French call for stronger EU to keep America in check

[freeandfun1]

French call for stronger EU to keep America in check

Tony Blair's hopes of healing the rift between Europe and America after the re-election of President George W Bush were quickly dashed yesterday, as France led calls for a rival European superpower to confront Washington.

Reacting to Mr Bush's victory, Michel Barnier, the French foreign minister, said four more years of a unilateralist administration in Washington required Europe to develop its own diplomatic and defence machinery.

"Our world needs several powers. We are in the process of gathering the pieces and the will to become another power," he said.

This I found very interesting.....

"There are clear differences over Kyoto, the international criminal court, not to mention Iran and North Korea. There is a heightened perception that Europe is becoming a community of values rather than just a market, which is going to force Britain to decide which side of the Atlantic it is on,"

I have heard that MANY Brits feel they have more in common with the USA than mainland Europe.

Just like most of the libs here in the states, the French are turning up the rhetoric. Could we see the US and France coming to a confrontation?

 

[Kentucky]

this can get serious. Most troubling is the rise of the Euro, now testing $1.30, and the blatant effort by these guys to replace the dollar with the Euro as the world's de facto reserve currency. If successful, it would have immensely negative impacts on the US and its citizens. It would also likely lead to excessive political instability throughout the world. Major wars would be certain.

As it is, they are indeed driving toward a major confrontation with the US. If it comes about, the US could potentially be forced to choose between allowing its economy to be destroyed or to destroy the economies of France and Germany. The latter would require military force.

They have a 1912 mindset over there right now and they need to snap out of it.

 

[wolvie20m]

Come one Kentucky what are we gonna do with France after we roll through in 4 days? Also if this does leed to a confertation I believe we would win. Also with the help of the British we would stomp through europe. You know whats more disturbing is, cause they don't like our policies they don't like us. Also if they want a fight I can think of many Americans who will give em' one hell of one. They should look at our record so far, only one we retreated from(for political puposes), and another one techniclly never lost nor won still going on. All the others we won so I glady so don't do it europe we don't want to hurt you.

 

[freeandfun1]

Come one Kentucky what are we gonna do with France after we roll through in 4 days? Also if this does leed to a confertation I believe we would win. Also with the help of the British we would stomp through europe. You know whats more disturbing is, cause they don't like our policies they don't like us. Also if they want a fight I can think of many Americans who will give em' one hell of one. They should look at our record so far, only one we retreated from(for political puposes), and another one techniclly never lost nor won still going on. All the others we won so I glady so don't do it europe we don't want to hurt you.

Don't forget, France has nukes and unlike the US, they have tested theirs in recent years (South Pacific).

 

[Kentucky]

anymore than they wanted one in 1914. They are, though, engaging in an economic arms race that has the potential to rapidly spin out of control in unpredictable ways. The US could never let oil prices be set in euros and must do WHATEVER it takes to keep that from happening. I believe that Saddam's decision in Nov. '02 to begin pricing his oil in euros was one of the many reasons the US decided to take him down (Venezuela should take note here).

An excellent older post by onedomino (http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13493) explored the internal motivations for French anti-Americanism and I found it very enlightening. Anyone on this thread who has not read it would find it a worthwhile read.

Whatever combination of forces is driving the current French/German policies toward the US and the dollar, I don't believe that they're thinking this all the way through. They don't realize that a military confrontation with the US is almost inevitable if they don't back off. That was the main point I was trying to make.

 

[freeandfun1]

anymore than they wanted one in 1914. They are, though, engaging in an economic arms race that has the potential to rapidly spin out of control in unpredictable ways. The US could never let oil prices be set in euros and must do WHATEVER it takes to keep that from happening. I believe that Saddam's decision in Nov. '02 to begin pricing his oil in euros was one of the many reasons the US decided to take him down (Venezuela should take note here).

An excellent older post by onedomino (http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13493) explored the internal motivations for French anti-Americanism and I found it very enlightening. Anyone on this thread who has not read it would find it a worthwhile read.

Whatever combination of forces is driving the current French/German policies toward the US and the dollar, I don't believe that they're thinking this all the way through. They don't realize that a military confrontation with the US is almost inevitable if they don't back off. That was the main point I was trying to make.

I TOTALLY agree with you. I have pointed all this out before, but was told by many I was just being paranoid and falling for conspiracy theories.

 

[NATO AIR]

the french want one, they're having delusions of grandeur again.

