Gay marriage vs. pulygamy

[Brain357]

Here is an interesting link:
Polygamy Is Bad for Women - NYTimes.com
Far from polygamy being beneficial to women, it usually is anathema to women's economic, social and emotional well-being. No wonder the feminist Council on Women’s Status of Quebec also opposed polygamy in Canada.

 

[Jarlaxle]

The argument for gay marriage is the equal right to marry who you love. Well?

well, what?

Not that there are enough people out there really advocating for polygamy, but as long as everyone is a consenting adult, I don't have a problem with it.

I actually agree with JoeB131

You know, of course, that doing so means you are automatically wrong?

Yes.

If you read the rest of post, you would see that the entire thing was irony.

I know...but I just could not pass up THAT hanging curveball.

 

[Papageorgio]

It will be as equal as marriages are now. There are two people and they come to a decision. Is the man always the one who makes the decisions in a standard marriage? (if you say yes it will show you have never been married)

He seems to be the one who does in polygamy marriages. They have a pretty poor history. Cults marrying under age children. Disgusting really.

Wow, trot out your bigotry and ignorance for all to see.

Wasn't this a reason some said gays shouldn't be allowed to get married?

Have you forgotten about this guy among others? Are you suggesting it isn't disgusting?
Jailed Polygamist Leader Warren Jeffs Issues Hundreds of Orders From Prison - ABC News
A raid in 2008 on the group's Yearning for Zion compound in Eldorado, Texas, brought the FLDS community into the national spotlight. Authorities found a polygamous community and pregnant child brides. Pictures of women in pastel prairie clothes with tightly braided hairstyles and stories of the controlling, male-dominated environment offered the world a glimpse into the lives of the reclusive group.

If you are going to suggest we make polygamy legal we should look at how it is for those already practicing.

I never said it wasn't disgusting, we're talking consenting adults, not children. Several gays have been charged and convicted of being pedophiles. You are really a drama queen.

Drama queen? I guess abuse of women and children is not that serious for you. It is for me. I guess I shouldn't be surprised since you think relatives should also be able to marry.

It is no more or less serious for you than it is for me, quit playing silly games and stick to the issues. Several gays have been convicted of being pedophiles, so your excuses is just that. I would bet pedophilia in the general population is the same as it is in polygamy.

You are sounding like a homophobe when gay marriage came up.

Remember, we are talking consenting adults. No force.

 

[WinterBorn]

Here is an interesting link:
Polygamy Is Bad for Women - NYTimes.com
Far from polygamy being beneficial to women, it usually is anathema to women's economic, social and emotional well-being. No wonder the feminist Council on Women’s Status of Quebec also opposed polygamy in Canada.

The problem with that article is that it claims polygamy is bad for women, but then only discusses polygyny.

They only talk about marriages with one man and multiple wives. Of course that is not equality. But that is also not polygamy.

 

[Brain357]

Here is an interesting link:
Polygamy Is Bad for Women - NYTimes.com
Far from polygamy being beneficial to women, it usually is anathema to women's economic, social and emotional well-being. No wonder the feminist Council on Women’s Status of Quebec also opposed polygamy in Canada.

The problem with that article is that it claims polygamy is bad for women, but then only discusses polygyny.

They only talk about marriages with one man and multiple wives. Of course that is not equality. But that is also not polygamy.

Based on history, the current state of polygamy, and biology that is what I would expect the majority to be. Do you have some reason to believe it wouldn't be? People moved away from polygamy for a reason. It has a real bad history. So far I've heard no good reason to think that moving back is a good idea.

 

[Flopper]

I don't see how that responds to my point. It won't be an equal relationship.

It will be as equal as marriages are now. There are two people and they come to a decision. Is the man always the one who makes the decisions in a standard marriage? (if you say yes it will show you have never been married)

He seems to be the one who does in polygamy marriages. They have a pretty poor history. Cults marrying under age children. Disgusting really.

Wow, trot out your bigotry and ignorance for all to see.

Wasn't this a reason some said gays shouldn't be allowed to get married?

Have you forgotten about this guy among others? Are you suggesting it isn't disgusting?
Jailed Polygamist Leader Warren Jeffs Issues Hundreds of Orders From Prison - ABC News
A raid in 2008 on the group's Yearning for Zion compound in Eldorado, Texas, brought the FLDS community into the national spotlight. Authorities found a polygamous community and pregnant child brides. Pictures of women in pastel prairie clothes with tightly braided hairstyles and stories of the controlling, male-dominated environment offered the world a glimpse into the lives of the reclusive group.

