Free marketeer admits regulation is key

[antagon]

oops...

because____(fill in the blank)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I already know what the lunatic, fringe Free Market purists are going to say about Bernanke. He ain't free marketeer because____(fill in the blank).

The loony tunes Commie purists say the same thing about Mao, Stalin, Lenin...not really Communists because____(fill in the blank)

Bernake's a Keynesian idiot repeating the mistakes he studied so well. Got too close to his research material.

Secondly, The free market works best where there is SOME regulation to establish standards and foundations of trade and trust. Without trust there can be no trade. Without trade, there is no market and the fundamentals have always needed a certain level of regulation.

Where regulation has fallen apart is the passing of draconian interfering regulations in the function of the market, preventing it from operating smoothly. You want to protect from fraud, unsafe products and dishonesty. You need to prosecute criminals and stay out of the way of successful business.

You don't regulate prices, or how business writes contracts unless they are dishonest or fraudulant or put undue risk on the public. You don't command people buy a product or tell an industry who they can sell to and how. These things create shortages and lack in the system.

Now I know this is hard to believe, but you've just gone to prove the point once again, liberals just don't understand Free Market Capitalism.

...with trust established, something has to regulate multi-tiered markets. your typical laisez-faire theorist or fed abolitionist simply hasnt done their homework with regard to how un-regulated derivatives, for example, wont perverse the price structure of their components - real mortgages, real homes. same applies to controlling the money supply in the absence of the Fed. What market mechanism will put price, supply demand AND currency value all in tune. free-market magic to some, unexplained garbage to me.

 

[Oddball]

...with trust established, something has to regulate multi-tiered markets. your typical laisez-faire theorist or fed abolitionist simply hasnt done their homework with regard to how un-regulated derivatives, for example, wont perverse the price structure of their components - real mortgages, real homes. same applies to controlling the money supply in the absence of the Fed. What market mechanism will put price, supply demand AND currency value all in tune. free-market magic to some, unexplained garbage to me.

The derivatives market only crashed because of bad mortgage lending policies, which flooded the market with undercollateralized "A" paper given to high risk borrowers, not because of anything having to do with "under-regulation" of the market.

Speaking of people who haven't done their homework......

 

[antagon]

...with trust established, something has to regulate multi-tiered markets. your typical laisez-faire theorist or fed abolitionist simply hasnt done their homework with regard to how un-regulated derivatives, for example, wont perverse the price structure of their components - real mortgages, real homes. same applies to controlling the money supply in the absence of the Fed. What market mechanism will put price, supply demand AND currency value all in tune. free-market magic to some, unexplained garbage to me.

The derivatives market only crashed because of bad mortgage lending policies, which flooded the market with undercollateralized "A" paper given to high risk borrowers, not because of anything having to do with "under-regulation" of the market.

Speaking of people who haven't done their homework......

i say demand for derivatives inflated their values beyond their collateral worth. it precipitated lending policies that could constitute a supply response, whether the credits were wise investments or not.

thats more chronological homework for ya, buddy. your arguement is inside-out or assbackwards. mine follows a supply/demand pattern rather than assuming banks all collectively decided on being reckless for no reason at all.

my take lines up with stan o'neal's gameplan, and the northern rock crumble. if derivatives demand didnt precede the supply frenzy, the loan-a-rama wouldnt have even got off the ground in the first place.

brush up on ur shit.

 

[Oddball]

What you say and the reality of the situation are two different things.

Trading in mortgage paper has been going on long since before either of us were born.

Were the mortgages being traded properly collateralized and decently seasoned, the market probably would've held together despite the economic downturn, rather than collapsing when the inordinate amount excessively risky contracts went into default.

And I'm rather well brushed up on my shit, sport, thankyouverymuch.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Bernake's a Keynesian idiot repeating the mistakes he studied so well. Got too close to his research material.

Maybe so. I would need to see what you are talking about, but that ain't gonna happen here. I'll give you a maybe so...

Secondly, The free market works best where there is SOME regulation to establish standards and foundations of trade and trust. Without trust there can be no trade. Without trade, there is no market and the fundamentals have always needed a certain level of regulation.

so far so good.

clap, clap, clap...

Where regulation has fallen apart is the passing of draconian interfering regulations in the function of the market, preventing it from operating smoothly.

Examples please.

You want to protect from fraud, unsafe products and dishonesty. You need to prosecute criminals and stay out of the way of successful business.

Far too much wishful thinking.

The bs that an invisible hand will self correct because bad biz will be bad for biz....Greenspan spoke to that with his meaculpa

You don't regulate prices, or how business writes contracts unless they are dishonest or fraudulant or put undue risk on the public. You don't command people buy a product or tell an industry who they can sell to and how. These things create shortages and lack in the system.

everything is not a product to be treated this way. some things are neccessities and sometimes a well regulated monopoly is in the Best Interest of the General Public.

Profit is NOT a god

Now I know this is hard to believe, but you've just gone to prove the point once again, liberals just don't understand Free Market Capitalism.

