Founding Fathers: We Are Not a Christian Nation

[WinterBorn]

I have a question for those who claim we are, in fact, a Christian nation (not just a nation of predominantly Christian people).

Would you say that the basic tenets of Christianity would be contained in the 10 Commandments?

I know where you are trying to go with this, free masons and all the rest, I have read on the internet on this subject the past 20 years now I have been in the political chatrooms and now the forums , it is a long old debate, that always ends in a stalemate.

If the rules of Christianity demand that there be no other gods, that there is only one god, that you not take his name in vain, and that the sabbath be kept holy, then this is certainly not a Christian nation, since we do none of those (by law).

Because its ridiculous notion, again you can not take the bible word for word, its about faith not words and most of the great things we have done was people who had faith in a christiand and the old god of the old testament judaism

And people having faith is not the issue. The question is whether or not we are a Christian nation. And since any faith can be found here, and all faiths can be elected to office, it is NOT a Christian nation.

 

[Lakhota]

57% Of Republicans Say Dismantle Constitution And Make Christianity National Religion

A Public Policy Polling (PPP) national survey conducted between February 20th and February 22nd of Republican voters, found that an astonishing 57 percent of Republicans want to dismantle the Constitution, and establish Christianity as the official national religion. Only 30 percent oppose making Christianity the national religion.

Although the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment clearly states that “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,” GOP voters want to cast aside that provision and impose Christianity as the official American religion.

While a number of red states have passed statutes forbidding the implementation of Islam-based sharia law in their states, Republicans apparently have no misgivings about turning the United States into a Christian theocracy. The poll’s crosstabs reveal that support for making Christianity the official religion is strongest among Mike Huckabee (94 percent), Rick Perry (83 percent), and Ben Carson (78 percent) supporters.

More: 57% Of Republicans Say Dismantle Constitution And Make Christianity National Religion

Secular sanity must prevail.

 

[BluesLegend]

So you liberals wave the Constitution like a battle sword attacking Christians while at the same time you undermine it to transform America into some socialist slave state, got it. /eyeroll

Who is attacking Christians? Why is having a secular nation an attack on Christians? You got to be the defacto ruling class for most of the time we have been a nation. And did so without taking responsibility for any failures or trangressions.

And when people start demanding that you relinquish your power in the gov't, per the US Constitution, you whine about being attacked?? lol

You liberals are hilarious in your dishonesty. You stand there, cookie crumbs down your shirt, chocolate smeared on your face, mouth stuffed full of cookie and claim you didn't sneak a cookie. lol

Quit spouting nonsense and tell us exactly how Christians are being attacked? If attempting to label me a liberal helps you feel better, by all means go for it. No need to worry about accuracy.

What would be the point, from your post its clear discussing the topic with you would be a complete waste of time.

 

[WinterBorn]

So you liberals wave the Constitution like a battle sword attacking Christians while at the same time you undermine it to transform America into some socialist slave state, got it. /eyeroll

Who is attacking Christians? Why is having a secular nation an attack on Christians? You got to be the defacto ruling class for most of the time we have been a nation. And did so without taking responsibility for any failures or trangressions.

And when people start demanding that you relinquish your power in the gov't, per the US Constitution, you whine about being attacked?? lol

You liberals are hilarious in your dishonesty. You stand there, cookie crumbs down your shirt, chocolate smeared on your face, mouth stuffed full of cookie and claim you didn't sneak a cookie. lol

Quit spouting nonsense and tell us exactly how Christians are being attacked? If attempting to label me a liberal helps you feel better, by all means go for it. No need to worry about accuracy.

What would be the point, from your post its clear discussing the topic with you would be a complete waste of time.

The point would be to be shown not to be a whining liar.

From your posts it is clear that you have no basis for your claims of christians being attacked. Thanks for playing.

 

[The Rabbi]

I have a question for those who claim we are, in fact, a Christian nation (not just a nation of predominantly Christian people).

Would you say that the basic tenets of Christianity would be contained in the 10 Commandments?

That's a clown question, bro.

Is it? I would submit that the 10 Commandments are the basic laws of the religion.

And when you consider the first 4 commandments demand that no other religion be tolerated, it makes things obvious that were are not, in fact, a Christian nation.

Thats a clown answer, bro.

 

[Wyatt earp]

when a person tradionaly swears Under oath what does he put his left on? The constitution ? The Koran ?

