"Freedom is Participation in Power"

Again, it depends on your definitions of both "libertarian" and "corporatism". It doesn't sound like you see either as I do.

It's not about definitions. It's about what actually happens. Conservatism by definition opposes intrusive government. But what actually happens is that most conservatives embrace intrusive government.

The argument made by Nader in his book Unstoppable is that, as a treaty, the WTO should have been subject to a two-thirds vote as required by the Constitution instead of being fast tracked through congress as a "trade agreement." If Ralph is correct when he writes the WTO "was the largest single surrender of local, state, and national sovereignty in US history", this is one issue where libertarians and progressives might find common ground.

Except that, as I pointed out, Libertarians don't actually care. They're just as much in bed with the pandering as anyone else.

I'm sure you can find many examples of people who call themselves libertarians who fit this description. But the base ideology of libertarianism is diametrically opposed to corporatism, and the libertarians that I know and work with care a great deal.

I find it interesting that Nader seems to be referring to progressives as if they were an independent political party, when the vast majority of progressives are Democrats. It underscores the fact that Nader seems to foolishly think [hope] that there is an independent political will to fight against the inherent corruption in 21st century American politics.

If so, then hope itself is foolish.
 
"Most people would situate Nader on the left. That’s a reasonable judgment but also a simplistic one, because in many ways he is fairly conservative — conservative enough to harvest favorable book-jacket blurbs for 'Unstoppable' from the likes of anti-tax activist Grover Norquist and anti-immigration activist Ron Unz..."

"But the right’s affinity for Nader is not based solely on partisan interest. He holds more beliefs in common with conservatives than is generally recognized..."

"Any government intrusion into the economy,” he (Nader) wrote in 1962, 'deters the alleged beneficiaries from voicing their views or participating in civic life.' He probably wouldn’t put it so tea-party-ishly today. But he remains much less enamored than most liberals of representative government as a solution to life’s problems.

Book review Unstoppable by Ralph Nader on building a left-right alliance - The Washington Post
 
Nader burned his 15 minutes on the Corvair, the cute little deathtrap of 40 years ago
"Eighty years old and still full of piss and vinegar, Ralph Nader should perhaps add honey to his repertoire, as he attempts to woo libertarians, and maybe a Tea Partier or two, to his latest campaign.

"In his new book, Unstoppable: The Emerging Left-Right Alliance to Dismantle the Corporate State, Nader challenges these strange bedfellows to come together to shake up Washington’s dysfunctional, cronyist status quo."
Can Ralph Nader Get Progressives and Libertarians to Make Common Cause - Forbes
No one cares, literally.

You really are an ill tempered little c**t aren't you?
 
Ralph Nader is echoing Cicero's declaration that freedom is participation in power in his new book, Unstoppable: The Emerging Left/Right Alliance to Dismantle the Corporate State; Bill Freeza writing at Forbes interviews Ralph and Cato scholar Brink Lindsey trying to determine if progressives and libertarians can find enough common ground to challenge the corporate status quo.

"Nader describes our current political system as a duopoly that brooks no competition. 'I don’t think there is any other Western country that has so many obstacles to third party or independent candidate challenges,' he says. 'And given the way they gerrymander the districts, in 90 percent of the House of Representatives districts are essentially one party.'

"Libertarians certainly sympathize.

"But can Nader convince them to set aside their fundamental philosophical differences with progressives to tackle a specific and limited set of issues where there is agreement?

"In his book, Ralph lists 24 such areas, including civil liberties and subsidies to big business.

"Brink Lindsey is not so sure.

"But he notes that 'libertarians are a pretty small minority in American politics, so when anybody reaches out to us, I think we ought to be hospitable.'”

Can Ralph Nader Get Progressives and Libertarians to Make Common Cause - Forbes

Could be influenced by Foucault.
 
Could be influenced by Foucault.
In what sense?
"Foucault is sometimes criticized for his prominent formulation of principles of social constructionism, which some see as an affront to the concept of truth.

"In Foucault's 1971 televised debate with Noam Chomsky, Foucault argued against the possibility of any fixed human nature, as posited by Chomsky's concept of innate human faculties.