Of course they do. They just haven't drunk the koolaid of wishful thinking, suspension of common sense, negation of critical thinking and greed for greed's sake.

but thank you for an honest and well put opinion.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

As id to prove it I expect the next post refuting what you say to be full of why regulation is a good thing.

Wrong again Bozo, because HE already stated why regulation is a good...and...NEEDED thing.

good gosh, are you this much of a simpleton in real life?

Transparency and rule of law are the only regulation needed.

Yeah, and the market is filled honest men doing god's work.

 

[Oddball]

Transparency and rule of law are the only regulation needed.

Yeah, and the market is filled honest men doing god's work.

Far more so than the regulatory bureaucracies being filled with honest men doing god's work.

 

[antagon]

What you say and the reality of the situation are two different things.

Trading in mortgage paper has been going on long since before either of us were born.

Were the mortgages being traded properly collateralized and decently seasoned, the market probably would've held together despite the economic downturn, rather than collapsing when the inordinate amount excessively risky contracts went into default.

And I'm rather well brushed up on my shit, sport, thankyouverymuch.

thats true about the mortgages, of course. i just speak to why: banks flocked to the derivatves market. twas around for god knows how long, but quadrupled or more in a couple year's time.

the fed is dodging the culpability of their rates policy, and free marketeers are, dunno, trying to stretch the CRA into a leading role.

i think that the issue is the seasoning of the derivatives. im not sure what you mean by that, but if you mean hedging consumer credit with mtgs, then i would say a more regged, rated market like bonds are played on would help substantially.

ratings would help marry risk with value, instead of the double or triple tiered disaster that it is.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

...with trust established, something has to regulate multi-tiered markets. your typical laisez-faire theorist or fed abolitionist simply hasnt done their homework with regard to how un-regulated derivatives, for example, wont perverse the price structure of their components - real mortgages, real homes. same applies to controlling the money supply in the absence of the Fed. What market mechanism will put price, supply demand AND currency value all in tune. free-market magic to some, unexplained garbage to me.

The derivatives market only crashed because of bad mortgage lending policies, which flooded the market with undercollateralized "A" paper given to high risk borrowers, not because of anything having to do with "under-regulation" of the market.

Speaking of people who haven't done their homework......

Hello People, this (the above post) is an example of a brain on drugs.

reminds me of the 1980s hearings into the Savings ane Loan scandals. A big honcho testified before congressional committees and basically said 'what else were we to do..you left us unregulated with no directions'

lol

 

[Oddball]

"I got nothing" is much more concise and accurate.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

What you say and the reality of the situation are two different things.

Trading in mortgage paper has been going on long since before either of us were born.

Were the mortgages being traded properly collateralized and decently seasoned, the market probably would've held together despite the economic downturn, rather than collapsing when the inordinate amount excessively risky contracts went into default.

And I'm rather well brushed up on my shit, sport, thankyouverymuch.

yeah and derivitives are not inherently evil. they worked just fine before they were branched out by people laughing all the way to the bank at the stupidity of a system where regulation was lax or nonexistent.

the market was corrupt. the rest is bs monetary 'I know more than you' jerk off talk.

 

[The Rabbi]

As id to prove it I expect the next post refuting what you say to be full of why regulation is a good thing.

Wrong again Bozo, because HE already stated why regulation is a good...and...NEEDED thing.

good gosh, are you this much of a simpleton in real life?

Transparency and rule of law are the only regulation needed.

Yeah, and the market is filled honest men doing god's work.

Can you post something that does not demonstrate your social incompetence as well as your lack of knowledge? I somehow doubt it.

For a refresher course: derivatives are part of the futures market. The futures market's function is to reduce risk. The derivatives markets actually functioned just fine, bearing in mind that losing money is a risk you take in investing.
The issues Devnell brings up actually are the result of too much regulation. The S&L scandal is a good example of businesses (S&Ls) that came about because of regulation and went out of business for the same reason.

 

[Oddball]

What you say and the reality of the situation are two different things.

Trading in mortgage paper has been going on long since before either of us were born.

Were the mortgages being traded properly collateralized and decently seasoned, the market probably would've held together despite the economic downturn, rather than collapsing when the inordinate amount excessively risky contracts went into default.

And I'm rather well brushed up on my shit, sport, thankyouverymuch.

yeah and derivitives are not inherently evil. they worked just fine before they were branched out by people laughing all the way to the bank at the stupidity of a system where regulation was lax or nonexistent.

the market was corrupt. the rest is bs monetary 'I know more than you' jerk off talk.

Well, I do know more than you, butt stabber.....You prove it with your every intellectually vapid post.

Now, scamper back to your usual station of busting on Reagan and Rand...You look just slightly less of an imbecile in that department.

 

[antagon]

As id to prove it I expect the next post refuting what you say to be full of why regulation is a good thing.

Wrong again Bozo, because HE already stated why regulation is a good...and...NEEDED thing.

good gosh, are you this much of a simpleton in real life?

Transparency and rule of law are the only regulation needed.

Yeah, and the market is filled honest men doing god's work.