Or the Bible?

 

[The Rabbi]

I have a question for those who claim we are, in fact, a Christian nation (not just a nation of predominantly Christian people).

Would you say that the basic tenets of Christianity would be contained in the 10 Commandments?

I know where you are trying to go with this, free masons and all the rest, I have read on the internet on this subject the past 20 years now I have been in the political chatrooms and now the forums , it is a long old debate, that always ends in a stalemate.

If the rules of Christianity demand that there be no other gods, that there is only one god, that you not take his name in vain, and that the sabbath be kept holy, then this is certainly not a Christian nation, since we do none of those (by law).

Except the rules of christiianity are not from the 10 COmmandments. The rest of the post is fallacy as well. IT's like saying since the English drink tea and eat crumpets and we dont do those things then we werent a colony of England.

 

[The Rabbi]

These were from one of our founding fathers: He doesn't reference a state religion, nor should he, but I think it is quite clear what he is referring to.



“It is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor.”- George Washington

“Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable.”- George Washington

"We beseech [God] to pardon our national and other transgressions"…- George Washington, Thanksgiving Proclamation 1789

"Every man, conducting himself as a good citizen, and being accountable to God alone for his religious opinions, ought to be protected in worshipping the Deity according to the dictates of his own conscience." George Washington, letter to the United Baptist Chamber of Virginia, May 1789

"We have abundant reason to rejoice that in this Land the light of truth and reason has triumphed over the power of bigotry and superstition ... In this enlightened Age and in this Land of equal liberty it is our boast, that a man's religious tenets will not forfeit the protection of the Laws, nor deprive him of the right of attaining and holding the highest Offices that are known in the United States."
-- George Washington, letter to the members of the New Church in Baltimore, January 27, 1793

"Government being, among other purposes, instituted to protect the consciences of men from oppression, it certainly is the duty of Rulers, not only to abstain from it themselves, but according to their stations, to prevent it in others."
-- George Washington, letter to the Religious Society called the Quakers, September 28,1789

"Dr. Rush told me (he had it from Asa Green) that when the clergy addressed General Washington, on his departure from the government, it was observed in their consultation that he had never, on any occasion, said a word to the public which showed a belief in the Christian religion, and they thought they should so pen their address as to force him at length to disclose publicly whether he was a Christian or not. However, he observed, the old fox was too cunning for them. He answered every article of their address particularly, except that, which he passed over without notice."
-- Thomas Jefferson, quoted from Jefferson's Works, Vol. iv., p. 572.

Also, if you can find any record of George Washington taking Holy Communion, you should publish it. As no scholar has done so yet. And many have documented quotes from friends, family and clergy that say they never saw him do so.

The founders knew of the balance regarding religion and govt. Just as they foresaw the implications of an oppressive govt, britain, they also could see the ramifications of a national religion ie puritans, burning witches etc. An oppressive govt is exactly the same as one religion demanding obedience.

Which is exactly why the founding fathers allowed all people to worship as they chose, and for the gov't to have no official religion.

Bullshit again.
The federal gov't had no official religion. State governments did.

 

[WinterBorn]

I have a question for those who claim we are, in fact, a Christian nation (not just a nation of predominantly Christian people).

Would you say that the basic tenets of Christianity would be contained in the 10 Commandments?

That's a clown question, bro.

Is it? I would submit that the 10 Commandments are the basic laws of the religion.

And when you consider the first 4 commandments demand that no other religion be tolerated, it makes things obvious that were are not, in fact, a Christian nation.

Thats a clown answer, bro.

Nice reply. Post without actually saying anything.

 

[WinterBorn]

when a person tradionaly swears Under oath what does he put his left on? The constitution ? The Koran ?

Or the Bible?

Is that because using the Bible is required? Or because it is a choice?

 

[WinterBorn]

I have a question for those who claim we are, in fact, a Christian nation (not just a nation of predominantly Christian people).

Would you say that the basic tenets of Christianity would be contained in the 10 Commandments?

I know where you are trying to go with this, free masons and all the rest, I have read on the internet on this subject the past 20 years now I have been in the political chatrooms and now the forums , it is a long old debate, that always ends in a stalemate.

If the rules of Christianity demand that there be no other gods, that there is only one god, that you not take his name in vain, and that the sabbath be kept holy, then this is certainly not a Christian nation, since we do none of those (by law).

