Free Will?

[dmp]

That scripture applies to the redeemed after he told the lady "Go and sin no more"... doesn't apply to "all of mankind"...



It has bearing on our salvation in the sense that we're all born into sin - have the blinders on to our own sin - and cannot ever see our own sins unless the Spirit convicts us of our sin.

Again...Jesus was FULLY man. Do you think he had a choice? Free will? I know what Jesus Will was - "Father, if it be YOUR will, remove this cup from my lips" Jesus was telling The Father "I do NOT want to do this - PLEASE remove the task" But then Jesus said "But nevertheless, LET your will not mine, be done."

Jesus MUST have had 'free will' in order to give said will UP.

 

[-Cp]

Again...Jesus was FULLY man. Do you think he had a choice? Free will? I know what Jesus Will was - "Father, if it be YOUR will, remove this cup from my lips" Jesus was telling The Father "I do NOT want to do this - PLEASE remove the task" But then Jesus said "But nevertheless, LET your will not mine, be done."

Jesus MUST have had 'free will' in order to give said will UP.

I never doubted that man has "Free Will" to make daily choices....

Let me put it this way. You have the free will to buy a Ford or a Chevy, to eat meat or veggies, but concerning your salvation, Christ paid the ultimate price to take that decision out of the hand of man.

 

[dmp]

I never doubted that man has "Free Will" to make daily choices....

...And those choices COULD be sin. What if God TOLD you to buy a Chevy, and you bought a Ford? (shrug)

Jesus had EVERY opportunity to take Satan up on his Tempting...Jesus armed himself with the scriptures to refute the devil.

IF we had NO free will to sin or NOT sin, Why would God allow the devil to test Job? What would be the point? Because the Devil REALLY THOUGHT he could get Job to sin...that's why.

 

[-Cp]

...And those choices COULD be sin. What if God TOLD you to buy a Chevy, and you bought a Ford? (shrug)

Jesus had EVERY opportunity to take Satan up on his Tempting...Jesus armed himself with the scriptures to refute the devil.

IF we had NO free will to sin or NOT sin, Why would God allow the devil to test Job? What would be the point? Because the Devil REALLY THOUGHT he could get Job to sin...that's why.

The devil has been wrong about a lot of things, hasn't he? Not the least of which was his feeble attempts to make Christ sin...

This topic was never intended to question the practices of the redeemed - the thing I've called into question is whether or not "the lost" can ever have "free will" to find God on their own.. or somehow "choose God" on their own...

 

[5stringJeff]

That scripture applies to the redeemed after he told the lady "Go and sin no more"... doesn't apply to "all of mankind"...

Incorrect. She was not redeemed. No one has been redeemed at the time. And if it had only applied to the redeemed, wouldn't Jesus have said something like "Since I'm gonna die for your sins, quit sinning, but the rest of the people whose sins I'm not dying for, well, screw them!"

It has bearing on our salvation in the sense that we're all born into sin - have the blinders on to our own sin - and cannot ever see our own sins unless the Spirit convicts us of our sin.

Romans 5:18: "So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.

 

[5stringJeff]

This topic was never intended to question the practices of the redeemed - the thing I've called into question is whether or not "the lost" can ever have "free will" to find God on their own.. or somehow "choose God" on their own...

Duane, I italicized the words "on their own" because I think that's the hangup. I don't think any of us will argue that man can earn his own salvation. Because mankind is dependent upon God to grant salvation, then God must choose to grant it, or nobody would be saved. But what I'm saying (and Darin too) is that while God chooses to offer salvation, man must accept salvation through faith. I will also argue, based on the several scriptures I've posted in this thread, that God offers salvation to all people on an equal basis.

 

[shepherdboy]

When Jesus Christ said "It is finished." All that had to be done was done. Complete and fulfilled. Anything added to that by Man is a works gospel. Its not God with the help of Man. Its God alone. God is Sovereign.

Sovereign-one that exercises supreme authority:Unlimited in extent:Absolute control.

