Frozen electric cars, -25 C

[Old Rocks]

Doggone EV's won't run in the cold, right?

 

[BULLDOG]

If it gets that cold on the Texas coast, I'm not going anywhere anyway.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

If it gets that cold on the Texas coast, I'm not going anywhere anyway.

I'm sure it's just a matter of time with all of this global warming that's making America colder........

 

[Sunni Man]

Doggone EV's won't run in the cold, right?

No one said they wouldn't run in cold weather. But their driving range per charge will be greatly reduced. ....

 

[Viacheslav]

Doggone EV's won't run in the cold, right?

It's not a problem to run EV, but the question is how much the distance can be reduced which can be traveled by the battery without recharging.

 

[westwall]

Doggone EV's won't run in the cold, right?

Ummm, no. Just a large range reduction. But then you would have to refrain from lying. You're not good at that.


"It was a chilly 45° F when I pointed our fully charged Model S homeward for my informal experiment, a distance of 75 miles. With 240 miles on the car's range indicator, I figured there would be more than ample juice to cover the distance, plus some nighttime errands, the morning drop-off at school, and then my 75-mile return trip to the track. The Model S has an additional range predictor called "projected range" that estimated 188 miles remain. This secondary display is part of the energy graph, a function you can choose to view on the large iPad-like screen. The projected range takes into account ambient temperature and driving style, and it provides a more accurate estimate than the default display. Based on that estimate, too, the range appeared to be sufficient.

Although the car predicted its range fairly accurately, I barely made it back to the office the next day, running the last three miles on an indicated zero charge. Yes, I was a bit stressed, but the car did what it said it would. The entire trip totaled 176 miles. So, how did I run the battery all the way to empty?"

Winter chills limit range of the Tesla Model S electric car

 

[Old Rocks]

Yes, the range does go down with temperature. Yet, now we have a semi with 500 miles range with a full load, and a roadster with 620 mile range. How long before the other models feature similar ranges? And how long after that before we get another jump in range? And at some point, the reduction in range from cold will no longer matter. Then there is the matter of being independent from the oil companies. You can make your own fuel. And provide energy for your home at the same time. In my lifetime, I expect to see most of the vehicles being made to be EV's.

 

[Sunni Man]

Yes, the range does go down with temperature. Yet, now we have a semi with 500 miles range with a full load, and a roadster with 620 mile range. How long before the other models feature similar ranges? And how long after that before we get another jump in range? And at some point, the reduction in range from cold will no longer matter. Then there is the matter of being independent from the oil companies. You can make your own fuel. And provide energy for your home at the same time. In my lifetime, I expect to see most of the vehicles being made to be EV's.

Battery power to run cars is over 200 year old technology. We need to advance, not go backwards. .....

Electric Cars Have Been Around for Over 200 Years - Green Living 4 Live

 

[westwall]

Yes, the range does go down with temperature. Yet, now we have a semi with 500 miles range with a full load, and a roadster with 620 mile range. How long before the other models feature similar ranges? And how long after that before we get another jump in range? And at some point, the reduction in range from cold will no longer matter. Then there is the matter of being independent from the oil companies. You can make your own fuel. And provide energy for your home at the same time. In my lifetime, I expect to see most of the vehicles being made to be EV's.

Wow, a SEMI TRACTOR TRAILER with a range of 500 miles. Couldn't possibly be because of all that EXTRA SPACE for the batteries needed to give that range now could it. It's not that the battery range has gotten better dummy, they just get to pack more in!

You expect to see a lot, the problem is what you expect to see isn't all that great.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

Doggone EV's won't run in the cold, right?

It's not a problem to run EV, but the question is how much the distance can be reduced which can be traveled by the battery without recharging.

And forget about running the heater.

 

[Sunni Man]

And forget about running the heater.

You can run the heater, but it's electric and runs off the batteries. Which further reduces the driving range of the car. ...

 

[Viacheslav]

Then there is the matter of being independent from the oil companies.

From my point of view, you exaggerate and slightly distort the facts. "Dependence" on oil companies will change to "dependence" on "lithium" companies, and we will always be "dependent" on some companies.