If you are going to suggest we make polygamy legal we should look at how it is for those already practicing.

I never said it wasn't disgusting, we're talking consenting adults, not children. Several gays have been charged and convicted of being pedophiles. You are really a drama queen.

Unfortunately child brides are common in polygamist marriages. The favorite age seems to be 15 although 12 and 13 year-olds are not uncommon. Polygamy is about power, domination, and breeding.

 

[Flopper]

Here is an interesting link:
Polygamy Is Bad for Women - NYTimes.com
Far from polygamy being beneficial to women, it usually is anathema to women's economic, social and emotional well-being. No wonder the feminist Council on Women’s Status of Quebec also opposed polygamy in Canada.

The problem with that article is that it claims polygamy is bad for women, but then only discusses polygyny.

They only talk about marriages with one man and multiple wives. Of course that is not equality. But that is also not polygamy.

Based on history, the current state of polygamy, and biology that is what I would expect the majority to be. Do you have some reason to believe it wouldn't be? People moved away from polygamy for a reason. It has a real bad history. So far I've heard no good reason to think that moving back is a good idea.

I don't think there should be any concern that polygamy will every become popular in the US even it is made legal which is very unlikely.

 

[PratchettFan]

Marriage is between two people, you can just marry multiple people. Come on, think and stop being silly.

So you are saying guy married woman A, then married woman B. But the women are not married?

If it works like the poly relationships do, it would depend on the people to decide. It could be that the man has two wives, and yet the wives are not married to each other. Or it could be that all three are joined into one unit.

Granted, the later would truly redefine marriage. But I have no real qualms about that, insofar as the gov't goes.

So the man is in critical condition in a coma. What wife makes his medical decisions? Financial decisions?

That's up to them. Not really any of your concern.

Sure lawmakers will waste time rewriting everything. Door will be wide open for abuse of benefits. Employers and financials institutions will have to make changes. Courts will be busy with all this silliness. The ratio of men to women may be thrown off. But hey why should I care.

You can care about anything you like. It just isn't your concern. How people want to complicate their lives is their business. So long as the government is in the marriage business, they need to treat everyone equally.

 

[PratchettFan]

Here is an interesting link:
Polygamy Is Bad for Women - NYTimes.com
Far from polygamy being beneficial to women, it usually is anathema to women's economic, social and emotional well-being. No wonder the feminist Council on Women’s Status of Quebec also opposed polygamy in Canada.

So the solution is to turn them into outlaws so they have no access to the protection of the law.

 

[PratchettFan]

Here is an interesting link:
Polygamy Is Bad for Women - NYTimes.com
Far from polygamy being beneficial to women, it usually is anathema to women's economic, social and emotional well-being. No wonder the feminist Council on Women’s Status of Quebec also opposed polygamy in Canada.

The problem with that article is that it claims polygamy is bad for women, but then only discusses polygyny.

They only talk about marriages with one man and multiple wives. Of course that is not equality. But that is also not polygamy.

Based on history, the current state of polygamy, and biology that is what I would expect the majority to be. Do you have some reason to believe it wouldn't be? People moved away from polygamy for a reason. It has a real bad history. So far I've heard no good reason to think that moving back is a good idea.

I don't think there should be any concern that polygamy will every become popular in the US even it is made legal which is very unlikely.

Very unlikely. I can't imagine doing it myself. However, the basic idea of equality under the law is that a small minority is not denied the ability to live their life as they choose simply because the majority don't approve of their decision. You can't protect a woman you have chased underground. You can't help children when you turn their parents into outlaws. People are going to live according to their own standards, so we should bring it into the light to make sure no one is mistreated. Not shove them into the dark and pretend we are helping.

 

[Jarhead]

Here is an interesting link:
Polygamy Is Bad for Women - NYTimes.com
Far from polygamy being beneficial to women, it usually is anathema to women's economic, social and emotional well-being. No wonder the feminist Council on Women’s Status of Quebec also opposed polygamy in Canada.

So the solution is to turn them into outlaws so they have no access to the protection of the law.

why would they have no access to the protection of the law?

 

[PratchettFan]

Here is an interesting link:
Polygamy Is Bad for Women - NYTimes.com
Far from polygamy being beneficial to women, it usually is anathema to women's economic, social and emotional well-being. No wonder the feminist Council on Women’s Status of Quebec also opposed polygamy in Canada.

So the solution is to turn them into outlaws so they have no access to the protection of the law.

why would they have no access to the protection of the law?

Because they are breaking the law. Would you go to the cops if someone stole your stash of illegal drugs?