Except the rules of christiianity are not from the 10 COmmandments. The rest of the post is fallacy as well. IT's like saying since the English drink tea and eat crumpets and we dont do those things then we werent a colony of England.

Bad analogy. I am saying that, since the laws or rules of Christianity demand that there be only one god, that no other gods are tolerated, this nation (which tolerates all faiths) is not a Christian nation.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Seems to me I don't remember a president in history put his right hand up and his left hand on the Koran being sworn in as president of the USA

How come no separation of church and state during that ceremony?

 

[WinterBorn]

These were from one of our founding fathers: He doesn't reference a state religion, nor should he, but I think it is quite clear what he is referring to.



“It is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor.”- George Washington

“Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable.”- George Washington

"We beseech [God] to pardon our national and other transgressions"…- George Washington, Thanksgiving Proclamation 1789

"Every man, conducting himself as a good citizen, and being accountable to God alone for his religious opinions, ought to be protected in worshipping the Deity according to the dictates of his own conscience." George Washington, letter to the United Baptist Chamber of Virginia, May 1789

"We have abundant reason to rejoice that in this Land the light of truth and reason has triumphed over the power of bigotry and superstition ... In this enlightened Age and in this Land of equal liberty it is our boast, that a man's religious tenets will not forfeit the protection of the Laws, nor deprive him of the right of attaining and holding the highest Offices that are known in the United States."
-- George Washington, letter to the members of the New Church in Baltimore, January 27, 1793

"Government being, among other purposes, instituted to protect the consciences of men from oppression, it certainly is the duty of Rulers, not only to abstain from it themselves, but according to their stations, to prevent it in others."
-- George Washington, letter to the Religious Society called the Quakers, September 28,1789

"Dr. Rush told me (he had it from Asa Green) that when the clergy addressed General Washington, on his departure from the government, it was observed in their consultation that he had never, on any occasion, said a word to the public which showed a belief in the Christian religion, and they thought they should so pen their address as to force him at length to disclose publicly whether he was a Christian or not. However, he observed, the old fox was too cunning for them. He answered every article of their address particularly, except that, which he passed over without notice."
-- Thomas Jefferson, quoted from Jefferson's Works, Vol. iv., p. 572.

Also, if you can find any record of George Washington taking Holy Communion, you should publish it. As no scholar has done so yet. And many have documented quotes from friends, family and clergy that say they never saw him do so.

The founders knew of the balance regarding religion and govt. Just as they foresaw the implications of an oppressive govt, britain, they also could see the ramifications of a national religion ie puritans, burning witches etc. An oppressive govt is exactly the same as one religion demanding obedience.

Which is exactly why the founding fathers allowed all people to worship as they chose, and for the gov't to have no official religion.

Bullshit again.
The federal gov't had no official religion. State governments did.

Is that "had" or is it "have"?

 

[koshergrl]

 

[The Rabbi]

I have a question for those who claim we are, in fact, a Christian nation (not just a nation of predominantly Christian people).

Would you say that the basic tenets of Christianity would be contained in the 10 Commandments?

I know where you are trying to go with this, free masons and all the rest, I have read on the internet on this subject the past 20 years now I have been in the political chatrooms and now the forums , it is a long old debate, that always ends in a stalemate.

If the rules of Christianity demand that there be no other gods, that there is only one god, that you not take his name in vain, and that the sabbath be kept holy, then this is certainly not a Christian nation, since we do none of those (by law).

Except the rules of christiianity are not from the 10 COmmandments. The rest of the post is fallacy as well. IT's like saying since the English drink tea and eat crumpets and we dont do those things then we werent a colony of England.

Bad analogy. I am saying that, since the laws or rules of Christianity demand that there be only one god, that no other gods are tolerated, this nation (which tolerates all faiths) is not a Christian nation.

Since the laws of Chrisitianity demand no work be done on Sunday and all government offices are closed on Sunday then we are a Christian nation.
See how that works?

 

[The Rabbi]

These were from one of our founding fathers: He doesn't reference a state religion, nor should he, but I think it is quite clear what he is referring to.



