For Those Who Do Believe In God...

[Avatar4321]

I did this for years (went to church), problem is; you can't ask the hard questions like prove to me that God exists, there are no answers except, you must have faith.

"Prove to me that God exists" isn't a question.

If you ask questions, you get answers. If you make demands why should anyone give you a thing.

The only way to know the truth of God is to find out for yourself. That's a personal journey that includes seeking Divine sources of information. But then you have to have faith to get answers. Because you have to believe that it's possible to learn or you've already shut yourself off to gaining that knowledge.

 

[Amanda]

Is it possible for the writers of man's 'holy books' to be at least as human as the religious and political leaders of our time?

Of course.

If there is a supreme being who gives a shit about this planet, what the fuck happened?

I don't know what that means. Are you saying "bad things" happen and God should stop them? Why should God stop them? Aren't most of the things that happen our own doing? Oh natural disasters... right. Well, you could say there are lessons there too, like don't build your cities below sea level. Do you have children? Do you shelter them from everything, or do you let them experience life and learn from it?

Is it possible for God to exist without the powerful packaging Him/Her up in books of stories, rules and laws used to justify the subjugation of humanity?

Of course. I believe in God and I don't think I've subjugated anyone. Blaming God for people's failings is putting the blame in the wrong place.

"All humans are God's children" - Talk about an 'inconvenient truth'! At least with regards to our recorded history!

-Joe

I don't get that either.

 

[Red Dawn]

God knows if you really have faith and are saved.

If you don't, you go to hell. Pretty simple.



Have fun.

For real? Everyone goes to hell for eternity if they don't believe in your religion?

Holy crap, you have one scary and frightening up religion!

the jews, muslims, and buddists are mellower than that! I'm no expert, but I think jews let anyone who led a decent life into heaven, believer or not. Muslims don't believe in eternal punishment, and that only the truly evil go to hell. And with the buddists, like the benevolent f*cks they are, let you try over and over until you get it right!

 

[Valerie]

Why do you believe?

Explain faith.

I think of Christianity as a discipline that enriches the spirit of my life. I was raised Catholic, but I haven't been to church for many years.

To me faith does not mean there's a big man in the sky or a heavenly afterlife. I don't fear the threat of hell. I have found the Gospels to be personally inspirational enough to always be mindful of the discipline which was instilled in me and as a result I believe my life is richer for it. I have faith in the power of good will, graciousness, mercy and redemption.

FTR I don't believe America has become "Godless" as I believe most people just don't feel comfortable describing themselves as "religious" (I don't) But still the vast majority of Americans are actually at least somehow spiritual.

 

[random3434]

Why do you believe?

Explain faith.

I think of Christianity as a discipline that enriches the spirit of my life. I was raised Catholic, but I haven't been to church for many years.

To me faith does not mean there's a big man in the sky or a heavenly afterlife. I don't fear the threat of hell. I have found the Gospels to be personally inspirational enough to always be mindful of the discipline which was instilled in me and as a result I believe my life is richer for it. I have faith in the power of good will, graciousness, mercy and redemption.

FTR I don't believe America has become "Godless" as I believe most people just don't feel comfortable describing themselves as "religious" (I don't) But still the vast majority of Americans are actually at least somehow spiritual.

Very Nice Val. You feel the same way I do it seems!

 

[AVG-JOE]

"All humans are God's children" - Talk about an 'inconvenient truth'! At least with regards to our recorded history!

-Joe

I don't get that either.

What I mean by the questions you didn't get is this...

"If there is a God of this world, and if it's true that he loves us; then I should not like to be Him, as the suffering that is its history would surely break my heart."
-Penniless European Philosopher, circa 1800's

The history of man's inhumanity to man for greed alone is a disgrace... add to that the suffering, genocide and war resulting from disagreements over religion and the use of religion as a political weapon makes us, as a species, appear quite cruel.

To deny the cruelty of our history is to accept more brutal stupidity than I believe is warranted to excuse our ancestors.

-Joe

 

[Coloradomtnman]

Something that I can't get a straight answer on besides: "Man can't understand the mind of God". or something to that effect, is:

If God created man and endowed humankind with the ability to reason which sets us apart from all other Earthly life, then why is it that one has to suspend reason and have faith in order to be among the saved?

