Frozen electric cars, -25 C

Discussion in 'Energy' started by Old Rocks, Jan 8, 2018.

  1. Sunni Man
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    Sunni Man Diamond Member

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    You can run the heater, but it's electric and runs off the batteries. Which further reduces the driving range of the car. ... :cool:
     
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  2. Viacheslav
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    Viacheslav VIP Member

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    From my point of view, you exaggerate and slightly distort the facts. "Dependence" on oil companies will change to "dependence" on "lithium" companies, and we will always be "dependent" on some companies.

    But for this you have to pay more than if you were "dependent" on the oil companies.

    Perhaps if the technical revolution in the field of energy and batteries happens in our lifetime
     
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  3. Old Rocks
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    Old Rocks Diamond Member

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    Some strides being made as we post on sodium batteries. As far as being dependent on 'some companies', these are occasional purchases, versus the every week purchase of fuel. And, depending where you are at, if you do much of the work yourself, solar can pay off in as little as thee years.

    I find it amusing that you would say a technical revolution in energy and batteries in our lifetime. I was born in 1943, I have seen a technical revolution in those fields in my lifetime. And expect to live to see another, at the pace they are innovating in this field at present.
     
  4. Viacheslav
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    Viacheslav VIP Member

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    I read about sodium batteries in 2013 http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ja406016j

    But still you have to buy batteries from "some companies", and then you have to pay for processing the old battery, and I'm sure that "some companies" will use the environmental lobby to pass laws on mandatory "environmental" taxes from electric vehicle owners.

    But for "most of the vehicles being made to be EV's". "We" need to find the energy for charging, just imagine in your region a million EV, which means that the power system must be ready for the fact that all electric vehicles will be charged at one time and if the average charging power is 30kW / h (2-3 hours for charging), it will be necessary to have a capacity of 30 GW / h and for it should be revolution in the field of energy or we will "burn" much more fossil fuels to generate energy. And current batteries are still insufficient to drive out cars with an internal combustion engine and moreover, if all the subsidies and benefits for electric vehicles will be removed , then this industry may even collapse.
     
  5. Old Rocks
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    Old Rocks Diamond Member

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    That the EV industry depends on subsidies is something I find laughable. A top end Tesla S, a P100D will run you up to $160,000. They are not buying that car because they get a $7,500 subsidy. They are buying it because it is one of the fastest cars in the world, And it is made right here in America. And it is the cutting edge technology. They will not buy a Tesla Roadster 2.0 because of a $7,500 subsidy, they will buy it because it is the fastest production car in the world, and costs 1/2 to 1/10 of the cost of it's closest ICE competition.
     
  6. HenryBHough
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    HenryBHough Gold Member Supporting Member

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    Friends who lived in Fairbanks (Alaska, liberals) bought an early Pious or whatever they're called. It ran at -40 degrees far enough to get the kids to school. Back, too.....but ONLY if Mom did NOT run the electric heater. OK, so only 12 miles....but with the heater on it quit moving at 10 miles...two miles short of getting her home on the backhaul. She adapted. Then the family moved to Iowa where it's a little warmer. Dunno how far it would have run had she never used the heater - none of the places she routinely went were more than about 20 miles from home and she didn't go to any of them once the temp went below -5. Just out of a sense of caution and self-preservation.
     
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  7. Viacheslav
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    Viacheslav VIP Member

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    Tesla S and Tesla Roadster are not interesting, because they are expensive "toys" for a very narrow market. But look at Tesla3 and subsidies of $ 7,500 look very attractive, and for example in Norvia spent $ 5 billion of subsidies to support EV
     
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  8. Old Rocks
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    Old Rocks Diamond Member

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    LOL The Prius is a hybrid, has a gas engine. And many cars have a problem starting in very cold weather. Simple solution, put a small heater or lamp in the engine compartment when it is that cold.

    Now as for it stopping moving after 10 miles, that has nothing to do with the cold, as by then, the gas engine should have been running a while. That, or this whole story is a fabrication.
     
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  9. Old Rocks
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    Old Rocks Diamond Member

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    The Roadster is a toy, albeit an inexpensive ones by the standards of supercars. The S is a luxury sedan, no different than the BMW's and Mercedes that I see daily on the road. The Tesla 3 is a high end small car, and would sell well without the subsidy.

    Elon Musk Begs The Feds: Please End Tesla's Tax Subsidy - Tesla Motors (NASDAQ:TSLA) | Seeking Alpha

    Summary
    On the 1Q earnings call, Elon Musk delivered an impassioned plea that the federal electric car subsidies hurt Tesla relative to other automakers.

    Pro tip to U.S. Congress and President Trump: Here’s a subsidy that the alleged beneficiary is effectively begging you to abolish.

    As it stands, after the first 200,000 cars, there is an unlimited number of subsidies available, constituting an unlimited multi-billion-dollar exposure to the federal budget.

    For the sake of all that is fair and budget sound, this electric car subsidy must be abolished immediately, saving the federal treasury billions.

    All electric car subsidies and mandates also induce malinvestment by other automakers, generating losses and eventually plant closures.

    "It's a little confusing, because one's a letter and the other's a number." - Elon Musk on 1Q earnings call talking about Model S vs. Model 3

    Tesla (NASDAQ:TSLA) reported 1Q earnings, and Elon Musk had but one request from the U.S. government: End the tax credit subsidies for electric cars.
     
  10. Viacheslav
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    Viacheslav VIP Member

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    I hope so, and I hope that the price for Tesla 3 will decrease. But if we reason logically Tesla 3 for $ 35,000 - $ 45 000 (top spec) this is not a good deal, of course, it depends on the country, but, for example, Toyota Camry starts from $ 23 000 to $ 36 000(top spec) I see several disadvantages in terms of buying Tesla 3:

    1. The initial price difference of 10,000 $ reduces to zero all the advantages of an electric vehicle.
    2. At the moment it is obvious that the Camry liquidity in the secondary market is much better than Tesla 3, and I'm not sure that the five-year-old Tesla 3 will be as good as the five-year-old Camry.

    But, of course, everything will change if the prices for Tesla 3 and in general electric cars fall.
     

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