Just my 2 cents

 

[Annie]

Duane, I italicized the words "on their own" because I think that's the hangup. I don't think any of us will argue that man can earn his own salvation. Because mankind is dependent upon God to grant salvation, then God must choose to grant it, or nobody would be saved. But what I'm saying (and Darin too) is that while God chooses to offer salvation, man must accept salvation through faith. I will also argue, based on the several scriptures I've posted in this thread, that God offers salvation to all people on an equal basis.

Jeff, no disrespect meant, I'm trying to understand. This sounds to me like 'predestination' with caveats. Is that what you meant?

 

[-Cp]

Duane, I italicized the words "on their own" because I think that's the hangup. I don't think any of us will argue that man can earn his own salvation. Because mankind is dependent upon God to grant salvation, then God must choose to grant it, or nobody would be saved. But what I'm saying (and Darin too) is that while God chooses to offer salvation, man must accept salvation through faith. I will also argue, based on the several scriptures I've posted in this thread, that God offers salvation to all people on an equal basis.

Did God grant Salvation to Esau on an equal basis?

11Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God's purpose in election might stand: 12not by works but by him who calls—she was told, "The older will serve the younger."[d] 13Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."[e]

 

[shepherdboy]

Duane, I italicized the words "on their own" because I think that's the hangup. I don't think any of us will argue that man can earn his own salvation. Because mankind is dependent upon God to grant salvation, then God must choose to grant it, or nobody would be saved. But what I'm saying (and Darin too) is that while God chooses to offer salvation, man must accept salvation through faith. I will also argue, based on the several scriptures I've posted in this thread, that God offers salvation to all people on an equal basis.

Man accept salvation through faith? Yes, but man must first be given the spiritulal eyes and ears from God to respond that hearing of the Word. (Romans 9:16) "It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy." Yes God does offer salvation to all of mankind. But unless God intervnes with His saving Grace, that man,women, or child will not seek God.(Romans 3:10-12) "There is no one righteous, not even one, there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless, there is no one who does good, not even one. God is Soverign!(Isaiah 46:10) I make known the end from the begining, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please. Like I said before in the above script. If people believe that its God, plus man's works to be saved, then what Christ did at the cross is a lie. Jesus did it all because man had tried and failed. God gave man a chance and he blew it in the garden. So is all of mankind saved from their sins with Jesus Christ dying for all of mankind? Look at Matthew (13:44-45) The field is the unsaved world. The treasure and the pearls are the elect one's of God.

"Its very late. I am I making sense to anyone?"

 

[Emmett]

In Matthew Jesus' words explain it very clearly!

 

[5stringJeff]

Jeff, no disrespect meant, I'm trying to understand. This sounds to me like 'predestination' with caveats. Is that what you meant?

No. I am not a Calvinist. What I'm arguing (or was, 6 months ago before this thread was resurrected) is that each individual chooses whether or not to accept the gift of salvation, which God offers to all.

 

[5stringJeff]

Did God grant Salvation to Esau on an equal basis?

11Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God's purpose in election might stand: 12not by works but by him who calls—she was told, "The older will serve the younger."[d] 13Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."[e]

This passage doesn't say anything about salvation. Paul is talking about the line through which Christ would be born.

 

[5stringJeff]

Man accept salvation through faith? Yes, but man must first be given the spiritulal eyes and ears from God to respond that hearing of the Word. (Romans 9:16) "It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy." Yes God does offer salvation to all of mankind. But unless God intervnes with His saving Grace, that man,women, or child will not seek God.(Romans 3:10-12) "There is no one righteous, not even one, there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless, there is no one who does good, not even one. God is Soverign!(Isaiah 46:10) I make known the end from the begining, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please. Like I said before in the above script. If people believe that its God, plus man's works to be saved, then what Christ did at the cross is a lie. Jesus did it all because man had tried and failed. God gave man a chance and he blew it in the garden. So is all of mankind saved from their sins with Jesus Christ dying for all of mankind? Look at Matthew (13:44-45) The field is the unsaved world. The treasure and the pearls are the elect one's of God.

"Its very late. I am I making sense to anyone?"

I totally agree, God is sovereign, and man cannot earn his way into heaven. "The gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord." The point we had discussed earlier was regarding universal salvation vs. non-universal salvation. My point was that we are called to believe and be saved through our belief in Christ's redeeming work.