Does it seem simpler that a supreme being created the Universe, planted the fossils of dinosaurs and bipedal primates in the ground but then, inexplicably, leaves the explanation for the fossils out of the book through which He makes His message to humankind known, sends his son, who is Him?, to die on Earth because that will cleanse those who believe Jesus Chrust is the one and true savior of humankind of the sin that Eve committed, so that humans, the only life with souls, can go to Heaven. But if they don't believe, then they are sent to Hell to feel as though they are burning alive for eternity. Not to mention Noah's Ark, and the ancient miracles which do not happen today.

Or is it simpler that the Jewish and Christian and Islamic faiths (not too mention all of the hundred or thousands of other religions) are invented by men, and that the Earth has existed for 4 billion years, humans evolved from more primitive primates, that the Bible was written by Jewish men and then Christian men to provide emotional appeasement to humans who felt lost, alone, scared of death, and without meaningful existences. Over the millenia it has developed methods for scaring people in converting (with the threat of everlasting damnation), and arguments to refute reason's proddings: Man can't understand the mind of God, God works in mysterious ways, You must have faith to understand... And that people turn to religion in moments of fear, doubt, anguish, and refuse to communicate rationally about it because their beliefs are based entirely on emotions. That or they've been indoctrinated at a young age and its all they know.

One requires that a rational person who operates with reason, suspend their inability to believe in the supernatural and, for some reason, choose to have faith.

The other makes logical sense considering all the scientific data which supports that the Christian religion (and all other faiths) are based on fiction, and that human beings aren't always rational.

I wish there was a benevolent creator who loved me and showed me that love unconditionally, told me I was a chosen one, provided existence with meaning, and then had paradise for me to spend all of eternity in after I die. But I just can't believe that without a reason. A rational reason, not an emotional one.

 

[BrokenAngel]

And not just Christians.

Can you answer any or all of these questions for non-believers? And be prepared if you answer, to defend your answer. Who knows? Maybe you'll just make a believer outta somebody.

If I decide to believe in Jesus Christ, or Mohammed, or whomever, just so I don't go to Hell and go to Heaven (or Paradise or wherever) when I die, then I don't really believe do I? So then why would I choose to believe? How do I choose to believe?

What makes your religion so special that you know its the right one out of all the others out there? How do you know?

Why do you believe?

Explain faith.

Faith is something I have wrestled with my entire life. When I was a child love of God and pure faith flowed freely through my every inch but when I hit 12 or 13 I started throwing myself against anything that seemed to constrain me. There was so much science and so much I could see that it took nothing for me to become the black sheep of the family. God didn't exist and that made perfect sense.. all of these yahoos that believe in some invisible all powerful creator.

I will give you answers as best I can but I am only just coming back to my faith at the age of 26. I guess you could define me as a Christian but I don't follow any true denomination. I base my belief on the Bible itself..

Question 1.) If I decide to believe in Jesus Christ, or Mohammed, or whomever, just so I don't go to Hell and go to Heaven (or Paradise or wherever) when I die, then I don't really believe do I? So then why would I choose to believe? How do I choose to believe?

Answer - The original Hebrew texts don't actually mention hell. The word that is interperated as hell means "in the darkness" and is more accepted as meaning away from God or in the grave. If you WERE to believe there is a hell then according to just about any Christian faith all you need to do is accept Jesus Christ as your savior. That doesn't mean say "I love Jesus you are my savior" bur rather implies you open your heart and take him in. Since Jesus died for our sins even a murderer, child molester, hell Ted Bundy would be accepted into heaven. I don't personally wish that was so.. I would like to think of some of those people roasting on a spit being pierced by little cartoonish demons carrying pitch forks.

Everyone will have a different catalyst in their lives to allow them to believe. For me it was my son. At 2 months old I found he wouldn't calm down for anything but the Bible. I read him scripture every night. I thought at first it might just be my voice so I read him some of my favorite poems as well but that didn't phase him.. only scripture. No one should ever force you to believe what they believe, no one should ever attempt to convert a non-believer or someone of a different faith. Only advice I have is that if you decide to not believe in a God or have any kind of religious faith then you should love something with every fiber of your being.

Question 2.) What makes your religion so special that you know its the right one out of all the others out there? How do you know?

Answer - Like I said I don't have a religion. I am still skeptical about the idea of religion itself. It seems to me that faith is inspired by God but religion is the man made tool it is always accused of being. Catholicism abused its place and forced people to pay their way into heaven. The accounts of hell became more and more disgusting as sermons went on because it brought people to the pews.

I don't know whether or not I am right. I know that I wouldn't begin to persecute someone for having a different way of thinking than I do. This question is another reason why I have kept even the idea of God at arm's length. Take burial for an example... There are many religions that believe you should have your body burned or the soul is trapped for eternity within its flesh. There are others that feel you should be burried whole or you will not be accepted into heaven or be resurected once the world is delivered from evil. I have NO clue how I should be burried because it is something you won't know the truth about until you die. This entire topic falls under that catagory...

