm violation of the 1st Amendment:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech..."

 

[geauxtohell]

Ciitation, please.

The government provided money for food; The People happened to pray.

Just one of several:

Federal Court Strikes Down Louisiana School Prayer Law. - Free Online Library

More importantly, the federal government doesn't have to establish a state religion before the establishment clause comes into effect.

This wouldn't be an issue if individuals were praying. It was an issue because it was a group prayer.

Thanks for that.

A 1999 Louisiana law designed to reintroduce official prayer into public schools is unconstitutional, a federal court has held.
....

[Emphasis added] The People happened to pray. The only official act by the government was to establish funds for food.

The article is a little vague, but my impression was they were leading an official prayer before the meal.

But Senior Citizens Inc. officials said Friday the meals they are contracted by the city to provide to Ed Young visitors are mostly covered with federal money, which ushers in the burden of separating church and state.

On Thursday, the usual open prayer before meals at the center was traded in for a moment of silence.

The dilemma is being hashed out by the Port Wentworth city attorney, said Mayor Glenn "Pig" Jones.

Tim Rutherford, Senior Citizens Inc. vice president, said some of his staff recently visited the center and noticed people praying shortly before lunch was served. Rutherford said his company provides meals like baked chicken, steak tips and rice and salads at a cost of about $6 a plate. Seniors taking the meals pay 55 cents and federal money foots the rest of the bill, Rutherford said.

"We can't scoff at their rules," he said of federal authorities. "It's a part of the operational guidelines."

If this were individuals praying, it would be different. I don't think it's a terribly big deal either way, but it's a far cry of people being deprived of their liberties (as it is being construed here).

Or if it is, then it should be taken up in the courts.

Anyways, the guy sums it up in the article. If you take the money from the government, you have to play by their rules.

This wouldn't be an issue at a church that was providing meals to seniors out of funds from the congregation.

 

[geauxtohell]

Our government has long sought to undo our constitutional protections; this case is a firm violation of the 1st Amendment:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech..."

Then file suit and see where it gets you.

From where I stand, forcing people to pray or even forcing people to sit through a group prayer session is "establishment of religion".

 

[boedicca]

The prayers were the voluntary activity of the people eating the meals:

Tim Rutherford, Senior Citizens Inc. vice president, said some of his staff recently visited the center and noticed people praying shortly before lunch was served. Rutherford said his company provides meals like baked chicken, steak tips and rice and salads at a cost of about $6 a plate. Seniors taking the meals pay 55 cents and federal money foots the rest of the bill, Rutherford said

....

"Like one lady said, 'You can stop me from speaking, but you can't stop me from praying what's in my heart,"' he said. "But the best answer right now is that we're trying to get the best information possible and legal council is looking at what would happen if we continued to pray."


The Center was not leading or sponsoring the prayers. The individuals involved wish to say their grace out loud.

I suppose if some of them started singing the "mmm mmm mmm Obama" song, that would be fine - but thanking God for their blessings is somehow wrong?

No wonder this country is falling apart.

 

[Ravi]

i could have told you this was going to happen once Faith based Initiatives were passed....the churches and religious were selling their souls to the Devil, just for gvt money......

Yes...this is very true.

 

[geauxtohell]

The prayers were the voluntary activity of the people eating the meals:

Tim Rutherford, Senior Citizens Inc. vice president, said some of his staff recently visited the center and noticed people praying shortly before lunch was served. Rutherford said his company provides meals like baked chicken, steak tips and rice and salads at a cost of about $6 a plate. Seniors taking the meals pay 55 cents and federal money foots the rest of the bill, Rutherford said

....

"Like one lady said, 'You can stop me from speaking, but you can't stop me from praying what's in my heart,"' he said. "But the best answer right now is that we're trying to get the best information possible and legal council is looking at what would happen if we continued to pray."


The Center was not leading or sponsoring the prayers. The individuals involved wish to say their grace out loud.

As I said, the article is a little vague. I doubt that anybody would have objected to individuals praying to themselves. If that's the case, then I agree this is wrong.

When it's an issue of time being set aside for a group prayer session and people are praying out loud, then it's a separate issue.

I suppose if some of them started singing the "mmm mmm mmm Obama" song, that would be fine - but thanking God for their blessings is somehow wrong?

No wonder this country is falling apart.

Pointless digression.

 

[boedicca]

No, it's not.

We have a crisis of values in this country. When people are not allowed to say grace before meals while our government is spending us into bankruptcy, failing to protect our borders, enacting programs which make structural unemployment hit European levels...it's very accurate to say this country is falling apart.

 

[geauxtohell]

No, it's not.

We have a crisis of values in this country. When people are not allowed to say grace before meals while our government is spending us into bankruptcy, failing to protect our borders, enacting programs which make structural unemployment hit European levels...it's very accurate to say this country is falling apart.

Did you support Iraq?

Because if you are going to talk of values and bankruptcy out of one side of your mouth while supporting a war the deaths of thousands of innocents, the destruction of homes, and cost us a shit-ton of money that we borrowed from the Chinese out of the other, I am going to think you are F.O.S.

 

[Anguille]

[Emphasis added] The People happened to pray. The only official act by the government was to establish funds for food.

Get real. It's no coincidence all these people all pray at the same time, it's an organized act. Of the type that is prohibited at government sponsored events.

 

[Newby]

Georgia Seniors Told They Can't Pray Before Meals
"It's interpreted that we're telling people that they can't pray, but we aren't saying that," he said. "We're asking them to pray to themselves. Have that moment of silence."