Can you post something that does not demonstrate your social incompetence as well as your lack of knowledge? I somehow doubt it.

For a refresher course: derivatives are part of the futures market. The futures market's function is to reduce risk. The derivatives markets actually functioned just fine, bearing in mind that losing money is a risk you take in investing.
The issues Devnell brings up actually are the result of too much regulation. The S&L scandal is a good example of businesses (S&Ls) that came about because of regulation and went out of business for the same reason.

creative hedging, history has shown us in the last five years, isnt going to mitigate your risk in the end. it was musical chairs with the contracts behind shit loans. alas, the music stopped.

some regulation, like a market structure, should be emplaced on CDSs and link notes, etc so that they can actually play the role that they were meant to, instead of originating banks playing investment banks for suckers. too much is at stake when the game is up.

secondary and third-tier markets shouldnt skew judgement at origination like we've seen. i suggest ratings so that the risk at the instrument level is transposed with the derivative.

what overregulation are you referring to?

 

[antagon]

What you say and the reality of the situation are two different things.

Trading in mortgage paper has been going on long since before either of us were born.

Were the mortgages being traded properly collateralized and decently seasoned, the market probably would've held together despite the economic downturn, rather than collapsing when the inordinate amount excessively risky contracts went into default.

And I'm rather well brushed up on my shit, sport, thankyouverymuch.

yeah and derivitives are not inherently evil. they worked just fine before they were branched out by people laughing all the way to the bank at the stupidity of a system where regulation was lax or nonexistent.

the market was corrupt. the rest is bs monetary 'I know more than you' jerk off talk.

Well, I do know more than you, butt stabber.....You prove it with your every intellectually vapid post.

Now, scamper back to your usual station of busting on Reagan and Rand...You look just slightly less of an imbecile in that department.

add in a mention of years of comical rates strategy, and dev's position is spot on.

 

[The Rabbi]

Wrong again Bozo, because HE already stated why regulation is a good...and...NEEDED thing.

good gosh, are you this much of a simpleton in real life?

Yeah, and the market is filled honest men doing god's work.

Can you post something that does not demonstrate your social incompetence as well as your lack of knowledge? I somehow doubt it.

For a refresher course: derivatives are part of the futures market. The futures market's function is to reduce risk. The derivatives markets actually functioned just fine, bearing in mind that losing money is a risk you take in investing.
The issues Devnell brings up actually are the result of too much regulation. The S&L scandal is a good example of businesses (S&Ls) that came about because of regulation and went out of business for the same reason.

creative hedging, history has shown us in the last five years, isnt going to mitigate your risk in the end. it was musical chairs with the contracts behind shit loans. alas, the music stopped.

some regulation, like a market structure, should be emplaced on CDSs and link notes, etc so that they can actually play the role that they were meant to, instead of originating banks playing investment banks for suckers. too much is at stake when the game is up.

secondary and third-tier markets shouldnt skew judgement at origination like we've seen. i suggest ratings so that the risk at the instrument level is transposed with the derivative.

what overregulation are you referring to?

Do you have the slightest fucking idea what you are talking about? I doubt it from this post.

 

[antagon]

Can you post something that does not demonstrate your social incompetence as well as your lack of knowledge? I somehow doubt it.

For a refresher course: derivatives are part of the futures market. The futures market's function is to reduce risk. The derivatives markets actually functioned just fine, bearing in mind that losing money is a risk you take in investing.
The issues Devnell brings up actually are the result of too much regulation. The S&L scandal is a good example of businesses (S&Ls) that came about because of regulation and went out of business for the same reason.

creative hedging, history has shown us in the last five years, isnt going to mitigate your risk in the end. it was musical chairs with the contracts behind shit loans. alas, the music stopped.

some regulation, like a market structure, should be emplaced on CDSs and link notes, etc so that they can actually play the role that they were meant to, instead of originating banks playing investment banks for suckers. too much is at stake when the game is up.

secondary and third-tier markets shouldnt skew judgement at origination like we've seen. i suggest ratings so that the risk at the instrument level is transposed with the derivative.

what overregulation are you referring to?

Do you have the slightest fucking idea what you are talking about? I doubt it from this post.

you doubt it? im heartbroken.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

creative hedging, history has shown us in the last five years, isnt going to mitigate your risk in the end. it was musical chairs with the contracts behind shit loans. alas, the music stopped.

some regulation, like a market structure, should be emplaced on CDSs and link notes, etc so that they can actually play the role that they were meant to, instead of originating banks playing investment banks for suckers. too much is at stake when the game is up.

secondary and third-tier markets shouldnt skew judgement at origination like we've seen. i suggest ratings so that the risk at the instrument level is transposed with the derivative.

what overregulation are you referring to?

Do you have the slightest fucking idea what you are talking about? I doubt it from this post.

you doubt it? im heartbroken.

that makes two of us.

 

[The Rabbi]

OK. You also doubt he has the slightest fucking idea what he's talking about. Glad we agree.

 

[Care4all]

Our stock market is a CASINO....holy crud, get out of Dodge NOW! (Note to self)