Question 3.) Explain faith.

Answer - Faith is a little hard to explain because it is personal and different for each individual. By definition faith is merely believing in something, trusting. To me though, faith is not just trusting in God or believing in His existence. I can look up at the night sky and see an endless sea of pure black littered with diamonds. I see constelations, planets, balls of gas, comets, and the occasional shooting star. I don't feel much of anything though. I take in a breath of cool night wind and I feel chilled, relaxed, calm, but nothing aside from the outter shell feels.

If I look up at that sky though and see God... see the perfection of what He created for us to explore, utilize, enjoy, protect and love.. there is something that awakens inside of me. I can't even begin to explain it, just that I am no longer in need of a jacket because I feel wrapped in warmth. The wind no longer seems to nip my nose or ears but rather brushes soft kisses against my cheeks and every sound, scent, sight.. it just puts me more at ease with everything in my life. I believe in a God and I have faith in Him because it seems to be the right choice from me. I don't know what is right and what is wrong but I know I would rather live my life as if there is a God and be right than live my life as if there isn't a God and be wrong. If this is a 50 - 50 deal.. either I am right or I am wrong I would rather just do what feels right in my heart and be the best person I can be.

 

[BrokenAngel]

The more I read this thread the more saddened I become. People with faith are seeming to feel persecuted off the bat by honest questions and people with no faith are just being crude in their jokes and mockery.

I have a few simple points to make and I think I will be leaving this thread alone for a while...

In regards to God leaving this planet to go to shit... I felt the same way when I was a child. I came to realize something though through time and through personal experience. If there is no suffering how do you know what is good? When life is perfect teenagers still find reasons to complain and moan and groan but what about that first year they live on their own? Within that first year they will usually sit down and in their own mind admit, "You know.. I didn't have it all that bad. I kinda bitched about things that weren't big deals... why did I think I had it rough?"

Now heaven forbid you actually had it hard and if you did you have my deepest sympathies and I hope you are doing everything you can to make up for that pain by living a good and happy life. Treating yourself well to prove to whomever was abusive that you are worth the goodness in life and letting that person know that you will not live how they dictated.

For any of you who have faith and refuse to respond why are you afraid to? Someone who is unsure of faith is asking openly for help. Opening yourself up is nothing that you can be wounded by and God certainly can't be. If a person responds merely to rip you to shreds ignore them. The lack of respect on this topic alone is enough to earn them a place on your ignore list. Then you simply go to church and pray that person finds a path less destructive to themselves and to others.

For those of you trolling just to tear people down, please have mercy on this thread. When someone bears their soul, allows a window into the depths of their heart and mind you do not shatter it. If you were to tell me you truly did believe in the flying spagetti man I would ask you questions to further my understanding but the last thing I would do is tell you what a liar you are.

Since I am ignoring this thread for fears of what it will degrade into I will leave an open invitation to anyone who would honestly want to discuss religion to send me a private message. Otherwise I wish you all nothing but the best..

 

[KittenKoder]

People of which faith?

 

[AVG-JOE]

Something that I can't get a straight answer on besides: "Man can't understand the mind of God". or something to that effect, is:

If God created man and endowed humankind with the ability to reason which sets us apart from all other Earthly life, then why is it that one has to suspend reason and have faith in order to be among the saved?

Does it seem simpler that a supreme being created the Universe, planted the fossils of dinosaurs and bipedal primates in the ground but then, inexplicably, leaves the explanation for the fossils out of the book through which He makes His message to humankind known, sends his son, who is Him?, to die on Earth because that will cleanse those who believe Jesus Chrust is the one and true savior of humankind of the sin that Eve committed, so that humans, the only life with souls, can go to Heaven. But if they don't believe, then they are sent to Hell to feel as though they are burning alive for eternity. Not to mention Noah's Ark, and the ancient miracles which do not happen today.

Or is it simpler that the Jewish and Christian and Islamic faiths (not too mention all of the hundred or thousands of other religions) are invented by men, and that the Earth has existed for 4 billion years, humans evolved from more primitive primates, that the Bible was written by Jewish men and then Christian men to provide emotional appeasement to humans who felt lost, alone, scared of death, and without meaningful existences. Over the millenia it has developed methods for scaring people in converting (with the threat of everlasting damnation), and arguments to refute reason's proddings: Man can't understand the mind of God, God works in mysterious ways, You must have faith to understand... And that people turn to religion in moments of fear, doubt, anguish, and refuse to communicate rationally about it because their beliefs are based entirely on emotions. That or they've been indoctrinated at a young age and its all they know.