 

[theim]

I think it may be time for someone to kick France's ass again to get 'em back in line.

 

[wolvie20m]

Don't forget, France has nukes and unlike the US, they have tested theirs in recent years (South Pacific).

I think we got a few of those too. It would be foolish to use a terrible weapon such as that. Yet they might just be that stupid, espeacially if they think they can take us.

 

[theim]

I think we got a few of those too. It would be foolish to use a terrible weapon such as that. Yet they might just be that stupid, espeacially if they think they can take us.

Good thing we are (were? I forget if we scrapped it or not) working on a missle defence sheild. Let France lob her nukes. We'll blast 'em out of the sky.

When the AP reporter scores the pullizer winning photo of the Eiffel Tower buckling and crashing just as the Nuclear Shockwave hits it, I'm gonna make a poster of that and mount it on my bedroom wall. Such a sweet thing to see right before I fall asleep.

 

[Said1]

I TOTALLY agree with you. I have pointed all this out before, but was told by many I was just being paranoid and falling for conspiracy theories.

North Korea has dumped the dollar, and I believe Iran has played with the idea of using it permanently in the past too. Sorta of a coinky dink wouldn't you say?

 

[Kentucky]

North Korea has dumped the dollar, and I believe Iran has played with the idea of using it permanently in the past too. Sorta of a coinky dink wouldn't you say?

Iran is the second largest oil exporter behind Saudi Arabia. It's largest customer is Europe, consuming about 1/3 of Iran's oil exports. About a year ago, Iran began pricing oil destined for Europe in euros, all other Iranian oil is still dollar denominated. This is a bone America would like to pick with Iran.

Russia has also stated that it could someday go to a petro-euro.

OPEC has, on several occasions, explored the idea of pricing oil using a currency "market basket" such as the dollar, euro, and yen all on equal footing. Whenever this has come up, it has quickly gone away again.

The best way to combat this is to have a strong dollar. Unfortunately, that's not the case right now. Certainly, relative currency strength is cyclical but the dollar is at historic lows against the euro right now and this is a bad time for that to be happening.

 

[nosarcasm]

this can get serious. Most troubling is the rise of the Euro, now testing $1.30, and the blatant effort by these guys to replace the dollar with the Euro as the world's de facto reserve currency. If successful, it would have immensely negative impacts on the US and its citizens. It would also likely lead to excessive political instability throughout the world. Major wars would be certain.

As it is, they are indeed driving toward a major confrontation with the US. If it comes about, the US could potentially be forced to choose between allowing its economy to be destroyed or to destroy the economies of France and Germany. The latter would require military force.

They have a 1912 mindset over there right now and they need to snap out of it.

Hmm you have no idea. The dollar is so weak because the US government wanted it that way. The Euros do not like it because in combination with
the US deficit they fear inflation might arise in the US and when the US economy turns south so does theirs.

And your dreams about military operations against Europe. Well you are truly delusional.

 

[wolvie20m]

And your dreams about military operations against Europe. Well you are truly delusional.

How would you know? No one could have predicted WWII, infact WWI was the war to end all wars. Look how far that got. Don't call someone delusional for stating something they see. There is a growing animosity in Frace towards Americans. Just looking at possibilties not saying it will happen.

 

[nosarcasm]

France is a military midget in comparison to the US. Both countries are democracies and own nuclear weapons and an advanced delivery systems.

The European as a whole (far from being one) has limited military assets in comparison to the US and a fanatic peace-nick population. The resistance against the war in Iraq stems alot from public opinion that tries to avoid
wars at all costs these days.

If the Europeans do not start a war then the US would have to. This seems
unlikely to me. Not only have US companies vital interest in Europe also
the difference in common values is not that huge.

Does any European country wants to fight a war for France or anyone else
I dont see that as a possibilty.

Do they want to be a more even partner in the relationship with the US. Sure
Will that create posturing over what is fair trade? No doubt. But with
so many multinationals that are invested on both sides of the Atlantic
I do not see a threat in that.

A lot of people predicted WW 2 before the treaty of Versailles was even signed. The outside enemy in form of the USSR helped create the NATO
and soon China will probably fill the position as the next challenger.