"Chomsky argued that concepts of justice were rooted in human reason, whereas Foucault rejected the universal basis for a concept of justice.[172]

"Following the debate, Chomsky was stricken with Foucault's total rejection of the possibility of a universal morality, stating 'He struck me as completely amoral, I’d never met anyone who was so totally amoral' ... 'I mean, I liked him personally, it's just that I couldn't make sense of him. It's as if he was from a different species, or something.'"
Michel Foucault - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
 
I'm sure you can find many examples of people who call themselves libertarians who fit this description. But the base ideology of libertarianism is diametrically opposed to corporatism, and the libertarians that I know and work with care a great deal.

No true Scotsman fallacy.
 
Could be influenced by Foucault.
In what sense?
"Foucault is sometimes criticized for his prominent formulation of principles of social constructionism, which some see as an affront to the concept of truth.

"In Foucault's 1971 televised debate with Noam Chomsky, Foucault argued against the possibility of any fixed human nature, as posited by Chomsky's concept of innate human faculties.

"Chomsky argued that concepts of justice were rooted in human reason, whereas Foucault rejected the universal basis for a concept of justice.[172]

"Following the debate, Chomsky was stricken with Foucault's total rejection of the possibility of a universal morality, stating 'He struck me as completely amoral, I’d never met anyone who was so totally amoral' ... 'I mean, I liked him personally, it's just that I couldn't make sense of him. It's as if he was from a different species, or something.'"
Michel Foucault - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
The Subject and Power
I'd like to mention only two "pathological forms" —those two "diseases of power"— fascism and Stalinism. One of the numerous reasons why they are, for us, so puzzling is that in spite of their historical uniqueness they are not quite original. They used and extended mechanisms already present in most other societies. More than that: in spite of their own internal madness, they used to a large extent the ideas and the devices of our political rationality.

I would like to suggest another way to go further toward a new economy of power relations, a way which is more empirical, more directly related to our present situation, and which implies more relations between theory and practice. It consists of taking the forms of resistance against different forms of power as a starting point. To use another metaphor, it consists of using this resistance as a chemical catalyst so as to bring to light power relations, locate their position, and find out their point of application and the methods used. Rather than analyzing power from the point of view of its internal rationality, it consists of analyzing power relations through the antagonism of strategies


The Subject and Power Michel Foucault Info

Well, if you are trying to break the ideology of two party political system, Foucault's philosophy would break down the idea of power and how the two party system is about power and political segregation......along those lines it makes sense to uniting libertarians and progressives to break that power hold would follow along with Foucault.

Anyway, if you read my initial post, I was speculating that he might be influenced by him, I didn't say that he was. I was mostly just remembering a book of his I read and it seemed plausible,
 
I'm sure you can find many examples of people who call themselves libertarians who fit this description. But the base ideology of libertarianism is diametrically opposed to corporatism, and the libertarians that I know and work with care a great deal.

No true Scotsman fallacy.
I'm sure you can find many examples of people who call themselves libertarians who fit this description. But the base ideology of libertarianism is diametrically opposed to corporatism, and the libertarians that I know and work with care a great deal.

No true Scotsman fallacy.

Not at all. I'm just calling bullshit on your assertion that libertarians are "just as much in bed with the pandering as anyone else". It's completely unfounded, if for no other reason than hardly any libertarians are in a position to do that kind of pandering. And the fact remains that the ideology itself is fundamentally opposed to that kind of government. You're just making empty smears. And you're definitely no Scotsman. ;)
 
Well, if you are trying to break the ideology of two party political system, Foucault's philosophy would break down the idea of power and how the two party system is about power and political segregation......along those lines it makes sense to uniting libertarians and progressives to break that power hold would follow along with Foucault.
That makes sense to me. The concept of political segregation also resonates since party loyalists of both major parties often turn a blind eyes to the transgressions of their party that they rightly condemn when the other party is in power. Elites in both parties rightly fear any definition of freedom that includes a participation in power plank in its platform.
 

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