Free Agency versu destiny

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by Markainion, Jun 22, 2005.

  1. Markainion
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    Markainion Member

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    Free agency versus predestined, destiny, preordained. I decided to ask the hardest religious question I know. Just to see what other people opinions are on this matter. How can both coexist, afterall doesn't over ride the other?

    I think I have an answers on this, it actually came to me when a girl I thought, from first sight, that I was destined to marry, told me that she had met they guy she was going to marry. It’s my fault really, I was at the time uncomfortable with dating a high school student, and so I let some distance develop between us waiting for a few months to pass for her to finally graduate. Before she graduated she met the guy she would eventually marry, oh well that’s history.

    The day she told me her feelings about her future husband, she also asked me a question about families. The question regarded adopted children (she for reasons she feared she wouldn’t have children of her own, it’s a long story) and her belief that adopted children in families where destined to be with there adopted parents.

    The answer to this free agency and destiny came to me in response to her sincere inquiry, remember at the time I was torn by her telling me about her being destined to marry this other guy. I will tell you late if anyone cares what I told her? Also feel free to make any comments on this subject you want or post your personnel beliefs. .

    P.S. I met her a couple of years later she was hers six month old baby girl, her fears in not having a child were unjustified.
     
  2. 5stringJeff
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    5stringJeff Senior Member

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    I think it's clear that God has given us free will, especially in terms of salvation. If God chose to intentionally create people without offering slavation, then He could not be a loving or merciful God. But He does offer salvation to all, and He does want all people to come to salvation. Moreover, if we were predestined to make certain choices (about salvation, or about marriage, sexual relations, etc.etc.) then how could God judge us? If I was predestined to be saved, then why would I want to change my living habits? Predestination is a slippery slope that leads to the abuse of grace.
     
  3. Markainion
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    Markainion Member

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    Your right free agency requires free will and God can’t judge us if we don’t have freedom to choose our own destiny. On the other hand a lot of people believe in sole mates, luck and that they’re destined for greatness, this goes in many respect against free agency, as it often requires divine intervention.

    As for my friend Mariah the girl that believes that adopted children are destined to be adopted by their adopted parents. It is for the most part just a kind belief. I told her the best thing that I could; for free agency and destiny to coexist there must be redundancy in God’s plan. Meaning there can’t simple be a single sole mate in the world, or specific children that need to be adopted, but maybe that a small percentage of the population are meant to have a special relationship with each other, but not necessarily destined to meet or form a specific type of relationship. Simple put, if they do happen to meet, their going to have something special develop, given a decent chance to get to know one another.

    Anyway what I was trying to get at. In the bible there is many revelations of things that are suppose to come about. How does God guarantee that this will happen, while at the same time leave man to his own free agency? Any thought about how God makes thing come about?
     
  4. manu1959
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    manu1959 Left Coast Isolationist

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    free will...

    he uses a magic wand
     
  5. Markainion
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    Markainion Member

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    Cool.
     
  6. manu1959
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    manu1959 Left Coast Isolationist

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    way cool!
     
  7. 5stringJeff
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    5stringJeff Senior Member

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    Part of it is that God knows the future already. Knowing the future does not necessarily mean control over the future. For example (props to -=d=- for this one), I know my wife will give me a hug when I come home from work today, even though I have no control over that.
     
  8. Markainion
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    Markainion Member

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    I believe that God knows us better than we know ourselves, and God generally knows what we are going to do in our life better than we do. I don’t think this violets free agency or free will. It as far as I know it’s a centerpiece to most western religions, (Christian, Judea, even from what little I know about Muslims.)

    There is a bit of a gray area with respect to free will versus destiny when one automatic assumes that God know how everyone’s life is going to play out. If God knew for sure that Hitler was going to be as bad as he was in life, it violates your own quote.
    Now if God knew within 95% or even 99.9% certainty that Hitler was going to become what he was in life, that doesn’t violate free agency. If he was 100% certain, that sound more like Hitler was destined to be evil, therefore he had no real salvation. After all if Hitler didn’t become who he was, there was still plenty of Evil Nazis that could have filled Hitler’s role, don’t you think?

    If God knew the future by foreseeing or even visiting it, it doesn’t really matter, and then to at least to God, a person was destined to play his/her part in creating the future. If God chose a person’s path in life for them or simple let them choose it for themselves. God saw the future and chose to do nothing about it, leaving thing to simply play out. If God chose to intervene at specific times in someone’s life, God again chooses a persons fate, by virtue of selecting one to and not to intervene. Unless time is linear then God has a limited time to help a person reach salvation. If time is linear, how did God know ones future in the first place?

    I guess to simplify all of this. All ask a simple question instead. Is God activity involved in creating mankind’s future, or is God simply waiting for ours life to end, to pass his judgment? I personally believe that God is activity involved in mankind’s affairs, even though I am not sure he is actively involved in man’s/women’s day to day affairs.
     
  9. menewa
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    menewa Member

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    joke on the subject of predestination told to me by constitutional history professor last semester:

    A preacher of free will and a preacher of predestination were enjoying some chicken wings.

    "I was destined to eat this chicken wing," said the predestination preacher.

    To counter, the free will preacher knocked the chicken wing out of his hand and onto the dirty floor.
     
  10. 5stringJeff
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    5stringJeff Senior Member

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    :laugh: :clap:
     

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