 

[Jarhead]

Here is an interesting link:
Polygamy Is Bad for Women - NYTimes.com
Far from polygamy being beneficial to women, it usually is anathema to women's economic, social and emotional well-being. No wonder the feminist Council on Women’s Status of Quebec also opposed polygamy in Canada.

So the solution is to turn them into outlaws so they have no access to the protection of the law.

why would they have no access to the protection of the law?

Because they are breaking the law. Would you go to the cops if someone stole your stash of illegal drugs?

Poor analogy...

How about this...

If I were a drug user and someone stole my wallet....would I go to the cops?

Yes.

Why would someone practicing polygamy be afraid to go to the police if he or she was robbed...or in a car accident....or had a heart attack?

 

[PratchettFan]

Here is an interesting link:
Polygamy Is Bad for Women - NYTimes.com
Far from polygamy being beneficial to women, it usually is anathema to women's economic, social and emotional well-being. No wonder the feminist Council on Women’s Status of Quebec also opposed polygamy in Canada.

So the solution is to turn them into outlaws so they have no access to the protection of the law.

why would they have no access to the protection of the law?

Because they are breaking the law. Would you go to the cops if someone stole your stash of illegal drugs?

Poor analogy...

How about this...

If I were a drug user and someone stole my wallet....would I go to the cops?

Yes.

Why would someone practicing polygamy be afraid to go to the police if he or she was robbed...or in a car accident....or had a heart attack?

If you are being mistreated in an illegal marriage and going to the police meant your children went to the state and the other people in the marriage went to jail (including you) would you seek help from the law? People are talking about harm to women and children arising from polygamy, not armed robbery.

 

[Skylar]

Here is an interesting link:
Polygamy Is Bad for Women - NYTimes.com
Far from polygamy being beneficial to women, it usually is anathema to women's economic, social and emotional well-being. No wonder the feminist Council on Women’s Status of Quebec also opposed polygamy in Canada.

So the solution is to turn them into outlaws so they have no access to the protection of the law.

why would they have no access to the protection of the law?

Because they are breaking the law. Would you go to the cops if someone stole your stash of illegal drugs?

Poor analogy...

How about this...

If I were a drug user and someone stole my wallet....would I go to the cops?

Yes.

Why would someone practicing polygamy be afraid to go to the police if he or she was robbed...or in a car accident....or had a heart attack?

Depends. In the case of polygamists, they live in a condition that could get them arrested. With their best protection being that law enforcement doesn't know about them. A decent analogy would be an illegal immigrant. They would be reluctant to inform the police of crimes committed against them on the valid concern that with just a little bit of digging, those same police may become aware of their violation of the law.

In certain states like Utah it was illegal for a man to cohabitate with multiple women. If a man was found doing this, he could be arrested for polygamy. If his house were burglarized, he would be understandably reluctant to call the police to report it due to the fear that police who visit his home would become aware of his illegal housing arrangement.

Crimes that didn't involve the home would probably be less of a concern. But still draw attention to a polygamist in a way that they would likely seek to avoid.

Its a serious problem among illegal immigrant populations. And there's no reason to think it wouldn't similarly be an issue for polygamists given the similarity of their relationship with law enforcement.

 

[Brain357]

So you are saying guy married woman A, then married woman B. But the women are not married?

If it works like the poly relationships do, it would depend on the people to decide. It could be that the man has two wives, and yet the wives are not married to each other. Or it could be that all three are joined into one unit.

Granted, the later would truly redefine marriage. But I have no real qualms about that, insofar as the gov't goes.

So the man is in critical condition in a coma. What wife makes his medical decisions? Financial decisions?

That's up to them. Not really any of your concern.

Sure lawmakers will waste time rewriting everything. Door will be wide open for abuse of benefits. Employers and financials institutions will have to make changes. Courts will be busy with all this silliness. The ratio of men to women may be thrown off. But hey why should I care.

You can care about anything you like. It just isn't your concern. How people want to complicate their lives is their business. So long as the government is in the marriage business, they need to treat everyone equally.

It is illegal now and there is no reason to change that. History has proven it is bad, that is why society moved away from it.

 

[Skylar]

Here is an interesting link:
Polygamy Is Bad for Women - NYTimes.com
Far from polygamy being beneficial to women, it usually is anathema to women's economic, social and emotional well-being. No wonder the feminist Council on Women’s Status of Quebec also opposed polygamy in Canada.

The problem with that article is that it claims polygamy is bad for women, but then only discusses polygyny.