One requires that a rational person who operates with reason, suspend their inability to believe in the supernatural and, for some reason, choose to have faith.

The other makes logical sense considering all the scientific data which supports that the Christian religion (and all other faiths) are based on fiction, and that human beings aren't always rational.

I wish there was a benevolent creator who loved me and showed me that love unconditionally, told me I was a chosen one, provided existence with meaning, and then had paradise for me to spend all of eternity in after I die. But I just can't believe that without a reason. A rational reason, not an emotional one.

Add to that the FACT (assuming that you believe in the FACTS of the DNA technology we use to prove paternity cases and the guilt of rapists and murders, it is a FACT)...

...Add to that the FACT that humans, as a species, came out of Africa about 10,000 years ago and spread across the Earth seeking resources to exploit, along with the FACT that we are all cousins, separated by no more than 2,000 generations, and the FACT that all of the physical differences between those cousins can be explained genetically and environmentally, and you have a story of origins that shattered my belief in the Genesis story.

Please note that my logical conclusion regarding Genesis, while it may have shattered my faith in The Bible, it did not shatter my faith; nay, it simply and beautifully opened my mind to spiritual possibilities. I am still impressed with the storied life of a particular Jew named Jesus, if not its historic exploitation by those seeking Earthly power.


LIFE and self awareness are still something unique to our experience... Death remains an unprovable journey...

Perhaps there are dogs in heaven...​

Perhaps we are born again as stars...​

Until someone experiences death and comes back with a video to post on You-Tube, we can only speculate in the privacy of our own minds.

Thank God we're finally starting to get past the point of killing our cousins whose religion and gods we are taught to think of as 'silly'.

-Joe

 

[KittenKoder]

If there are no animals in heaven you couldn't force me to go there ... ever.

 

[AVG-JOE]

The more I read this thread the more saddened I become. People with faith are seeming to feel persecuted off the bat by honest questions and people with no faith are just being crude in their jokes and mockery.

I have a few simple points to make and I think I will be leaving this thread alone for a while...

In regards to God leaving this planet to go to shit... I felt the same way when I was a child. I came to realize something though through time and through personal experience. If there is no suffering how do you know what is good? When life is perfect teenagers still find reasons to complain and moan and groan but what about that first year they live on their own? Within that first year they will usually sit down and in their own mind admit, "You know.. I didn't have it all that bad. I kinda bitched about things that weren't big deals... why did I think I had it rough?"

Now heaven forbid you actually had it hard and if you did you have my deepest sympathies and I hope you are doing everything you can to make up for that pain by living a good and happy life. Treating yourself well to prove to whomever was abusive that you are worth the goodness in life and letting that person know that you will not live how they dictated.

For any of you who have faith and refuse to respond why are you afraid to? Someone who is unsure of faith is asking openly for help. Opening yourself up is nothing that you can be wounded by and God certainly can't be. If a person responds merely to rip you to shreds ignore them. The lack of respect on this topic alone is enough to earn them a place on your ignore list. Then you simply go to church and pray that person finds a path less destructive to themselves and to others.

For those of you trolling just to tear people down, please have mercy on this thread. When someone bears their soul, allows a window into the depths of their heart and mind you do not shatter it. If you were to tell me you truly did believe in the flying spagetti man I would ask you questions to further my understanding but the last thing I would do is tell you what a liar you are.

Since I am ignoring this thread for fears of what it will degrade into I will leave an open invitation to anyone who would honestly want to discuss religion to send me a private message. Otherwise I wish you all nothing but the best..

This is because your view of a teenagers first years on their own is of the late 20th century American experience...

Ask a teenager blossoming into adulthood while begging on the streets of Mumbai... I'll bet you $1.00 that she'll have a valid reason to bitch.

Ask a teenager who lost both his arms looking for scrap metal in a mine-field in Africa... I'll bet you $1.00 that he has a valid reason to bitch.

Shall we take a look at the 2000 years between Rome and late 20th century America?

-Joe

 

[editec]

And not just Christians.

Can you answer any or all of these questions for non-believers?

Probably not.

And be prepared if you answer, to defend your answer.

Okay

Who knows? Maybe you'll just make a believer outta somebody.

Like I care if you believe?