“It is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor.”- George Washington

“Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable.”- George Washington

"We beseech [God] to pardon our national and other transgressions"…- George Washington, Thanksgiving Proclamation 1789

"Every man, conducting himself as a good citizen, and being accountable to God alone for his religious opinions, ought to be protected in worshipping the Deity according to the dictates of his own conscience." George Washington, letter to the United Baptist Chamber of Virginia, May 1789

"We have abundant reason to rejoice that in this Land the light of truth and reason has triumphed over the power of bigotry and superstition ... In this enlightened Age and in this Land of equal liberty it is our boast, that a man's religious tenets will not forfeit the protection of the Laws, nor deprive him of the right of attaining and holding the highest Offices that are known in the United States."
-- George Washington, letter to the members of the New Church in Baltimore, January 27, 1793

"Government being, among other purposes, instituted to protect the consciences of men from oppression, it certainly is the duty of Rulers, not only to abstain from it themselves, but according to their stations, to prevent it in others."
-- George Washington, letter to the Religious Society called the Quakers, September 28,1789

"Dr. Rush told me (he had it from Asa Green) that when the clergy addressed General Washington, on his departure from the government, it was observed in their consultation that he had never, on any occasion, said a word to the public which showed a belief in the Christian religion, and they thought they should so pen their address as to force him at length to disclose publicly whether he was a Christian or not. However, he observed, the old fox was too cunning for them. He answered every article of their address particularly, except that, which he passed over without notice."
-- Thomas Jefferson, quoted from Jefferson's Works, Vol. iv., p. 572.

Also, if you can find any record of George Washington taking Holy Communion, you should publish it. As no scholar has done so yet. And many have documented quotes from friends, family and clergy that say they never saw him do so.

The founders knew of the balance regarding religion and govt. Just as they foresaw the implications of an oppressive govt, britain, they also could see the ramifications of a national religion ie puritans, burning witches etc. An oppressive govt is exactly the same as one religion demanding obedience.

Which is exactly why the founding fathers allowed all people to worship as they chose, and for the gov't to have no official religion.

Bullshit again.
The federal gov't had no official religion. State governments did.

Is that "had" or is it "have"?

That was the original formulation of the country and Constitution.

 

[WinterBorn]

Seems to me I don't remember a president in history put his right hand up and his left hand on the Koran being sworn in as president of the USA

How come no separation of church and state during that ceremony?

Because the president being sworn in CHOSE to use the Bible. Not all presidents used the same Bible, and two were sworn in without a Bible at all. Were Teddy Roosevelt and John Quincy Adams not presidents?

I have never said that religion is forbidden. Just that we are not a Christian nation. There is a difference.

 

[The Rabbi]

Seems to me I don't remember a president in history put his right hand up and his left hand on the Koran being sworn in as president of the USA

How come no separation of church and state during that ceremony?

Because the president being sworn in CHOSE to use the Bible. Not all presidents used the same Bible, and two were sworn in without a Bible at all. Were Teddy Roosevelt and John Quincy Adams not presidents?

I have never said that religion is forbidden. Just that we are not a Christian nation. There is a difference.

If we arent a Christian nation then why do people swear on a Bible? The fact that a couple didnt just enforces the idea that the norm is to do so. Only Christians swear on a Bible.

 

[WinterBorn]

I have a question for those who claim we are, in fact, a Christian nation (not just a nation of predominantly Christian people).

Would you say that the basic tenets of Christianity would be contained in the 10 Commandments?

I know where you are trying to go with this, free masons and all the rest, I have read on the internet on this subject the past 20 years now I have been in the political chatrooms and now the forums , it is a long old debate, that always ends in a stalemate.

If the rules of Christianity demand that there be no other gods, that there is only one god, that you not take his name in vain, and that the sabbath be kept holy, then this is certainly not a Christian nation, since we do none of those (by law).

Except the rules of christiianity are not from the 10 COmmandments. The rest of the post is fallacy as well. IT's like saying since the English drink tea and eat crumpets and we dont do those things then we werent a colony of England.

Bad analogy. I am saying that, since the laws or rules of Christianity demand that there be only one god, that no other gods are tolerated, this nation (which tolerates all faiths) is not a Christian nation.

Since the laws of Chrisitianity demand no work be done on Sunday and all government offices are closed on Sunday then we are a Christian nation.
See how that works?

Except most gov't offices are closed on saturday AND sunday. And some gov't offices do not close at all. See how that works?

Also, the sabbath is Saturday.

 

[koshergrl]