They only talk about marriages with one man and multiple wives. Of course that is not equality. But that is also not polygamy.

Based on history, the current state of polygamy, and biology that is what I would expect the majority to be. Do you have some reason to believe it wouldn't be? People moved away from polygamy for a reason. It has a real bad history. So far I've heard no good reason to think that moving back is a good idea.

I don't think there should be any concern that polygamy will every become popular in the US even it is made legal which is very unlikely.

Most men and women are far too proprietary for polygamy. Usually, the only way you can convince a woman that its a good idea is religion or financial need.

 

[PratchettFan]

If it works like the poly relationships do, it would depend on the people to decide. It could be that the man has two wives, and yet the wives are not married to each other. Or it could be that all three are joined into one unit.

Granted, the later would truly redefine marriage. But I have no real qualms about that, insofar as the gov't goes.

So the man is in critical condition in a coma. What wife makes his medical decisions? Financial decisions?

That's up to them. Not really any of your concern.

Sure lawmakers will waste time rewriting everything. Door will be wide open for abuse of benefits. Employers and financials institutions will have to make changes. Courts will be busy with all this silliness. The ratio of men to women may be thrown off. But hey why should I care.

You can care about anything you like. It just isn't your concern. How people want to complicate their lives is their business. So long as the government is in the marriage business, they need to treat everyone equally.

It is illegal now and there is no reason to change that. History has proven it is bad, that is why society moved away from it.

It was illegal for people of different races to marry before. No reason to change that. Except that old fashioned concept of equal protection under the law. But hell, who gives a damn about that so long as it isn't you being discriminated against. Right?

 

[Brain357]

So the man is in critical condition in a coma. What wife makes his medical decisions? Financial decisions?

That's up to them. Not really any of your concern.

Sure lawmakers will waste time rewriting everything. Door will be wide open for abuse of benefits. Employers and financials institutions will have to make changes. Courts will be busy with all this silliness. The ratio of men to women may be thrown off. But hey why should I care.

You can care about anything you like. It just isn't your concern. How people want to complicate their lives is their business. So long as the government is in the marriage business, they need to treat everyone equally.

It is illegal now and there is no reason to change that. History has proven it is bad, that is why society moved away from it.

It was illegal for people of different races to marry before. No reason to change that. Except that old fashioned concept of equal protection under the law. But hell, who gives a damn about that so long as it isn't you being discriminated against. Right?

There wasn't a long history of abuse with different races marrying. We do however have a long history of abuse of women and children with polygamy. Quite the huge difference. There is a reason modern society moved away from polygamy, there is no reason to go back now.

 

[Flopper]

Here is an interesting link:
Polygamy Is Bad for Women - NYTimes.com
Far from polygamy being beneficial to women, it usually is anathema to women's economic, social and emotional well-being. No wonder the feminist Council on Women’s Status of Quebec also opposed polygamy in Canada.

The problem with that article is that it claims polygamy is bad for women, but then only discusses polygyny.

They only talk about marriages with one man and multiple wives. Of course that is not equality. But that is also not polygamy.

Based on history, the current state of polygamy, and biology that is what I would expect the majority to be. Do you have some reason to believe it wouldn't be? People moved away from polygamy for a reason. It has a real bad history. So far I've heard no good reason to think that moving back is a good idea.

I don't think there should be any concern that polygamy will every become popular in the US even it is made legal which is very unlikely.

Very unlikely. I can't imagine doing it myself. However, the basic idea of equality under the law is that a small minority is not denied the ability to live their life as they choose simply because the majority don't approve of their decision. You can't protect a woman you have chased underground. You can't help children when you turn their parents into outlaws. People are going to live according to their own standards, so we should bring it into the light to make sure no one is mistreated. Not shove them into the dark and pretend we are helping.

A good point, however let me point out to you that the legal definition of minorities in the context of constitutional guarantees are identifiable and specially disadvantage groups such as those based on race, sex, religion and national origin. People that want to have multiple wives may be small in number but they're not legally a minority.

However, there are many types of rights, legal, constitutional, ethical, and social. When a large majority of the citizens feel some group is being treated unfairly and they should have the right to do something, then eventually, the courts, or the legislation will act. It might take just a few years or it may take a hundred years but eventually it will happen. A good example is gay marriage, or women s suffrage. If enough people felt that men should have the right to marry more than one woman, then it would happen. However since women slightly out number men in the US the chance of that happening is pretty small.

By the same token if enough people feel that rights guaranteed to some group should be removed, then it will happen. Good examples are the internment of the Japanese-Americans during WWII and terrorist being held under the patriot act.