"Freedom is Participation in Power"

[georgephillip]

Ralph Nader is echoing Cicero's declaration that freedom is participation in power in his new book, Unstoppable: The Emerging Left/Right Alliance to Dismantle the Corporate State; Bill Freeza writing at Forbes interviews Ralph and Cato scholar Brink Lindsey trying to determine if progressives and libertarians can find enough common ground to challenge the corporate status quo.

"Nader describes our current political system as a duopoly that brooks no competition. 'I don’t think there is any other Western country that has so many obstacles to third party or independent candidate challenges,' he says. 'And given the way they gerrymander the districts, in 90 percent of the House of Representatives districts are essentially one party.'

"Libertarians certainly sympathize.

"But can Nader convince them to set aside their fundamental philosophical differences with progressives to tackle a specific and limited set of issues where there is agreement?

"In his book, Ralph lists 24 such areas, including civil liberties and subsidies to big business.

"Brink Lindsey is not so sure.

"But he notes that 'libertarians are a pretty small minority in American politics, so when anybody reaches out to us, I think we ought to be hospitable.'”

Can Ralph Nader Get Progressives and Libertarians to Make Common Cause - Forbes

 

[rightwinger]

Freedoms just another name for noth'n else to lose

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Libertarians are little more than selfish infants, and you can't cut a deal with an infant.

 

[Little-Acorn]

"Freedom is Participation in Power"


Nonsense.

Freedom is immunity from the effects of "power" wielded by others. Coupled with an acceptance of the responsibility that you cannot wield power over others if they haven't asked for it.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

"Freedom is Participation in Power"


Nonsense.

Freedom is immunity from the effects of "power" wielded by others. Coupled with an acceptance of the responsibility that you cannot wield power over others if they haven't asked for it.

This is why Libertarians are terrible parents. They simply don't get how power works, and why they have none.

 

[georgephillip]

Libertarians are little more than selfish infants, and you can't cut a deal with an infant.

At best, Libertarians seem oblivious to the way$ of power:
"Nader is most hostile to large businesses that use their profits to purchase access to political power. But rather than seeking to curb this practice by reducing the size and power of government, thereby removing the incentive to ply politicians with campaign cash, he wants government to limit the size and power of corporations. Haven’t we seen this movie before?"
It seems to me "removing the incentive to ply politicians with campaign cash" would simply replace "government" with direct corporate rule, in effect, cutting out the middleman.

Can Ralph Nader Get Progressives and Libertarians to Make Common Cause - Forbes

 

[occupied]

Libertarians are little more than selfish infants, and you can't cut a deal with an infant.

This correct. To a libertarian, progressives are the enemy that must be crushed. In recent years these so-called libertarians have adopted so many pro-big business issues of their own that it is clear that they have sold their soul to big donors in return for some national exposure. Nothing but republican voters who have no wish to defend their sorry asses.

 

[georgephillip]

Freedoms just another name for noth'n else to lose

Among other things...
"Banks and telecommunications companies should be run as public utilities.

"The government should break up Google and maybe even Amazon (though Amazon could be given a little more time to see if Walmart steps up to challenge it).

"Federal law should limit not only the size of corporations, but also limited liability protections for investors, under the justification that greater exposure to liability might prompt investors to exercise tighter control over misbehaving and overpaid corporate executives.

"Nader also praises 1930s intellectuals who promoted not just income redistribution but asset redistribution, and quotes the Roman statesman Marcus Cicero, who said .'Freedom is participation in power.'”

Can Ralph Nader Get Progressives and Libertarians to Make Common Cause - Forbes

 

[dblack]

Libertarians are little more than selfish infants, and you can't cut a deal with an infant.

This correct. To a libertarian, progressives are the enemy that must be crushed. In recent years these so-called libertarians have adopted so many pro-big business issues of their own that it is clear that they have sold their soul to big donors in return for some national exposure. Nothing but republican voters who have no wish to defend their sorry asses.

I think Nader's campaign is a nice litmus test to distinguish a true libertarian from a tea party republican - and likewise, a true progressive from a corporatist liberal.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Libertarians are little more than selfish infants, and you can't cut a deal with an infant.

This correct. To a libertarian, progressives are the enemy that must be crushed. In recent years these so-called libertarians have adopted so many pro-big business issues of their own that it is clear that they have sold their soul to big donors in return for some national exposure. Nothing but republican voters who have no wish to defend their sorry asses.

I think Nader's campaign is a nice litmus test to distinguish a true libertarian from a tea party republican - and likewise, a true progressive from a corporatist liberal.

Nader burned his 15 minutes on the Corvair, the cute little deathtrap of 40 years ago.