You can make your own fuel. And provide energy for your home at the same time.

But for this you have to pay more than if you were "dependent" on the oil companies.

In my lifetime, I expect to see most of the vehicles being made to be EV's.

Perhaps if the technical revolution in the field of energy and batteries happens in our lifetime

 

[Old Rocks]

Then there is the matter of being independent from the oil companies.

From my point of view, you exaggerate and slightly distort the facts. "Dependence" on oil companies will change to "dependence" on "lithium" companies, and we will always be "dependent" on some companies.

You can make your own fuel. And provide energy for your home at the same time.

But for this you have to pay more than if you were "dependent" on the oil companies.

In my lifetime, I expect to see most of the vehicles being made to be EV's.

Perhaps if the technical revolution in the field of energy and batteries happens in our lifetime

Some strides being made as we post on sodium batteries. As far as being dependent on 'some companies', these are occasional purchases, versus the every week purchase of fuel. And, depending where you are at, if you do much of the work yourself, solar can pay off in as little as thee years.

I find it amusing that you would say a technical revolution in energy and batteries in our lifetime. I was born in 1943, I have seen a technical revolution in those fields in my lifetime. And expect to live to see another, at the pace they are innovating in this field at present.

 

[Viacheslav]

I
Some strides being made as we post on sodium batteries.

I read about sodium batteries in 2013 http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ja406016j

As far as being dependent on 'some companies', these are occasional purchases, versus the every week purchase of fuel.

But still you have to buy batteries from "some companies", and then you have to pay for processing the old battery, and I'm sure that "some companies" will use the environmental lobby to pass laws on mandatory "environmental" taxes from electric vehicle owners.

I
I find it amusing that you would say a technical revolution in energy and batteries in our lifetime. I was born in 1943, I have seen a technical revolution in those fields in my lifetime. And expect to live to see another, at the pace they are innovating in this field at present.

But for "most of the vehicles being made to be EV's". "We" need to find the energy for charging, just imagine in your region a million EV, which means that the power system must be ready for the fact that all electric vehicles will be charged at one time and if the average charging power is 30kW / h (2-3 hours for charging), it will be necessary to have a capacity of 30 GW / h and for it should be revolution in the field of energy or we will "burn" much more fossil fuels to generate energy. And current batteries are still insufficient to drive out cars with an internal combustion engine and moreover, if all the subsidies and benefits for electric vehicles will be removed , then this industry may even collapse.

 

[Old Rocks]

That the EV industry depends on subsidies is something I find laughable. A top end Tesla S, a P100D will run you up to $160,000. They are not buying that car because they get a $7,500 subsidy. They are buying it because it is one of the fastest cars in the world, And it is made right here in America. And it is the cutting edge technology. They will not buy a Tesla Roadster 2.0 because of a $7,500 subsidy, they will buy it because it is the fastest production car in the world, and costs 1/2 to 1/10 of the cost of it's closest ICE competition.

 

[HenryBHough]

Friends who lived in Fairbanks (Alaska, liberals) bought an early Pious or whatever they're called. It ran at -40 degrees far enough to get the kids to school. Back, too.....but ONLY if Mom did NOT run the electric heater. OK, so only 12 miles....but with the heater on it quit moving at 10 miles...two miles short of getting her home on the backhaul. She adapted. Then the family moved to Iowa where it's a little warmer. Dunno how far it would have run had she never used the heater - none of the places she routinely went were more than about 20 miles from home and she didn't go to any of them once the temp went below -5. Just out of a sense of caution and self-preservation.

 

[Viacheslav]

That the EV industry depends on subsidies is something I find laughable. A top end Tesla S, a P100D will run you up to $160,000. They are not buying that car because they get a $7,500 subsidy. They are buying it because it is one of the fastest cars in the world, And it is made right here in America. And it is the cutting edge technology. They will not buy a Tesla Roadster 2.0 because of a $7,500 subsidy, they will buy it because it is the fastest production car in the world, and costs 1/2 to 1/10 of the cost of it's closest ICE competition.

