Francis Keys bridge hit by ship. Bridge collapses, mass casualty event.

[AZrailwhale]

Been there, done that too!

Did you get the T shirt?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Did you get the T shirt?

Wearing it right now!

 

[AZrailwhale]

Sorry! Incorrect. Nowhere near the width of that harbor.

The Rhine river, one of the longest and most important waterways in Europe, has a maximum width of approximately 775 meters.
travelasker.com/how-wide-is-the-rhine-river/

Well, that’s my mistake for the minute. But it still serves to make my point that the Engineers could bridge the harbor very quickly. I never built a ribbon bridge, but the old M4T6 floating bridge had ten meter floats (if my memory is correct) that could be assembled in about a half hour by one twelve man squad. The ribbon bridge is much faster. The truck carrying the folded section backs up to the river, the driver pulls a lever that drops the bridge into the water and it unfolds by itself. A soldier then walks out and lifts the folded handrail into position and a boat pushes it into position while two more soldiers install the pins that connect it to the bridge. Total time is under ten minutes, most of which is the boat positioning the section.

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

You are so incredibly full of shit!

I speak from experience. I am a mariner and a captain.

 

[Synthaholic]

Is it really funny that people died?

These are the same scumbags who whine after a school shooting that we shouldn't "politicize a tragedy".

 

[para bellum]

You seem to be what ragbaggers (sailors) like me call stinkpotters (powerboaters) like you. We have to know how to handle a boat, stinkpotters just know how to push the throttles and steer.

I always called it blowboaters and stinkpotters, lol. I'm both. I don't really care, I never met a boat I didn't like.

I think there are a couple stinkpotters on this thread that think their boat is the only kind of boat ever built...

But I've always considered "sailboat racing" an oxymoron. I have a hard time calling 8 knots in anything "racing"...

 

[WorldWatcher]

The military could have a floating bridge for large vehicle traffic in a few months.

Uh, no! Not that long!

Even if they could, a floating bridge would effectively seal the harbor since with a floating bridge there wouldn't be any ship traffic to the port facilities.

WW

 

[para bellum]

A rudder needs prop wash to have any real effect. The steering effect of a rudder without prop wash is minimal and was probably useless in this case.

No, it needs laminar flow of water. That's all.

A vessel under tow still has steerage. Sailboats steer just fine under sail. You can take a power boat out of gear and still control it when it's "coasting". Even the lower unit of an outboard motor affords some steerage when the motor is taken out of gear as long as you are still moving.

The propwash can give you a little help kicking the stern around when you are stopped, but as soon as you have any headway, it's the laminar flow of water over the rudder that is doing the work.

Think of single-screw west-coast style fishing boats like trollers or seiners. They have big "barn door" rudders (needed to prevent broaching in heavy following seas). The prop wash only covers a small area of the rudder. If rudder authority was dependent on prop wash, the rudder would not be so large- it would just be extra drag.

The ship was going 7 kts when it lost power. If it had kept the hydraulics, it would have had steerage and also the bow thruster, and it could have avoided the bridge.

 

[beagle9]

For now it just remains troubling on why the course made good is indicating a definite course change to starboard and a straight line course, as opposed to a course that would indicate the effects of winds and currents.

It's not enough to indicate foul play but it's for fkn sure that it can't be ruled out. Some of the investigations will have dealt with those questions.

But if foul play is suspected, there's no way that it would be made public yet. Maybe never?

Maybe a certain person(s) needed a huge event to happen, otherwise so they could show America a resolve and mental acuity that suggest a certain person can handle a 3:00 AM phone call in the middle of the night so to speak ???? Gotta beat Trump at all cost right, and even better to show that these diversity picks like bootaJ can handle such things with resounding management skills and resolve regarding a major catastrophe right ?
Hey remember Covid right ? Didn't that take place when Democrat's were in a high stakes battle over defeating Trump ? Hmmmmmm.

Gotta throw this sort of stuff in there, because who knows what is or isn't possible these days.

 

[beagle9]

Even if they could, a floating bridge would effectively seal the harbor since with a floating bridge there wouldn't be any ship traffic to the port facilities.

WW

Such a bridge wouldn't have to run the harbor on the same route as the existing bridge would it ? Get the harbor open for ship traffic immediately, and ferry workers and supplies on another route for now.

 

[beagle9]

No, it needs laminar flow of water. That's all.

A vessel under tow still has steerage. Sailboats steer just fine under sail. You can take a power boat out of gear and still control it when it's "coasting". Even the lower unit of an outboard motor affords some steerage when the motor is taken out of gear as long as you are still moving.

The propwash can give you a little help kicking the stern around when you are stopped, but as soon as you have any headway, it's the laminar flow of water over the rudder that is doing the work.