 

[georgephillip]

"Freedom is Participation in Power"


Nonsense.

Freedom is immunity from the effects of "power" wielded by others. Coupled with an acceptance of the responsibility that you cannot wield power over others if they haven't asked for it.

"We the People" were tasked with wielding power in this republic, and we've largely been replaced by corporate shareholders operating through corrupt yet duly elected politicians. Freedom requires taking back control of government before worrying about whether to increase or decrease its power.

 

[rightwinger]

Freedoms just another name for noth'n else to lose

Among other things...
"Banks and telecommunications companies should be run as public utilities.

"The government should break up Google and maybe even Amazon (though Amazon could be given a little more time to see if Walmart steps up to challenge it).

"Federal law should limit not only the size of corporations, but also limited liability protections for investors, under the justification that greater exposure to liability might prompt investors to exercise tighter control over misbehaving and overpaid corporate executives.

"Nader also praises 1930s intellectuals who promoted not just income redistribution but asset redistribution, and quotes the Roman statesman Marcus Cicero, who said .'Freedom is participation in power.'”

Can Ralph Nader Get Progressives and Libertarians to Make Common Cause - Forbes

Nothing don't mean noth'n if it ain't free

 

[PaintMyHouse]

"Freedom is Participation in Power"


Nonsense.

Freedom is immunity from the effects of "power" wielded by others. Coupled with an acceptance of the responsibility that you cannot wield power over others if they haven't asked for it.

"We the People" were tasked with wielding power in this republic...

No, you weren't. The Founders wanted you to do your jobs and shut the fuck up. It's why most Americans couldn't vote, and many were nothing more than property.

 

[georgephillip]

Nader burned his 15 minutes on the Corvair, the cute little deathtrap of 40 years ago

"Eighty years old and still full of piss and vinegar, Ralph Nader should perhaps add honey to his repertoire, as he attempts to woo libertarians, and maybe a Tea Partier or two, to his latest campaign.

"In his new book, Unstoppable: The Emerging Left-Right Alliance to Dismantle the Corporate State, Nader challenges these strange bedfellows to come together to shake up Washington’s dysfunctional, cronyist status quo."
Can Ralph Nader Get Progressives and Libertarians to Make Common Cause - Forbes

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Nader burned his 15 minutes on the Corvair, the cute little deathtrap of 40 years ago

"Eighty years old and still full of piss and vinegar, Ralph Nader should perhaps add honey to his repertoire, as he attempts to woo libertarians, and maybe a Tea Partier or two, to his latest campaign.

"In his new book, Unstoppable: The Emerging Left-Right Alliance to Dismantle the Corporate State, Nader challenges these strange bedfellows to come together to shake up Washington’s dysfunctional, cronyist status quo."
Can Ralph Nader Get Progressives and Libertarians to Make Common Cause - Forbes

No one cares, literally.

 

[georgephillip]

Nothing don't mean noth'n if it ain't free

 

[dblack]

Libertarians are little more than selfish infants, and you can't cut a deal with an infant.

This correct. To a libertarian, progressives are the enemy that must be crushed. In recent years these so-called libertarians have adopted so many pro-big business issues of their own that it is clear that they have sold their soul to big donors in return for some national exposure. Nothing but republican voters who have no wish to defend their sorry asses.

I think Nader's campaign is a nice litmus test to distinguish a true libertarian from a tea party republican - and likewise, a true progressive from a corporatist liberal.

Nader burned his 15 minutes on the Corvair, the cute little deathtrap of 40 years ago.

I'll refer to my previous post in this thread.

 

[SwimExpert]

Freedom is immunity from the effects of "power" wielded by others.

That's the kind of nonsensical thinking that leftists usually peddle. Everyone should be as weak as the weakest people in society, exercising one's power is an affront against society.

Nader is correct. Freedom is participation in power (including all the responsibilities of its exercise), not immunity from it. You are free to exercise your own power in your own life. Other people will do the same. There will always be effects that influence your life. That's life, deal with it. There will always be another man more attractive who appeals to the girl you want. There will be someone else smarter than you who gains your bosses attention. There will be someone else willing to pay alot of money for the house you want. If you think that you're not free until the rest of the world is impotent then that's a reflection of your own patheticness, and nothing more.

 

[georgephillip]

, you weren't. The Founders wanted you to do your jobs and shut the fuck up. It's why most Americans couldn't vote, and many were nothing more than property.

What did the Founders say about corporations?

 

[rightwinger]

Nothing don't mean noth'n if it ain't free

Could be.......but it's good enough for me and my Bobby McGee