If I decide to believe in Jesus Christ, or Mohammed, or whomever, just so I don't go to Hell and go to Heaven (or Paradise or wherever) when I die, then I don't really believe do I?

Huh? If you believe that giving the store a dollar for a candy bar will get you a candy bar, then you don't believe in candy?

That convolution of logic doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

So then why would I choose to believe?

Who can aswer that question, given its preposterous premise?

How do I choose to believe?

I'm not certain one can choose to believe, to be perfectly frank

What makes your religion so special that you know its the right one out of all the others out there?

What makes you presume that all believers believe that?

Did you CHOOSE to believe that? Obviously you did, even though you don't really KNOW that that's true.

How do you know?

How do you know that I know that? Is that your FAITH working to misinform you about what I believe?

Why do you believe?

Because it's easier than not believing, obviously.

Explain faith.

Faith is believing in something that is not provable.

Much like you have FAITH that you know what belivers believe, without having evidence to support your FAITH in that particular belief.

 

[Anguille]

I don't know what is right and what is wrong but I know I would rather live my life as if there is a God and be right than live my life as if there isn't a God and be wrong. If this is a 50 - 50 deal.. either I am right or I am wrong I would rather just do what feels right in my heart and be the best person I can be.

I enjoyed reading your thoughtful post.
I think you left out half the equation though.

It's more like a 25-25-25-25 deal:

Live life as if there is a God and be right.
Live life as if there isn't a God and be wrong.
Live life as if there is a God and be wrong.
Live life as if there isn't a God and be right.

 

[Anguille]

If there are no animals in heaven you couldn't force me to go there ... ever.

Well, people are animals even if they are your least favorite kind.

 

[random3434]

Here's how I feel.

I just have faith. I always have. I have through the deaths of my sister, brother, father, friends. Through hardships and good times. It's something that is just "there." I'm not as talented writing how I feel like some others on here, because explaining faith is kind of like my daughter asking me yesterday what nothing looks like. It just is. I accept others beliefs, and don't try to shove my religion down others throats. I just try to live by example, though many times I fail.


I'm sure that didn't mean anything, but I had to say it!


Carry on!

 

[tigerbob]

And not just Christians.

Can you answer any or all of these questions for non-believers? And be prepared if you answer, to defend your answer. Who knows? Maybe you'll just make a believer outta somebody.

If I decide to believe in Jesus Christ, or Mohammed, or whomever, just so I don't go to Hell and go to Heaven (or Paradise or wherever) when I die, then I don't really believe do I? So then why would I choose to believe? How do I choose to believe?

What makes your religion so special that you know its the right one out of all the others out there? How do you know?

Why do you believe?

Explain faith.

It's not an active choice, in my case. It's something you either do of don't. I do. Why? I have no idea. If I try to rationalize it, maybe because I want to think that the spirit of my parents still exists somewhere, and it's somewhere good. I believe that following the teachings of Jesus makes me a better person, more compassionate, less judgmental, more willing to forgive the failings of others and recognize the failings in me.

I wouldn't say I'm a classic Christian. I don't necessarily believe everything that is in the bible, because it was written by man and men see things the way they want to, plus of course the Bible is largely a political book, decided by a bunch of guys in the 3rd century, with a lot left out. But I believe I should love God above all others and that I should do unto others as I'd have them do unto me. I'm not saying I do that all the time, but I do try to and if I don't I regret it.

I turned away from God for many years after my father died. Then about 8 years ago my daughter disappeared in a park. I couldn't find her anywhere. I was beside myself with worry. About a dozen people who I'd never met before fanned out and looked for her. Eventually (after nearly an hour) a 10 year old kid on a bike found her and brought her back to me. I grabbed her and hugged her, closing my eyes and just saying "Thank you, thank you" to nobody in particular. When I opened my eyes, a guy from the church I went to (mainly because my wife enjoyed going to church - I was ambivalent) was standing in front of me, literally about 2 feet away, looking directly at me. His name was Bishop Hugh Montefiore. He said "Is everything alright now?" That's the moment I rediscovered my faith, and that's how I am explaining it to you. It doesn't matter if it doesn't make sense to you. It makes sense to me.

 

[KittenKoder]

If there are no animals in heaven you couldn't force me to go there ... ever.

Well, people are animals even if they are your least favorite kind.

Bah! You got me ...

.. oooh, just thought of something based on that though, so if animals are not allowed in heaven then people wouldn't be there anyway.

 

[tigerbob]

God hates you. Burn in hell, you miserable fuck.

Actually, God loves everyone. Not sure you get the hate thing from.