Think of single-screw west-coast style fishing boats like trollers or seiners. They have big "barn door" rudders (needed to prevent broaching in heavy following seas). The prop wash only covers a small area of the rudder. If rudder authority was dependent on prop wash, the rudder would not be so large- it would just be extra drag.

The ship was going 7 kts when it lost power. If it had kept the hydraulics, it would have had steerage and also the bow thruster, and it could have avoided the bridge.

In the sped up version of the video, it appears to take a right turn with smoke bellowing from the stack. Was the ship under power during the turn ? In the slowed version of the video however, the ship looks to be in a slower drift turn, but still no answer for the bellowing smoke and power return that seemingly had no effect on the ship's needed course change in direction when it plowed into the pillar.

 

[para bellum]

In the sped up version of the video, it appears to take a right turn with smoke bellowing from the stack. Was the ship under power during the turn ? In the slowed version of the video however, the ship looks to be in a slower drift turn, but still no answer for the bellowing smoke and power return that seemingly had no effect on the ship's needed course change in direction when it plowed into the pillar.

It looks a lot like the hook caught, and the stern started to swing around. We know that order was given immediately after power was lost from the voice recorder.

So it's dragging the anchor for a couple minutes, the ship is "crabbing" with the current, so by then the port side anchor is on the starboard side of the ship, the anchor bites and the stern kicks around, the bow pulls in, and then the collision...

The lights came back on just an instant before the smoke started billowing, making me think the smoke was the emergency or auxiliary generator(s).

You have to be careful how you view that video, the angle makes you think the ship was traveling sort of parallel to the bridge and it's not. The shipping channel is perpendicular to the bridge, and the ship had wandered to the right side of the channel.

This is the harbor chart.

 

[beagle9]

It looks a lot like the hook caught, and the stern started to swing around. We know that order was given immediately after power was lost from the voice recorder.

So it's dragging the anchor for a couple minutes, the ship is "crabbing" with the current, so by then the port side anchor is on the starboard side of the ship, the anchor bites and the stern kicks around, the bow pulls in, and then the collision...

The lights came back on just an instant before the smoke started billowing, making me think the smoke was the emergency or auxiliary generator(s).

You have to be careful how you view that video, the angle makes you think the ship was traveling sort of parallel to the bridge and it's not. The shipping channel is perpendicular to the bridge, and the ship had wandered to the right side of the channel.

This is the harbor chart.

View attachment 924492

If the hook finally caught, then you are of the opinion that the ship was in too close by this point, and therefore the ship hit in a swinging effect instead of a foward momentum effect ? Yes I agree that the video does give optics that are confusing to the untrained eye, so caution has to be taken in one's assessment of the video. I guess it needs to be established as to where the smoke was actually emanating from.

 

[Woodznutz]

Since I've heard the ship was having power problems at the dock, perhaps it was the aux power buss failing.

All the more reason for a tugboat escort.

 

[beagle9]

All the more reason for a tugboat escort.

Many balls were dropped so to speak, and therefore catastrophe was the result. Lessons learned, but tragic one's for sure.

 

[tahuyaman]

I was a US Navy officer, qualified Officer of the Deck, Surface Warfare officer, and modified 600 psi and 1200 psi steam plant engineer. I drove submarines, cruisers and carriers during my career. I think I am just a little bit more qualified than you in this area.

If you think a container ship can maintain the ability to steer and maneuver with dead engines, you're not nearly as knowledgeable as you think. Actually you sound like a clown.

 

[tahuyaman]

A rudder needs prop wash to have any real effect. The steering effect of a rudder without prop wash is minimal and was probably useless in this case.

Correct. Prop thrust is required for a Motor Vessel to have the ability to steer or maneuver. With dead engines, the vessel is at the total mercy of the currents.

 

[tahuyaman]

… A vessel under tow still has steerage….

That’s not necessarily true. I work for a tow boat operation. We often execute what we call a ”hip tow” in areas where we need accurate and responsive maneuverability as a MV with disabled engines has lost that ability.

 

[Donald H]

A rudder needs prop wash to have any real effect. The steering effect of a rudder without prop wash is minimal and was probably useless in this case.

pure baloney.

 

[para bellum]

That’s not necessarily true. I work for a tow boat operation. We often execute what we call a ”hip tow” in areas where we need accurate and responsive maneuverability as a MV with disabled engines has lost that ability.

That is when you raft the boats together for maneuvering around the dock.

It has nothing to do with the fact that a vessel under tow can be steered. Even when a boat is anchored in a current, you can swing it around by changing the rudder angle.

A boat that is side-tied to the dock in a river. You can set the rudder to hold the stern tight to the dock, or push it away to bring the bow in. I did this all the time with my Ingrid so I could reach the waterline with the scrub brush.

A boat's rudder is no different than an airplane's rudder. It needs laminar flow across the surface, that is all. If you are driving along in your boat and you take it out of gear, you don't lose steering.