I guess you didn't read your own article.

Why is it some people can't pray unless they do it out loud with other people? Even when some of those other people are offended by the sometimes obvious attempt to make those who don't participate feel like outcasts?

Isn't prayer supposed to be between God and the individual? Isn't using it as a tool to control people an offense to God?

They should be able to pray how and when they damn well please. Why is up to you to dictate how or when people pray?

 

[Newby]

Halal Meals On Wheels

Program, believed to be first in nation, caters to homebound Muslims in Wayne County

ACCESS launched a program to feed seniors in a community setting a few years ago, but funding ran out. Talab worked to launch the program for shut-ins with the Senior Alliance, Area Agency on Aging 1C in Wayne, which runs a $3 million program that feeds seniors in 34 communities throughout western and southern Wayne County.

But unlike traditional Meals on Wheels, the halal meals are not delivered by volunteers. Food is provided by Midamar, a national halal food distributor based in Iowa. Meals are then assembled by Mom’s Meals, another Iowa company that mails meals to seniors in rural areas and other hard-to-reach places.

Mom’s Meals ships a two-week supply of halal meals in coolers to qualifying seniors via FedEx. The meals, which cost about $7 to prepare and ship, include entrees such as chicken biryani, lentil stew with ground lamb and Italian chicken.

The program is small but organizers expect it to grow.

The Area Agency on Aging has contracted with Mom’s Meals for three years, renewable at the end of each year based on performance, for $100,000 annually. The program was funded with federal dollars for programs for older Americans funneled through the state, said Bob Brown, executive director for the Senior Alliance.

I can't help but wonder if these Muslims were spoken to about their prayer.

of course not!

We exempt Muslims from the idiotic restrictions we place on Christians.

Reminder: I am an atheist and I don't care if some old lady says grace before her meal even if my tax dollars subsidize it and neither should anyone else. I don't care if it says "In God We Trust" on our money. I don't care if the fucking president says "God Bless America"

All I want is some fucking common sense but I would settle for some consistency instead of the utterly ridiculous hypocritical tripe that we seem to get constantly.

I am an atheist too and I also don't care if some old lady says grace before her meal. I've also patiently sat through many silly grace rituals and am not so much offended as I find them amusing. But I certainly do not want my tax dollars paying for any of these goofy group prayer sessions.

So, in other words you're judgmental and condescending to those of faith? What happened to respect for other's beliefs?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

...

For god's sake. It's Georgia!

 

[Angelhair]

What? Since when has praying needed an audience??? Pray silently - NOBODY can stop one from doing THAT!!!

 

[Newby]

I've noticed that many religious people, particularly Christians, have boundary issues. Have respect for other people's religions or lack of.

What irritates me is the lack of respect for the Christian religion.

For some Christians it's never enough that we bend over backwards to accommodate them. Give them an inch and they take a yard. It's not so much that they are Christian though, it's that they have mental issues and are control freaks.

Ironic, because that's pretty much exactly how I view you.

 

[Newby]

What? Since when has praying needed an audience??? Pray silently - NOBODY can stop one from doing THAT!!!

But, they do have a right to stop you from praying out loud? Is that what you're implying?

 

[boedicca]

Did you support Iraq?

Because if you are going to talk of values and bankruptcy out of one side of your mouth while supporting a war the deaths of thousands of innocents, the destruction of homes, and cost us a shit-ton of money that we borrowed from the Chinese out of the other, I am going to think you are F.O.S.

What a disingenuous comment.

You think that citing something you think is wrong is a justification for a further wrong?

Grow up.

 

[Truthmatters]

The thread titile is a lie.

They can pray if they want and the people who dont want to pray are not forced to listen to someone else force religion on them.



Everyones rights are protected here

 

[Newby]

They can pray. It's just not an organized prayer.

Or they could always refuse funding.

No, I heard this argued on the radio today, they can't pray period!

The first amendment protects the free practice of religion, not the freedom from religion. Christians built this nation and believe it or not they help more with charity and voluntary work then any other people.

It's amazing that we placate Muslims with allowing them to take driver license pictures with hijabs and burqua. Hell, liberal antiChristian universities even gave into their demands to use university tuition dollar to built foot baths in public restrooms!

Give me a fucking break. If these were antiamerican Muslims (Yes not all Muslims are antiAmerican in fact many are pro-American) praying for America's downfall before they broke bread, the administration wouldn't do anything but protect their rights. In fact, if the administration told them to stop. You would have the ACLU, Jesse Jackson, CAIR and Sharpton bringing lawsuits and threatening boycotts!

The atheist assholes (which I am one) need to be truthful and say they are not at war with religion. That they don't desire freedom from religion. Rather they are at war with Christianity and YES they have turned into the intolerant BASTARDS that they proclaim they are fighting against!

Christians aren't the problem in this battle. Its atheist pushing their believes on others. I personally think the idea of God is old and outdated. That even though I am glad that many people have the belief in a higher power to set them on the right track (specifically in AA), but I can't live a lie and believe in something I think is folklore.

Nevertheless, who am I to push my beliefs onto believers. Who am I to say, a nation under god hurts my atheist ears. Who am I to say that people can't pray before eating a meal. That is what they believe and they shouldn't be PERSECUTED for what they believe, as I shouldn't be persecuted for what I don't believe!

Well said.

 

[Againsheila]

Praying out loud is exclusive and disrespectful. Silence is inclusive and respectful.

How is my praying aloud with my friends, disrespectful to you?