Tesla S and Tesla Roadster are not interesting, because they are expensive "toys" for a very narrow market. But look at Tesla3 and subsidies of $ 7,500 look very attractive, and for example in Norvia spent $ 5 billion of subsidies to support EV

 

[Old Rocks]

Friends who lived in Fairbanks (Alaska, liberals) bought an early Pious or whatever they're called. It ran at -40 degrees far enough to get the kids to school. Back, too.....but ONLY if Mom did NOT run the electric heater. OK, so only 12 miles....but with the heater on it quit moving at 10 miles...two miles short of getting her home on the backhaul. She adapted. Then the family moved to Iowa where it's a little warmer. Dunno how far it would have run had she never used the heater - none of the places she routinely went were more than about 20 miles from home and she didn't go to any of them once the temp went below -5. Just out of a sense of caution and self-preservation.

LOL The Prius is a hybrid, has a gas engine. And many cars have a problem starting in very cold weather. Simple solution, put a small heater or lamp in the engine compartment when it is that cold.

Now as for it stopping moving after 10 miles, that has nothing to do with the cold, as by then, the gas engine should have been running a while. That, or this whole story is a fabrication.

 

[Old Rocks]

That the EV industry depends on subsidies is something I find laughable. A top end Tesla S, a P100D will run you up to $160,000. They are not buying that car because they get a $7,500 subsidy. They are buying it because it is one of the fastest cars in the world, And it is made right here in America. And it is the cutting edge technology. They will not buy a Tesla Roadster 2.0 because of a $7,500 subsidy, they will buy it because it is the fastest production car in the world, and costs 1/2 to 1/10 of the cost of it's closest ICE competition.

Tesla S and Tesla Roadster are not interesting, because they are expensive "toys" for a very narrow market. But look at Tesla3 and subsidies of $ 7,500 look very attractive, and for example in Norvia spent $ 5 billion of subsidies to support EV

The Roadster is a toy, albeit an inexpensive ones by the standards of supercars. The S is a luxury sedan, no different than the BMW's and Mercedes that I see daily on the road. The Tesla 3 is a high end small car, and would sell well without the subsidy.

Elon Musk Begs The Feds: Please End Tesla's Tax Subsidy - Tesla Motors (NASDAQ:TSLA) | Seeking Alpha

Summary
On the 1Q earnings call, Elon Musk delivered an impassioned plea that the federal electric car subsidies hurt Tesla relative to other automakers.

Pro tip to U.S. Congress and President Trump: Here’s a subsidy that the alleged beneficiary is effectively begging you to abolish.

As it stands, after the first 200,000 cars, there is an unlimited number of subsidies available, constituting an unlimited multi-billion-dollar exposure to the federal budget.

For the sake of all that is fair and budget sound, this electric car subsidy must be abolished immediately, saving the federal treasury billions.

All electric car subsidies and mandates also induce malinvestment by other automakers, generating losses and eventually plant closures.

"It's a little confusing, because one's a letter and the other's a number." - Elon Musk on 1Q earnings call talking about Model S vs. Model 3

Tesla (NASDAQ:TSLA) reported 1Q earnings, and Elon Musk had but one request from the U.S. government: End the tax credit subsidies for electric cars.

 

[Viacheslav]

[The Tesla 3 is a high end small car, and would sell well without the subsidy..

I hope so, and I hope that the price for Tesla 3 will decrease. But if we reason logically Tesla 3 for $ 35,000 - $ 45 000 (top spec) this is not a good deal, of course, it depends on the country, but, for example, Toyota Camry starts from $ 23 000 to $ 36 000(top spec) I see several disadvantages in terms of buying Tesla 3:

1. The initial price difference of 10,000 $ reduces to zero all the advantages of an electric vehicle.
2. At the moment it is obvious that the Camry liquidity in the secondary market is much better than Tesla 3, and I'm not sure that the five-year-old Tesla 3 will be as good as the five-year-old Camry.

But, of course, everything will change if the prices for Tesla 3 and in general electric cars fall.