The main difference these days imo is that with the international press and
the ability of most Europeans to read and write in English the differences
between countries have become smaller. The interdependence that countries
have these days and the similar interest the EU and US have (pretty much to keep the status quo)


Not to mention people like me that would like to promote a closer cooperation
between the EU and the US. The enemies of today or the future are not France or Russia You might be pissed about the French grandeur and their try
to piss on the US leg but it is harmless. De Gaulle had an anti American stand in order to gain something for France. But their influence is declining and the posturing is basically harmless.

The future cultural threat is not socialism in Europe because imo the EU at the end is more about capitalism then a huge socialist state. The cultural divisions in the EU will not go away within the next 50 years.

But challengers like China are more likely to create problems for the US.
The Jiadist target Christianity as a whole in a clash of civilizations.

To keep the status quo of western dominance in global fiance and trade
I expect the EU and US to work together to secure there part of the pie.

I spoke out against the post because it implied the EU tries activly to
bring the US down. I doubt that would help their security interest nor
that they intend to do that.

The EU itself repeatedly stated that they want a stronger dollar. It hurts
their exports to the US when their products are now more expensive.

Again I assume both sides have an interest in a status quo in the financial
arena.

 

[wolvie20m]

Well done, I agree my part in this may have been because of the Anti-US going on over there. Also War is unlikely with the French or any of the European countries. Just sort of gloating on our military superiority. One more thing thank you, thank you for explaining and not name calling and such. I appreciate people explaining themselves like you did, and a well done explanation.

 

[padisha emperor]

cause they don't like our policies they don't like us.

Wolvie, you are speaking of the US who hate french, aren't you ?
Because US hates french policy, and then they hate us.

When the AP reporter scores the pullizer winning photo of the Eiffel Tower buckling and crashing just as the Nuclear Shockwave hits it, I'm gonna make a poster of that and mount it on my bedroom wall. Such a sweet thing to see right before I fall asleep.

theim, you' re so stupid...I hope that you will never lead something, even the smaller...with a such mind, it would be catastrophic.

You know, some French don't like US, but no one thought one second to do a poster of the World Trade Center in flames....it would be an evidence of stupidity and primar barbary.



And for the idea of a war between France and USA........a stupid thing again.
I think that USA have already REAL ennemies to create new ones. N-Korea and some arabian countries are enough, aren't they ?
And of course, french amry is less numerous than US one. really. But the quality is probably better, and if there is a fight between the same number of soldiers, the french will probably win. Some exercise were organized between french and americans. 16 french planes - Mirage 2000 i believe - against 16 US F-16 Falcon (simulation of course) : 1 french planes "destroyed", 16 US planes "destroyed"...
But it is not the topic.
Imagine a war between France and USA is stupid, really. A such war would be the sign of the decline of the western civilization - or the sign of the stupidity of the US leaders -

 

[wolvie20m]

Wolvie, you are speaking of the US who hate french, aren't you ?
Because US hates french policy, and then they hate us.

No I mean in general your people are starting a movement against us. Whats the French's record in modern war(not simulation)?

 

[Kentucky]

Hmm you have no idea. The dollar is so weak because the US government wanted it that way. The Euros do not like it because in combination with
the US deficit they fear inflation might arise in the US and when the US economy turns south so does theirs.

And your dreams about military operations against Europe. Well you are truly delusional.

As you can tell from my low post count, I am fairly new here, and, consequently, I may have missed important earlier discussions. With that caveat in mind, I am curious as to why you believe that the US government wants the dollar weak at this particular time.

As far as a military confrontation between the US and Europe, my comments were couched in historical time frames. No one would argue that this is imminent but, rather, an event that will develop over a decade or more. There is an undeniable increase in belicosity reminiscent of earlier periods in European history that did lead to disasterous confrontation.

It is also not credible to argue that the EU is not specifically structured as a counterbalance to US power and influence. Chirac, Schroeder and others have both openly stated as much. The counterbalance is clearly intended to be political now, economic in the very near future, and eventually military.

There is much for Europe to gain from effectively countering the US and there is much for the US to lose. The confluence of competing US-Europe national interests, in conjunction with the likelihood of miscalculation, has classically been a run up to confrontation in the past. There is no reason to believe that it could not happen again.

 

[nosarcasm]

As you can tell from my low post count, I am fairly new here, and, consequently, I may have missed important earlier discussions. With that caveat in mind, I am curious as to why you believe that the US government wants the dollar weak at this particular time.

Well I am sorry that I was a bit harsh in my reaction. I haven't posted here
that much either.


one analysis of the reasons for the decline of the Us dollar.
http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/briefingpapers_may03bp_lowerdollar